61 réponses à ce sujet

[Mushashi7]

In the final scene you meet your long lost friend, Mr. Solas him self.

You want to help him because you think he is a smart guy with some insight and a heart.

During this conversation you agree with him. This world has to end so that the elves can be free.
As an elven female mage I can relate to that. Humans destroy everything they touch anyway.

So, I answer him we pure the world as we know it down the drain and start on a clean install.

And then I got pissed!

No matter what I wasn't able to avoid saying: I'll come after you and kill you, Solas.

Why the h*ll even leave us the option if you can't persue it? The end was preconstructed and decided anyway. What a load of cr*p!

It wiped away the fun for me completely. ONCE again the Mass Effect ending with no choice on the outcome.

BAH!

[riverbanks]

For the record, even if you're an elf, you're not the extra special kind of elf Solas wants to bring back. Explore his dialogue options in this conversation, and he'll tell you upfront that he doesn't see you or the current elves as people either, or worth saving. You're worth using in order to get what he wants, as the epilogue slide shows, but not worth saving.

 

Your brand of elven supremacy is not what Solas has in mind; you and the elves of current Thedas are the same mortal trash as any human, dwarf or qunari to him, and you'll all be destroyed too when he brings his superior branch of ~elvhen~ back. By "joining" him in his cause, all you'd be doing would be helping him destroy you and your own people faster.

[Solas]

You CAN avoid saying omg i'll come and kill you solas. You are explicitly given the choice to say ill save you bro!.

[TobiTobsen]

Supporting Solas as an elf of the current generation must be a very special kind of self loathing... maybe a match made in Stockholm (or whatever the theodosian equivalent might be...)?

[dragondreamer]

Supporting Solas as an elf of the current generation must be a very special kind of self loathing... maybe a match made in Stockholm (or whatever the theodosian equivalent might be...)?

 

I could see it becoming a kind of doomsday cult among the elves. 

[Solas]

Operating on two assumptions for this post:

 

If Solas' plans will definitely result in the annihilation of modern elves*, and if the elves who are shown mysteriously leaving in the epilogue slide are modern elves who are going to join the Dread Wolf**, I see a few possibilities:

 

- He's deceiving them, either by lying or through omission - they're following him and his directions, but don't know that what they're actually helping to execute is a plan that will result in their deaths; ***

- They're under his sway somehow by means more.. arcane. As seen by him freezing Qunari with a blink, he seems to be incredibly powerful now.**** That and his Dreamer-esque powers.. consider the sway Feynriel seemed to have over Orlanna;

- As dragondreamer says, it's like a doomsday cult. There will be some modern elves who feel so downtrodden, in such despair at their lot in modern Thedas that they're willing to die to bring about (technically, restore) a future where elves can live freely in power and glory. And there will be some who are so angry and resentful at being shat on by other Thedosians that they want vengeance on the world (which they see as having unfairly and unjustly dealing them this hand) and the perpetrators of their oppression so badly that damn it all, if they'll die bringing that about then so be it.

 

* I think they likely will and it sure sounds ominous that way to me, however we aren't actually given concrete specifics on that situation one way or the other. Some people on Tumblr are debating whether or not it they actually will or not. For one thing even Solas himself in some of his lines doesn't seem to be 100% sure of what the ramifications going forward will be.. for another, his lines in the discussion scene at the end of the DLC are clearly written to be able to be taken in more than one way - the devs acknowledged such on Twitter, it's intentionally unclear.

** This is implied but not clear. I've also seen speculation that they're ancient elf sleeper agents who are going to rejoin the Dread Wolf, that the one they're going to join is actually a totally-not-really-dead-Mythal, and that they're Qunari sleeper agents returning north now that the time for the Qunari invasion of the South seems to have really begun.

*** In this regard he sees them as tools to be used, chess pieces to move around a board in pursuit of his goals (not taking pleasure in their demise in the same way as how you wouldn't take pleasure in dispatching a useful work-animal in pursuit of some necessary goal like sustaining your family through a harsh winter or something). And from their perspective, they haven't gone through the Dalish Culture Revelation Ringer like the Dalish Inquisitor. We don't know how widely such truths have been spread among Dalish Elves by the time of Trespasser's end. Likely most of these Dalish elves don't know the truth of what the past was like and about the real nature of their 'gods'. To them they'd only see a god from their religion walked out of legend into the world, it's not a stretch that some of the uninformed faithful might follow him, even if he is the Dread Wolf as opposed to one of the Creators. Some might do so out of fear.

**** Either he was that powerful all along and hid it because you can't keep up the simple apostate act when you're doing that stuff on the battlefield in front of Cassandra and everyone else, lol - or it's power he came into since doing over Flemythal, and/or power augmented simply by time (as in, he was weak when he awoke, but power has returned to him the longer he's been out of slumber).

[wright1978]

Annoyed me no end that i can't support his efforts. I'm forced to fight him or try and save him.

[Korva]

I think he'd stop short of magical mind-f*ckery. He vehemently refused to bind Cole, after all, and I think even modern-day non-people -- acceptable tools and colleratal damage though they are in his eyes -- should have at least the freedom of their minds and thoughts as far as he is concerned. That is something he truly seems believe in. If the foreshadowed redemption arc is supposed to not feel like a complete farce, he needs at least a few positive qualities.

[wright1978]

Supporting Solas as an elf of the current generation must be a very special kind of self loathing... maybe a match made in Stockholm (or whatever the theodosian equivalent might be...)?

 

Why if wardens can sacrifice themselves to stop the blight can't an elf be willing to sacrifice themselves as part of desire to restore world to its true state and elves to their true state.

[Solas]

I think he'd stop short of magical mind-f*ckery. He vehemently refused to bind Cole, after all, and I think even modern-day non-people -- acceptable tools and colleratal damage though they are in his eyes -- should have at least the freedom of their minds and thoughts as far as he is concerned. That is something he truly seems believe in. If the foreshadowed redemption arc is supposed to not feel like a complete farce, he needs at least a few positive qualities.

I agree he is vehemently against anything which impinges free will, freedom and freethought of any sort (see his feelings on the Qun, Tevinter slavery, ancient elven slavery, binding Cole, what the Wardens did to spirits at Adamant, etc etc), but he seems to need agents and forces going forward, and hypothetically if there was no other way to gain people for his cause...? Would he just let go of his plan/vision for the world because binding people to serve him is disgusting to him? 'Oh well lol the modern world can keep going on the way it is after all and so much for elven glory and reshaping reality, cause I don't like what I have to do to achieve it'.  It's a moot point though really because the scenario is toootally hypothetical, I don't expect that in actuality he'll have to resort to such to recruit followers (he's charismatic, he's a god to some, some elves have an ax to grind about Thedas, etc, everything else I suggested above) - the post was about just spitballing all potential ideas that I saw.

[Iakus]

I think he'd stop short of magical mind-f*ckery. He vehemently refused to bind Cole, after all, and I think even modern-day non-people -- acceptable tools and colleratal damage though they are in his eyes -- should have at least the freedom of their minds and thoughts as far as he is concerned. That is something he truly seems believe in. If the foreshadowed redemption arc is supposed to not feel like a complete farce, he needs at least a few positive qualities.

Yeah Solas is kinda like Imshael.  He likes making people "choose"

[TobiTobsen]

Why if wardens can sacrifice themselves to stop the blight can't an elf be willing to sacrifice themselves as part of desire to restore world to its true state and elves to their true state.

 

You're not restoring any elf to his true state. The current elves will be trampled into the dust, just as any other "unworthy" race, on Solas way to ancient elvhen glory.

[wright1978]

You're not restoring any elf to his true state. The current elves will be trampled into the dust, just as any other "unworthy" race, on Solas way to ancient elvhen glory.

 

Of course its restoring. New elves will be restored to their natural state rather than the corrupted state of the current veil affected elves.

[TobiTobsen]

Stockholm is siding with your captor; someone who's held you hostage or imprisoned you for a long while. Solas only woke a year before meeting the Inquisitor, and has amassed very recent followers, and the Inquisitor held all the shots while they knew each other. It can't be Stockholm since Solas hasn't been around long enough to amass that kind of... relationship.

 

Personally, I think elves who side with humans is closer to "Stockholm" since elves have lived under the heels of human for centuries. A thousand years of slavery under Tevinter, followed by a brief few centuries of reprieve after helping Andraste, followed by humans breaking their promise and taking back the elves second homeland, followed by 700 more years of subjugation and displacement.

 

While I don't support the end of the world either, I can't really blame most modern elves for not wanting to side with their centuries-long abusers and slavers (and dwarves who do business with their subjugaters and Qunari who just want to subjugate them too) over a newly revealed ancient elf who'll offer to restore their lost civilization and world, and give them the better life denied them under humans times beyond counting.

 

Solas is a living god or as god-like as you can get in Thedas. He's basically holding the entire dalish faithful captive. The guy could kill you with a blink, yet is rather friendly to you as long as you don't oppose his plan.

 

I bet we could argue rather extensivly about the point where "captivity" and "coercion" start in this case.

[riverbanks]

Of course its restoring. New elves will be restored to their natural state rather than the corrupted state of the current veil affected elves.

 

No, they will literally be destroyed. As in, killed. They will not be restored to an original "pure" state or awaken to ancient elvhen magicks asleep within their souls or whatever, they will die with the rest of the world and make room for the superior race. Go back to the last scene with Solas and ask him about it. Current-day elves are not his people, he has no intention of sparing them or ascending them into superior elvhenhood. He will destroy them, and you, like any other mortal race, to bring back something the current elves can never become.

[wright1978]

No, they will literally be destroyed. As in, killed. They will not be restored to an original "pure" state or awaken to ancient elvhen magicks asleep within their souls or whatever, they will die with the rest of the world and make room for the superior race. Go back to the last scene with Solas and ask him about it. Current-day elves are not his people, he has no intention of sparing them or ascending them into superior elvhenhood. He will destroy them, and you, like any other mortal race, to bring back something the current elves can never become.

 

Hence why i say new elves, not current elves in the restored world.

[Vit246]

Why would the modern elves be destroyed and not restored with their immortality and elven magicks and whatnot? It doesn't make sense to me.

[Korva]

I agree he is vehemently against anything which impinges free will, freedom and freethought of any sort (see his feelings on the Qun, Tevinter slavery, ancient elven slavery, binding Cole, what the Wardens did to spirits at Adamant, etc etc), but he seems to need agents and forces going forward, and hypothetically if there was no other way to gain people for his cause...?

 

I was pondering that too. It is not too hard to imagine that a guy with his mindset and with all his "reasons" and "justifications" to help deaden his conscience won't just cross the last line and make up a "reason" for that, too, if pressed. But, as I said ... he does badly need some positive traits if Bioware's pointed "you should totally vow to redeem him" hints are to make any sense.

 

It's a moot point though really because the scenario is toootally hypothetical, I don't expect that in actuality he'll have to resort to such to recruit followers (he's charismatic, he's a god to some, some elves have an ax to grind about Thedas, etc, everything else I suggested above) - the post was about just spitballing all potential ideas that I saw.

 

If we have learned anything, it's that he is an incredible liar and manipulator, yes. Even -- or especially? -- when it comes to lying to himself.

[Deanna]

I believe it gave you two options:

1: I'll stop you (even if it means killing him)
2: I'll redeem you (The inquisition will try to convince Solas to change his plan)

Also to echo some people here, modern elves of Thedas are no better in his eyes. They've forgotten who they are or don't care. He also believes the veil has cut off most peoples conscience connection to the fade (which is kinda true) to him everyone is tranquil.

Solas: "It was like walking through a world filled with tranquil."

My elf mage who romanced him: "We're not even people to you?"

He admits you have proven him wrong but its still not enough. All he cares about are the ANCIENT elves and the old ways.

[Nixou]

If we have learned anything, it's that he is an incredible liar and manipulator, yes. Even -- or especially? -- when it comes to lying to himself.

 

 

-Say my Name

-Fen'Harel

-You're goddamned right

[Deanna]

But what really annoys me is he seems to genuinely love Lavellan (if romanced) but yet even if romanced SHE isn't even worth saving.

[riverbanks]

Why would the modern elves be destroyed and not restored with their immortality and elven magicks and whatnot? It doesn't make sense to me.

 

Because that's the point. Solas doesn't care about elves, he cares about the ancient civillization that's disappeared and left him behind. He'll tell you over and over through the main campaign that he doesn't consider either city elves nor Dalish elves "his people" and that he doesn't much care what happens to either. His mission is not saving the current elves, or ascending them to dominate over other races, or building a new elven utopia for them where all elves are special and magical and talk to trees and dance naked under the moonlight - he wants to destroy this world entirely, eliminate all the mortal races he considers inferior, elves included, and bring back the old times of the pure elvhen master race he knew.

 

Solas is not your elven messiah who will fight for the people's rights and bring about justice for what elves have suffered throughout history. He's just a stranger in a strange land, so displaced in time that he looks at the current world with a bad case of nostalgia goggles and finds it "corrupted" even though his own time was pretty bad for any and everyone but the most powerful and in charge of everything too, and also so intoxicated by his own power that he decides that since this world isn't the way he remembers anyway, he has the authority to simply destroy everything and put things back where he wants them. Elves are not his goal, just pawns he'll use and throw away when the ~elvhen arise again.

[X Equestris]

Why would the modern elves be destroyed and not restored with their immortality and elven magicks and whatnot? It doesn't make sense to me.

If I'm remembering right, they probably wouldn't be able to handle the influx of magic. Modern elves have quite a few physical differences compared to the ancient ones,

[Solas]

I was pondering that too. It is not too hard to imagine that a guy with his mindset and with all his "reasons" and "justifications" to help deaden his conscience won't just cross the last line and make up a "reason" for that, too, if pressed. But, as I said ... he does badly need some positive traits if Bioware's pointed "you should totally vow to redeem him" hints are to make any sense.

 

 

 

 

If we have learned anything, it's that he is an incredible liar and manipulator, yes. Even -- or especially? -- when it comes to lying to himself.

Definitely when it comes to lying to himself too. What pushed him over the edge he says is the murder of his good friend Mythal, not outrage at the slavery and other bad stuff the false gods did (altho I don't doubt that he hated it and didn't approve and wanted it to change). Freedomfighter, breaker of chains, martyr and savior of the People.. no, just a man who was grieving and outraged and wanted vengeance for the bloody murder of his friend. Was it compounded by how she was the least-dickish of the evanuris in his eyes? Absolutely. But the freedom stuff is a side-effect of him rising up due to her murder, a mantle he took up I feel, and wrapped himself in. A romanticized truth and later a propaganda spread by his followers.