29 réponses à ce sujet

[swk3000]

My sister is a casual player, and is somewhat lost on how to build her Rogue character. She likes the Double Dagger Rogue, but is thinking about restarting as an Archer Rogue. I'm more than happy to help her with builds, but I really only know the Knight Enchanter, and even that I'm a little lost on lately (though there's a thread covering that, so I'm not asking for advice on that here).

Anyway, I'd like to have a couple of builds on hand for her to make use of: one Dual Dagger, and one Archer. That way she can use the one she likes. The thing is, she doesn't like any of the specializations, so she would need builds that either don't take a specialization at all, or that does, but only for the passives. In addition, as a casual player, she isn't going to be farming, so she's not going to have access to the best schematics for gear.

Would anyone be willing to give advice on casual Archer and Dual Blade Rogue builds?

[andyhutch]

Since I have never played anything except Nightmare difficulty, please take my advice with a grain of salt.  What I am aiming for in these builds is a balance between fun (high damage) abilities and "panic button" get-out-of-trouble abilities.

 

Archer

Long Shot & Stealth (starting abilities)

First Blood -> Explosive Shot -> Pincushion -> Full Draw -> Death from Above -> Leaping Shot -> Strafing Shots -> upgrade Long Shot -> Poisoned Weapons -> Fighting Dirty -> Explosive Toxin -> upgrade Stealth -> Evasion -> Evade -> upgrade Poisoned Weapons -> upgrade Leaping Shot -> upgrade Full Draw -> upgrade Explosive Shot

Personally I think that this is the way that I would have more fun playing if I was avoiding specializations.

 

Dual Blade

Twin Blades & Stealth (starting abilities)

Flank Attack -> upgrade Flank Attack -> Dance of Death -> Sneak Attack -> Deathblow -> upgrade Stealth -> upgrade Deathblow -> Easy to Miss -> Knockout Powder -> upgrade Knockout Powder -> Caltrops -> Looked Like it Hurt -> Cheap Shot -> Throwing Blades -> upgrade Throwing Blades -> Bloodied Prey -> Unforgiving Chain -> Spinning Blades -> upgrade Spinning Blades

Dual Blade rogue is probably the squishiest class playable so even on casual she might want to craft some guard generating armor.  There are two locations in the Hinterlands that grant Fade Touched Obsidian with no farming.  The first is a locked house in Redcliffe (requires Deft Hands, Fine Tools perk).  The second is the smuggler boat in the dock near the dragon.  

[PapaCharlie9]

Since I have never played anything except Nightmare difficulty, please take my advice with a grain of salt.  What I am aiming for in these builds is a balance between fun (high damage) abilities and "panic button" get-out-of-trouble abilities.

I agree with those builds for the most part. I would favor Leaping Shot over Full Draw for the Archer for a Casual player. For DW Rogue I'd get the Stealth upgrade right away, as the 3rd skill point spent.

 

But for Casual, honestly, you could just do Automatic Level-Up and be fine. If she doesn't like the skills she ends up with, she can buy an amulet and respec.

 

Is this without the Trespasser DLC? I'll assume so. If you had the DLC, there are some adjustments to upgrades to make, like getting the upgrade to Poison Weapons that gives health as soon as possible.

 

You do not need Gain Guard on Casual, IMO. Instead, get the Perk for 12 health potions. That should be plenty to make up for the squishiness of rogues. If that still isn't enough, carry some Regen potions. You don't even have to upgrade them.

[Bombadyl]

Starting a brand new archer post patch and I noticed you all are still going towards Full Draw.   I would certainly pick it up as I'm attempting a solo NM, but doesn't the new Full Draw toggle allow you to negate having to go all the way down the tree and allow to pick up some stealth and poison options earlier?

 

When playing with a group, the added bonus of doing 900% seems so far to be better than 5sec incapacitate or 20sec sleep since it requires a lot more investment, at least early on.

[swk3000]

Papa Charlie: yes, we do have Trespasser. And I do appreciate the builds. Question, though. While she's not interested in the specializations themselves, I could probably convince her to take a specialization for the passives. Is there one specialization that would be worth taking just for the passives?

[Bigdawg13]

Many take Artificer just for the passive "Opportunity Knocks".

[Bombadyl]

Many take Artificer just for the passive "Opportunity Knocks".

 

Back during the initial release, before there were a million youtube videos on hundreds of different variations of builds, another forum member pointed this out.  I whipped out the calculator for some quick gazintoos and saw a lot of potential for a party build this was and it turns out it worked great.

 

Archer artificer as Quizzy was probably one of the least used builds, but it turned the party into a ranged mobile artillery battery and I for one found it fun.  I certainly see how it could also apply in DW builds as well, as with Varric in the party it reduced CDs to next to nothing. 

 

A casual player starting out, I think it is more than viable to get ones feet wet, and ranged helps with starting out squishy. 

[Bayonet Hipshot]

With the recent updates, archer artificer or archer assassin is the way to go. I personally found archer artificer to be more rewarding due to the elemental damage, crowd control, oh shite! ability and good passives. Archer assassin is good but many enemies are immune to sleep which is what Knockout Bomb is all about, AOE sleep. No enemy is immune to all types of elemental damage.

 

Spike Trap now has an upgrade that makes it excellent for large number of enemies. The alternative upgrade for Elemental Mines is currently bugged but it otherwise turns the Artificer into a Theodosian version of the Demoman and the alternative upgrade of Fallback Plan resets the cooldown of all the abilities. What's not to love ?

[themageguy]

I agree with the people posting Archer and Artificer. They pair extremely well and even if she doesn't want to use the skills, the passives are awesome.

[swk3000]

Since I have never played anything except Nightmare difficulty, please take my advice with a grain of salt.  What I am aiming for in these builds is a balance between fun (high damage) abilities and "panic button" get-out-of-trouble abilities.
 
Archer
Long Shot & Stealth (starting abilities)
First Blood -> Explosive Shot -> Pincushion -> Full Draw -> Death from Above -> Leaping Shot -> Strafing Shots -> upgrade Long Shot -> Poisoned Weapons -> Fighting Dirty -> Explosive Toxin -> upgrade Stealth -> Evasion -> Evade -> upgrade Poisoned Weapons -> upgrade Leaping Shot -> upgrade Full Draw -> upgrade Explosive Shot
Personally I think that this is the way that I would have more fun playing if I was avoiding specializations.
 
Dual Blade
Twin Blades & Stealth (starting abilities)
Flank Attack -> upgrade Flank Attack -> Dance of Death -> Sneak Attack -> Deathblow -> upgrade Stealth -> upgrade Deathblow -> Easy to Miss -> Knockout Powder -> upgrade Knockout Powder -> Caltrops -> Looked Like it Hurt -> Cheap Shot -> Throwing Blades -> upgrade Throwing Blades -> Bloodied Prey -> Unforgiving Chain -> Spinning Blades -> upgrade Spinning Blades
Dual Blade rogue is probably the squishiest class playable so even on casual she might want to craft some guard generating armor.  There are two locations in the Hinterlands that grant Fade Touched Obsidian with no farming.  The first is a locked house in Redcliffe (requires Deft Hands, Fine Tools perk).  The second is the smuggler boat in the dock near the dragon.

Just realized: what abilities would you put on the Quickbar for these builds? Or have you left that up to personal preference?

[szemyq]

Well if she is looking for a safe build i would recommend the sabotage traitline. Bleeding caltrops provide really good passive aoe damage and the new upgrade for the poison cloud is very strong in terms of damage mitigation. Combine this with a mage with upgraded barrier (cooldown reduction) and manasurge as well as a warrior that can stack enemies and its a breeze. I am currently doing this on nm all trials on and it is really hard to even loose some health in this setup.

[PapaCharlie9]

Just realized: what abilities would you put on the Quickbar for these builds? Or have you left that up to personal preference?

Archer: Stealth, Poisoned Weapons, Evade, Long Shot, Leaping Shot, Explosive Arrow, Full Draw, Mark of the Rift

 

Even if she doesn't like Stealth or Evade, just leave them in the slots, so the AI can use them if she switches to another character, which you should encourage her to do to get the experience of playing warrior and mage as well.

 

Typically I do not recommend that an archer take Steath, but for a casual player, it's kind of fun to just sneak round if you don't care to fight.

 

Once she gets Full Draw, have her try that out as the very first skill used when a battle starts (synergy with First Blood for max damage, not that that matters in Casual). In fact, most of the time, she'll be the one starting the battle. Full Draw makes a nice "pewww!" sound which is very satisfying. Then go straight to Stealth so they can't fire back.

 

Rogue: Stealth, KO Powder, Throwing Blades, Flank Attack, Twin Blades, Deathblow, Spinning Blades, Mark of the Rift

 

Don't bother using Caltrops, that's just a step on the way to Looked Like It Hurt and Throwing Blades.

 

She could just use Stealth and Flank Attack all day long. That's what I did with a DW Rogue, before I got the Tempest specialization.

[Ryzaki]

Wait I'm not supposed to use stealth as an archer?

 

I tend to need it or I get swarmed. :X But I use Bull as a tank and there's always a few stragglers that hit me in the face with him XD

[Elhanan]

Simple Archer/ Artificer design:

* Archer: all abilities
* Stealth: all on left side, and one to the right.
* Artificer: all abilities except upgrades.
* Focus: both Aegis picks and Focus boost. However, if planning to play Trespasser, one may wish to skip the latter ability, and place that selection on Knockout Bomb or Artificer upgrade of choice.

This may or may not include all of the Amulet bonuses.

[Bigdawg13]

The OP did not want to use skills from the specialization trees.  So:

 

Archery:  all abilities (4)

Focus: Mark of the Rift (1)

Stealth: (1)

Poisoned Arrows: (1)

Hook n Tackle: (1)

 

There you go.

[PapaCharlie9]

Wait I'm not supposed to use stealth as an archer?

 

I tend to need it or I get swarmed. :X But I use Bull as a tank and there's always a few stragglers that hit me in the face with him XD

Leaping Shot or Evade can be used if you get swarmed. You can use Stealth and you can get bonus damage from firing from stealth (at least the first shot) or maneuvering to flank, but in practice, how often do you do that? There are better uses for those points and for that active slot.

[Bigdawg13]

Leaping Shot or Evade can be used if you get swarmed. You can use Stealth and you can get bonus damage from firing from stealth (at least the first shot) or maneuvering to flank, but in practice, how often do you do that? There are better uses for those points and for that active slot.

 

Also leaping shot can grant stealth if upgraded with alternate toggle. 

[Ryzaki]

Leaping Shot or Evade can be used if you get swarmed. You can use Stealth and you can get bonus damage from firing from stealth (at least the first shot) or maneuvering to flank, but in practice, how often do you do that? There are better uses for those points and for that active slot.

 

Very often actually with Bull as a tank on nightmare. He wasn't that good at keeping them all off me and I wasn't trading him for someone better. Evade also consumes alot of stamina especially in early game and it wasn't that much a deterrence once they were on me. It gave me a second of breathing room and then consumed the stamina I needed for leaping shot. Not helpful. It was mostly good for getting out of aoe attacks.

 

(I guess I should also specify I do not play in tac cam and I loathe it. I also don't tend to switch characters if I can help it. The only time I actually had to use it was during final boss of base game and I still died til I traded Cole for Vivienne and that fight became much easier to the point that I didn't need to use tac cam at all)

 

But my team wasn't ideal anyway since I was going with Solas+Cole and Bull. And since Solas mainly focused on keeping Cole and Bull alive I was managing myself.

[Bombadyl]

Wait I'm not supposed to use stealth as an archer?

 

I tend to need it or I get swarmed. :X But I use Bull as a tank and there's always a few stragglers that hit me in the face with him XD

 

1 point works, 2 points is better, as stealth is the *oh hell* get me out of here button if things go wrong.  Not only that, upgrade also removes ill effects and with 100% agro drop, no rogue should be without.

[Ryzaki]

Upgrade is so useful for those bosses with those dots that want to instant kill me without barrier (since I only run with one mage and I don't tend to use + guard weapons on my rogues). Dat cleanse.

[Bigdawg13]

Stealth (as an ability on your bar) is really not necessary once you get Leaping Shot upgrade that gives stealth.  Why use up one of your limited 8 slots for an aggro drop when it's built into leaping shot? 

[draken-heart]

Stealth (as an ability on your bar) is really not necessary once you get Leaping Shot upgrade that gives stealth.  Why use up one of your limited 8 slots for an aggro drop when it's built into leaping shot? 

 

For a set up/pre-battle stealth?

[Bigdawg13]

For a set up/pre-battle stealth?

Leaping shot will put you into stealth

[draken-heart]

Leaping shot will put you into stealth

 

But you have to get up close to use it. Sometimes you just want to kill something before it can become a serious threat, which is what stealth + Full draw can do.

 

Plus, it was joke.

[Bigdawg13]

But you have to get up close to use it. Sometimes you just want to kill something before it can become a serious threat, which is what stealth + Full draw can do.

Plus, it was joke.

You can leaping shot without a target far away to get stealth before a fight