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ME2 vs. ME1, first impressions...


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#1
pedal2metal

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Hi,
   I'm posting this here in case of spoilers.  I'm about a dozen hours into the game.  I played ME1 through somewhere around 15-20 times.  I've started ME2 w/fresh soldier that I will then compare to my imported level 60 ME1 soldier w/max skills/max charm/max intimidate/max paragon/max renegade.  That will have to wait a while.
However, I do have some first impressions.

Overall, enjoying the game.  It's definitely a distinct experience from ME1.
If ME1 was a streamlined RPG w/3rd-person shooter elements, ME2 is a class-based 3rd-person shooter w/role-playing elements.  Both fun, but distinctly different flavors.  Graphics, dialogue, characters, environments, missions are all excellent in ME2 & in general improved over ME1.

I do have several minor annoyances:

You can't walk around the Citadel Presidium, only the Wards which are now like a big multi-level shopping mall.  Not a big deal but I really enjoyed walking around the Presidium in ME1.

Also the supposed improvement over the elevators (which I actually enjoyed due to the interesting banter depending upon the group mix), isn't really an improvement.  It's now just a loading screen.  Not a big deal but taking my 10 pennies & giving me 2 nickels & saying I've gained something is pretty silly.  I've never been a fan of "change for change's sake".  At least with the elevators, it was unique & a Bioware trademark (silly banter aspect).  Now w/loading screens, it's just a "me too" implementation.  I guess in that sense it's "mission accomplished" as now since Bioware is like everyone else, Bioware won't be "singled out" like the elevators were by fans or the critics.  Safe but boring IMO.  Definitely not an "improvement", just a "change".

Also now, some aspects of character movement & the larger implications are different (you don't walk out of your ship) which means a loading screen.  Also once a side-mission is over, you can't go back so make sure you save often in case you forgot some $$/resources as these are harder to come by.

With regards to the Mako rides in ME1, those have now been substituted w/planetary scanning.  It takes just as long to scan a planet fully as it did to traverse a planet map in ME1 w/Mako (about 10 minutes) so it's largely a wash IMO.  It's just as tedious & boring after the first few times.  Except this time, since you need resources since they aren't plentiful elsewhere in the game, there's no skipping this like you could w/Mako (just go for the main story and/or revealed targets on map & forget uncharted world exploring) unless you just don't feel like upgrading your technology (which is now the only real way to upgrade your guns, ship, etc... as there's no such thing as "mods" anymore).  It would have really helped if the Planetary Scanning Technology Upgrade actually made it possible to move the Scanning crosshairs at the same speed as you can when not scanning.  Then it would have been a cool upgrade that really felt worth it to research.  As it stands, I can't see what effect it's had whatsoever although I'm sure it's done something, it's just not intuitively obvious.  Also, why do I have to plant the probe?  Can't the ship AI handle this to find the "optimum" location once I find a region under the reticle which has a "heartbeat"?  Seems like a pretty simple task for a computer to do.

Now you have to micromanage fuel/probes between star clusters with this little icon ship of the Normandy.  It feels gimmicky to me & isn't really essential to the game.  I prefer the ME1 system where you can quickly go from 1 system to another & don't have to spend time worrying about this which becomes a nuisance quickly.  Again, not a huge deal but ME1 was better here.  If we aren't going to have full-fledged space battles w/ships, who wants to micromanage fuel/probes?  Just assume the ship AI knows how to do this & keeps the ship fully prepared as needed.  That's not something humans need to manage, especially not in 2184.

Medium gripe:
1.  Cooldown applies to all skills, not just the skill in question (although still per-player).  They've been shortened to help w/this but generally, I don't like this simplification.  I think the per-skill cooldown in ME1 is a superior, albeit more complex, approach which allows for greater player/gameplay flexibility.

I do have one major gripe:
1.  The depth of loot grab, upgrades, etc.... & skill trees is seriously lacking as compared to ME1.  It's as if the complaint about the ME1 inventory system was solved by simply abolishing inventory altogether.  Now in ME2, any item progression is largely done through "research" which is driven by afore-mentioned resources gained through planetary scanning.  It's ok but it's not a traditional RPG loot progression system.  I would have preferred the inventory system actually get fixed (DAO was fine as was every other BioWare RPG to-date besides ME1) while still having some decent loot progression available.  Currently, you don't get to pick any armor for you team (only yourself).  I enjoyed the range of armor, weapons, upgrades, & ammo types from ME1.  I'm not sure where "fix the inventory system" got translated into "remove the need for an inventory system".  Skill trees are in the same boat.  Basically, now ammo upgrades no longer apply to items (that's SO illogical!  :).  Now they apply to the character class & whether any squad points have been put into that ammo skill.  Seems kind of silly to me but that's what I meant when I said it's a 3rd-person shooter w/role-playing elements.  Fortunately, the dialogue is still excellent along with the characters but the player character is now measurably "thinner" with the focus being on combat & how to make some small progression with respect to combat skills.  Item progression is largely dropped in favor of more generic research.  This is one aspect of ME1 that I definitely miss (although I don't miss the inventory system).  Clearly, this was a design decision as it's pervasive in ME2.  So the flavor is more like a 007:  Everything or Nothing (something like that) where you've got nice mission variety but generic-style upgrades or a LOTR Conquest where you have some different character classes but the focus is on combat skills, not specific items & item progression.  ME1 was already streamlined sufficiently as compared to virtually every other RPG in existence.  With this additional measure by ME2, it crossed the line & changed the emphasis or "centricity" of the game from RPG w/shooting to SHOOTER w/rp.

That's it, that's my only major gripe.  Everything else is minor/medium, although taken together, I find the sum of them fairly annoying & not a value-add over ME1.  That being said, EVERYTHING ELSE in ME2 is either equal or improved as compared to ME1.  This is such a numerous list ranging from graphics quality, environment design, AI behavior (both squad & enemies), combat dynamics, mini-games, additional dialogue options, etc... that it's impossible to list them all.  So how would I address these?  Let's assume philosophically the team wants to stay more ME2-architecture over ME1-architecture, here's what I suggest.  I've boiled it down to those things which I think are essential:

1.  Make the planetary scanning technology upgrade a significant upgrade to where now the planets can be scanned quickly by causing the crosshairs to move at the high speed associated with when you're not scanning.  This allows the same mechanism to be used but now it's much less tedious.  I'd even pay $5 to get some DLC to enable this as it's such a chore & really concerns me as to whether I'll play through another 15-20 times like I did in ME1 due to this unavoidable tedium overhead.  Since you must get resources to do technology upgrades which is the only way to really upgrade items given there is no detailed per-item progression system, this tedium is no longer optional like it was in ME1.  I'm suprised this didn't get caught by the higher-level thinkers at BioWare (the guys who think the "great" thoughts).  Taking 10 tedius minutes to scan a planet fully vs. 10 tedius minutes to drive a Mako fully around a map isn't an improvement.  It's just 2 nickels for 10 pennies.  Perhaps NG+ will make this issue moot but I'd still strongly support anything that could address this for ME2 vs. waiting for ME3.
   Some other suggestions on the planetary scan:
   Have some way of indication what portions of the planet's surface have already been scanned.  This makes it easy on the player to scan in "bits & pieces" vs. having to devote 10 continuous minutes to scan a planet fully before he/she can do something else as now, if they've only planted only a few probes (or maybe none), they've really got no reference points to utilize to indicate what they've already scanned. 
   Another:  Let's make the probes infinite & be "automarked".  Once the player finds a "heartbeat" w/reticle, the ship AI automatically "optimizes" the probe location & sends it down.  I spend so much time trying to "tweak" out the ideal location, it's just wasteful but it seems to make a difference so I keep doing it.  Again, this is something an AI could/should easily handle in 2184.

2.  Add some of the ME1 depth back to the item & skill trees.  I doubt this will happen for ME2 as it's fundamental game architecture change.  However, it would be nice to see some of this put into ME3 to make ME3 a strong finale with the best of ME1 & ME2 contributing to it's design & implementation.  As it stands, I'm playing ME2 & longing for more skills, more specific items w/specific item progression from ME1, & more overall depth in both of these areas.  However, if this were to happen, you'll have to actually FIX (not abolish!) the inventory system for ME3.  :)

3.  Go back to the ME1 per-skill cooldown method vs. a global cooldown (both are per party member).  Still keep ME2 durations (or adjust if required for balance) but 1 global cooldown is a step backwards.  Easier programming but less gameplay flexibility.  Given ME1 already did this successfully, there's really no excuse.  Again this will never happen for ME2 but ME3 could do this.

In any case, I'm enjoying ME2 as the story/characters/dialogue are great but I'll need that planetary scan issue addressed for me to play through another 15-20 times like I did ME1.

thanks & best regards,
Pedal2Metal

#2
kailath

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Well said, couldn't agree more. It feels like such a different game but familiar at the same time.

#3
Locoluke

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kailath wrote...

Well said, couldn't agree more. It feels like such a different game but familiar at the same time.

I'm sure that was their intention.  They made what they felt were improvements to the original game, but you shouldn't forget that ME 1 and ME 2 are entirely separate games.  They follow the same plot line, and decisions in the first affect the second, but they created a new game with its own strengths and weaknesses.  Everything is up to individual preference, but if I had to point out which one is better done, I don't think there is much of a contest here.  Nothing in this thread is original, it's been stated in a hundred other threads even before the game was released. 

Say what you like about the skill tree, I think it's better than the original.  The powers are actually usful this time around, and you don't spend time doing mundane weapon training that any respectable military personel would have, let alone a spectre.  That kind of thing only makes sense if you're starting off as a poor farmer on a remote planet who gets a gun thrust in his hand, and I  believe that a person who's survived the skillian blitz would know how to handle his or her rifle...

#4
S1nn3d

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I agree entirely with the simplification (or rather, dumbing down) of the equipment, modification and loot of the game. I loved modifying each weapon for different situations, collecting armor for my team members and myself.



I rather turn 10000 more pieces of equipment into parts/medi-gel then scan another planet my entire life. Dear god, that part of the game can go straight out of the window. Bioware, you should be paying *us* to do that crap.



Please, no more dumbing down in ME3 Bioware... pretty please. More isn't always better, I know. But you took out a bit to much this time. So we actually ended up with what one expects... less.

#5
Awesome Helmet

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i hate the universal cooldowns. it doesnt make you play more tactically at all. the biotics themselves were much better in ME1 for the same reason. they were all very practical and all served a different purpose. now i just use pull again and again becasue its available in 3 seconds. i have no problem with the skill trees tho.



scanning is really going to start to get annoying by my 3rd or 4th play through. i mean its already getting stupid and im less then 10 hours in.



i love the fact that i dont have inventory or loot. that **** is stupid in every way.



whats with "dumbing down?" having to choose from 4 armors instead of 100 is dumbing down? if it was up to me id say do more dumbing down then!

#6
pedal2metal

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Well, after now finishing the game, I have to say that ME2 has sold me. I still think my initial impressions have some valuable information/perspective but I'm definitely sold that both ME1 & ME2 are great games. They each are distinct in flavor. I now love each one for what it brings to the table without thinking less of the other.  :)

The only thing that still bothers now after 70 hours of playing is the planetary scanning aspect but even that is now less irritating given my new understanding of the overall design. Basically, you're only supposed to scan rich planets & just do it until you get to moderate & then move on. There are so many rich planets in the game, you'll get more than enough resources to research every technology there is. I know because I did & I probably only researched mabye 10% of the planets. But I was ridiculuously compulsive & found every resource on each planet within that 10% which simply wasn't necessary. However, that's always what happens on your first playthrough since you don't know what you don't know. Now that I know, I will approach it differently. In any case, I posted a sincere thanks to Bioware for doing such great work. I'm truly impressed.

http://social.biowar...03/index/902954

Modifié par pedal2metal, 02 février 2010 - 03:22 .