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[FALCONGTX]

Now ignoring for moment that poor Cole remained as spirit for sake of some ship, i say Maryden is better off with Sera(if not romanced), for Krem i think most suited one is Maevaris, she and he has much in comon - like they meant to be together, both tevs(meh) and both literally asble to understand each other situation better than any other.

[BansheeOwnage]

Sera gets with Dagna. Another couple I didn't see coming at the end.

Yeah, that was surprising. It makes me wish Dagna was a romance option instead of Sera, too

[daveliam]

What are you even talking about?

 

It's not worth it, Banshee.  Obvious troll is obvious.

[FALCONGTX]

Sera gets with Dagna. Another couple I didn't see coming at the end.

Really? Well still it would be better if Krem ending up with someone other than Maryden from Skyhold denizens i say then that Templar from Heaven still suited more for Krem.
Ps. Is there any way to "human" Cole to not end up with Maryden?

[BansheeOwnage]

It's not worth it, Banshee.  Obvious troll is obvious.

You're right, I don't know why I bothered.

[Drasanil]

Krem is biologically a woman and so is Maryden, but what people don't get is Krem is NOT a woman. Krem is a man and that's that!

 

Well you know except for lacking all the relevant bits. When you get right down to it on a practical level it still is a lesbian relationship. 

[BansheeOwnage]

Well you know except for lacking all the relevant bits. When you get right down to it on a practical level it still is a lesbian relationship. 

No. You can have a lesbian relationship with no sex at all and it's still a lesbian relationship. Or a straight one, etc. That's not where the descriptor comes in.

[Korva]

I always thought she meant she'd scare the noble with the threats, but I admit I could be completely wrong.

 

That would make more sense, but she does send her people to scare the refugees into leaving. I know we're seeing "spymaster Leliana" at work here for the first time, and she later reveals that she did a lot of ugly things for Justinia, but ... this probably tops the things that are way out of line, nonetheless.

 

And Leliana is definitely Jekyll and Hyde. One mission, she doesn't want to even kill varghests and instead relocate them (which unfortunately resulted in your soldiers dying), and the next, let's cut out some bard's tongue or assassinate some farmer. But she's always been like that, so I'm not as bothered as when Cullen is out of character.

 

It's really extreme in this game, though, which is one reason why I feel uncomfortable at the thought of her possibly becoming Divine. If her only predictable trait is unpredictability ... that's both a recipe for disaster and a sign of a character who didn't have enough thought put into her. Addressing her Jekyll/Hyde-ness directly (instead of having two early-game choices set in stone how she will turn out) should be as crucial to her character arc as for example Cullen's lyrium addiction is for his.

 

On-topic: I'm always a it conflicted about Cole. I like his "human" path overall, but some parts of it bug me, like people saying he's a "person" now, or even himself saying he's more "real". But maybe he just meant real as in material? Because he comes from the immaterial?

 

Possibly. He's stuck here now, more connected to the physical world and less to the Fade, and some his powers have disappeared or dulled, so he more closely resembles what people here consider "real". I do wish it was possible to discuss concepts like "person" and "real" with him as we can with Solas, and if necessary gently challenge the way he at times does not think very much of himself. Not having an ego is good, saying "I don't matter" is not. His history and past mistakes shook him up so badly that I always thought he needs friends who explicitly help build some confidence in himself by assuring him that he is not wrong ... regardless of where the outcome of his quest takes him. The game has some elements of that, especially from Solas, but it's lacking in his talks with the Inquisitor.

 

I'm also not sure exactly how I feel about Maryden, but I think I'd like it if he could take the human path and have Krem get with her instead.

 

I think that would be more fitting yes. The unpleasant in-your-face equation of "human" with "romance" aside, Cole has always enjoyed nudging and seeing people together if it makes them happy. Still, IMO this should never have been his only scene at all. If it was one of several, maybe, but this was supposed to be a reunion with very dear friends, and this scene has none of that (be it more-spirit or more-human) because Cole and the Inquisitor basically don't interact at all. I really don't get why Cole alone of all the companions/advisors gets this treatment.

 

No one deserves to be submitted to Maryden. That voice, that ham, that disgustingly obvious metered speech she has.

 

She does sound totally different in Trespasser, doesn't she? Her sudden changes and make it feel like they shoehorned a "romance" in just for the sake of having one, and that is never a good idea.

[fhs33721]

Well you know except for lacking all the relevant bits. When you get right down to it on a practical level it still is a lesbian relationship. 

More like a straight relationship but with (technically) lesbian intercourse if you really want to be nitpicking about this.

[Qun00]

It's not like a relationship between Cole and Maryden can't be adorable.

Well you know except for lacking all the relevant bits. When you get right down to it on a practical level it still is a lesbian relationship.

Sounds about right.

I like people with a practical and realistic view of things.

[BansheeOwnage]

It's really extreme in this game, though, which is one reason why I feel uncomfortable at the thought of her possibly becoming Divine. If her only predictable trait is unpredictability ... that's both a recipe for disaster and a sign of a character who didn't have enough thought put into her. Addressing her Jekyll/Hyde-ness directly (instead of having two early-game choices set in stone how she will turn out) should be as crucial to her character arc as for example Cullen's lyrium addiction is for his.

I agree. I really didn't like the way her personal quest was handled. My first Inquisitor, being inquisitive, asked for more information about the situation before telling her she should or should not kill the traitor. Why wouldn't she do that? And it ended up making her disobey a direct order and kill the sister (something that makes me immensely annoyed with, especially because she can do it multiple times and you can't even call her out on it better yet discipline her). That was also one of the most disturbing scenes in the game for me. Well, probably the most disturbing. Now I am forced not to ask for more information and look like an idiot with all future Inquisitors just so she doesn't run around killing people for almost nothing. And I'm not okay with that.

 

Naturally I tried to make Cassandra divine over her because of that unpredictability, though the changes Leliana makes to the chantry are very tempting.

 

Possibly. He's stuck here now, more connected to the physical world and less to the Fade, and some his powers have disappeared or dulled, so he more closely resembles what people here consider "real". I do wish it was possible to discuss concepts like "person" and "real" with him as we can with Solas, and if necessary gently challenge the way he at times does not think very much of himself. Not having an ego is good, saying "I don't matter" is not. His history and past mistakes shook him up so badly that I always thought he needs friends who explicitly help build some confidence in himself by assuring him that he is not wrong ... regardless of where the outcome of his quest takes him. The game has some elements of that, especially from Solas, but it's lacking in his talks with the Inquisitor.

That would have been very nice to discuss with him. I also want to be able to tell him that I didn't encourage the human path because I value humans more or because I think it makes him more of a person. And I don't like it when games assume your reasons for doing something, not that it necessarily did in this case. I didn't feel like I could adequately express how much I valued Cole as a friend and a person.

 

I think that would be more fitting yes. The unpleasant in-your-face equation of "human" with "romance" aside, Cole has always enjoyed nudging and seeing people together if it makes them happy. Still, IMO this should never have been his only scene at all. If it was one of several, maybe, but this was supposed to be a reunion with very dear friends, and this scene has none of that (be it more-spirit or more-human) because Cole and the Inquisitor basically don't interact at all. I really don't get why Cole alone of all the companions/advisors gets this treatment.

The bolded part was unfortunately my first thought too. Of course, I can't be sure that that was their intention, but it still rubs me the wrong way. Like EDI in Mass Effect. I don't like the way media often implies that people lack something that makes them "complete" (in a similar way to Solas thinking we lack something) if they aren't interested in sex or even romantic love. And I say that as someone to whom romance is extremely important to personally.

 

I also agree that it's disappointing that since each companion only got a single scene, Cole's wasn't about his relationship with the Inquisitor. I was really waiting for that Hug Cole DLC I also wish everyone got a couple of scenes, since some were almost exclusively about what they did in the last two years while others were strictly about the present or future.

 

She does sound totally different in Trespasser, doesn't she? Her sudden changes and make it feel like they shoehorned a "romance" in just for the sake of having one, and that is never a good idea.

Yeah, it's weird when something is ending and its writers basically decide that everyone needs to get with someone else. Not that they did that for nearly everyone in this case, but I just thought Maryden+Cole/Krem/Zither! and Sera+Dagna came out of nowhere, since neither couple ever interacts beforehand in any way.

[myahele]

While I liked Meryden x Krem, it was a bit too hand-wavy to me. I would have prefered it Cole said that meryden always knew or something like that. It was a bit too "perfect"

 

Cole's explanation was pretty vague; was he talking about Krem? Meryden? I suppose it leaves it open for interpretation. 

 

Anyways, there's a lot of pair the spares going on

[ZombiePopper]

The clincher for me was the ending slide of trespasser;
Cole and Maryden traveling the road together helping people in their own ways.

Whereas with a spirit cole he just slips back into the fade-gone.

[Ryzaki]

Yeah that also made me want human cole.

 

I'll miss the foreplay conversation with Bull but human Cole is just better.

[dragondreamer]

The clincher for me was the ending slide of trespasser;
Cole and Maryden traveling the road together helping people in their own ways.

Whereas with a spirit cole he just slips back into the fade-gone.

 

Spirit Cole still helps people from the Fade (where he says he'll be most needed).  He also promises to return if he's needed on the physical side.

[Qun00]

Sera gets with Dagna. Another couple I didn't see coming at the end.

No? They're a lot alike.

[ZombiePopper]

Spirit Cole still helps people from the Fade (where he says he'll be most needed). He also promises to return if he's needed on the physical side.

True,
But I can't help wondering that IF he does return, how will his time in the fade alter him?
Anytime we have spirits in the fade they have the tendency to change. So Cole could even come back as a full-on demon (extreme of course).
But these are just the thoughts bouncing around in my noggin...
But there's no wrong choice with Cole, pick the one you prefer, or flip a coin.

[dragondreamer]

True,
But I can't help wondering that IF he does return, how will his time in the fade alter him?
Anytime we have spirits in the fade they have the tendency to change. So Cole could even come back as a full-on demon (extreme of course).
But these are just the thoughts bouncing around in my noggin...
But there's no wrong choice with Cole, pick the one you prefer, or flip a coin.

 

Maybe.  Spirits and humans can both change.  It's also possible that a human Cole could become a horrible, evil person under the influence of the physical world.  But I think sometimes we place too much importance on the decision we make.  Whether Cole is human or spirit flavored, from that point onward, he makes his own life decisions.  It may be that someday human Cole will revert to spirit, or a spirit Cole may become more human on his own.  But for now, either way, he's happy, and recognizably himself, whether he calls himself Cole or Compassion.

[Reznore57]

I agree but we should have seen something hinted at her interest. Cole and Maryden make sense because he spent 2 years above her, listening to her sing. Sera was never anywhere near Dagna. Krem also makes sense with Maryden because he was right near her in the tavern for 2 years too.

 

You can read in Sera diary at Skyhold, her and Dagna got together around Corypheus death , they were already a couple in DAI.

[Korva]

And it ended up making her disobey a direct order and kill the sister (something that makes me immensely annoyed with, especially because she can do it multiple times and you can't even call her out on it better yet discipline her). That was also one of the most disturbing scenes in the game for me. Well, probably the most disturbing. Now I am forced not to ask for more information and look like an idiot with all future Inquisitors just so she doesn't run around killing people for almost nothing. And I'm not okay with that.

 

Spot-on again. It's one thing to have choices and actions influence an NPC's decisions over the course of the game -- that does feel more natural than having it all hinge on a singular moment. But Leliana's quest is pretty much a case study in how not to handle such a development. And yes, the way she ignored a direct order and gets away with it is absolutely not okay.

 

Naturally I tried to make Cassandra divine over her because of that unpredictability, though the changes Leliana makes to the chantry are very tempting.

 

I think the devs sold Cass' desire for reforms a little short. She just sits in the middle ground between the other two, who are allowed stronger agendas, despite the fact that she repeatedly speaks about the importance of truth and about how the Chantry needs changes because it failed where it was needed the most and by excluding people.

 

And I don't like it when games assume your reasons for doing something, not that it necessarily did in this case. I didn't feel like I could adequately express how much I valued Cole as a friend and a person.

 

Likewise. It's rare we really get to do that with anyone, but Cole with his unique circumstances could probably do with affirmation more than most, regardless of where he is on his journey. And yes, the assumptions ... I was annoyed that the companions treated keeping the Wardens around as if we were welcoming them as allies who hadn't really done wrong, for example, with no option to explain why we keep them around.

 

The bolded part was unfortunately my first thought too. Of course, I can't be sure that that was their intention, but it still rubs me the wrong way. Like EDI in Mass Effect. I don't like the way media often implies that people lack something that makes them "complete" (in a similar way to Solas thinking we lack something) if they aren't interested in sex or even romantic love. And I say that as someone to whom romance is extremely important to personally.

 

Thank you. It's always reassuring when someone on the outside of the matter sees and understands it too. I heard about EDI, though I never could get into ME myself, and it sounds like they handled that rather badly too.

 

I also agree that it's disappointing that since each companion only got a single scene, Cole's wasn't about his relationship with the Inquisitor. I was really waiting for that Hug Cole DLC I also wish everyone got a couple of scenes, since some were almost exclusively about what they did in the last two years while others were strictly about the present or future.

 

Agreed. Lots of wasted potential, especially for Cole and his bond with the Inquisitor. The dinner cutscene is brilliant for both outcomes of his quest, I was really craving something like that again.

 

Yeah, it's weird when things are ending and its writers basically decide that everyone needs to get with someone else. Not that they did that for nearly everyone in this case, but I just thought Maryden+Cole/Krem/Zither! and Sera+Dagna came out of nowhere, since neither couple ever interacts beforehand in any way.

I wish they had focused more on the existing friendships instead. The companions had lots of unique and sometimes very close bonds with each other that could have been revisited. And I'll always be bitter that staying together as friends is something that rarely seems to cross the writers' minds.

 

While I liked Meryden x Krem, it was a bit too hand-wavy to me. I would have prefered it Cole said that meryden always knew or something like that. It was a bit too "perfect"

 

Agreed. I like it (issues with Maryden's characterization aside), but it needed development instead of being just a random romance for the sake of having a random romance. As for Maryden knowing, I think it would have made sense for her to have figured it out after all this time yes.

Cole's explanation was pretty vague; was he talking about Krem? Meryden? I suppose it leaves it open for interpretation.

 

He does his lovely little chuckle and says "both", which I read as "they will be just fine with each other" regardless of what secrets each of them reveals.

[dragondreamer]

If you look at Sera's little note list by her place in the tavern, she gets excited when Dagna first shows up.  And in Trespasser, she's still talking about her in her notes, and it sounds like they do know each other well.  (Sera is sketching her.)  We never see them together, but it's implied.