231 réponses à ce sujet

[Dai Grepher]

I thought that Cole just replicated the human Cole's body instead of possessing something.  Solas says very clearly that he's possessing nothing and nobody.  

 

I also just reread the report for Upon the Waking Sea, and I can't see anything in it that implies that the guardian could not have been sustained in whatever form by the lyrium.  Nothing explicitly says that the Guardian was still there or that anyone from the Inquisition actually met him.  Even if they had, however, who is to say that someone that's "brought back" by lyrium would then need to stay in close proximity to it afterwards?  Heck, who's to say there isn't a load of lyrium under the island he moved the urn to?

 

I think he only says that before his quest where he remembers what really happened.

 

It's in the results of the operation "The Secrets of Andraste". It talks about the Guardian and the island to the north. I guess taken as a whole, it's somewhat ambiguous as to what guardian fled to the island. I guess you'd have to take it in context of Varric's Keep dialogue about the ashes mysteriously disappearing from the site. So the guardian is confirmed to be gone from the site, but references to him still exist and point to the northern island.

 

Also, Oghren's theory is that the lyrium is keeping the Guardian alive. So moving away from it, in Oghren's theory, would basically end the Guardian's life.

[Dai Grepher]

Or maybe... It was the Maker! 

 

Pre-DAI I actually had a theory that lyrium was the essence of the Maker, still present in his creation, and I speculated that was why the lyrium was so concentrated on this mountaintop (Despite usually being found deep underground).  I was wrong, but also kinda right.  Could there be a Titan link to Andraste?  Who knows...

 

Of course it was. We the faithful know it for certain.

 

My theory is that the lyrium was drawn to the site because of the Maker's influence over that specific site. I think lyrium is just energy from the Fade though. I think the titans are lyrium infused with sprits. Which is why dwarves go to the "stone" when they die. Meaning, they go into lyrium.

[Mr.House]

I thought that Cole just replicated the human Cole's body instead of possessing something.  Solas says very clearly that he's possessing nothing and nobody.  

 

I also just reread the report for Upon the Waking Sea, and I can't see anything in it that implies that the guardian could not have been sustained in whatever form by the lyrium.  Nothing explicitly says that the Guardian was still there or that anyone from the Inquisition actually met him.  Even if they had, however, who is to say that someone that's "brought back" by lyrium would then need to stay in close proximity to it afterwards?  Heck, who's to say there isn't a load of lyrium under the island he moved the urn to?

That's the thing, this spirit (which is most likely a spirit of faith) simply replicated the body of Leli with lyruim, it's not her real body.

[leaguer of one]

Yeah, but he doesn't say that's the case for certain. Which was what I pointed out to the person I replied to, though the discussion was about the Guardian, not the urn.

 

They may not have been Fade creatures. Those may have been the spirits of those historical figures. Failing their question might summon a guardian spirit (ash wraith). The Holy Brazier codex and the Ash Wraith codex both confirm that the ash wraiths of the temple are created from the loyal followers of Andraste who fasted, placed a black pearl in their mouths, and then immolated themselves in the Holy Brazier so they could continue to exist in the real world as guardians.

So what, it make is a case that what we see is not what's going on. this is not something holy but magical.Which added to the point. What is going on here? When asked the guardian say he does not question what's going on himself which mean what ever he is saying about the temple is speculatory. Heck, he does not even know the temple really is Mythal's. Also, the lyruim make thing even more odd being that they are only deep underground. The lyruim there is oddly to close to the surface.

 

And frostback mountain is a lighting bolt of weird. Heck, shyhold, which use to be Solas' castle were he made the veil is there,too.

 

Point is what we are seeing is not whats going on.

[leaguer of one]

I think he only says that before his quest where he remembers what really happened.

 

It's in the results of the operation "The Secrets of Andraste". It talks about the Guardian and the island to the north. I guess taken as a whole, it's somewhat ambiguous as to what guardian fled to the island. I guess you'd have to take it in context of Varric's Keep dialogue about the ashes mysteriously disappearing from the site. So the guardian is confirmed to be gone from the site, but references to him still exist and point to the northern island.

 

Also, Oghren's theory is that the lyrium is keeping the Guardian alive. So moving away from it, in Oghren's theory, would basically end the Guardian's life.

Not really, nothing says the guardian can move away from the lyruim for a while and live.

[leaguer of one]

Of course it was. We the faithful know it for certain.

 

My theory is that the lyrium was drawn to the site because of the Maker's influence over that specific site. I think lyrium is just energy from the Fade though. I think the titans are lyrium infused with sprits. Which is why dwarves go to the "stone" when they die. Meaning, they go into lyrium.

Dude, there is no maker. Also, lyruim can't be drawn any were outside of the titan's influence. this is a mountain were the temple of mythal is and Shyhold which was own by Solas is and where Solas made the veil.

[wolfsite]

Now this just shows the determination of the BSN

 

 

Information comes up explaining how something happenned

 

1 month later...

 

people still debating. I expect this to give us at least another 2 years of entertaining discussions on how it is right/wrong.

[In Exile]

Yeah, but he doesn't say that's the case for certain. Which was what I pointed out to the person I replied to, though the discussion was about the Guardian, not the urn.

 

They may not have been Fade creatures. Those may have been the spirits of those historical figures. Failing their question might summon a guardian spirit (ash wraith). The Holy Brazier codex and the Ash Wraith codex both confirm that the ash wraiths of the temple are created from the loyal followers of Andraste who fasted, placed a black pearl in their mouths, and then immolated themselves in the Holy Brazier so they could continue to exist in the real world as guardians.

 

I was replying to the chain - you're right that Oghren doesn't say that lyrium => spirits, but he does address the supposedly divine nature of the ashes in a more mundane way.,

 

More to the point, not all of the people who died to become ash wraiths died at the temple. So that story doesn't make sense. 

[leaguer of one]

I was replying to the chain - you're right that Oghren doesn't say that lyrium => spirits, but he does address the supposedly divine nature of the ashes in a more mundane way.,

 

More to the point, not all of the people who died to become ash wraiths died at the temple. So that story doesn't make sense. 

Not all the people that showed up in the temple died at all.

[Dai Grepher]

So what, it make is a case that what we see is not what's going on. this is not something holy but magical.Which added to the point. What is going on here? When asked the guardian say he does not question what's going on himself which mean what ever he is saying about the temple is speculatory. Heck, he does not even know the temple really is Mythal's. Also, the lyruim make thing even more odd being that they are only deep underground. The lyruim there is oddly to close to the surface.

 

And frostback mountain is a lighting bolt of weird. Heck, shyhold, which use to be Solas' castle were he made the veil is there,too.

 

Point is what we are seeing is not whats going on.

 

So it makes Oghren's speculation just that.

 

The Guardian says he doesn't question. That doesn't mean Oghren is automatically correct. In fact it means what he says is NOT speculation. He's telling you what he has been told. He also confirms that he knew Andraste.

 

The temple was not Mythal's. The Temple of Sacred Ashes was built over the ruins of Mythal's.

 

Who says lyrium is only deep underground? Besides, the gauntlet's temple is in a mountain. Which means, deep underground.

 

Allegedly made the Veil. And the Frostback Mountain RANGE having weird occurrences means nothing. The Maker could have used that location as well. Just because elves used it at one time doesn't matter.

 

Well all those spirits were very specific to historical people. And the Guardian confirms his own past and Andraste, so I'd say that solid evidence. Also, the ashes work as intended, even outside of the temple and away from the lyrium.

 

 

[Dai Grepher]

Not really, nothing says the guardian can move away from the lyruim for a while and live.

 

You mean can't move away? Well yes, Oghren's theory is that the lyrium sustains the Guardian. So moving away from that which sustains you usually results in you not being sustained anymore.

[Dai Grepher]

Dude, there is no maker. Also, lyruim can't be drawn any were outside of the titan's influence. this is a mountain were the temple of mythal is and Shyhold which was own by Solas is and where Solas made the veil.

 

Blasphemer.

 

Lyrium can't be drawn anywhere outside a titan's influence eh? So I guess the red templars are titans now, right?

 

It's where a temple of Mythal used to be. And the gauntlet takes place away from that temple inside the mountain.

 

Even Solas' castle was gone and built upon by humans.

 

And there's no proof Solas made the Veil at all, let alone in that location.

[Dai Grepher]

I was replying to the chain - you're right that Oghren doesn't say that lyrium => spirits, but he does address the supposedly divine nature of the ashes in a more mundane way.,

 

More to the point, not all of the people who died to become ash wraiths died at the temple. So that story doesn't make sense. 

 

It provides an alternative hypothesis. Doesn't mean it's a sound one.

 

I didn't claim those people's spirits were the ash wraiths. My theory is that if you fail a question, the spirit disappears and an ash wraith appears in its place.

[SnackPackWarrior]

Meh. I don't like Leliana all that much, but I think this would be sad only if you unhardened her.

Hardened Leliana would just be like "Meh, I have no real purpose anymore and am not getting the attention I deserve, I'm outie."

But still. Undead Divine, that'd be so hilarious and would raise so much **** in the Chantry. Where's your Maker now?

[Rawgrim]

A ghost possessing a human body. It is revealed in his personal quest.

 

Leliana on the other hand would need a new body, or would otherwise have to exist without one.
 

 

Exactly.

[In Exile]

It provides an alternative hypothesis. Doesn't mean it's a sound one.

 

I didn't claim those people's spirits were the ash wraiths. My theory is that if you fail a question, the spirit disappears and an ash wraith appears in its place.

 

But there's no evidence for that - it's the equivalent of assuming that all of the spirits are just one person who is really good at dressing up and is using a creative series of mirrors. 

[Xcorpyo]

No he doesn't. You're not remembering it in exact terms. He feels lyrium running all through the mountain, and he wonders how much of the temple is magical vs. lyrium influenced. He then asks the Guardian what exactly is keeping him alive. Which means he doesn't know. Which means his was just a hypothesis.

 

And like I wrote, the chore table confirms that the Guardian can move the urn to a new location. It was never the lyrium.
 

 

 

Well, if Oghren's hypotesis was a wrong one, the guardian could easily tear it apart with a simple no. His answer, 'we do not question the will of the Maker bla bla bla' doesn't sound like a 'nope, you're wrong' but more like a '****, he's on to us! Evasive Measures!'. Not to mention that his 'mind reading mojo' is exactly the one Cole seems to have,  So Fade spirit bound to the ashes, which are in turn juiced up by the lyrium present in Mythal's temple. Oh, I mean in Andraste's temple.

 

And maybe the guardian is only powered up by the lyrium in his body(Like Leli), or the lyrium in the ashes, or maybe he took the ashes and some lyrium when he left for greener pastures. 

[Aren]

If you kill Leliana  in origin's and she does not become divine you get this ending for her...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 At 1:15  Not only does he talk about the lyrium, he asks if the urn or the mountain is magical and directly ask the guardian what is keeping him alive.

 

Oghren question is legitimate,still i do believe that the Urn  of  sacred ashes are magical on their own,since that the ashes cured the Aegis   long ago before that the temple was even created (Andraste blood was magical maybe).

[Aren]

It's a rather cheap way to get around death. But I guess they've at least finally delivered on the promised explanation.

Ok now is the time of the Warden.

Killed in DAO,resurrected in DAA and killed again in DAII

Bioware What is happen exactly?

If you have a problem ahead with planning a story because you don't know if a character will be reused again or not,this is 

 the solution!

Spoiler

What's up?  We are already  full of dragons in this game   one more isn't  so bad.

[Aren]

I was replying to the chain - you're right that Oghren doesn't say that lyrium => spirits, but he does address the supposedly divine nature of the ashes in a more mundane way.,

 

More to the point, not all of the people who died to become ash wraiths died at the temple. So that story doesn't make sense. 

See in Exile  he always know when there is something missing.

Peoples tend to often to address the temple as just a magical mountain filled with Lyrium  opr  the  ashes as  mundane  just because  a drunk dwarf  ignorant  about both  magic and history said that,but that's not the whole picture,many of those persons didn't even died at the temple,so no spirits would have eat their

memories there, they are not spirits more likely they are memories,living memories.

DAO  is  just full of  plot holes,those  persons in the temple can't be spirit they must be something else.

[Reznore57]

There isn't much explanation about what Leliana is if she died at Haven.

It seems the lyrium song kept her alive somehow , but no talk of spirit.

I assume the ancient elven temple there was special because if Lyrium was able to raise the dead , people would have noticed it by now.

[leaguer of one]

Exactly.

Who's possessing a human body because only Justice does that as a character.

[Heimdall]

A ghost possessing a human body. It is revealed in his personal quest.

 

Leliana on the other hand would need a new body, or would otherwise have to exist without one.
 

Cole isn't possessing anyone, he copied the original Cole mind and body when he manifested outside the Fade, somewhat like a Shade.  Like how Envy copied the Lord Seeker.

[Rawgrim]

Who's possessing a human body because only Justice does that as a character.

 

Not sure what your point is?

[Rawgrim]

Shouldn't everyone that got killed at the Sacred Ashes attack at the start of DA:I get "raised" too then? If it only takes the lyrium in the bedrock to do it.