110 réponses à ce sujet

[robertthebard]

Besides i still find it a bit illogical that we still have the warden conflict in the north, and not having the HoF involved in that doesnt sound right. Or something importent like stopping the last archdemons once and for all. Anything less is cheap

...and this smacks of nothing but fanservice. Assuming my canon Warden had survived the AD, which she did not, she didn't want to be a Warden, so why should she have to fall into your preferred canon? Because it's yours? I'm sure there are others that would share your ideal dream, but there are also others that won't, and others that can't. So it's not surprising that it's the HoF isn't involved.

[SwiftMustache]

I'm still disappointed that we got Teagan instead of Fergus.

[Beomer]

I'm still disappointed that we got Teagan instead of Fergus.

 

Fergus could've never been that much of a jerk.

And from a practical perspective, everyone knows Teagan. Only the people who played HN or let Nathaniel survive in Awakening know of Fergus.

[Aren]

 

 

Edit: I understand frustration about a beloved character not getting closure 

They gave the possibility to get a closure for the Warden,so i don't see the problem for DAO,just as i don't find the problem for the Inq who is the last person to be capable to defeat Solas now, for practical reasons (Solas know the modus operandi of the Inq and her/his weakness)

 

My HoFs' stories ended with DAO.  I'm just glad it's confirmed they're finally enjoying their well-earned retirements.

I will twist my canon in US,the last thing that i want is to see the HoF getting old in his/her retirements,like an hero in pension

[Beomer]

...and this smacks of nothing but fanservice. Assuming my canon Warden had survived the AD, which she did not, she didn't want to be a Warden, so why should she have to fall into your preferred canon? Because it's yours? I'm sure there are others that would share your ideal dream, but there are also others that won't, and others that can't. So it's not surprising that it's the HoF isn't involved.

 

Had I been a hardcore BW fanboy, I would've said if you don't like it don't buy it. Your Warden died. Their's didn't. If BW makes a DLC which does not match your canon, who's forcing you to play it?

 

Speaking from a reasonable perspective (one which I always strive to keep), a major plot involving the HoF at this point after 2 games would indeed be fan service. I've come around to believing that happy endings with epilogue slides and letters are far better than making a comeback dying in the Fade.

[TammieAZ]

I want to see my Queen -warden. I don't wanna read about her in a lazy-ass codex at the end of the game. 

 

 

[Korva]

Fergus could've never been that much of a jerk.

Anyone can be a jerk of the writers decide so, unfortunately. But yeah, as annoyed as I am about what they did with Teagan, it would have been worse to use Fergus in this way.

[GoldenGail3]

Anyone can be a jerk of the writers decide so, unfortunately. But yeah, as annoyed as I am about what they did with Teagan, it would have been worse to use Fergus in this way.

I know, my Cousland would've been disappointed with her brother if he was the one being a jerk (or not disappointed, more like really very sad) and I liked Fergus! I'm glad they kept him alive in DAO, and when he contacted my Inquistor, he even sounded nice. (Thanks Bioware for not messing up my Couslands brother)

[Rappeldrache]

I want to see my Queen -warden. I don't wanna read about her in a lazy-ass codex at the end of the game. 

 

 

I would be happy about a little notice that she is back home.

[dsl08002]

...and this smacks of nothing but fanservice. Assuming my canon Warden had survived the AD, which she did not, she didn't want to be a Warden, so why should she have to fall into your preferred canon? Because it's yours? I'm sure there are others that would share your ideal dream, but there are also others that won't, and others that can't. So it's not surprising that it's the HoF isn't involved.

if your warden died in your playthrough wtf do you care what happens next with the others that didn't?

its no better then your statement "my warden is dead therefor the other players warden who is alive should not be there"

[robertthebard]

if your warden died in your playthrough wtf do you care what happens next with the others that didn't?

its no better then your statement "my warden is dead therefor the other players warden who is alive should not be there"

Because all this incessant whining about the Warden is quite annoying. You see, we're not talking about a little blurb here, we're talking about a major role in events that are happening in everyone's game, and if they write the HoF in, then it's got to be for everyone. Before you latch onto "the Orlesian Warden would fit right in", since the HoF is so easily replaced, any Warden would do, and they can just leave the HoF alone.

[Beomer]

Because all this incessant whining about the Warden is quite annoying. You see, we're not talking about a little blurb here, we're talking about a major role in events that are happening in everyone's game, and if they write the HoF in, then it's got to be for everyone. Before you latch onto "the Orlesian Warden would fit right in", since the HoF is so easily replaced, any Warden would do, and they can just leave the HoF alone.

 

1. What makes you assume already that a Warden conflict in the North would be a major thing?

2. Even assuming it is and, hypothetically speaking, they actually plan on making HoF a major part of it (which they most certainly won't), why should cater only to those whose HoFs have died, instead of catering only to those whose haven't? What makes the people who chose US ending more eligible to have their choice catered to with a random Warden character rather than those who chose any other ending?

Just because some HoF fans have periodically asked for their character's return, does not make their wishes any less important than your own. In fact insisting so much that the HoF not be brought back while berating the ones who are asking for him to be reintroduced in some major role for going on about it, smacks of borderline hypocrisy.

 

The reason they aren't bringing back the HoF isn't because a part of their player-base chose US, or a part chose to romance Zevran or another chose to romance Leliana or any of that. It's not even because they can be elven, dwarven or human or ever because they were an unvoiced character. It's a combination of everything.

The point being if at all some day they do manage to overcome all the other hurdles, the 'issue' that some people chose the US ending, is really going to be a non-issue, just like people killing off Oghren or Leliana hasn't mattered up till now save in the Trespasser epilogue.

[FALCONGTX]

Before you latch onto "the Orlesian Warden would fit right in", since the HoF is so easily replaced, any Warden would do, and they can just leave the HoF alone.

It is other way around actually, if any Warden will do then there no harm to use HoF. Again do not force your canons on others.

[SwiftMustache]

Am I the only one who don't think Teagan is being a jerk? He's angry and annoyed. Besides, why should he be nice? The inquisitor is NOT the warden, the Inquisitor never actually saved Redcliffe. No really, only the inquisition knows what really happened in the castle. 

[robertthebard]

1. What makes you assume already that a Warden conflict in the North would be a major thing?
2. Even assuming it is and, hypothetically speaking, they actually plan on making HoF a major part of it (which they most certainly won't), why should cater only to those whose HoFs have died, instead of catering only to those whose haven't? What makes the people who chose US ending more eligible to have their choice catered to with a random Warden character rather than those who chose any other ending?
Just because some HoF fans have periodically asked for their character's return, does not make their wishes any less important than your own. In fact insisting so much that the HoF not be brought back while berating the ones who are asking for him to be reintroduced in some major role for going on about it, smacks of borderline hypocrisy.
 
The reason they aren't bringing back the HoF isn't because a part of their player-base chose US, or a part chose to romance Zevran or another chose to romance Leliana or any of that. It's not even because they can be elven, dwarven or human or ever because they were an unvoiced character. It's a combination of everything.
The point being if at all some day they do manage to overcome all the other hurdles, the 'issue' that some people chose the US ending, is really going to be a non-issue, just like people killing off Oghren or Leliana hasn't mattered up till now save in the Trespasser epilogue.

...and the point soars right over your head. If they just leave the HoF alone, they're not catering to anyone, they're telling the story they want to tell. Sorry that you can't let go, but others including myself have, and not all of us had an US ending, although I did.

Some chose to redeem Loghain, some chose to kill Alistair, others got ninja'd out of the kill by Alistair, see a romanced Alistair for an explanation; he'll show up and take the killing blow. Sure, some did the DR too, but tell me, of all the possible scenarios for a surviving HoF, which one should they use? The one you took? The one Player X took? Because you can bet if they don't pick the "right" one, there's going to be an explosion on here. It's far better to just leave it alone, and use a new protagonist, there's no backstory to worry about as far as the PC goes, and yeah, there's gonna be plenty of "But it should have been the HoF" running for at least 4 years, I mean, let's look at release dates realistically here, and we still have people going on about "But it should have been the HoF". It's better to leave the people that are already mad that their Wardens aren't the most important people in Thedas any more mad than to aggravate a whole new segment of the fanbase for "doing it wrong", which for some may even mean "doing it at all".

[robertthebard]

It is other way around actually, if any Warden will do then there no harm to use HoF. Again do not force your canons on others.

That's really sound advice, I surely wish everyone would follow it, including the "But the HoF should be the hero of the next tale" crowd.

[Nixou]

we still have people going on about "But it should have been the HoF". It's better to leave the people that are already mad that their Wardens aren't the most important people in Thedas any more mad than to aggravate a whole new segment of the fanbase for "doing it wrong"

 

 

The funny thing is, this is the reason why I think Bioware writers should consider bringing back the surviving HoF... in order to kill them for good:

 

• People still complain that Thedas' history doesn't gravitate around Origins' overpowered Sue
• Writers bring back surviving HoF in the spotlight
• Writers drop a wolf-shaped anvil on HoF's head
• Point: made

[FALCONGTX]

That's really sound advice, I surely wish everyone would follow it, including the "But the HoF should be the hero of the next tale" crowd.

Again in their claims has nothing to do with your dead HoF, they what their alive HoFs be playable not your dead one be resurrected given to you without your concern and as you your self pointed: "Before you latch onto "the Orlesian Warden would fit right in"" compels even with dead ones and as "since the HoF is so easily replaced, any Warden would do" statetment goes on and you can have even completely another person. Your dead Warden stays dead where as their alive one still presented you just get another person to fill role without breaking your canon. On other side, "they can just leave the HoF alone" just because your HoF is dead is direct interference with realisation of people's canons without even reason to do so.

[robertthebard]

Again in their claims has nothing to do with your dead HoF, they what their alive HoFs be playable not your dead one be resurrected given to you without your concern and as you your self pointed: "Before you latch onto "the Orlesian Warden would fit right in"" compels even with dead ones and as "since the HoF is so easily replaced, any Warden would do" statetment goes on and you can have even completely another person. Your dead Warden stays dead where as their alive one still presented you just get another person to fill role without breaking your canon. On other side, "they can just leave the HoF alone" just because your HoF is dead is direct interference with realisation of people's canons without even reason to do so.

It boggles my mind how far people are willing to go. Here's what you're saying, in a nutshell: Hey BioWare, develop two games side by side with the same base story, but different protagonists. You see, it's not a line here and some subtext there; it's two completely different games. All dialog relevant to the 5th Blight, the last time the HoF was relevant is going to have to be written in two completely different ways. How weird is it going to be to have some random NPC asking a non-Warden PC "Hey, how did it feel to end the 5th Blight", or "Hey, how is it that everyone survived, if a Warden is supposed to die in order to kill the AD" from a Warden NPC? I know, we can't have the reality of things like development costs come in, all we can have is "I want the HoF back, so they should just give it to me". They've been pretty clear with their answer to this point; the answer was no.

This is exactly why there should have been no way out of the US ending, and why, as we can see perusing the first couple of pages of this forum now, that they should have killed off the Inquisitor too. The fact is, as you quoted me as saying: If the HoF can so easily be replaced by Random PC 568, then just use Random PC 568, and leave all those people that have either dead Wardens, or survivors that are off doing whatever with their LIs to have their head canons, instead of trying to cater to those that are unable to simply let go of the Warden.

[KaiserShep]

Just killing the protagonists one after the other to clean up the plot and keep fan suggestions to a minimum sounds very unfun. I'd much rather have people throw their complaints and suggestions into the ether than have my characters get offed for plot one after the other.

[robertthebard]

Just killing the protagonists one after the other to clean up the plot and keep fan suggestions to a minimum sounds very unfun.

It's a hell of a lot cheaper than trying to develop two games with the same story.

[Mr.House]

Just killing the protagonists one after the other to clean up the plot and keep fan suggestions to a minimum sounds very unfun.

In hindsight, the OGB has done more damage then good since it's a plot point that should be important but won't because it might never happen.

[KaiserShep]

It's a hell of a lot cheaper than trying to develop two games with the same story.

Well sure, but I don't really care about getting that other thing either, nor do I expect BioWare to devote so much to such a thing.

[Beomer]

...and the point soars right over your head. If they just leave the HoF alone, they're not catering to anyone, they're telling the story they want to tell. Sorry that you can't let go, but others including myself have, and not all of us had an US ending, although I did.

Some chose to redeem Loghain, some chose to kill Alistair, others got ninja'd out of the kill by Alistair, see a romanced Alistair for an explanation; he'll show up and take the killing blow. Sure, some did the DR too, but tell me, of all the possible scenarios for a surviving HoF, which one should they use? The one you took? The one Player X took? Because you can bet if they don't pick the "right" one, there's going to be an explosion on here. It's far better to just leave it alone, and use a new protagonist, there's no backstory to worry about as far as the PC goes, and yeah, there's gonna be plenty of "But it should have been the HoF" running for at least 4 years, I mean, let's look at release dates realistically here, and we still have people going on about "But it should have been the HoF". It's better to leave the people that are already mad that their Wardens aren't the most important people in Thedas any more mad than to aggravate a whole new segment of the fanbase for "doing it wrong", which for some may even mean "doing it at all".

 

I don't think I misunderstood as much as you failed to see my point because of your preconceived notions of what anyone who uses the words HoF and story together wants.  

It is pretty much understood that they're not bringing the HoF back. What I take issue with is your reasoning.

First of all, you still haven't said why bringing HoF back has to be a main story and not a small side quest. 

Second, your argument about US ending just helping them move the story forward is pretty much null, because as another poster said earlier, you're the one who has issues with them bringing characters back when they can be replaced with generic characters. Point being if they are to write a story about the wardens and it makes sense from a story point of view for the HoF to be back, not bringing him back due to your US ending and replacing him with a generic character would be doing the story a disservice, not moving it forward. 

Lastly is they do being the HoF back ofcourse they'll have to cater for all iterations, and I don't think anyone ever said otherswise. Infact this is probably the biggest reason why having him as an NPC won't work. 

[FALCONGTX]

It boggles my mind how far people are willing to go. Here's what you're saying, in a nutshell: Hey BioWare, develop two games side by side with the same base story, but different protagonists. You see, it's not a line here and some subtext there; it's two completely different games. All dialog relevant to the 5th Blight, the last time the HoF was relevant is going to have to be written in two completely different ways. How weird is it going to be to have some random NPC asking a non-Warden PC "Hey, how did it feel to end the 5th Blight", or "Hey, how is it that everyone survived, if a Warden is supposed to die in order to kill the AD" from a Warden NPC? I know, we can't have the reality of things like development costs come in, all we can have is "I want the HoF back, so they should just give it to me". They've been pretty clear with their answer to this point; the answer was no.

This is exactly why there should have been no way out of the US ending, and why, as we can see perusing the first couple of pages of this forum now, that they should have killed off the Inquisitor too. The fact is, as you quoted me as saying: If the HoF can so easily be replaced by Random PC 568, then just use Random PC 568, and leave all those people that have either dead Wardens, or survivors that are off doing whatever with their LIs to have their head canons, instead of trying to cater to those that are unable to simply let go of the Warden.

No offence but your argument is really narrow minded. How do you think HoF himself came to be or Inquisitor for that matter? They have different races different origin but still all this varieties people together make these PCs. Now what you basically saying is: No, no creating another PC that can be HoF won't do because there will be too many differences! - and fully ignoring that both HoF and Inquisitor were created that way. So HoF who is HN, or DE, or CE, or DN, or CD are fine with you but NewPC who HoF, or Something another, or Something another, or Something another is not - cause it is too hard to realise.*facepalm* At least this way reuse of old companions has more meaning. Funny thing that people who you oppose want consequences for their choices where you are saing: no, no - about game series that builded on choices and consequences and Game Studio who specialize on on choices and consequences. Dragon age is RPG series about choices and consequences if you don't want deal with them go play Skyrim.