150 réponses à ce sujet

[daveliam]

I think there has been a lot of overreaction to Krem from both sides.

 

On the one hand you had the people that were squeeing over him and saying what an amazing character he was, despite being a walking codex entry with practically no character development, and having a very minor role that didn't extent beyond a couple stories about Bull & the Chargers, and Tevinter/Qunari attitudes towards gender identity.

 

On the other hand you had the people hating the character and saying how awful he was, despite being a very minor walking codex entry that wasn't in game long enough, or developed enough, to truly earned such hate. 

 

In both cases, I doubt there would have been much of a reaction in either direction if he didn't identify as trans. 

 

Chalk me down for a 'Meh.' 

 

Agreed 100%.  Personally, I think Krem is totally overrated on both accounts.  He really is kind of forgettable as an NPC.  But he's also far from the "trans issues being shoved down throat!!!!!" character that his detractors make him out to be too.  I totally agree with the meh.

[Han Shot First]

Agreed 100%.  Personally, I think Krem is totally overrated on both accounts.  He really is kind of forgettable as an NPC.  But he's also far from the "trans issues being shoved down throat!!!!!" character that his detractors make him out to be too.  I totally agree with the meh.

 

I think Bioware kind of goofed in not opting to use Maevaris instead. I haven't read much of the DA books/comics or what have you, so I'm not really familiar with her outside of her brief mention in DA:I, but from what I gather from reading other peoples posts, it seems she was much better developed than Krem was.

 

Although to be fair to the writers, we're probably getting Maevaris as a squadmate in DA4, and that might be why she didn't appear in DA:I.

[Killdren88]

Well considering it will give something for the board to whine about, sure.

[Xaijin]

If there's anything I don't like, its a character who contributes nothing but is meant to seem important. Krem didn't really do much but people go on that they're an important character. . .they aren't. At all.

S/he's like that templar lady who sorta stands around. . .I mean- who is she anyways? Does she even -do- anything? I don't even remember our blacksmith's name let alone the bartender lady, the apothecary (I never even -went- to him once during my playthrough), Not to mention your former staff (Quartermaster, Bartender, ETC) then got replaced and made insignificant  early on as well. They were made to seem semi important if you interacted with them, but then they weren't. At all. Just background flavor.

Imagine if Joker was just the pilot and not a fleshed out character who we got to truly interact with. That's about what Krem and all those other characters were to the Inquisitor.

So if Bioware includes some other character like Krem or any of these characters? Make them useful or significant in some way other than being a number.

You forgot the part where all your conversation responses make you sound AT BEST like an ignorant callous idiot, as if the concept of a person struggling with body dysmorphia/dysphoria in a world where something like Blood ****** Magic is testing the bounds of your morality.

Plz go, Mr. Gaider, plz go.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I think Bioware kind of goofed in not opting to use Maevaris instead. I haven't read much of the DA books/comics or what have you, so I'm not really familiar with her outside of her brief mention in DA:I, but from what I gather from reading other peoples posts, it seems she was much better developed than Krem was.

 

Although to be fair to the writers, we're probably getting Maevaris as a squadmate in DA4, and that might be why she didn't appear in DA:I.

I seem to remember David Gaider wanting to bring Mae into Dragon Age: Inquisition, but there was a conflict of time or something. 

[FKA_Servo]

Agreed 100%.  Personally, I think Krem is totally overrated on both accounts.  He really is kind of forgettable as an NPC.  But he's also far from the "trans issues being shoved down throat!!!!!" character that his detractors make him out to be too.  I totally agree with the meh.

 

On the other hand, it sort of confirms all my suspicions that the slightest acknowledgement of such a character (among other issues) is enough to send a certain type of idiot into a screaming froth.

 

I think Bioware kind of goofed in not opting to use Maevaris instead. I haven't read much of the DA books/comics or what have you, so I'm not really familiar with her outside of her brief mention in DA:I, but from what I gather from reading other peoples posts, it seems she was much better developed than Krem was.

 

Although to be fair to the writers, we're probably getting Maevaris as a squadmate in DA4, and that might be why she didn't appear in DA:I.

 

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the game was just too far along to get her in there other than that little war table mention. Which is no big deal, really. However, if we head to Tevinter and Maevaris is not a companion, it will be a bloody crime.

[shodiswe]

Cant't even remember Krem from DA:I..... Maybe I got him killed somehow? oh... Maybe Krem was the one who was a Messenger from Bull's people? But letting that ship get destroyed made them exile him? and then I got no more Krem? Was that the Krem?

Didn't really bother me one way or another, the amount of interaction with the merc band was fairly limited aswell. But it was a welcome addition imo. Less wouldn't have been better.

[Elhanan]

Considering that I did not know that there was anything special about Krem until my second campaign sort of suggests that some planning went into the design, as well as not pushed on the Players as some would lead us to believe. And as I benched the Iron Bull, I actually received more conversation from Krem, as well as War Table missions.

Nothing much to see here....

[shodiswe]

Considering that I did not know that there was anything special about Krem until my second campaign sort of suggests that some planning went into the design, as well as not pushed on the Players as some would lead us to believe. And as I benched the Iron Bull, I actually received more conversation from Krem, as well as War Table missions.

Nothing much to see here....

I took the Bull on a few side missions just to progress him, nothing major. And ofcourse things he seemed to be interested in.
First concern, functional team, second concern, keeping the crew happy. I threw them a bone when I thoguht I could afford it or make it happen somehow.

That meant a lot of micromanagement and switchins switchouts.

[pdusen]

When you say Krem-like, do you mean a character who happens to be transgender but it has no impact on anything because seriously what's the big deal?

Well, we probably will, yeah.

[Youknow]

I don't know. I didn't see anything particularly wrong with Krem. He was just there. I wish they had done more with him though, it did annoy me to have a character that is a partner to one of the secondary party members and he didn't have so little as a sidequest for the character. Sure, there were the table errands, but that's not the same thing. Krem was clearly a step above characters like Dalish and the like, so I felt that he could have used a bit more development. Especially considering the fact that this character can die, so there's no reason not to go ham with them before they kick the bucket. It'd make saving the Chargers feel a bit more personal here, because I can pretty much guarantee that most people that saved them probably did it for The Iron Bull's sake and not... The actual characters that could potentially die there as there isn't much to save about them. They have names, and that's about it. 

 

As for Andromeda, maybe I'm crazy, but I feel that it might be odd to even have any characters in the game that don't want to reproduce. The only people I'd select would basically be the genetic titans of my race and that when prompted about reproduction only had the phrases "absolutely," "when?" and "where?" Anything else doesn't deserve to go to Andromeda. 

[shodiswe]

When you say Krem-like, do you mean a character who happens to be transgender but it has no impact on anything because seriously what's the big deal?

Well, we probably will, yeah.

Transgender? seem to recall that, was that one of Bulls mercenary band members? or was it the spymastermessenger? I'm not that good with names. All I needed to know was, "oh, it's that "guy"", whatever his name was. startign to forget even worse at this Point I'm sure.

EDIT: goggled and the Pictures tells me "he" was leading Bulls Little band of mercs. Mystery solved. Think they were ok. Didn't care about transgender or whatever as long as they did their job. Hard not to appreciate people prepared to die in your service I liked the mercband enough to let that Little boat blow up and upset those stubborn bull people, whom I found somewhat untrust worthy and mostly struck me as, helpful as long as it suited them and didn't cost them anything.

[ItFactorScott]

My only issue with Krem is his inability to sit down.

[Former_Fiend]

I do not think you are wrong, unfortunately.

 

The only extent to which I think I might be wrong is that some of these individuals may be using a certain degree of hyperbole in their opinions because that's the age we live in where you have to overstate to get a point across. I'm certainly guilty of that at times.

 

At any rate, people are entitled to whatever beliefs and opinions they want. Even the bigoted ones, so long as they don't actively harm anyone. Just call it what it is.

[LinksOcarina]

My only issue with Krem is his inability to sit down.

 

Krem did like standing a lot...

[Youknow]

My only issue with Krem is his inability to sit down.

So it wasn't just mine that he did that? Thank god. I can't even begin to tell you how much that drove me insane. 

[Former_Fiend]

Eh, it's a Bioware game. I'm used to people standing all the time.

[JoltDealer]

I think Bioware kind of goofed in not opting to use Maevaris instead. I haven't read much of the DA books/comics or what have you, so I'm not really familiar with her outside of her brief mention in DA:I, but from what I gather from reading other peoples posts, it seems she was much better developed than Krem was.

 

Although to be fair to the writers, we're probably getting Maevaris as a squadmate in DA4, and that might be why she didn't appear in DA:I.

 

Agreed.  Most of my feelings towards Krem come from the fact that he was a missed opportunity.  She was a token transgender character.  Maevaris was not.

 

For the sake of example, imagine if Vivienne had turned out to be man living as a woman.  One of the most prominent people of Orlais -- a symbol of power, ambition, beauty, and more -- was revealed to be transgender.  The reveal would have been told through a subtle picture of a young man in Circle Robes on Duke Bastien's nightstand.  Then, you leave it to the player to think about it all without spoon-feeding any of it.

 

Suddenly, certain aspects of Vivienne's character make more sense.  It would be the driving force behind her ambition, as a way of spiting the bigots who don't approve.  Her undying love for Bastien would also make sense, since he loved her regardless.  She would be eternally grateful because by his loving her, she learned to love and fully embrace herself.  None of it would be over-emphasized.  It would just be subtly told through a picture on his nightstand and maybe a short dialogue option.

 

Any dialogue options having to do with Krem being transgender boil down to, "You know that you're not actually a man, right?"  "Why would you be transgender?"  "Is everyone else in the Chargers okay with you being transgender?"  "Isn't it weird being transgender?"

[Former_Fiend]

I seem to remember David Gaider wanting to bring Mae into Dragon Age: Inquisition, but there was a conflict of time or something. 

 

I'm given to understand that she was created too late in the game's development to be properly included.

[Queen Skadi]

I have no idea who Mae is, anyone care to enlighten me?

[Lady Artifice]

Mae fits better in a game set in Tevinter anyway, though I like her better in an advisory role than as a companion combatant. I could see her being something akin to the next Josephine.

 

On the other hand, it sort of confirms all my suspicions that the slightest acknowledgement of such a character (among other issues) is enough to send a certain type of idiot into a screaming froth.

 

Or into a seething, quiet froth. The only thing I find particularly annoying about these threads is the predictable disingenuousness. People who claim they don't like "shoehorned" inclusiveness, because they think that the only reason a writer could possibly want to include such a character is for inclusiveness' own sake. 

 

Whether their issue is genuinely about whether or not a character is shoehorned or not (in at least a few cases, I'm betting it's not), they sidesteps the question by assuring themselves that it must be shoehorned, because it's inclusiveness and of course it is. 

[Lady Artifice]

I have no idea who Mae is, anyone care to enlighten me?

 

Maevaris Tilani. Transexual Tevinter Magister who married into Varric's family and is inclined to both stand against the most inflammatory of Tevinter excesses (slavery) and embody the list likable of them (glamour, flamboyance). She's modeled loosely after Mae West. 

 

She starred in the Dragon Age comics, where we learned she's widowed. The theory is that she'll be a companion in the next installment. 

 

[Former_Fiend]

There are also standing bets on whether or not she'll be romanceable. Main argument against it seems to be widow fatigue over general doubts as to whether or not Bioware is ready to take that step and have a transexual LI.

[wright1978]

Not a particular fan of such tokenism.
Probably wading into uncertain waters but wouldn't an advanced medical future render such an individual unrecognisable?

[Ahglock]

Mae fits better in a game set in Tevinter anyway, though I like her better in an advisory role than as a companion combatant. I could see her being something akin to the next Josephine.

 

 

Or into a seething, quiet froth. The only thing I find particularly annoying about these threads is the predictable disingenuousness. People who claim they don't like "shoehorned" inclusiveness, because they think that the only reason a writer could possibly want to include such a character is for inclusiveness' own sake. 

 

Whether their issue is genuinely about whether or not a character is shoehorned or not (in at least a few cases, I'm betting it's not), they sidesteps the question by assuring themselves that it must be shoehorned, because it's inclusiveness and of course it is. 

 

For me the distinction has always been, is the character there to preach a view point to me or just in the story.  I hate when people preach to me even the people I'd normally agree with.  I haven't seen that in Bioware much so I don't care, and I'm not sure why being inclusive is a bad thing even if it ends up being a token character. 

 

On the other hand it does seem like a lot of writers in various media throw stuff in to make a point based on what is trending on twitter, see NBC cares about your issues we added a X character, talked about Y issue.  Well unless you are Latino or Asian the forgotten minorities, unless its a episode on drug dealers or other negative stereotype. Its just laziness not inclusiveness, come up with something creative heck no, lets just write about what we think is popular right now.