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Solas About Ancient Dwarves (Spoilers)


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#1
BansheeOwnage

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Random ramblings and thoughts to follow:

 

In Trespasser, you learn that he views the modern population as most people would view tranquil - less than people. He believes something intrinsic and fundamental to being a full person is now lost to the elves, but I think he regrets what happened to the ancient dwarves as well. We don't know what happened, but in banter with Varric, he argues with almost as much fervor as about the elves that something was lost to them that makes them less than they were in a fundamental way.

 

I would assume this is a greater connection to Titans/The Stone that they must have had at one point, just like the elves and the fade. This may have also given dwarves their own magic, which would be another reason Solas is upset about Varric not caring about The Stone.

 

He says "Dwarves are the severed arm of a once mighty hero, lying in a pool of blood, undirected, whatever skill at arms it had gone forever. Although it might twitch to give the appearance of life, it will never dream."

 

That seems exactly like what he thinks of the rest of the world being sundered from the fade. Sometimes they seem to mirror what he sees as being truly alive, but it's just an imitation.

 

Codices also describe an event in the past that "Split the dwarven race in two." Perhaps this is because the Titans are dormant, or too many have been killed? Are the Titans and dwarves both seen as dwarves by the writer of this entry, as they're both "children of The Stone"? The mural of a Titan being killed does resemble a dwarf in shape. That mural depicts Mythal destroying a Titan so the ancient elves could make use of their demesne, which basically means land or domain. In this case, it means lyrium, and according to the Inquisitor, something else that is unclear.

 

Also on the mural has someone (presumably Solas) talk about how the greed of the Evanuris threatens the elves, but could he also simply not want the dwarves to lose their connection to the Titans and The Stone? He might no longer see them as people if they did (and they did). Oddly though, Mythal, the only Evanuris he admires is the one destroying the Titan.

 

Back to the above quote: If the dwarves are supposed to be connected to the Titans, they are almost literally "lying in a pool of blood." The Titans' blood. Maybe if he destroys the veil, it will wake the Titans and reconnect the dwarves to them, and in Solas' eyes, ascend them to the prestigious rank of Person. Maybe that's a nice side-bonus to restoring the elves.

 

Lastly, does anyone now find it rather amusing (in a macabre sort of way) that Solas' analogy is a severed arm? :ph34r:


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#2
Dancing_Dolphin

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Solas is cracked. Nothing he says makes what he plans to do a positive thing.
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#3
BansheeOwnage

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Solas is cracked. Nothing he says makes what he plans to do a positive thing.

I don't think I implied that it was positive, but he's not completely devoid of a conscience either. I don't think his goal has anything to do with dwarves, but he might not mind the side-effect of them being returned to their previous state.



#4
pdusen

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Solas is cracked. Nothing he says makes what he plans to do a positive thing.

 

Not really sure what that has to do with the topic at hand...



#5
DuskWanderer

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Solas doesn't know very much about ancient dwarves. Since they have no mages, spirits aren't attracted to them like they are to humans or elves. Solas even admits what he knows is just from what a random spirit watches, and (naturally) the spirit may not understand it. In Asunder, we saw wisps being distracted easily, and thinking statues are real. 

 

Solas probably does not see the dwarves as people any more than he doesn't see humans



#6
Al Foley

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Hmm.  Does make you wonder if humanity only evolved after the Veil was created.  And is hence, to Solas, 'the problem.'



#7
DuskWanderer

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Hmm.  Does make you wonder if humanity only evolved after the Veil was created.  And is hence, to Solas, 'the problem.'

They weren't in Thedas. But humanity came from across the sea. Perhaps the Fade doesn't exist there. Did humanity have magic before crossing the sea to reach Thedas?



#8
In Exile

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I think he literally means "severed arm" rather than as a metaphor. One, it's exactly the kind of way Solas likes to act clever - saying that the absolute truth without anyone even remotely catching on.

The Veil had a physical effect: it cut things off. It tore them apart (we see that literally in Trespasser in the Library). It's now all but confirmed everything we "physically" see in the Fade is just a part of the physical world that got caught on the wrong side of the Veil when Solas pulled off his original gambit.

My theory is that it cut off the dwarves in a much more literal way from the titans - as their effective immune system. They essentially gained sentience after that point. They can't "cast" magic because they're already reaching out for the titans but they can't get to them.
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#9
Mr.House

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Solas doesn't know very much about ancient dwarves. Since they have no mages, spirits aren't attracted to them like they are to humans or elves. Solas even admits what he knows is just from what a random spirit watches, and (naturally) the spirit may not understand it. In Asunder, we saw wisps being distracted easily, and thinking statues are real. 

 

Solas probably does not see the dwarves as people any more than he doesn't see humans

Explain why Primeval Thaig is filled to the rim with demons.



#10
Al Foley

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They weren't in Thedas. But humanity came from across the sea. Perhaps the Fade doesn't exist there. Did humanity have magic before crossing the sea to reach Thedas?

Excellent question.



#11
BansheeOwnage

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Solas doesn't know very much about ancient dwarves. Since they have no mages, spirits aren't attracted to them like they are to humans or elves. Solas even admits what he knows is just from what a random spirit watches, and (naturally) the spirit may not understand it. In Asunder, we saw wisps being distracted easily, and thinking statues are real. 

 

Solas probably does not see the dwarves as people any more than he doesn't see humans

He has to know more about them than almost any current person, since he was around when the Evanuris were at war with the Titans. He always says he's learned things from the fade to hide his identity, because it's often a half-truth. And his comments to Varric show he knows more than he's letting on too. But you're right that he - at least no longer - sees dwarves as full people, which is what I was getting at in my post.

 

I think he literally means "severed arm" rather than as a metaphor. One, it's exactly the kind of way Solas likes to act clever - saying that the absolute truth without anyone even remotely catching on.

The Veil had a physical effect: it cut things off. It tore them apart (we see that literally in Trespasser in the Library). It's now all but confirmed everything we "physically" see in the Fade is just a part of the physical world that got caught on the wrong side of the Veil when Solas pulled off his original gambit.

My theory is that it cut off the dwarves in a much more literal way from the titans - as their effective immune system. They essentially gained sentience after that point. They can't "cast" magic because they're already reaching out for the titans but they can't get to them.

I was actually going to make a post almost exactly like that here, yes! Perhaps Sha-Brytol didn't come from dwarves (who act like an immune system), but dwarves came from Sha-Brytol. In the sense that originally, they're purpose may have been to act as a defense for the Titans. There is a codex I don't have on hand that suggests Mythal may have "freed" them from this. They were awakened. The "skill at arms" he refers to may simply be magic casting as well.

 

Maybe the split had to do with Mythal killing Titans. On the other hand, the veil could have caused it like you said, by sending the Titans to sleep. Perhaps they can barely function with the veil intact, which is why they awaken when it is breached. Lots to think and guess about.



#12
Dancing_Dolphin

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Not really sure what that has to do with the topic at hand...

Guess I contributed as little to the topic as you did then...

#13
BansheeOwnage

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So, elves originally inhabited Thedas, as did dwarves underground and probably past Thedas as well. Humans came from a different continent across the sea, as did the kossith. Qunari descended from kossith through as-of-yet unknown circumstances, but most likely involving dragons. And there are the scaled ones, who may or may not be the kossith. Correct?

 

That means there are almost certainly other human civilizations beyond Thedas. Why did I not realize this sooner? Unless they were all forced to flee like the Qunari. Hmm... so many questions.


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#14
Al Foley

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So, elves originally inhabited Thedas, as did dwarves underground and probably past Thedas as well. Humans came from a different continent across the sea, as did the kossith. Qunari descended from kossith through as-of-yet unknown circumstances, but most likely involving dragons. And there are the scaled ones, who may or may not be the kossith. Correct?

 

That means there are almost certainly other human civilizations beyond Thedas. Why did I not realize this sooner? Unless they were all forced to flee like the Qunari. Hmm... so many questions.

Wouldn't it be funny if they had to flee their lands because of the creation of the Veil.  That Solas buried entire continents under the ocean.  



#15
BansheeOwnage

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Wouldn't it be funny if they had to flee their lands because of the creation of the Veil.  That Solas buried entire continents under the ocean.  

Well, I don't know why the veil would flood places, but yes, it would be rather poetic if Solas indirectly infested his world with puny humans and qunari ^_^


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#16
Al Foley

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Well, I don't know why the veil would flood places, but yes, it would be rather poetic if Solas indirectly infested his world with puny humans and qunari ^_^

It had apparently a very destructive gelogical effect on Thedas.  The world went from being very maleable to unmaleable with a wave of a staff. 



#17
BansheeOwnage

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It had apparently a very destructive gelogical effect on Thedas.  The world went from being very maleable to unmaleable with a wave of a staff. 

Oh, I must have missed that. Well, there's no telling what happened then.



#18
In Exile

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It had apparently a very destructive gelogical effect on Thedas. The world went from being very maleable to unmaleable with a wave of a staff.


The world was somehow more like the Fade - more influenced by thought. I'm not sure we'd even call that geological.

And it might not have been a wave of the staff. My own theory is that Solas is pulling in all those elves not to save them but for a blood magic ritual. He'll burn all their lives to rip off the Veil.

#19
Al Foley

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The world was somehow more like the Fade - more influenced by thought. I'm not sure we'd even call that geological.

And it might not have been a wave of the staff. My own theory is that Solas is pulling in all those elves not to save them but for a blood magic ritual. He'll burn all their lives to rip off the Veil.

Ewwww.  



#20
vertigomez

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So, elves originally inhabited Thedas, as did dwarves underground and probably past Thedas as well. Humans came from a different continent across the sea, as did the kossith. Qunari descended from kossith through as-of-yet unknown circumstances, but most likely involving dragons. And there are the scaled ones, who may or may not be the kossith. Correct?
 
That means there are almost certainly other human civilizations beyond Thedas. Why did I not realize this sooner? Unless they were all forced to flee like the Qunari. Hmm... so many questions.


Don't forget the Fex, who're apparently native to Par Vollen.

I think Gaider only mentioned them, like... one time, though.

#21
TheBlackAdder13

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Don't forget the Fex, who're apparently native to Par Vollen.

I think Gaider only mentioned them, like... one time, though.

 

It is one of the answers in quizquistion though...



#22
Arakat

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I'm so sorry, but... "the severed arm of a once mighty hero"? Really, Solas? Really?


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#23
X Equestris

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Hmm. Kieran says to a dwarven Inquisitor that "You can't be tall again. Not without the Titans." Perhaps this is connected with what Solas says.

#24
vertigomez

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It is one of the answers in quizquistion though...


Oh! I didn't realize that.

Maybe the Fex and the Scaled Ones are one and the same..?

I'm so sorry, but... "the severed arm of a once mighty hero"? Really, Solas? Really?


I think my blood pressure went up at that one.
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#25
BansheeOwnage

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The world was somehow more like the Fade - more influenced by thought. I'm not sure we'd even call that geological.

And it might not have been a wave of the staff. My own theory is that Solas is pulling in all those elves not to save them but for a blood magic ritual. He'll burn all their lives to rip off the Veil.

He says he doesn't use blood magic because it makes it harder to access the fade, but I don't know if that would still apply without the veil. If it would, then I think we can safely say he won't use blood magic. In addition, the Magisters Seven used a lot of blood magic and copious amounts of lyrium, and they only accomplished entering the fade in the flesh. I don't think that would ever be enough to destroy it.

 

I'm so sorry, but... "the severed arm of a once mighty hero"? Really, Solas? Really?

I know! :wacko: And considering it was Weekes who wrote him, and he's the new lead, I think he had this planned for a while. He does things like this all the time (like there apparently being a golden prosthetic left arm in the golden nug room at Darvaarad). Then of course there's the Skyhold surgeon who says "When in doubt, amputate!" Like... really? Now you're just rubbing it in our faces! :crying:

 

Hmm. Kieran says to a dwarven Inquisitor that "You can't be tall again. Not without the Titans." Perhaps this is connected with what Solas says.

I think it is, yes. Kieran probably means tall in a metaphorical way, as in "something more".


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