110 réponses à ce sujet

[ScimitarMoon]

My poor Warden is forever alone, (Alistair dumped her mage booty to be King - nope still not over it! ) searching for a Grey Warden cure.  I would like to know how that turns out.

 

I don't understand why they just won't make a DLC staring the Warden.  Seeing the demand for more Warden, I'm sure it would sell pretty well.  It could be a fun stand alone adventure, wrapping things up nicely.  Make it about finding the cure.  Who cares if it's flippin fan-service? I wanna know how her story ends, dang it!

[KaiserShep]

First of all, you still haven't said why bringing HoF back has to be a main story and not a small side quest. 

 

If it was simply a matter of importing appearance, I'd have no problem, but to be honest, I don't particularly enjoy having to launch a CC screen to recreate my past PC. Granted, I greatly appreciate that BioWare did this, and I would never want them to just set a "canon" look and go all Revan on us, but this sort of thing is a chore that kind of stalls the game a bit when you want to get to a certain moment, making me prefer that the character simply not return. If the Inquisitor does show up in DA4 an NPC, I sincerely hope that there's some sort of import system.

[vertigomez]

My Warden's too busy babysitting his princely nephew and smooching the Divine to worry about menial things like saving the world again.

[robertthebard]

No offence but your argument is really narrow minded. How do you think HoF himself came to be or Inquisitor for that matter? They have different races different origin but still all this varieties people together make these PCs. Now what you basically saying is: No, no creating another PC that can be HoF won't do because there will be too many differences! - and fully ignoring that both HoF and Inquisitor were created that way. So HoF who is HN, or DE, or CE, or DN, or CD are fine with you but NewPC who HoF, or Something another, or Something another, or Something another is not - cause it is too hard to realise.*facepalm* At least this way reuse of old companions has more meaning. Funny thing that people who you oppose want consequences for their choices where you are saing: no, no - about game series that builded on choices and consequences and Game Studio who specialize on on choices and consequences. Dragon age is RPG series about choices and consequences if you don't want deal with them go play Skyrim. 

Here's the problem with your scenario, and I'm going to try to keep this as simple as possible:

With the Warden, we had no expectations of who that character was prior to playing it to the end. However, now that it's played out to the end, everyone has a preconceived notion of who that character is if it's appearing in another game. The same applies to Hawke and the Inquisitor. There's been backlash about Hawke's appearance in DA I, because "It wasn't my Hawke". Ironically, Hawke caught tons of flak, up until Inquisition released, then, all of a sudden, Hawke was akin to the second coming. For all the "the Inquisitor was too bland" posts peppered throughout these forums, there's at least a half dozen threads going already that the Inquisitor should be the protag of the next game.

So you see, despite your bitterness, or whatever, I am actually looking at choices. I'm looking specifically at BioWare's choices, to go with a different protag every game, and then reading here all about people that sincerely believe that the only choices that matter are their own. As I mentioned earlier, which "HoF survives" scenario is the "right" one? Yours, Player X, Y or Z? Because the DR isn't the only possibility, and you can bet, the people that told Morrigan to take a long walk on a short pier, and then let Loghain redeem himself are going to be irate if Alistair took the killing blow. If you think I'm making this **** up, take a look at the "So the OGB was nothing" thread. All kinds of people there that think their personal canon should be canon for the series.

...and we need one. We need to run with BioWare's canon for the series, a female DE who made the US to end the 5th blight. No more hassle about HoF returning, they're quite dead. No more hassle about the OGB, it doesn't exist. They attempted to wrap up Hawke's story in the slides at the end of Tresspasser, and people aren't happy. Why? Because their personal ending for Hawke wasn't the one they used. That's the problem with choices, you get to a point where there's so many of them that you can't do anything with them.

TL;DR? A new protagonist has no previous history with the players, and so, the millions of ways that a specific character can vary from another doesn't have to be accounted for. There's a difference between "I'm an Elf" and "I'm a HN" and "I'm Sara Cousland".

[Nixou]

Because the DR isn't the only possibility, and you can bet, the people that told Morrigan to take a long walk on a short pier, and then let Loghain redeem himself are going to be irate if Alistair took the killing blow

 

 

The problem is that the multiple variations of the world state do not concern only past protagonists but the whole setting: as the story progress, players' "choices" become past events and part of the setting's backstory, which in turn need to be taken into account every time they pertain to current story arcs: so every time the game will focus on Ferelden or the Grey Wardens (or both), the writers will have to deal with Alistair's multitude of potential fates, even if they don't directly bring back Origins' protagonist.

[FALCONGTX]

Here's the problem with your scenario, and I'm going to try to keep this as simple as possible:

With the Warden, we had no expectations of who that character was prior to playing it to the end. However, now that it's played out to the end, everyone has a preconceived notion of who that character is if it's appearing in another game. The same applies to Hawke and the Inquisitor. There's been backlash about Hawke's appearance in DA I, because "It wasn't my Hawke". Ironically, Hawke caught tons of flak, up until Inquisition released, then, all of a sudden, Hawke was akin to the second coming. For all the "the Inquisitor was too bland" posts peppered throughout these forums, there's at least a half dozen threads going already that the Inquisitor should be the protag of the next game.

So you see, despite your bitterness, or whatever, I am actually looking at choices. I'm looking specifically at BioWare's choices, to go with a different protag every game, and then reading here all about people that sincerely believe that the only choices that matter are their own. As I mentioned earlier, which "HoF survives" scenario is the "right" one? Yours, Player X, Y or Z? Because the DR isn't the only possibility, and you can bet, the people that told Morrigan to take a long walk on a short pier, and then let Loghain redeem himself are going to be irate if Alistair took the killing blow. If you think I'm making this **** up, take a look at the "So the OGB was nothing" thread. All kinds of people there that think their personal canon should be canon for the series.

...and we need one. We need to run with BioWare's canon for the series, a female DE who made the US to end the 5th blight. No more hassle about HoF returning, they're quite dead. No more hassle about the OGB, it doesn't exist. They attempted to wrap up Hawke's story in the slides at the end of Tresspasser, and people aren't happy. Why? Because their personal ending for Hawke wasn't the one they used. That's the problem with choices, you get to a point where there's so many of them that you can't do anything with them.

TL;DR? A new protagonist has no previous history with the players, and so, the millions of ways that a specific character can vary from another doesn't have to be accounted for. There's a difference between "I'm an Elf" and "I'm a HN" and "I'm Sara Cousland".

 

This is not even argument considering past DA series - you are implying that HoF is not playable anymore because (s)he has history that can be specific to every player. Do you understand that's whole point DA game, by your logic Alistair, Leliana, Morrigan and pretty much every single char of DA should no appear anymore cause there using your exaggeration "the millions of ways that a specific character can vary from another" Then again you didn't bring up any argument why it is applicable to NPCs but applicable to PCs - considering one major difference is CC needed for PC? 

 

Now about Hawke - issue with is not that he appeared in game but that it was poorly executed. This game has tapestry wich accounted all valuable choised directly or indirectly still Hawke ignore them and acted like there was only one way play the game - that's solely GameDev fault that lived there.

 

And there was already topic about Bioware canon, it is used for avoid inconsistency in books and comics(plot anchor) - they said that this canon will have no effect to players who has their own world states, and if you don't have them(world states) then just don't care. That's what D.G. though i don't remember name of topic(it was something about canon in name).

[robertthebard]

This is not even argument considering past DA series - you are implying that HoF is not playable anymore because (s)he has history that can be specific to every player. Do you understand that's whole point DA game

This right here is exactly why they can't reuse the Warden, and I explained it in the post you want to just dismiss: the players have a preconceived notion of who the HoF is, and there's no way that BioWare can meet every single one of those expectations.

, by your logic Alistair, Leliana, Morrigan and pretty much every single char of DA should no appear anymore cause there using your exaggeration "the millions of ways that a specific character can vary from another" Then again you didn't bring up any argument why it is applicable to NPCs but applicable to PCs - considering one major difference is CC needed for PC? 
 
Now about Hawke - issue with is not that he appeared in game but that it was poorly executed. This game has tapestry wich accounted all valuable choised directly or indirectly still Hawke ignore them and acted like there was only one way play the game - that's solely GameDev fault that lived there.

You dismiss my post in one breath, and then in the very next paragraph, confirm exactly what I said. So, um, thanks, I guess?
 

And there was already topic about Bioware canon, it is used for avoid inconsistency in books and comics(plot anchor) - they said that this canon will have no effect to players who has their own world states, and if you don't have them(world states) then just don't care. That's what D.G. though i don't remember name of topic(it was something about canon in name).

...and that's great, so long as we don't have a returning protagonist. As I said, and you confirmed, the issue isn't appearing as much as how they're presented, and no matter how they present them, it's going to be wrong for someone. The very act of presenting them as a protagonist is wrong for some people, because they chose the US, and the HoF is dead. The pet "argument" is "just replace them with the Orlesian Warden". My counter to that is, and always has been "if they're so easily replaced, leave them alone and generate a new protagonist".

[FALCONGTX]

This right here is exactly why they can't reuse the Warden, and I explained it in the post you want to just dismiss: the players have a preconceived notion of who the HoF is, and there's no way that BioWare can meet every single one of those expectations.

*Facepalm*Major quality of series makes char affected by it unplayeble for not particular reason, Bioware don't meet any expectations if they giving HoF as PC and they need to have content/work not bigger than Leliana's Song DLC to meet everyone expectations if HoF is NPC.

 

 

You dismiss my post in one breath, and then in the very next paragraph, confirm exactly what I said. So, um, thanks, I guess?
 

So insted of proving your-self you are using evulise tactics now? I thought so.

 

 

...and that's great, so long as we don't have a returning protagonist. As I said, and you confirmed, the issue isn't appearing as much as how they're presented, and no matter how they present them, it's going to be wrong for someone. The very act of presenting them as a protagonist is wrong for some people, because they chose the US, and the HoF is dead. The pet "argument" is "just replace them with the Orlesian Warden". My counter to that is, and always has been "if they're so easily replaced, leave them alone and generate a new protagonist".

 

Chose what? They using most neutral canon possible, for game production reasons. What do you mean by "US"? The "US" of you is minority, Bioware never outright said that they will never bring up HoF, considering that this PC still most popular one from DA series that will be dumbest move to take. This whole you argument sounds like you more wanna convince your self than me. - Just whishful thinking.

[Nixou]

This right here is exactly why they can't reuse the Warden, and I explained it in the post you want to just dismiss: the players have a preconceived notion of who the HoF is, and there's no way that BioWare can meet every single one of those expectations.

 

 

The question is... Why should Bioware pander to players' preconceived notions?

Yeah, some people were pissed at Hawke's behavior, saying that their Hawke would never do and say such and such. But five or six years passed between the battle with Meredith and Hawke showing up at Skyhold.

The writers' job is to write a coherent story: Hawke being different after years on the run is not a plot hole.

 

The same thing can be said about NPCs for that matter: if the writers decide to turn Teagan into a jerk, make Morrigan more amiable, Cullen smarter, Fiona less of an angry firebrand, it's their prerogative to do so. If anything, it make the setting more interesting by showing its denizen changing over time instead of remaining archetypes set in stone.

[robertthebard]

The question is... Why should Bioware pander to players' preconceived notions?
Yeah, some people were pissed at Hawke's behavior, saying that their Hawke would never do and say such and such. But five or six years passed between the battle with Meredith and Hawke showing up at Skyhold.
The writers' job is to write a coherent story: Hawke being different after years on the run is not a plot hole.
 
The same thing can be said about NPCs for that matter: if the writers decide to turn Teagan into a jerk, make Morrigan more amiable, Cullen smarter, Fiona less of an angry firebrand, it's their prerogative to do so. If anything, it make the setting more interesting by showing its denizen changing over time instead of remaining archetypes set in stone.

The better question is: Why mess with bringing the Warden back at all?

[Red of Rivia]

If the Warden got the cure, we will know in the next game for a codex or a chracter comment. I'm pretty sure the next game will be a few years after the end of DAI, so the Warden is even more irrelevant. This character does not belong to us anymore. The cure will reflect in the next games, but not with the Warden. And it's okay, hopefully we will see the Inquisitor again.