325 réponses à ce sujet

[Jaison1986]

At first I didn't mind it but since they've given a middle finger to all the other religions in the game, we might as take a shot at Andrastarians next. Smug humans in Thedas need to be put in their place next.

 

I bet Andraste is either:

a ) A blood mage

b ) Dumat reborn (The first blight ended the same year Andraste was born)

c )  Mythal before she went into Flemeth.

 

These are my favourite theories. Though, I'm not sure Mythal would ever want to trigger another religion, considering the old one got her killed. But she could still be involved, considering it was her that created the dark ritual, and if Andraste was an old god child, Mythal would surely be involved with that. Not to mention those visions from Andraste sound pretty similar to what happens with Kieran. Who hear voices and have dreams, to wich allow him to learn things other people would never know about.

 

Besides, there is an mosaic of mythal in the temple of sacred ashes. Another hint there.

[rx00]

The DA religions are just completely annoying and 100% a figment of the uneducated collective imaginations of Thedas's dumbest occupants, Why can't we role play a complete tear down and dismantling of them in game once and for all.

 

What,you expected more from medieval style religion?

 

 

Actually, we could. If by chance, we ever learn the truth about Andraste, we could understand how real the maker is. After all, people only believe in the maker because of what Andraste preached. If we learn the truth about her, we would learn the truth about the maker.

 

The point is, a religion based on an all-mighty God is kinda invincible no matter how hard the opposite evidences are. Because that God is all-mighty, so by believers' definition, it's beyond any mortal evidence, thus it's "always real and anything against that are false evidences".

 

If you want a hint, just look at how Christianity or Islam works through out our history. 

[Almostfaceman]

...Bioware has been showing in turn each current religion in Thedas other than Andrastianism (pseudo-Christianity/Judaism/Islam) to be false, while not delving much into the truth of that religion?

 

In each dlc a major religion is explained - the avvar gods are spirits, the Dwarven god(s) are giant rock monsters, the Elven gods are mages...

 

The only religion that seems to be left as possibly something beyond the world as it is are the old gods and Andrastianism, and pretty much no-one worships old gods any more, and it's implied they were just dragons of some sort.

 

Add to this that Bioware (well, David Gaider, I supposed he's no longer on the DA team) has stated that they'll never confirm or deny the Maker's existence and it reeks of them being afraid to challenge monotheistic church-based religion, really.

 

I'm not sure. I might be reading too much into it, I'm just interested to see if anyone shares my suspicion/concern.

 

I'll wait to judge what they do with the Chantry when the Dragon Age series is complete. The Chantry itself annoys me, but not because of its beliefs but rather in how it's being practiced - and there's change in the wind for that considering a new Southern Divine. 

[Sah291]

...Bioware has been showing in turn each current religion in Thedas other than Andrastianism (pseudo-Christianity/Judaism/Islam) to be false, while not delving much into the truth of that religion?
 
In each dlc a major religion is explained - the avvar gods are spirits, the Dwarven god(s) are giant rock monsters, the Elven gods are mages...
 
The only religion that seems to be left as possibly something beyond the world as it is are the old gods and Andrastianism, and pretty much no-one worships old gods any more, and it's implied they were just dragons of some sort.
 
Add to this that Bioware (well, David Gaider, I supposed he's no longer on the DA team) has stated that they'll never confirm or deny the Maker's existence and it reeks of them being afraid to challenge monotheistic church-based religion, really.
 
I'm not sure. I might be reading too much into it, I'm just interested to see if anyone shares my suspicion/concern.

It's what you choose to see in it, I guess. I do see a lot of monotheistic themes yeah...but also a lot of themes about magick and mysticism. I don't find it suspicious/disturbing. Only that it seems like they want to engage the audience to think more about such things, and that these are topics the devs find appealing to explore in their work.

[Illegitimus]

Only the Dalish religion is proven to not be gods. 

 

Proven?  Pray tell, how was it proven?  Because Solas, their enemy, does not respect them and says they were once mortal?  How does that prove anything?  The entities known as the elven gods were immortal beings of vast supernatural power who were worshipped by large followings.

 

What do you think a god is?  

[robertthebard]

Proven?  Pray tell, how was it proven?  Because Solas, their enemy, does not respect them and says they were once mortal?  How does that prove anything?  The entities known as the elven gods were immortal beings of vast supernatural power who were worshipped by large followings.
 
What do you think a god is?

So Gods can be trapped by mortals? Because they were trapped by Solas, and he claims to not be a god. Every time he refers to them in Trespasser it's "False Gods". By definition, this means that they weren't Gods at all, just really powerful people that were, as all Elves were at the time, immortal. Taking your definition to the logical conclusion, any mage in that society would have been a god, since they meet all of your requirements.

[QueenCrow]

...Bioware has been showing in turn each current religion in Thedas other than Andrastianism (pseudo-Christianity/Judaism/Islam) to be false

 

This is a truly great idea for discussion and I can certainly see where you're coming from.  You make a good point.

 

Unless I've really misunderstood the revelations thus far about Andraste, she was a real person, a physical being who ate, crapped, screwed and could die just like the rest of us (pardon my pre-caffeine crudity) and had special powers or abilities (attributed to the Maker's favor), and was a mage.  Does that mean the Andrastean religion is false? 

 

I don't feel anything was revealed about the Elvhen mages who were real people, had special powers, are prayed to now, that hasn't been revealed about Andrasteanism.  Except perhaps that the Evanuris had slaves and some of them were all kinds of "lakes of blood" brutal.  That's kind of naughty, in my opinion.  But I guess even Andraste was responsible for her fair share of blood.

[The Baconer]

Whether the Maker truly exists or not is, quite honestly, immaterial. What's important is that it probably isn't what the faithful think it is.

[Illegitimus]

So Gods can be trapped by mortals? Because they were trapped by Solas, and he claims to not be a god. 

 

<sigh>  Have you read NO Greek mythology?  Never read the story where Sisyphus entraps Thanatos...or was it Hades?  Never read the story of Typhon, who, though not a god was as powerful as all of the gods put together?  And although Solas rejects being called a god, he is manifestly not a mortal.  

[actionhero112]

Not every game with religion in it has to challenge monotheism. Especially considering most of the world has a singular worship theme with minor deities. 

 

Something tells me that Gaider isn't going to allow the andrastian theocracy to escape unscathed from this however. 

 

Patience. 

[Ashagar]

Actually, we could. If by chance, we ever learn the truth about Andraste, we could understand how real the maker is. After all, people only believe in the maker because of what Andraste preached. If we learn the truth about her, we would learn the truth about the maker.

 

As noted before Maker belief predates Andreste as it was praticed by the ancient Northern Neromenian tribes and the later old god worshiping Tevinter Imperium still honored him with a Festival and belived he created the world. Any revelations about andreste would be more revelations about her and the newer verisions of maker worship shaped by her preaching than about the maker itself.

[Illegitimus]

Not every game with religion in it has to challenge monotheism. Especially considering most of the world has a singular worship theme with minor deities. 

 

Something tells me that Gaider isn't going to allow the andrastian theocracy to escape unscathed from this however. 

 

Patience. 

 

We've already been told multiple times that the Chantry teaches things that aren't true and deliberately suppresses mportant things that are.  Which really makes the original post off base.  We're never going to meet the actual Maker and find out that he's something different of course because the "actual Maker" is purely hypothetical.  

[Cobra's_back]

Actually, we could. If by chance, we ever learn the truth about Andraste, we could understand how real the maker is. After all, people only believe in the maker because of what Andraste preached. If we learn the truth about her, we would learn the truth about the maker.

 

That would prove the Chantry is incorrect and they probably are. However, it doesn't prove or disprove a maker exist. The Chantry is NOT all knowing. No doubt there are many mysteries they have no clue about and many more to still unravel. 

[Cobra's_back]

They won't confirm or Deny the Maker's existence because of it's similarity to God. They don't want to deal that nest of vipers. Yet if you examine what they are doing, is challenging people to question things. To look at how easy it is for someone to become more than they are, even eventually remembered as a God. Aside from the elvhen "Gods" you now have the Herald of Andraste. How do you think your Inky will be remembered in a few hundred years? People thought Thor existed for thousands of years. I've heard it said that he was worshiped longer than Jesus has been. I've never looked that up, but it still makes the point. Whatever the masses believe, is what is "correct".

 

 

Is that what you think they are doing? Andraste doesn't sound like Christ at all. Why do you compare the two? She is exactly like Joan of Arc or don't you see this?

 

She had an army, got caught, burned at the stake. very political figure.

 

How was this like Christ, and not like Joan of Arc?

 

Why do people assume Bioware is targeting a given religion?

[robertthebard]

<sigh>  Have you read NO Greek mythology?  Never read the story where Sisyphus entraps Thanatos...or was it Hades?  Never read the story of Typhon, who, though not a god was as powerful as all of the gods put together?  And although Solas rejects being called a god, he is manifestly not a mortal.

I surely have. What I have also done, however, is played all three Dragon Age games, and Trespasser, in which everything I thought I learned about the Elven Pantheon was demonstrated to be more a case of "sufficiently advanced technology" than "I'm a God, watch me turn water to wine, and feed 10,000 people with one loaf of bread a single fish".

[Illegitimus]

Is that what you think they are doing? Andraste doesn't sound like Christ at all. Why do you compare the two? She is exactly like Joan of Arc or don't you see this?

 

She had an army, got caught, burned at the stake. very political figure.

 

How was this like Christ, and not like Joan of Arc?

 

 

She's like Christ in that she started a whole new religion that decided to shove her into a familial relationship with their god.  

[BloodyTalon]

Given where the next game is heading is the land of the black divine and where the choosen one died, think we will be getting truth on what she really was and who might have been talking to her.

They just haven't gotten around  to it yet

[diaspora2k5]

Flemeth/ Mythal helps heroes over time right? Back then she could have been assisting Maferath.

[Cobra's_back]

She's like Christ in that she started a whole new religion that decided to shove her into a familial relationship with their god.  

 

Didn't Joan of Arc talked god? Jesus didn't fight a war. Wasn't he the guy that stated give to "Caesar what is Caesar" and "turn the other cheek". I'm completely not seeing the similarities. 

[Illegitimus]

Didn't Joan of Arc talked god? Jesus didn't fight a war. Wasn't he the guy that stated give to "Caesar what is Caesar" and "turn the other cheek". I'm completely not seeing the similarities. 

 

Since I just told you what the points of similarity are, clearly you don't want to.  

[Cobra's_back]

She's like Christ in that she started a whole new religion that decided to shove her into a familial relationship with their god.  

 

Muhammad is the central prophet of the Islamic faith. So this guy started a religion as well. Could it be that the writers really haven't targeted any religion? Let's not forget Christianity is not the only religion that ever existed.

 

I see them as just being creative. That is the goal of high fantasy. 

[BloodyTalon]

Muhammad is the central prophet of the Islamic faith. So this guy started a religion as well. Could it be that the writers really haven't targeted any religion? Let's not forget Christianity is not the only religion that ever existed.

 

I see them as just being creative. That is the goal of high fantasy. 

And in true high fantasy style you probbly could make a compare to any rl faith and relegion that has every existed to various degrees, even the elven god's being real people have some comparsion to certian faiths irl and how some cultures reguarded their leaders who did good things or super bad things.

Could go on but you right high fantasy does often mirror things irl to some degrees, just becomes more creative

[RoughTumble]

OP has a point for Inquisition.  In Origins dwarves started out with Orzamar, elves with clan or alienage and human nobles with a castle etc.  In Inquisition it doesn't matter if you're human, dwarf, elf, or qunari.  Everybody is Herald of Andraste and if the inquisition still exists at the end it's in an Andrastean Divine's hands.  Yeah I think it's weird too.

[Illegitimus]

Muhammad is the central prophet of the Islamic faith. So this guy started a religion as well. 

 

But was never martyred only to be promoted to God's son in law or something and the religion he founded doesn't have a multi-layered bureaucracy modeled on an imperial government and led by an elected-for-life "supreme priest" who presides over an officially celibate clergy plus an order or two of holy knights in plate armour.  They aren't being _that_ creative with the Chantry.  

[BloodyTalon]

But was never martyred only to be promoted to God's son in law or something and the religion he founded doesn't have a multi-layered bureaucracy modeled on an imperial government and led by an elected-for-life "supreme priest" who presides over an officially celibate clergy plus an order or two of holy knights in plate armour.  They aren't being _that_ creative with the Chantry.  

One sect of that faith does have high or superme priests, or experts on the faith every heard the title ayatollah