61 réponses à ce sujet

[Korva]

@riverbanks: Aside from the fact that he doesn't actively want to annihilate everyone else and "only" views that outcome as unfortunate but nonetheless acceptable collateral damage: yep.

 

He was that kind of messiah-hero once, apparently, and has enough of a conscience to reluctantly and almost accidentally begin to care for the plights of the modern world. He even makes friends, starts seeing positive and relatable qualities in a few of these "non-people". Then he deliberately turns from that and goes all supremacist world-destroyer on them, but it's okay because he'll do it as gently as possible, see, so he's not a monster.

 

His loneliness and self-pitying sorrow are not what make him tragic, it's that he CHOSE to be that monster he denies he is.

[Vit246]

If I'm remembering right, they probably wouldn't be able to handle the influx of magic. Modern elves have quite a few physical differences compared to the ancient ones,

 

Like what differences? Whats the source? Are they really that different from ancient elves? Are they not descended from them?

[Wheels]

Why if wardens can sacrifice themselves to stop the blight can't an elf be willing to sacrifice themselves as part of desire to restore world to its true state and elves to their true state.

Errm. Maybe because Wardens are grown-ass people who choose to sacrifice their own lives, and Solas and/or the quizzy are just 2(!) , who decide killing hundreds of others is an okay thing to do?

[Korva]

Arguing that the modern elves will/should be totally fine despite what the game explicitly states, so why can't all the pretty little Lavellans join Solas as equals already and stick it to the humans for a perfect happy ending ... completely misses the point of this character.

Modifié par Korva, 12 septembre 2015 - 07:29 .

[X Equestris]

Like what differences? Whats the source? Are they really that different from ancient elves? Are they not descended from them?

All you have to do is look at them. Modern elves are shorter and less muscular than their ancient counterparts, and they were all born after the creation of the Veil. It's doubtful that they could handle the sudden rush of energies that would occur should Solas' plans succeed.

Sure they're descended from them, but the environment modern elves live in is very different from the one their predecessors lived in. It's like comparing modern humans to our pre-Ice Age ancestors.

[wright1978]

Arguing that the modern elves will/should be totally fine despite what the game explicitly states, so why can't all the pretty little Lavellans join Solas as equals already and stick it to the humans for a perfect happy ending ... completely misses the point of this character.

 

Well i think they should have given the roleplaying option for Lavellan inquisitor to serve Fen'harel along side all the other elves joining his cause.

That would have made for an interesting epilogue.

[BansheeOwnage]

I do think it doesn't make much sense for a Levellan to one minute be okay with his plans and want to help him, and the next minute vow unyieldingly to stop him. Saying you wanted to go with him should probably not have been an option, otherwise I'm pretty sure Levellan has multiple personalities.

 

So, if Solas won't ascend the current elves, where is he going to find old ones to repopulate Thedas? There must be a bunch in uthenera somewhere.

[The Oracle]

Funny, I don't think the freeing slaves and rebelling was something that happened after Mythal's murder, I think that was how he rose in fame to gain a kind of "godhood" well before it. I can imagine that he rose up to the injustices, helped to free and give sanctuary from those under the oppression of the other "Gods" and fought skirmishes when he felt the press of enemies at his heels. For all we know, he could have been happy to continue on that way, taking smaller steps and bounds towards helping the Ancient Elvhen slaves move away from the worship of their "Gods".

 

Mythal's murder instead enraged him, perhaps made him feel hopeless now that the best of a bad bunch had been betrayed by her own. I think that's what pushed him into such a drastic plan, a knee jerk reaction and grief and anger. 

[Korva]

He does tell Abelas that there are places where he can go. Some of those sanctuaries for the healing, protection and "de-programming" of former slaves from the old days must have survived, and provided him with agents already.

 

@The Oracle: Agreed, I think he and Mythal were so close partly because they were already united in the desire to stop the injustices committed by the other "gods". He doesn't strike me as someone who needs an "outside catalyst" to act, or someone's example to follow.

[wright1978]

I do think it doesn't make much sense for a Levellan to one minute be okay with his plans and want to help him, and the next minute vow unyieldingly to stop him. Saying you wanted to go with him should probably not have been an option, otherwise I'm pretty sure Levellan has multiple personalities.

 

So, if Solas won't ascend the current elves, where is he going to find old ones to repopulate Thedas? There must be a bunch in uthenera somewhere.

 

Yeah i think they should have gone all the way if it was to be a choice. As it is its one of those disappointing let's stick in a racial dialogue but have it have no impact on the story, hence why the inquisitor acts like he/she has multiple personalities.

 

I'm interested in the specifics of Fenharel's new plan. Is it time magic again(veil never created so current people no longer exist) or post veil removal will life be transformed completely or will he somehow have to recreate life like a god post destruction.

[leaguer of one]

Why if wardens can sacrifice themselves to stop the blight can't an elf be willing to sacrifice themselves as part of desire to restore world to its true state and elves to their true state.

What type of crazy response is that. A warden sacrifice their lives to save everyone no matter the race or placement in life. What Solas plans to do is a genocide to remake a world he can't guarantee the power that be will no go crazed with power and destroy themselves with it again.

[Solas]

very good points ^  oracle and korva

[riverbanks]

@riverbanks: Aside from the fact that he doesn't actively want to annihilate everyone else and "only" views that outcome as unfortunate but nonetheless acceptable collateral damage: yep.

 

That is the mark of his character, isn't it? He knows what he's doing is terrible, but he's gonna do it anyway. He doesn't like people who lie and manipulate others, but he lies and manipulates too. He doesn't want to hurt people, as Cole says, but he's hurting a lot of people as he moves. He regrets that his actions will cause bloodshed and destruction, but he's still going forward with his plans. He can even come to respect the Inquisitor (or love her, under the right circumstances), but that's still not enough to stop him. He's full of sorrow and regret about having to destroy this world to bring back the one he misses, but he's still gonna do it anyway.

 

I actually changed my mind about Solas because of what he says if you choose the option to beg for this world's sake instead of threatening to kill him in the end: you tell him you're gonna prove him this world is worth saving, and he actually wants you to prove him wrong. That's what drove him around for me, from cartoonish Disney villain to an interesting villain with depth and nuance. He's wrong, he's completely wrong and must be stopped at all costs, but even he knows that, and hopes you (or whoever new hero will actually take him down in DA4) are able to. He's absolutely the villain of the story and should not be woobified or romanticized into a tragic misunderstood hero, but damn what an interesting nemesis we got in him.

[Excella Gionne]

I thought of that option as totally out of context and outright stupid. But then, it's a choice and you can choose it if you wish. I would never choose it, and @riverbanks explains it well. Agreeing with him goes against everything you fought for, and everything you believed. You're not one of his people, and you never will be.  

[Nixou]

Hahahaha:

 

 

I'm having a weird mental image about a campaign add advocating for the nuking of 90+% of Humanity ending with a "I am the Dread Wolf and I approve This Message"

[The Oracle]

Ancient Elves are great and the rest of Thedas should burn in the hopes that the handful of them that are still about wont eventually turn back into giant dicks like the ones before.

 

-Solas Greatly Approves

[Xilizhra]

If the entire world is broken... even weighed against the people already on Thedas, the fact that the world is fundamentally broken with the Veil in place means that I find it remarkably difficult to turn away from his plan. If there really is a better way, some way to slowly and gently take down the Veil instead of simply tearing it down, then I would support that, but if it's not... it's worth thinking about how much a future for Thedas as it should be is worth.

[Solas]

LOL you guys 

[Renmiri1]

[Renmiri1]

But what really annoys me is he seems to genuinely love Lavellan (if romanced) but yet even if romanced SHE isn't even worth saving.

 

HE isn't going to be saved. Remember he is doing the "elven something" and only death is in that path. In this aspect he is similar to Mordin from ME3: he wants to fix mistake so bad he will give his life for it. So not saving Lavellan makes sense, if he is dying what is the point of having her alive seeing all the mayhem he created ?

[LOLandStuff]

Some of the posters feel rather suicidal.

 

It's so painful reading some posts.

 

Anyway, a smart Lavellan will pause for a moment there and think exactly how well Solas' plans go. Like how they all end in a colossal disaster.

I haven't seen one thing go smooth for this guy.

 

And agreeing to bring back an old civilization because he's waxing nostalgic and can't adapt is simply nonsensical. Especially after all the **** you find out about the elven gods and how it's been nothing but lies. How come no one goes through a crisis of faith? How baffling is this?

[Korva]

That is the mark of his character, isn't it? He knows what he's doing is terrible, but he's gonna do it anyway. He doesn't like people who lie and manipulate others, but he lies and manipulates too. He doesn't want to hurt people, as Cole says, but he's hurting a lot people as he moves. He regrets that his actions will cause bloodshed and destruction, but he's still going forward with his plans.

 

Indeed. Incidentally, I'm a bit worried about what that means for the way Cole may be used in the future -- if the writers intend for him to be a force in favor of redemption for Solas, how far can they stretch that when "Solas doesn't want to hurt people but does" just gets worse? Cole is Compassion, he is all for second chances and trying to be a better person, but he also firmly if unhappily draws a line when those who could change choose to hurt others. He absolutely shouldn't be used as a tool to, as you say, "woobiefy" Solas.
 

I actually changed my mind about Solas because of what he says if you choose the option to beg for this world's sake instead of threatening to kill him in the end: you tell him you're gonna prove him this world is worth saving, and he actually wants you to prove him wrong. That's what drove him around for me, from cartoonish Disney villain to an interesting villain with depth and nuance. He's wrong, he's completely wrong and must be stopped at all costs, but even he knows that, and hopes you (or whoever new hero will actually take him down in DA4) are able to. He's absolutely the villain of the story and should not be woobified or romanticized into a tragic misunderstood hero, but damn what an interesting nemesis we got in him.

 

Late reply here because I'm still massively wrestling with the sheer scale of everything Solas has done, plans to do, and believes. So far, I've had not much success trying to figure out what I feel beside shock and betrayal, and I have a really hard time imagining how a redemption angle would even begin to make sense. Bioware pulled this off in a stroke of utter brilliance, no doubt. Almost too much so. And yes, there should be no pulling punches when it comes to portraying Solas' mindset and plans as exactly as horrible as they are. I just hope they won't waste the intense hero/villain bond they created here by having another protagonist take front and center for the finale of Solas' arc.

[Shienis]

Few thousand years later...

 

Hero of The Day: "Why are you doing this?"   

Solas: "I once tore down the Veil to bring back magic for everyone. But the world I created is a nightmare. That's why I have to bring the Veil back and return everything to normal. It pains me so many lives will be destroyed, but it must be done."   

Ghost of the Inquisitor: "Uhm..." 

[vertigomez]

Few thousand years later...
 
Hero of The Day: "Why are you doing this?"   
Solas: "I once tore down the Veil to bring back magic for everyone. But the world I created is a nightmare. That's why I have to bring the Veil back and return everything to normal. It pains me so many lives will be destroyed, but it must be done."   
Ghost of the Inquisitor: "Uhm..." 

That's what I'm afraid of.

Dude just does not learn.

[Hathur]

Not sure why any elf would want to support Solas regardless... for a genocidal maniacal god he's truly awful at his job.. he's made so many mistakes and outright failed at so many things that siding with him to me would seem like a guaranteed losing proposition, based purely on his track record alone 

 

That said.. I think there's some hope in his redemption at least.. I find the notion of trying to make him see the error of his ways to be a noble goal. Just wacking your enemies with pointy things until they die gets old... wouldn't it be novel to make him see the error of his ways and realize he is wrong (something he himself acknowledges he excels at hehe).