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[ModernAcademic]

As human, Cole learns more about the people he's so fascinated with, and in a better way: through experience by living amongst them,

 

Emotions play a huge role in a person's growth. Human interactions teach what mere observation and intellectual knowledge cannot. As a spirit, his ability to help people is limited by his lack of understanding about human nature. As a human, he never loses his powers, and learns from his mistakes, constantly improving his resources as to how to best help others.

 

 

It's as Varric said: he did that to himself when he crossed to our world. He wanted to understand humans, and perhaps deep down was the desire to mingle with them. Why else would a spirit risk his safety -and possibly forfeit his chance to go back to the Fade - in such a drastic manner?

[TammieAZ]

Yes I made Cole a real boy so he hooks up with the Bard.  But I think it is far more cute to have Krem and her hook up. 

 

 Why? 

[tanuki]

So... if Chargers are dead and Cole is a spirit, does Maryden stay alone or hooks up with someone else?

[Drasanil]

So... if Chargers are dead and Cole is a spirit, does Maryden stay alone or hooks up with someone else?

 

ZITHER!

 

The best outcome, really

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

I'd never make him human.  Being human means he can't do as much good for people, he has to re-learn how to live, and he will eventually die.  He seems happy enough as a human, but I just couldn't bring myself to give him the pain that comes along with emotion along with the joy.

I don't see why he'd eventually die. He's still a spirit. He just becomes more human/mortal like in thinking, world view, and behavior. Honestly, I chose spirit at first, but then Cole makes himself forget "Cole" and he loses a part of himself there that I just was NOT ok with. 

 

Not sure I'm totally on board with Cole having a girlfriend, but that might be more along the lines of "no one will ever be good enough for my baby" kinda feels than anything else. lol

 

 

As human, Cole learns more about the people he's so fascinated with, and in a better way: through experience by living amongst them,

 

Emotions play a huge role in a person's growth. Human interactions teach what mere observation and intellectual knowledge cannot. As a spirit, his ability to help people is limited by his lack of understanding about human nature. As a human, he never loses his powers, and learns from his mistakes, constantly improving his resources as to how to best help others.

 

 

It's as Varric said: he did that to himself when he crossed to our world. He wanted to understand humans, and perhaps deep down was the desire to mingle with them. Why else would a spirit risk his safety -and possibly forfeit his chance to go back to the Fade - in such a drastic manner?

Yeah I agree with this, basically.  

 

Also, I picked up on the fact that Cole's quest was also really about the debate btwn Varric and Solas of "what determines someone's identity". While Solas seemed to think you couldn't be something more than what you started as, Varric thought you could by change and growth. Which is pretty much their world views in a nutshell: holding on to what was vs forging ahead. Its also a conflict present in their banter. And I'm with Varric, so... humanized Cole it is.

[Mr.House]

So... if Chargers are dead and Cole is a spirit, does Maryden stay alone or hooks up with someone else?

She gets with based ZITHER.

[EdwinLi]

Spoiler

If there is one thing Spirit Cole missed up it was forgetting his love for hats and leaving behind his favorite hat.

[JasonPogo]

 Why? 

 

Personal opinion.  I love Krem and was happy to see him get some love.
 

[Korva]

As much as I'm bitter and shocked about Solas, I still appreciate what he taught me about spirits. Both he and Varric are selfish in their argument about Cole because they both have such a strong preference for opposite "sides" of him -- nevermind incredibly rude to have that argument like he's not even there. Still, Varric annoyed me with the way he's talking out of his rear, basically, and especially with the "could have been a person" line. Cole is a person, a individual, a sentient being. He can and does learn, and while he will never grasp some things, it doesn't make him less worthy of respect ... or deserving of being told he can't fully embrace his purpose and be happy that way. He doesn't have to be more human to have value. Understanding a spirit is a greater challenge, but a worthwhile one, and it feels like meeting him halfway in his search to find his place instead of expecting him to do all the work.

 

While the more-human path gains more first-hand understanding, the more-spirit path sends his empathy and insight through the roof. Both are better and more whole than what he was before, but both come with the cost of weakening the "other side". Bittersweet.

 

I just love the quiet transformation, mercy and release of the spirit-side cutscene. It's incredibly touching, one of my favourite moments in the game. Originally, I chose it because I agreed with Solas. Now I stand by the choice because I still agree, but also out of anger and defiance of his refusal to accept what he helped my Inquisitor to understand: what is different or even alien is not less, it is not worthless. I really wish it was possible to throw that in his face.

[actionhero112]

If Cole becomes human, he finds love. He wouldn't be able to do so if he became a spirit.

 

That clinched it for me. After seeing Cole in his relationship, I don't think I could make him more of a spirit and deprive him of that happiness. 

[Ryzaki]

I just did spirit cole and got that last scene where he pretty much wipes himself clean.

 

I'm never doing this crap again. Spirit Cole is garbage.

[dragondreamer]

I've always had a preference for spirit!Cole (my canon), and Trespasser just made me happier with the decision.  One of my favorite scenes in Trespasser is the Cole banter after learning more about the original nature of the elves and spirits in the pre-veil world.  He's so overjoyed to learn that there's nothing wrong about him, that he's perfectly natural the way he is.  I just wanted to hug him there.  (Headcanon mama Lavellan totally did.)

 

Krem/Maryden was a very nice bonus, I got a big kick out of that.

[Giantdeathrobot]

If Cole becomes human, he finds love. He wouldn't be able to do so if he became a spirit.

 

That clinched it for me. After seeing Cole in his relationship, I don't think I could make him more of a spirit and deprive him of that happiness. 

 

Keep in mind that as a spirit, he doesn't have the same needs as a human. He might actually get more fulfillment from playing the wingman and having people hook up than experiencing those feelings himself since he probably doesn't have any need or desire to.

 

Also I think my favorite scene is still Maryden and ZITHER. I love how Cole puts it, that it's a mistake, but one the Maryden will enjoy. Basically that this guy is good for one night. And that's probably a highly accurate statement.

[Arshei]

If Cole becomes human, he finds love. He wouldn't be able to do so if he became a spirit.

 

That clinched it for me. After seeing Cole in his relationship, I don't think I could make him more of a spirit and deprive him of that happiness. 

 

Cole is happy helping people too, if you think love = happiness, Disney wash your brain

[actionhero112]

Keep in mind that as a spirit, he doesn't have the same needs as a human. He might actually get more fulfillment from playing the wingman and having people hook up than experiencing those feelings himself since he probably doesn't have any need or desire to.

 

 

 

Yeah and the Tranquil can get fulfillment from enchanting my weapons. They don't need emotions either. 

That's what you've done to Cole. You've stripped him of ever having the possibility to feel, to be alive.

 

It's cruelty in my view. But have it your way. 

[Giantdeathrobot]

Yeah and the Tranquil can get fulfillment from enchanting my weapons. They don't need emotions either. 

That's what you've done to Cole. You've stripped him of ever having the possibility to feel, to be alive.

 

It's cruelty in my view. But have it your way. 

 

Ok, first no need for the hostile tone, this is a video game forum. I didn't actually brainwash someone IRL.

 

Second, Tranquils aren't born this way. They are forcefully made into what they are, that is the monstrosity here. Spirits are created as manifestations of mortal emotions, Compassion in Cole's case. It's in him to be selfless at every opportunity and help people. It's what he likes to do, it's what he wants to do. His need to help is so strong he could empathize with Corypheus.

 

Solas says it clearly; spirits aren't humans. You can't judge them by the same metrics. They have singular purposes and enjoy fulfilling those purposes. And they weren't forced into this state; those that do become demons.

 

As such, it is not cruelty to entertain the possibility that a walking, talking embodiement of selflessness and compassion would prefer to help others form emotional bonds. And given that, well, this is precisely what happens in the actual game, I have a feeling there is little ''cruelty'' in letting Cole do what he wants in accordance with his nature.

[leaguer of one]

ZITHER!

 

The best outcome, really

...But you have to kill the Iron Bull.

[Lord Bolton]

...But you have to kill the Iron Bull.

It's no problem for me   

[Korva]

That's what you've done to Cole. You've stripped him of ever having the possibility to feel, to be alive.

 

Eh. See, this is exactly the sort of humanocentric, "like me = good, unlike me = bad" attitude that I deliberately want to turn my back on by trying to understand, accept and cherish Cole's spirit-side (and through him, other spirits). He feels. He thinks. Differently, but not wrong. He is not less for that, just as a mortal isn't less for not having a spirit's insights and perceptions.

 

I just did spirit cole and got that last scene where he pretty much wipes himself clean.

 

I'm never doing this crap again. Spirit Cole is garbage.

 

Untrue. He is still the same person, all he does is allow himself much the same of what he did for the templar: forgiveness for his failure and release from a pain too great to bear. That is his right. Again, because it isn't something some of us would do doesn't mean it's wrong for him. And as attached to the name "Cole" as I am, I wouldn't have minded the chance to offer to call him Compassion rather than keep using the human name just because it's familiar to and convenient for us.

 

Still, they did drop the ball on that scene ... by making Inquisitor walk out like she doesn't give a toss about this weirdo. It's totally out of character, and by denying them a quiet moment together, the writers do give the false impression that something just went quite wrong. The way a cutscene ends influences its whole "feel" and atmosphere, and they messed this one up completely. Most of the best scenes, whether sad or happy, have those quiet bonding moments in the end. Hell, if anything they are more important for the somber scenes to show that the characters are there for each other no matter what, not just when it's all sunshine and rainbows.

 

Personal opinion.  I love Krem and was happy to see him get some love.

 

Same. Maryden's sudden "importance" is rather random -- and after her war table mission I still have a hard time believing she's supposed to be all sweet and kind. But eh, for Krem's sake I'll accept it.

[Ryzaki]

Untrue. He is still the same person, all he does is allow himself much the same of what he did for the templar: forgiveness for his failure and release from a pain too great to bear. That is his right. Again, because it isn't something some of us would do doesn't mean it's wrong for him. And as attached to the name "Cole" as I am, I wouldn't have minded the chance to offer to call him Compassion rather than keep using the human name just because it's familiar to and convenient for us.

 

Still, they did drop the ball on that scene ... by making Inquisitor walk out like she doesn't give a toss about this weirdo. It's totally out of character, and by denying them a quiet moment together, the writers do give the false impression that something just went quite wrong. The way a cutscene ends influences its whole "feel" and atmosphere, and they messed this one up completely. Most of the best scenes, whether sad or happy, have those quiet bonding moments in the end. Hell, if anything they are more important for the somber scenes to show that the characters are there for each other no matter what, not just when it's all sunshine and rainbows.

 

Cole isn't a person in the spirit route. That's kind of the whole point of that route. He bleaches the budding human part of himself and you're right it was his right. Doesn't make it any less creepy or make him any less un human as a result.Though yeah I agree we should've been able to stop calling that thing Cole.

[Drasanil]

...But you have to kill the Iron Bull.

 

That's part of why it is the best outcome

[Arakat]

If Cole becomes human, he finds love. He wouldn't be able to do so if he became a spirit.

 

That clinched it for me. After seeing Cole in his relationship, I don't think I could make him more of a spirit and deprive him of that happiness. 

 

Eh, romantic love is only one of the many, many ways to achieve happiness.

[Korva]

Eh, romantic love is only one of the many, many ways to achieve happiness.

 

Seriously. The automatic equation of human = sex/romance = happiness is unpleasant.

 

Cole isn't a person in the spirit route. That's kind of the whole point of that route. He bleaches the budding human part of himself and you're right it was his right. Doesn't make it any less creepy or make him any less un human as a result.Though yeah I agree we should've been able to stop calling that thing Cole.

 

How on Earth is he NOT a person -- and not only that, a person who embodies much of what is best about us? He is a sentient, self-aware, articulate individual. Equating "personhood" with "human like me" or at least with "like what i want" is an attitude that causes untold harm and ends up with monstrosities like Corypheus and Solas on the extreme end.

[Ryzaki]

How on Earth is he NOT a person -- and not only that, a person who embodies much of what is best about us? He is a sentient, self-aware, articulate individual. Equating "personhood" with "human like me" or at least with "like what i want" is an attitude that causes untold harm and ends up with monstrosities like Corypheus and Solas on the extreme end.

 

He's not a person because he's a mind reading fade spirit. Duh. Compassion does not a human make. My dog showed freaking compassion and I wouldn't claim it was a person anymore than I would claim spirit cole was.

[actionhero112]

Ok, first no need for the hostile tone, this is a video game forum. I didn't actually brainwash someone IRL.

 

Not being hostile towards you, just expressing my viewpoint and how I view your decision. If you think it is hostile, then it is a reflection of how hostile I feel your decision is. 

 

 

Second, Tranquils aren't born this way. They are forcefully made into what they are, that is the monstrosity here. Spirits are created as manifestations of mortal emotions, Compassion in Cole's case. It's in him to be selfless at every opportunity and help people. It's what he likes to do, it's what he wants to do. His need to help is so strong he could empathize with Corypheus.

 

And you're making the decision for Cole to become more spirit like than human, something he expressly tells you he doesn't want. He clearly sets out on the path to kill that man, and you interfere with that. I don't see the difference between you making the decision for cole to reject his humanity and the templars severing emotions from a mage. You're both destroying their identities as entities. Cole is now, as you say, just the embodiment of an emotion. He cannot love, because he is only compassion. He cannot be angry, because he is only compassion. He cannot be happy, because he is only compassion.

 

 

 

 

Solas says it clearly; spirits aren't humans. You can't judge them by the same metrics. They have singular purposes and enjoy fulfilling those purposes. And they weren't forced into this state; those that do become demons.

 

 

And yet Solas could not bind Cole, which says more about how little Solas actually knows about the nature of spirits. What really matters here is Cole's will. Not how Solas defines Cole. And he wanted to kill that man. He made the decision, and you make Solas interfere with that. 

 

Ask yourself if Cole actually enjoys the possibility of being bound. He doesn't. 

 

 

 

As such, it is not cruelty to entertain the possibility that a walking, talking embodiement of selflessness and compassion would prefer to help others form emotional bonds. And given that, well, this is precisely what happens in the actual game, I have a feeling there is little ''cruelty'' in letting Cole do what he wants in accordance with his nature.

 

Cole is not a spirit of compassion at that point in the game. It's why Solas cannot bind him, because he has "special qualities" that prevent him from doing so. 

I've gone over this previously in this post, but you've already perverted Cole's will by not letting him kill that man. By not respecting that decision, you've taken agency away from him. So you're not actually letting Cole do what he wants. You're deciding who he is for him.