Guest_Raynah_*
You can read in Sera diary at Skyhold, her and Dagna got together around Corypheus death , they were already a couple in DAI.
Eh... still seems so sudden to me when it's just in a codex. They are so damn cute together, I would have liked to see them or hear about it in banter, not a random read. We can see Bull and Dorian hook up and Josie being courted by Blackwall for a bit too. That would have been the cutest!
Spirit Cole still helps people from the Fade (where he says he'll be most needed). He also promises to return if he's needed on the physical side.
As sad as all the epilogues make me because of that damned "everyone leaves you", I think this epilogue is actually one of the better ones because at least he acknowledges his friends ... and because I think it also refers to whatever Solas is planning. Most everyone else just blithely moves on as if the world wasn't about to end again, and as if they never had any ties to the Inquisitor or each other.
Maybe. Spirits and humans can both change. It's also possible that a human Cole could become a horrible, evil person under the influence of the physical world.
That is something that tends to get overlooked when people bring up all the ways more-spirit-Cole could go badly, yes: that the same applies to more-human-Cole as well. It's easier to fear change in something we don't like or understand as much as something that is more like us.
But for now, either way, he's happy, and recognizably himself, whether he calls himself Cole or Compassion.
Well said.
As sad as all the epilogues make me because of that damned "everyone leaves you", I think this epilogue is actually one of the better ones because at least he acknowledges his friends ... and because I think it also refers to whatever Solas is planning. Most everyone else just blithely moves on as if the world wasn't about to end again, and as if they never had any ties to the Inquisitor or each other.
I also like to headcanon that a mage pc can still communicate with Cole whenever they like, as mages can with any spirit they have a relationship with. 
As for the others, I got the feeling, especially from the post-slides scene, that the separation is mostly for appearances. They're still working together to go after Solas, whether done under the Inquisition banner or not. But going directly against Solas is going to require "new people".
As for the others, I got the feeling, especially from the post-slides scene, that the separation is mostly for appearances. They're still working together to go after Solas, whether done under the Inquisition banner or not. But going directly against Solas is going to require "new people".
This is the impression I got, too. When you talk to ruthless spymaster!Leliana before the Exalted Council, she basically says that if the Inquisition disbands, she'll buy a nice house, start new hobbies and live the life of your average Orlesian lady to keep up appearances, but she'll still control her spy network in the shadows.
I also like to headcanon that a mage pc can still communicate with Cole whenever they like, as mages can with any spirit they have a relationship with.
Between this and the mutilation and the whole "non-mages shouldn't even exist" thing and extra dialogue options while other classes get zip, it really feels like I "should have" played a mage. 
But I love my sword & board champion, damnit. I like the idea of a "sleeper gnat" standing against mage-supremacist Corpyheus, of a "mistake" like her (everyone is a mistake, but non-mages moreso) being the first to change Solas' mind, to accept and embrace Cole and the notion of spirits as people, to be fascinated by the Fade despite not being able to draw on it. I hope at least the Inquisitor can still do the lucid dreaming like in the one scene with Solas -- I always wished that was explored more, now it might help stay in touch with Cole.
As for the others, I got the feeling, especially from the post-slides scene, that the separation is mostly for appearances. They're still working together to go after Solas, whether done under the Inquisition banner or not.
I really hope so. It's sad to see bonds forged and then discarded ... and nonsensical to do so in times of great danger. Completely out of character for most of these people, too.
Eh... still seems so sudden to me when it's just in a codex. They are so damn cute together, I would have liked to see them or hear about it in banter, not a random read. We can see Bull and Dorian hook up and Josie being courted by Blackwall for a bit too. That would have been the cutest!
I would have liked to see their banter too and how they interact, like Krem and Maryden. Though, It wasn't all of sudden, it just happened off screen.
I would have liked to see their banter too and how they interact, like Krem and Maryden. Though, It wasn't all of sudden, it just happened off screen.
The romance was kind of all of a sudden, I think. I missed the codex entry in all of my playthroughs, but when I went back to read it, it just makes it seem like they like each (a doodle where they stand back to back with awesome weapons and stuff). Not necessarily that they are romantically involved, right? Or did I miss that entry too? Stupid Sera making me read! I guess that's why it seems 'all of a sudden'. Because there wasn't any romantic specific content until that epilogue slide, right?
The romance was kind of all of a sudden, I think. I missed the codex entry in all of my playthroughs, but when I went back to read it, it just makes it seem like they like each (a doodle where they stand back to back with awesome weapons and stuff). Not necessarily that they are romantically involved, right? Or did I miss that entry too? Stupid Sera making me read! I guess that's why it seems 'all of a sudden'. Because there wasn't any romantic specific content until that epilogue slide, right?
Sera only mentions Dagna when she's not romanced by the Inquisitor and she gives her a pet name, a habit she does to her lovers, so it implied romantic interest. 
In 2 of my Seramance pts, Dagna wasn't mentioned in her journal.
Sera only mentions Dagna when she's not romanced by the Inquisitor and she gives her a pet name, a habit she does to her lovers, so it implied romantic interest.
In 2 of my Seramance pts, Dagna wasn't mentioned in her journal.
Yeah, that's probably why it seems a bit out of nowhere to many people. Unless you've done her romance, some of these things aren't as clear, I guess. I had no idea that she gives pet names to her lovers (although that totally makes sense given her character). Knowing that, seeing "Widdle" could be a hint. I just thought she was being goofy Sera and found another goofy gal to nerd out with. Don't get me wrong, I'm cool with the relationship (someone is getting some dwarf loving, at least!). I just really had no idea that the two were a thing at all until that slide and, even then, did a double take because I had no idea for the life of me who "Widdle" was!
Between this and the mutilation and the whole "non-mages shouldn't even exist" thing and extra dialogue options while other classes get zip, it really feels like I "should have" played a mage.
I really hope so. It's sad to see bonds forged and then discarded ... and nonsensical to do so in times of great danger. Completely out of character for most of these people, too.
I like playing mages, but I think the story was meant more for a rogue. But yeah, it's just how you play it. And Cole says he'll return if needed, so I imagine even a non-mage Inquisitor would be able to get his attention somehow.
I must admit I never liked Sera, but the combination of her and Dagna sounds like one with the kind of ingenious yet more-or-less accidentally destructive potential that would make Kang the Mad/Lord Lao from the world next door sit up and cheer in approval, and that mental image is amusing.
I like playing mages, but I think the story was meant more for a rogue. But yeah, it's just how you play it. And Cole says he'll return if needed, so I imagine even a non-mage Inquisitor would be able to get his attention somehow.
It works for all classes, yeah, it's just that the various supernatural elements make me wish we could keep the Anchor so all Inquisitors stayed more connected to that sort of thing (and hey, I'd grown attached to it). As for Cole, I like to imagine his impossibly sensitive empathy allows him to vaguely keep tabs on people who are important to him, if he exerts himself a bit. Especially if they're hurting. Time and distance have been shown not to interfere much with his "readings".
Yes I made Cole a real boy so he hooks up with the Bard. But I think it is far more cute to have Krem and her hook up.
Idk.
Personally, I want to express my most sincere condolences to both of them, 'cause.. Mariden? Guys, really? 
Spirit Cole still helps people from the Fade (where he says he'll be most needed). He also promises to return if he's needed on the physical side.
I have to say that's seems a little silly though, since he's still and basically always will be needed.
Spot-on again. It's one thing to have choices and actions influence an NPC's decisions over the course of the game -- that does feel more natural than having it all hinge on a singular moment. But Leliana's quest is pretty much a case study in how not to handle such a development. And yes, the way she ignored a direct order and gets away with it is absolutely not okay.
Now I want to be able to judge her. I mean, she committed murder after all. That shouldn't get a free pass just because she's the Spymaster of the Inquisition. Not my Inquisition, anyway.
I think the devs sold Cass' desire for reforms a little short. She just sits in the middle ground between the other two, who are allowed stronger agendas, despite the fact that she repeatedly speaks about the importance of truth and about how the Chantry needs changes because it failed where it was needed the most and by excluding people.
Yeah, it was clear Leliana was the "throw everything in the air and start again" option, Vivienne was the "keep everything exactly as it is" option and Cassandra was supposed to be in the middle. But she doesn't seem "in the middle" enough. At least I didn't think the epilogue matched what she pitched, exactly.
Likewise. It's rare we really get to do that with anyone, but Cole with his unique circumstances could probably do with affirmation more than most, regardless of where he is on his journey. And yes, the assumptions ... I was annoyed that the companions treated keeping the Wardens around as if we were welcoming them as allies who hadn't really done wrong, for example, with no option to explain why we keep them around.
Good example with the Wardens. At least the mage/templar choice has 2 options within those 2 options, but there are still multiple reasons why you could conscript or ally with them.
Thank you. It's always reassuring when someone on the outside of the matter sees and understands it too. I heard about EDI, though I never could get into ME myself, and it sounds like they handled that rather badly too.
You're welcome, I'm glad. It was... I don't know. I don't want to derail the thread, so I'll say it did feel like it was a bit shoehorned because "person = relationship". Luckily they didn't do anything remotely similar with the other AI, Legion. Though now the cynical side of me is thinking: "Female" AI/person = relationship. Anyway, I should move on! 
I wish they had focused more on the existing friendships instead. The companions had lots of unique and sometimes very close bonds with each other that could have been revisited. And I'll always be bitter that staying together as friends is something that rarely seems to cross the writers' minds.
Especially the "staying together" part. Why does everyone who has supposedly grown very close have to scatter to the winds after every game?
If you look at Sera's little note list by her place in the tavern, she gets excited when Dagna first shows up. And in Trespasser, she's still talking about her in her notes, and it sounds like they do know each other well. (Sera is sketching her.) We never see them together, but it's implied.
Yeah, I read it. But her interest never seemed any more than platonic; she was just relieved there was someone "fun" in the Inquisition. So all of the development came in Trespasser, all in a large dump. I'm not really saying it's a bad pairing, I guess I just want to be shown, not told, as they say.
I have to say that's seems a little silly though, since he's still and basically always will be needed.
I take it to mean he's helping there, but still, yes, I selfishly wish he'd stay because he does so much good here with us too and I love the iittle guy damnit.
Yeah, it was clear Leliana was the "throw everything in the air and start again" option, Vivienne was the "keep everything exactly as it is" option and Cassandra was supposed to be in the middle. But she doesn't seem "in the middle" enough. At least I didn't think the epilogue matched what she pitched, exactly.
Same here, either in Trespasser or in Inquisition. It doesn't mention how "her" Circles and "her" templars are different from the past, what she does to protect both, what truths she reveals instead of hiding them, how she wants to welcome and give hope to all the virtuous regardless of race ... It's all rather bland and unspecified.
You're welcome, I'm glad. It was... I don't know. I don't want to derail the thread, so I'll say it did feel like it was a bit shoehorned because "person = relationship". Luckily they didn't do anything remotely similar with the other AI, Legion. Though now the cynical side of me is thinking: "Female" AI/person = relationship. Anyway, I should move on!
Hey, it's plenty derailed already. 
It's a subject worth mentioning ... and for Bioware to be more aware of, IMO. I know Cole was an all-too-rare hope for positive representation for some asexual fans, but so much for that.
Especially the "staying together" part. Why does everyone who has supposedly grown very close have to scatter to the winds after every game?
I wish I knew. Every time they do this reduces my desire to pick up future games, though. There are some mindsets in Bioware's approach to handling protagonists and friendships that really bug me, so I'm getting quite a bit less out of their games than I'd like, in the long run. The cynic in me says they want the option to reuse all these NPCs in future games or books without having to worry about them being weighed down by inconvenient connections to the ex-protagonist(s).
They scatter because they have a home and other friends (I assume they weren't all loners before meeting the PC).
They are gathered from many different parts of the world, to give the PC info on the world, and then I'm sure they would like to go home, visit old friends, and connect with family again, no matter how cool the PC is.
I liked that in Origins you could talk about meeting up with them, going with them somewhere, or that some loved ones will stick around. Hawke just had to take off after the chaos of Kirkwall. The Inquisitor is still on a mission, while the Warden is just doing something that isn't as immediately necessary, so the Inquisitor doesn't have as much down time.
I would like a game that keeps people around, as well, and maybe they could do that if all the companions are from the same nation or town or something.
Never made him a spirit. Who is Zither?!?
Not Zither. It's ZITHER! !
ZITHER! Virtuoso extraordinaire!
*cough* Dude's a MP character. Basically Dragon Ages version of a D&D bard.
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