36 réponses à ce sujet

[san/]

If the Veil gets destroyed, then... what?

I tried to think of possible outcome, like:

- Elfs will become immortal and powerful again and will enslave/kill other races (on the other side, they won't be suppressed anymore).

- Demons will escape the Fade.

- Since the Black City was an origin of the Taint, so.. a chance of mass "infection", maybe?

- The elven gods and the forgotten ones are most likely to return, pissed off and everything.

- Some (all?) elfs will not be able to withstand the magic and will go crazy or die.

 

Any other suggestions?

Which outcome is most likely to happen?

Any more good points?

[vertigomez]

Dwarves are gonna be traumatized, that's what. Orzammar will literally **** itself.

[Mr.House]

Alot of people are going to die in the raw chaos.

[solomon.kosin]

Hmm i do not think so. What you describe is pretty much how Corypheus's "ideal world" would be. Solas is thus opposed to Cory: he wants to bring world back as it is, but not because he wants power or chaos but magic and wisdom. If he wanted world to drawn in chaos he would have let Qunari conquer Orley. Solas is a wise old man and i doubt he would risk destroying the veil if that could cause blight or demons which could harm "his people".

Moreover, the fade and the material world have always been separate, the veil just blocks most of the magic from the fade and makes it impossible to travel here and there physically. I think that destroying the veil will simply return all of the magic to the world which can result either in terrible changes for modern nations or in their deaths somehow

[Kimarous]

Dwarves are gonna be traumatized, that's what. Orzammar will literally **** itself.

 

"SEE? SEE?!? We were right about that sky of yours all along!"

[Arakat]

Hmm i do not think so. What you describe is pretty much how Corypheus's "ideal world" would be. Solas is thus opposed to Cory: he wants to bring world back as it is, but not because he wants power or chaos but magic and wisdom. If he wanted world to drawn in chaos he would have let Qunari conquer Orley. Solas is a wise old man and i doubt he would risk destroying the veil if that could cause blight or demons which could harm "his people".

Moreover, the fade and the material world have always been separate, the veil just blocks most of the magic from the fade and makes it impossible to travel here and there physically. I think that destroying the veil will simply return all of the magic to the world which can result either in terrible changes for modern nations or in their deaths somehow

 

Um... This is what Solas says about what would have happened if Corypheus had died at the explosion: "I would have entered the Fade, using the mark you now bear. Then I would have torn down the Veil. As this world burned in the raw chaos, I would have restored the world of mine... the world of the elves".

 

What exactly would happen if the Veil was torn down is unclear, but "raw chaos" seems a given.

[solomon.kosin]

Um... This is what Solas says about what would have happened if Corypheus had died at the explosion: "I would have entered the Fade, using the mark you now bear. Then I would have torn down the Veil. As this world burned in the raw chaos, I would have restored the world of mine... the world of the elves".

What exactly would happen if the Veil was torn down is unclear, but "raw chaos" seems a given.

Still i do not think that the "world of mine" means a world full of demons and blight. I'm sure he knows how to get rid of those things

[roselavellan]

Still i do not think that the "world of mine" means a world full of demons and blight. I'm sure he knows how to get rid of those things

 

Solas has said that demons are merely spirits that have been twisted against their purpose. So since we know that Solas respects spirits, I'm sure he will bring the Veil down in a way that endeavours to preserve the spirits as they are.

 

I'm guessing maybe a lot of the chaos will come from Thedas not knowing how to coexist with spirits, and people will likely end up perverting a lot of the spirits into demons, though not on the scale seen with Corypheus in the alternate future.

 

It would be interesting to see what Solas intends for his "ideal world". We know he wants the return of the ancient Elvhen world, restored to their full power with magic from the Fade; but we know also that he is an inherently compassionate person who doesn't believe in unnecessary violence and suffering. So I hope the situation will be somewhere in the middle, where there will be unavoidable chaos and death, but perhaps not on the massive scale we fear.

[solomon.kosin]

Solas has said that demons are merely spirits that have been twisted against their purpose. So since we know that Solas respects spirits, I'm sure he will bring the Veil down in a way that endeavours to preserve the spirits as they are.

I'm guessing maybe a lot of the chaos will come from Thedas not knowing how to coexist with spirits, and people will likely end up perverting a lot of the spirits into demons, though not on the scale seen with Corypheus in the alternate future.

It would be interesting to see what Solas intends for his "ideal world". We know he wants the return of the ancient Elvhen world, restored to their full power with magic from the Fade; but we know also that he is an inherently compassionate person who doesn't believe in unnecessary violence and suffering. So I hope the situation will be somewhere in the middle, where there will be unavoidable chaos and death, but perhaps not on the massive scale we fear.

I'm sure there is a piece of puzzle missing. He really is a very compassionate person and he acts very friendly to other companions in the game. He admires Cassandra and says to her that he believes all the crearures have right to live (not exact wording but the same meaning).
This kind of personality does not fit with destruction and killing everyone. So there is surely something missing.

I agree with your point that probably the chaos will be because of the modern people unable to accept magic and spirits cause they see it as absolute evil. But I'm sure that a person he is, he will spare those who accept new world.

[rx00]

I'm guessing maybe a lot of the chaos will come from Thedas not knowing how to coexist with spirits, and people will likely end up perverting a lot of the spirits into demons, though not on the scale seen with Corypheus in the alternate future.

 

Then the Avvars will rise and become the only human faction that can endure this Fade Apocalypse.

[tirnoney]

The removal of the veil is simply the synthesis ending.  Solas sees everyone in the current world as tranquil because they're split from the spirit world.  It wouldn't be demons and spirits pouring into this world, it would be physical beings re-united with the spiritual that they've be cut off from.  Its unlikely the current physical beings inhabiting Thedas would be able to withstand the transition however, but the world Solas would attempt to create is not one populated by physical elves and spirits/demons, but one where the distinctions between the two are no longer relevant or perhaps even measurable.  Spirits would have a physical dimension to their existence and physical beings would have a spiritual.  The sundering created by the veil would be undone.  In his mind anyway.

[solomon.kosin]

The removal of the veil is simply the synthesis ending. Solas sees everyone in the current world as tranquil because they're split from the spirit world. It wouldn't be demons and spirits pouring into this world, it would be physical beings re-united with the spiritual that they've be cut off from. Its unlikely the current physical beings inhabiting Thedas would be able to withstand the transition however, but the world Solas would attempt to create is not one populated by physical elves and spirits/demons, but one where the distinctions between the two are no longer relevant or perhaps even measurable. Spirits would have a physical dimension to their existence and physical beings would have a spiritual. The sundering created by the veil would be undone. In his mind anyway.

That sounds quite...beautiful to me, i would say. Happy end there unicorns return to Thedas

[MrMrPendragon]

What's weird about this, to me anyway, is that there was already a divide between the fade and the real world during the ancient elves' time. I mean, elves had to sleep and dream to get to the fade, not to mention Solas was pretty excited when he steps into the Fade physically as if that was the first time he did that.

 

The way I understand the chronology of major events is that there was a time before the veil (when dragons ruled apparently), then somewhere down the line there were some Titans and dwarves, and then there were elves. Maybe the elves came before dwarves, or maybe it's the other way around, but the veil was there first. Or did I miss something?

 

If his purpose is to bring the world back to the way it was during the ancient elves' time, wrecking the Veil doesn't quite make it exactly like that. If anything, he's just banking on non-chaotic results to emerge once he destroys the veil, because he probably doesn't even know what state the world would be in without it, other than maybe everyone having magic.

[solomon.kosin]

What's weird about this, to me anyway, is that there was already a divide between the fade and the real world during the ancient elves' time. I mean, elves had to sleep and dream to get to the fade, not to mention Solas was pretty excited when he steps into the Fade physically as if that was the first time he did that.

The way I understand the chronology of major events is that there was a time before the veil (when dragons ruled apparently), then somewhere down the line there were some Titans and dwarves, and then there were elves. Maybe the elves came before dwarves, or maybe it's the other way around, but the veil was there first. Or did I miss something?

If his purpose is to bring the world back to the way it was during the ancient elves' time, wrecking the Veil doesn't quite make it exactly like that. If anything, he's just banking on non-chaotic results to emerge once he destroys the veil, because he probably doesn't even know what state the world would be in without it, other than maybe everyone having magic.

There is a dialog between Solas and Dorian if Solas was in the Fade and Dorian not.
Dorian says that it's the secong time in history and Solas adds: in human history.
So maybe ancient elves could travel into the Fade physically? Or maybe it were just evanuris who were powerful enough to do it.

[Ranadiel Marius]

Do you remember how just about everyone in Kirkwall was batshit insane due to the Veil being thin? Imagine that on a global scale plus a major increase in the number of mages plus panic and fear from no one understanding what is going on. So yeah, Kirkwall on magical steroids/hallucigenics.

[KumoriYami]

^{If the Veil is gone, I believe that  Solas will be able to manipulate the Fade so that he can warp reality. It's been mentioned before in the DA-verse that by manipulating the Fade, one could change reality. Given that Solas plans on restoring what was lost, it'd certainly be a faster way to restore everything...? Rather the world being destroyed, I think it'd be 'rewritten'}

 

^{I don't think all elves will suddenly become immortal, but will have an even stronger connection to the Fade with some exceptions amongst the People if they have undiluted bloodlines.... more people will die in the chaos rather than the Veil being destroyed than itself because radical change always causes extreme actions. The order of fiery promise would probably support Solas!}

[Beomer]

I'm sure that at least for the Black City and taint part Solas will have some solution up his sleeve. He certainly knows more about it than we do and even he's not stupid enough to restore the ancient elven world and then have it all consumed by the blight.

[Blood Mage Reaver]

A major confusion regarding Solas restoring magic to the elves is that the ones he talks about are the ancient ones sleeping and not the current ones.

 

He states even to the elven Inquisitor who romanced him that her world will be destroyed to recreate his and given his diminutive views of the Dalish it tantamounts to saying almost everyone who isn't pure enough will wind up torn apart when the Veil comes crashing down.

 

What I think will happen if the Veil is destroyed is that everyone who lives becomes mages and those who were already mages become mages on CRACK.

 

It's like the Veil is the filter preventing nitro from getting into the mages' engines and once it's gone they will become outright reality warpers.

 

It doesn't matter which race you come from, Feynriel is only a half-elf from non-mage parents and the guy has the same kind of juice Solas use not to mention he goes to Tevinter to study full humans which also had that power.

 

The real problem is not the worlds merging and magic returning to full strenght, even primitive humans survived in that setting, the real problem is that a major point in this series is how people regardless of race become corrupted and despotic when they wield too much power.

 

Arlathan and Tenvinter are proof that mages can become godlike immoral despots if they aren't keep in check and the mage-templar war show that muggles when given to much weapons and control over others can be just as bad.

 

If the Veil is brought down then every mage who thinks he/she has the power to rule everyone around her would be 10 times harder to stop and that alone is what makes Solas plan bad.

[solomon.kosin]

Well the same goes without mages. You do not need to be mage to be cruel and despotive

[Blood Mage Reaver]

Well the same goes without mages. You do not need to be mage to be cruel and despotive

 

Indeed you don't, however, the problem with magic is the same one with mutants in X-Men. If Magneto a single person with super powers decides something, humanity at large must comply because numbers and democracy doesn't mean jack when the other guy can move cities with his mind.

 

Even then, Magneto at least has a strong sense of duty to the mutant cause and the moral compass not to attack or oppress normal people just because he can.

 

The problem comes from mutants like Apocalypse, who thinks he has the right to rule everyone, or Sabertooth, who indulge in carnage for the lulz, because their power allow them to.

 

Solas, like Magneto, is willing to commit mass murder to give his people the freedom he thinks they deserve but he knows what he is doing is wrong and only takes this path because he sees no other alternative.

 

However, the Evanur are basically Apocalyse archetypes who all believe they should rule like gods even if they destroy the world just to satisfy their ego. Add to that all the Quentin blood mages out there who, like Sabertooth, think they can murder as much as they want because others can't stop them.

 

While templars became huge dicks thanks to prolongued control over mages and normal nobles decided to wage war and conquest just as magic ones, they need big freaking armies to do any substantial damage.

 

Solas alone could stop an army of Qunari by turning their soldiers into stone with just his toughts, a single squishy elf could own an army of giants with life long military training with his mind because he, like Magneto, was blessed with a buttload of phlebotinum runing in his veins.

 

To even have hope of killing Solas, normal people would need an army of tens of thousands of templars all focusing just on him to prevent his reality warping from turning everyone into stone.

 

Now imagine the damage it would cause to have other 7 people like Solas running amok with far lower moral standards not to mention other powerful evil mages like Aurelian Titus gaining access to a level of power previously unknown to them, it's a recipe for disaster.

 

The only hope this post-Veil world woud have are good mages banding together to fight the evil ones in the name of the innocent and we all know how short of this kind of people the DA setting is.

[TheBlackAdder13]

Solas has said that demons are merely spirits that have been twisted against their purpose. So since we know that Solas respects spirits, I'm sure he will bring the Veil down in a way that endeavours to preserve the spirits as they are.

 

I'm not so sure about this. If you make Cole more spirit, in the epilogue he returns to the fade, saying that that's where compassion will be needed most in the days to come. Sure, I'm sure part of this is just that he now feels more comfortable there, but that line implies that tearing down the veil wouldn't be good for modern spirits either -- remember, with the exception of demons, most don't have any desire to enter the physical world and really don't enjoy being there so tearing down the veil seems like it could have negative implications for them and their societies too -- perhaps even more so than mortals as Cole feels that even more compassion will be needed in the fade than in the physical world.

 

I think Egghead's plan is bad for pretty much everyone. He's a self-centered narcissist. Still probably my favorite character in DA so far though.

[Daerog]

Titans will stir due to the great change, protect the dwarves, dwarves vs. elves part 2.

 

Unless humans survive, then there will be Seekers and Templars, those who can counter magic, and this is something that Solas probably doesn't know much of. He underestimates an ancient Tevinter Magister, he underestimates humans, and he's been asleep while humans rose up as the dominant species of Thedas.

 

 

I'm just going to guess that there will be some sections of Thedas where the Veil will be wiped out, like in a giant forest or something, where elves will be immortal and dwell with all kinds of spirits.

 

However, I'm doubting the Veil will totally fall, that would cause too much chaos and confusion for games to continue (unless they jump a thousand years into the future, because they can't just go to another galaxy!), also that would make a Woobie, Destoryer of Worlds win... and you just don't let genocidal Woobies win unless you are being edgy.

[solomon.kosin]

Indeed you don't, however, the problem with magic is the same one with mutants in X-Men. If Magneto a single person with super powers decides something, humanity at large must comply because numbers and democracy doesn't mean jack when the other guy can move cities with his mind.

 

Even then, Magneto at least has a strong sense of duty to the mutant cause and the moral compass not to attack or oppress normal people just because he can.

 

The problem comes from mutants like Apocalypse, who thinks he has the right to rule everyone, or Sabertooth, who indulge in carnage for the lulz, because their power allow them to.

 

Solas, like Magneto, is willing to commit mass murder to give his people the freedom he thinks they deserve but he knows what he is doing is wrong and only takes this path because he sees no other alternative.

 

However, the Evanur are basically Apocalyse archetypes who all believe they should rule like gods even if they destroy the world just to satisfy their ego. Add to that all the Quentin blood mages out there who, like Saberooth, think they can murder as much as they want because others can't stop them.

 

While templars became huge dicks thanks to prolongued control over mages and normal nobles decided to wage war and conquest just as magic ones, they need big freaking armies to do any substantial damage.

 

Solas alone could stop an army of Qunari by turning their soldiers into stone with just his toughts, a single squishy elf could own an army of giants with life long military training with his mind because he, like Magneto, was blessed with a buttload of phlebotinum runing in his veins.

 

To even have hope of killing Solas, normal people would need an army of tens of thousands of templars all focusing just on him to prevent his reality warping from turning everyone into stone.

 

Now imagine the damage it would cause to have other 7 people like Solas running amok with far lower moral standards not to mention other powerful evil mages like Aurelian Titus gaining access to a level of power previously unknown to them, it's a recipe for disaster.

 

The only hope this post-Veil world woud have are good mages banding together to fight the evil ones in the name of the innocent and we all know how short of this kind of people the DA setting is.

 

Very nice parallell! 

 

I can see your point of view but i don't believe Solas is so that stupid. I mean he has already rebelled and fought against such poverful and low-moral mages didn't he?

 

I think it is very unlikely for him to destroy modern world just to create a dublicate of Arlathan with powerful mages who are willing to enslave everybody else. I think that he has already thought of all possible circumstances, just as we are doing now and calculated all of that: powerful mages,wars and etc. And maybe he has found some answer which we can't find because he possesses more knowledge. 

 

So maybe modern world will face all those magic madness, but his - not. I think he will try to eliminate all those dangers and maybe already has a solution

[thats1evildude]

The very nature of reality changes. The Fade merges with the real world, creating a landscape completely alien to the Thedas we know.

[Daerog]

The Fade does not merge with the material world (anymore than it currently is, anyway). It will just make the crossing between the two easier, for spirits and mages and the influences the Fade can have on the material world. It'll make it different and weird for modern people, but there is still a division between the two.

 

There was always a distinction between Earth and the Fade, and the Crossroads were always on that border before the Veil closed it off from everyone besides those who know about the Eluvians (sort of).