60 réponses à ce sujet

[DragoonKain3]

Devs have stated that class balance comes first before the system accurately portraying reality (or as much reality can be incorporated into a fantasy setting).



As such, you have ranged weapons influenced by STR scores in regards to attack rating, warriors the only ones to be able to manage aggro, and yes, Rogues the only ones able to lockpick and stealing available as a skill rather than a talent (though Rogues still have the best chances to steal due to stealth giving a bonus).

[Kalcalan]

ponsau wrote...

Lock picking is in the rogues background, but not for a warrior. They don't spend any time learning that trade. A fix would be multiclassing, or maybe having an option to bash open chests, at the chance of destroying what was in it.

The way I see it for a Warrior to spend points in stealing, trap making or poison is a lot like taking a Rogue level in D&D.

[xguild]

Strictly speaking its silly to have "classes" at all when it comes right down to it. I mean is it really so far fetched that a Mage learns to pick locks or a Rogue learns to make potions? I mean there are dragons, demon spawn and magic spells in the game world and a lock picking warrior is screwing up people's sense of disbelief?

Its a mechanical flaw of the game, nothing less... an oversight... a booboo.. Im certain we will see a fix either official from Bioware or unofficial from a frustrated player.

Modifié par xguild, 01 décembre 2009 - 01:57 .

[Cuiva]

You don't need a rogue to open locks, only high cunning. The lockpicking talent reduces the cunning requirement to open the lock.

[Dom_]

xguild wrote...

Strictly speaking its silly to have "classes" at all when it comes right down to it. I mean is it really so far fetched that a Mage learns to pick locks or a Rogue learns to make potions? I mean there are dragons, demon spawn and magic spells in the game world and a lock picking warrior is screwing up people's sense of disbelief?

Its a mechanical flaw of the game, nothing less... an oversight... a booboo.. Im certain we will see a fix either official from Bioware or unofficial from a frustrated player.

I think it has to do with Rogues playing a fairly weak role in the game as it is, utility wise, distributing their ability to lock pick only makes them even more undesirable compared to warriors and makes mages better than them in every possible way. 

[Dom_]

whops, double post :<

Modifié par Dom_, 01 décembre 2009 - 02:20 .

[Kimberly Shaw]

Cuiva, is that true? That actually does make sense in a good way, although my mage on my first walk through had fairly high cunning (mage tower quest helped) due to his persuasion requirements and I was never able to open any locks, even with cunning about 26 or so? I always needed a rogue.



I am against having rogues be necessary for lock picking, that should not be the only reason to bring a rogue. Bashing should work (with a chance to ruin the item) and you should be able to buy lock picks that are consumed on trying, but will work for any character. Although I'm concerned then that locks would become even MORE pervasive and they might start to put GOOD things in those chests too!

[Enoch VG]

xguild wrote...

Strictly speaking its silly to have "classes" at all when it comes right down to it. I mean is it really so far fetched that a Mage learns to pick locks or a Rogue learns to make potions? I mean there are dragons, demon spawn and magic spells in the game world and a lock picking warrior is screwing up people's sense of disbelief?

Its a mechanical flaw of the game, nothing less... an oversight... a booboo.. Im certain we will see a fix either official from Bioware or unofficial from a frustrated player.

Really, the only reason I can see for there to be more than 2 classes (Magic-User and Non-Magic-User) is to prevent the player from having too many options at character creation (and thus too many opportunities to stumble into gimped builds (light armor and Taunt?) and get frustrated with the game).  It's a legit reason-- game designers need to protect players from themselves, both in their tendency to screw up and make the game too hard and to get all min-maxxy and make the game too easy-- but in this case it's a pretty weak one. 

[kevinwastaken]

Why are there locked chests at all in this game? I mean seriously, who would bother locking a chest that only had a plant root in it?

[Dom_]

Kimberly Shaw wrote...

Cuiva, is that true? That actually does make sense in a good way, although my mage on my first walk through had fairly high cunning (mage tower quest helped) due to his persuasion requirements and I was never able to open any locks, even with cunning about 26 or so? I always needed a rogue.

I am against having rogues be necessary for lock picking, that should not be the only reason to bring a rogue. Bashing should work (with a chance to ruin the item) and you should be able to buy lock picks that are consumed on trying, but will work for any character. Although I'm concerned then that locks would become even MORE pervasive and they might start to put GOOD things in those chests too!

IIRC your "Lock picking rank" (I'm just going to dub it that for now) is determined by:

LPR = Cunning - 10 + [Rank of Lock picking abilities (i.e 0-4) * 10]
The highest chest in the game has a LPR of 60. 


SO with 26 Cunning and 0 Lock picking skill you have a LPR of 16..
I don't know if other classes are capable having a LPR, and I doubt there are any chests near middle-end game that you could unlock with a LPR of 16.

[Jack_Cheze]

It's the general rp paradigm. There are classes, DA:O does a good job of condensing down to the basics. I also like that they use the newer idea of a rogue instead of a straight up thief, because in the old d&d days almost no one liked to be a thief, but rogues are fun...

[ponsau]

I disagree that rogues are weak or worthless. I played a rogue my second playthrough and found it a lot of fun, and could actually see a lot of worth in having one around. Some enemies and quests you can avoid entirely with stealth, if you like to do so. Also you can eventually stealth in battle, and with backstab and classes like assassin you can deal plenty of damage and dissapear easily. If stealth doesn't work you can fein death, then get back up and backstab. With backstab and dual wield you can pull great crowd control while not pulling agro. I found with enchanted dual wield longswords etc that I can easily sneak up on mages and take them out fast, especially with the poison skill using magebane poison. I also found it fun to set traps all down a hall or entry way, and wipe out a mob by traps alone. The lock picking to me is secondary as a rogue, but although it is true that most locked chests do not contain any quest or plot specific items, you get tons of loot that way. So far I've got the most money earlier in the game with my rogue, compared to my warrior, because I loot every chest and pick every pocket I see. You can buy lots of great gear if you take advantage of this. I actually stopped playing my mage because I was having more fun as a rogue.

I started another warrior character, and now I find myself taking advantage of Leilana and Zev more. Now I see that they have other uses besides lockpicking, and can make some difficult encounters more easy with the right poison and traps. If you haven't given the rogue class a try you should. It changed my opinion. Not sure about the Leiliana rogue route i.e. archer, because it drops the backstab. I started an origin w/ dalish elf rogue archer/ranger, so might see how that may be different. The animal companion deals damage keeping you out of melee, while you shoot them down from afar? Starting out it wasn't as fun as the stealthy dual wield made.

[zappo13]

rogues are not only good to have to open chests that are locked but strong as well, my rogue had a bow and hit always 40+. with the 'arrow of slaying' i hit 250 easy. so i had allistar and sten to distract the enemy and me and morrigan where just simply killing everything. i killed flemeth when i was lvl 8,

and when i was a warrior i tried it when i was lvl 14 and i still could not kill her.

[Fryce]

I still think its stupid that your warrior who can intimidate most people into cowering in fear, can not hulk smash a chest or door down ..as was shown you COULD INFACT DO..at one point in the game..think circle of magi and lalala land

EDIT: Hell when you get shale at one point, you can persuade Alistair that shale's purpose is to do this VERY THING haha

Modifié par SharpneI, 07 décembre 2009 - 09:10 .

[fro7k]

Why does everyone call the contents of the locked chests junk? I make more money from them than most other places.

[Copyright Theft]

Dom_ wrote...

Kimberly Shaw wrote...

Cuiva, is that true? That actually does make sense in a good way, although my mage on my first walk through had fairly high cunning (mage tower quest helped) due to his persuasion requirements and I was never able to open any locks, even with cunning about 26 or so? I always needed a rogue.

I am against having rogues be necessary for lock picking, that should not be the only reason to bring a rogue. Bashing should work (with a chance to ruin the item) and you should be able to buy lock picks that are consumed on trying, but will work for any character. Although I'm concerned then that locks would become even MORE pervasive and they might start to put GOOD things in those chests too!

IIRC your "Lock picking rank" (I'm just going to dub it that for now) is determined by:

LPR = Cunning - 10 + [Rank of Lock picking abilities (i.e 0-4) * 10]
The highest chest in the game has a LPR of 60. 


SO with 26 Cunning and 0 Lock picking skill you have a LPR of 16..
I don't know if other classes are capable having a LPR, and I doubt there are any chests near middle-end game that you could unlock with a LPR of 16.

Your math is correct but you still need at least 1 rank in lock-picking (used a respec mod to give a point to Daveth in Ostagar - with 1 rank he could open the chests but without it he couldn't no matter his cunning)

There is a mod available on Dragon Age Nexus www.dragonagenexus.com/downloads/file.php that gives Mages an extra spell line for unlocking. Use at your discretion (I got it because I want to try soloing as an AW)

There is a disadvantage in this as you will not get the XP if you use the spell rather than picking.

EDIT: Your not You're gah!

Modifié par Copyright Theft, 07 décembre 2009 - 09:24 .

[ponsau]

Yeah I agree. I did the Mage origin and afterwards was wondering why their was not a "Knock" lockpicking spell or something. I think this post just boils down to the fact that its frustrating to pass up all those chests you com across unless you bring a rogue. And sometimes you don't want to bring a rogue because you like other characters that Bioware has written, or you just want to change up the party, but always have to drag Leilana or Zev around. As the Human noble, sometimes I'd rather just kick a chest open, and bring my Mabari along instead of the Rogue just because I get tired of Lel and Zev.

[repivemag]

It seems pointless to be upset about not picking locks I myself was a rogue and enjoyed it and opening chests for good items earlier on, but the fact that you mostly use light and occasionally medium armor upset me, but that's the trade off Rogue: Picks locks Warrior: Heavier(and better looking)armor it seems fair to me.

[ponsau]

Reading SharpneI's post... It would be cool if you could at least kick most doors down, based on strength maybe? You right. My warrior at 50 strength should be able to kick down a door in a house. The only place they give the option is on the blacksmith's door in Redcliffe. I am assuming there are some mechanics they did not get to add for some reason or another. Maybe they will do stuff like this in DLC?

[Bryy_Miller]

Leil is a great warrior-thief if you level her that way.

[Fryce]

ponsau wrote...

Reading SharpneI's post... It would be cool if you could at least kick most doors down, based on strength maybe? You right. My warrior at 50 strength should be able to kick down a door in a house. The only place they give the option is on the blacksmith's door in Redcliffe. I am assuming there are some mechanics they did not get to add for some reason or another. Maybe they will do stuff like this in DLC?

+Ughh that dwarf guy whose name eludes me also in Redcliffe. Why the hell did Devs stop rolling with this idea stop in Redcliffe? 

Edit: Dwyn I think

Modifié par SharpneI, 07 décembre 2009 - 09:45 .

[repivemag]

You could also kick open Dwyn's door. I'm confused why they did what they did even though the system they had in KOTOR worked so well.

[siguho]

There is a mod to add a lockpicking spell to mages, for those of you who'd like that. I didn't make it and I have not tried it, but it's hom is at:

http://dragonagemodding.wordpress.com/

edit: oops, it was already posted. I need to read threads more thoroughly.

Modifié par siguho, 07 décembre 2009 - 09:48 .

[repivemag]

yeah Dwyn's home.They should have done what they did in Kotor with being able to smash a chest.

[Fryce]

repivemag wrote...

yeah Dwyn's home.They should have done what they did in Kotor with being able to smash a chest.

What the eff, they use this widely in another game but not their newest and most bold title?!
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Modifié par SharpneI, 07 décembre 2009 - 09:51 .