169 réponses à ce sujet

[Lady Artifice]

No one...suggested that wanting attractive female characters is misogynistic. It's not, any more than hoping for attractive male characters is misandry. 

[BabyPuncher]

No one...suggested that wanting attractive female characters is misogynistic. It's not, any more than hoping for attractive male characters is misandry. 

 

Of course, we have to recognize the inevitable consequences of such a thing. As long as we're thinking about this sort of topic, anyway.

 

All the people that are excluded and marginalized and yadda yadda yadda because they don't or outright can't meet the desired ideals. All the frustration and misery born of that.

[Lady Artifice]

Of course, we have to recognize the inevitable consequences of such a thing. As long as we're thinking about this sort of topic, anyway.

 

All the people that are excluded and marginalized and yadda yadda yadda because they don't or outright can't meet the desired ideals. All the frustration and misery born of that.

 

Do we, though? Do we really have to recognize them? I suggest we ignore them, and maybe they'll go away. 

[Seishoujyo]

But out of all those options only 2 of them were for straight males, one of them a Krogan woman, the other a human commonly mistaken for a Krogan woman, the rest are all reserved for gay men and straight women?

 

I would become a terrorist and bomb Bioware's HQ in Edmonton, or cry and buy The Witcher 3, I don't know I m still on the fence

[BabyPuncher]

Do we, though? Do we really have to recognize them? I suggest we ignore them, and maybe they'll go away. 

 

Funnily enough, that's precisely what I more or less advocate.

 

I'm not a sadist. I don't take any sort of gleeful satisfaction in saying transgendered people or obese people or unattractive people should not generally be in this sort of game. I have no interest in actively seeking them out and shouting in their faces just how unworthy they are.

 

I would much prefer these conversations just never come up. That characters are beautiful because beauty is a good thing, and that's all there is to it.

[CronoDragoon]

I'd play a straight woman or just play majestic noble stag male. No big deal.

[Lady Artifice]

Funnily enough, that's precisely what I more or less advocate.

 

I'm not a sadist. I don't take any sort of gleeful satisfaction in saying transgendered people or obese people or unattractive people should not generally be in this sort of game. I have no interest in actively seeking them out and shouting in their faces just how unworthy they are.

 

I would much prefer these conversations just never come up. That characters are beautiful because beauty is a good thing, and that's all there is to it.

 

No, there's a hell of a lot more to it, and considering you're the guy who constantly purports himself as the greatest authority on complexity and nuance this forum has, it just becomes weirder that you completely refuse to acknowledge that it exists in aesthetic tradition as well. 

[BabyPuncher]

What more to it is there?

[Lady Artifice]

What more to it is there?

 

Like a lot of girls my age, I had a crush on Orlando Bloom as a teenager. Now, as an adult, that's long past, and I would place the likes of Steve Buscemi, Christopher Walken, Stanley Tucci, and Lawrence Fishburne much higher on the scale of careers I would consider artistically valuable, despite not finding any of them very physically attractive. I believe that they've made films better for being in them, appearance and all. 

 

It is possible to both appreciate physical beauty, and not deem it somehow objectively essential to worthwhile story telling. Because it isn't. The best thing about our society developing past the childish beautiful = good mentality in storytelling is that we're weeding out mediocrity of substance like never before. Beautiful people still have an advantage in terms of how they're perceived, and that probably isn't going away ever, because we're genetically inclined to favor beauty (they've even found that parents statistically strap more beautiful toddlers into seat belts more securely than less beautiful ones). But, at least we're seeing more and more examples in media where beauty isn't treated as though it itself indicates goodness and ugliness as though it indicates wickedness. 

 

I could be simultaneously pleased by the idea that they might model a character after Ian Somerhalder and a character after say...Danny Trejo, because I can think of few things more boring and dreadful than a world of media where beauty is treated as an actual requirement and everyone is the same. As subtly nightmarish a concept as the dystopian society of the episode, Number 8 Looks Just Like You in The Twilight Zone, where everyone becomes beautiful...and consequently no one is. 

[BabyPuncher]

Like a lot of girls my age, I had a crush on Orlando Bloom as a teenager. Now, as an adult, that's long past, and I would place the likes of Steve Buscemi, Christopher Walken, Stanley Tucci, and Lawrence Fishburne much higher on the scale of careers I would consider artistically valuable, despite not finding any of them very physically attractive. I believe that they've made films better for being in them, appearance and all. 

 

It is possible to both appreciate physical beauty, and not deem it somehow objectively essential to worthwhile story telling. Because it isn't. The best thing about our society developing past the childish beautiful = good mentality in storytelling is that we're weeding out mediocrity of substance like never before. Beautiful people still have an advantage in terms of how they're perceived, and that probably isn't going away ever, because we're genetically inclined to favor beauty (they've even found that parents statistically strap more beautiful toddlers into seat belts more securely than less beautiful ones). But, at least we're seeing more and more examples in media where beauty isn't treated as though it itself indicates goodness and ugliness as though it indicates wickedness. 

 

I could be simultaneously pleased by the idea that they might model a character after Ian Somerhalder and a character after say...Danny Trejo, because I can think of few things more boring and dreadful than a world of media where beauty is treated as an actual requirement. As subtly nightmarish a concept as the dystopian society of the Twilight Zone episode, Number 8 Looks Just Like You, where everyone becomes beautiful...and consequently no one is. 

 

Firstly, I don't recall ever remotely suggesting that beauty is indicative of moral goodness or, conversely, that ugliness is indicative of any sort of moral failing. In fact, my comments about transgender people and the like have repeatedly hammered that they're innocent recipients of a sucky dice roll from nature.

 

Secondly, I fail to see how any of this does much to challenge my point. Never did I say that beauty is the only quality and that therefore anyone who isn't beautiful is worthless and all beautiful people are superior to all ugly people. It's one quality among many. It does not mean, nor should it mean that, for example, that the clueless bimbo should be hired instead of the plain but highly competent woman. I said that beauty is a good thing. Nothing more. Nothing less.

 

Is ugliness something I think should generally be left out of the heroic stories BioWare creates? It is. But it's the same for most human failings. I also don't think central characters should be weak, or whiny, or cowardly, or stupid, or trivial, or materialistic, or any number of things that are common in 'real' people. These are supposed to be heroic characters, enunciating the best of what a human can be.

[Lady Artifice]

Firstly, I don't recall ever remotely suggesting that beauty is indicative of moral goodness or, conversely, that ugliness is indicative of any sort of moral failing. In fact, my comments and transgender people and the like have repeatedly hammered that they're innocent recipients of a sucky dice roll from nature.

 

Secondly, I fail to see how any of this does much to challenge my point. Never did I say that beauty is the only quality and that therefore anyone who isn't beautiful is worthless and all beautiful people are superior to all ugly people. It's one quality among many. It does not mean, nor should it mean that, for example, that the clueless bimbo should be hired instead of the plain but highly competent woman. I said that beauty is a good thing. Nothing more. Nothing less.

 

Is ugliness something I think should generally be left out of the heroic stories BioWare creates? It is. But it's the same for most human failings. I also don't think central characters should be weak, or whiny, or cowardly, or stupid, or trivial, or materialistic, or any number of things that are common in 'real' people. These are supposed to be heroic characters, enunciating the best of what a human can be.

 

Boo! Perfect is boring.

[KaiserShep]

Firstly, I don't recall ever remotely suggesting that beauty is indicative of moral goodness or, conversely, that ugliness is indicative of any sort of moral failing. In fact, my comments about transgender people and the like have repeatedly hammered that they're innocent recipients of a sucky dice roll from nature.
 
Secondly, I fail to see how any of this does much to challenge my point. Never did I say that beauty is the only quality and that therefore anyone who isn't beautiful is worthless and all beautiful people are superior to all ugly people. It's one quality among many. It does not mean, nor should it mean that, for example, that the clueless bimbo should be hired instead of the plain but highly competent woman. I said that beauty is a good thing. Nothing more. Nothing less.
 
Is ugliness something I think should generally be left out of the heroic stories BioWare creates? It is. But it's the same for most human failings. I also don't think central characters should be weak, or whiny, or cowardly, or stupid, or trivial, or materialistic, or any number of things that are common in 'real' people. These are supposed to be heroic characters, enunciating the best of what a human can be.

I've brought this character before, but what about Upham from Saving Private Ryan? His being weaker and more outwardly afraid and even cowardly made his growth as a character in the end more meaningful. I grew to really like this character because he was sort of a reflection of the loss of innocence against the scary backdrop of warfare.

[Malleficae]

Boo! Perfect is boring.

 

Unless it's me! I'm not boring.

 

Perhaps I should be 8th romance option? Who knows, who knows?!

 

[ebevan91]

I probably wouldn't care about the number of options but I would hate for the target audience to get the short end of the stick like in DA:I.

[FKA_Servo]

I probably wouldn't care about the number of options but I would hate for the target audience to get the short end of the stick like in DA:I.

 

Yeah, it's really annoying that the mythical "target" audience had the same number of options they had in every other game except the Mass Effect series, where this "target" audience had even more.

[Lady Artifice]

I've brought this character before, but what about Upham from Saving Private Ryan? His being weaker and more outwardly afraid and even cowardly made his growth as a character in the end more meaningful. I grew to really like this character because he was sort of a reflection of the loss of innocence against the scary backdrop of warfare.

 

Good example. I've never despised a non antagonist character more than I despised him in that moment on the stairs, and yet the moment when he shot Steamboat Willie managed to be a satisfying conclusion to his story. 

[SardaukarElite]

Boo! Perfect is boring.

 

What if they're practically perfect, in every way?

[The Hierophant]

Boo! Perfect is boring.

 

 

[Lady Artifice]

What if they're practically perfect, in every way?

 

So just like you, you mean? That's ok, then. 

 

-Snip-

 

 

Forgive my ignorance, but who the hell is that? 

[The Hierophant]

 

Forgive my ignorance, but who the hell is that? 

Manu Bennett

[Former_Fiend]

Manu is awesome, but I wouldn't call him perfect. Bit of a drinking problem. Got him arrested a couple days ago for assault.

[The Hierophant]

Manu is awesome, but I wouldn't call him perfect. Bit of a drinking problem. Got him arrested a couple days ago for assault.

Lol nah, i'm not using him as an example as perfect. Only posting what i imagined to be babypuncher's reaction to Artifice's post.

[Former_Fiend]

Ah, gotcha.

[Lady Artifice]

Nothing's devolved, this is just the internet. It's always been like this.