36 réponses à ce sujet

[Lazarillo]

Finally decided, I think, on what will be my "canon" Inquisitor, and I'm getting ready to start a new game, but I'm still a little undecided, looking for some guidance.  My current plan is to play a 2-Handed Warrior, who will be serving as the primary Warrior (i.e., the "tank") for most of the game.  This is something I'm pretty used to at this point, as I've had a really hard time breaking away from my Sword-n-Board Templar build for quite a few of my player characters.  With the new upgrades in the Battlemaster tree I'm looking at changing things up a bit, and I'm thinking about a different Specialization, as well.  

 

I'm leaning towards Reaver, but foregoing Dragon Rage, while using the upgraded Ring of Pain with the new upgrade for some continuous AoE damage and Devour for when things get hairy and my Guard fails.  I'm not above trying Champion, though, too, though it just feels kind of boring to me.  I'm not too worried about surviving...I usually play on Normal and will probably do so this time as well, though I may turn a few of the new Trials on...if I did turn up the difficulty, would the extra defense provided by Champions be worth it on Hard or not so much until Nightmare?

 

Also, somewhat unrelated on the subject of Trials, how does combat feel with Walk Softly on?  Do the additional abilities add another level of challenge, or just make the enemies longer/more annoying?  I realize that can be subjective, but I'm curious what people think.  I'm not really interested in enemies being just big sacks of HP and such (part of the reason I've eschewed plays on Nightmare, in fact).

[draken-heart]

Most people will suggest Champion, since it is the tanking spec basically. Honestly, unless you are doing nightmare, any spec can work as tank.

[Lazarillo]

Most people will suggest Champion, since it is the tanking spec basically. Honestly, unless you are doing nightmare, any spec can work as tank.

 

My Templar tanked just fine on Normal, so I'm not too worried, but I am curious what others consider viable and fun, especially since I'm also dropping the shield (and thus, part of my defensive ability) for 2-Handing.

[nolsutt]

I beat the DLCs with a KE on nightmare using walk softly and even ground trials. I am going through Jaws of hakkon with a 2h champ and dual wield assassin now. Some of the abilities they get are interesting, but they mostly amount to nearly one shotting you or very nearly. Their defensive skills are just take longer to get through the, like an elite mage spamming fade step constantly or huge barriers. The elites also have way more hp, this elite bogfisher has 52k health and guard. The normal one has 19k. I am not sure my rogue and warrior will be able to do the dlcs with walk softly on the whole time, the KE has fade step and barriers which can aborb way more dmg then guard. An elite mage shot dorian for 2k when he has 80 percent cold resistance lol.

 

This is on nightmare though, it may not be the same for hard or normal, i'd give it a shot though, it makes min max crafting feel almost necessary.

[Cydh]

I beat the DLCs with a KE on nightmare using walk softly and even ground trials. I am going through Jaws of hakkon with a 2h champ and dual wield assassin now. Some of the abilities they get are interesting, but they mostly amount to nearly one shotting you or very nearly. Their defensive skills are just take longer to get through the, like an elite mage spamming fade step constantly or huge barriers. The elites also have way more hp, this elite bogfisher has 52k health and guard. The normal one has 19k. I am not sure my rogue and warrior will be able to do the dlcs with walk softly on the whole time, the KE has fade step and barriers which can aborb way more dmg then guard. An elite mage shot dorian for 2k when he has 80 percent cold resistance lol.

 

This is on nightmare though, it may not be the same for hard or normal, i'd give it a shot though, it makes min max crafting feel almost necessary.

 

I'm confused, what you're describing is Jaws of Hakkon on nightmare without trials

[nolsutt]

My Templar tanked just fine on Normal, so I'm not too worried, but I am curious what others consider viable and fun, especially since I'm also dropping the shield (and thus, part of my defensive ability) for 2-Handing.

 

Champion seems good for 2 hander so far. To the death lets you deal good damage after a few seconds and generates guard for you, it's great for tough single targets.  Walking fortress is a great oh crap button. If something knocks all your guard off you can just pop that and generate more. Youre aoe is fine too, just use whirlwind, especially if there is a stac cage up. Champion helps cover the 2 handed warriors defensive weaknesses imo.

[nolsutt]

I'm confused, what you're describing is Jaws of Hakkon on nightmare without trials

 

Haha yeah, without the trails its not bad, you can take some hits and kill fast. With trials my warrior gets hit for 5k by a mage. I can beat all the elites except for the mages here. Not sure how they work really, I hardly scratch their barriers and they one shot everyone that doesnt have barrier.

[actionhero112]

Reaver without dragon rage seems a little bleh. Plus, ring of pain is expensive to keep up. It's good with dragon rage because the skill doesn't cost stamina, but unless you're using dragon rage, it's loses its potency. 

 

I would suggest Templar but you just did that. 

 

I mean if you really hate the Reaver health cost on dragon rage, just take the alternative upgrade to it that makes it cost no health. It comes with a cooldown, but just use combat rolls and charging bull in between. 

[zeypher]

for 2 handed tanking means you want 2 handed skills and the passives from W&S tree, which inherently makes it extremely pricey, Your choices are either go champion as to get the defense from there or 2 handed reaver and getting W&S passives and ignoring 2 handed tree mostly.

 

Problem is 2 handed tree is an extremely bad tree this time around.

[tcun44]

It doesn't seem very popular, but SnS Champion is the most fun I've had playing warrior. I know some do not like because it does not do tons of damage. To The Death and/or Livid will help.  Still, nothing can kill you and the Shield Bash new toggle keeps big targets from damaging the team. AI tactical camera is not necessary- just charge in and start bashing things.

[Lazarillo]

for 2 handed tanking means you want 2 handed skills and the passives from W&S tree, which inherently makes it extremely pricey, Your choices are either go champion as to get the defense from there or 2 handed reaver and getting W&S passives and ignoring 2 handed tree mostly.

 

Problem is 2 handed tree is an extremely bad tree this time around.

 

Yeah, my planned build, regardless, would have very little from the actual 2-Handed tree (just Block & Slash and maybe a few of the passives).  

 

Something like this - with an additional 8-9 abilities from whatever specialty tree.  With Mark of the Rift, that would mean two more active abilities I could add to my slots.

[zeypher]

Hmm weirdly enough if you are not going 2handed reaver i would advice to go for W&S, yes i know change and all but the new toggles make W&S even better. Payback strike gives you now all the taunt you need, and other skills are also extremely good.

 

Sadly the lopsided nature of the 2 handed tree makes it kinda hard to justify using it. I am saying this after trying multiple way to make 2 handed work properly, and there were only 3 outcomes. 

 

1: Champion 2 handed using to the death and bees to get your damage

2: templar with the WOH+purge combo, ok for trash when it worked, when it didnt means you were saddled with terrible skills.

3: reaver who by ignoring 2 handed tree gains all the damage resistance passives and therefore has pretty good durability and damage.

 

Finally take another warrior in your party with horn of valor+fortifying blast as that is too good to not to have. So to make it short 2 handed at best allows you to be an offtank but for main line tanking W&S is just superior.

[Cydh]

Haha yeah, without the trails its not bad, you can take some hits and kill fast. With trials my warrior gets hit for 5k by a mage. I can beat all the elites except for the mages here. Not sure how they work really, I hardly scratch their barriers and they one shot everyone that doesnt have barrier.

 

I remember routinely dying from single 3-5k hits when I soloed vanilla JoH. It used to go like this: they hit you for ~0 damage a couple times, silently building up Hakkon's Wrath stacks on you, then they oneshot you for insane amounts. Anyway Shield Bash, Charging Bull, Combat Roll and War Horn were the easiest way to deal with them, as you keep them floored and feared. 

 

If they don't even need Hakkon's Wrath now, things might be worth revisiting. Do they use Mind Blast now?

[rayx]

Haha yeah, without the trails its not bad, you can take some hits and kill fast. With trials my warrior gets hit for 5k by a mage. I can beat all the elites except for the mages here. Not sure how they work really, I hardly scratch their barriers and they one shot everyone that doesnt have barrier.

 

The key is Hakkon's Wrath. it can multiply the damage you take. First ice bolt does 80, the next one becomes 200. A supposed-to-be 50 points damage will become 2000+ to you when you have HW x10. it can be dispelled though so keep dispelling. The Aegis of rift will help, and as Cydh indicated, control them as much as possible. 

[zeypher]

for the hakkonites i always love charging bull+ war horn to panic them. 

[PapaCharlie9]

I have to give some support to 2H Champ. I'm playing one now on Nightmare, no Trials, almost done with the main quest, I'm just before the point where Morrigan is going to find out what "bound to Mythal" really means.

 

It's been great fun! I'm using an AoE greataxe -- in general I've favored AoE 2H weapons over the direct damage mauls. I've been using Pommel Strike, Mighty Blow, Block & Slash for 2H skills, all upgraded. I also use two Vanguard actives: War Cry, Charging Bull. I have upgraded Grappling Chain because that's just too fun not to have. I have upgraded Walking Fortress from Champ plus all the passives on the right side. And finally a focus skill.

 

Even though I'm level 18, I'm hurting for skill points. I've got them split across four trees, which is probably one too many. I don't have any points down the left side of Champ, which means no To the Death. I'm going to have to respec to fix that, but not sure what to drop. It would have been Grappling Chain, but now that Combat Roll does damage, maybe I drop Vanguard? But I'm so close to Livid. Decisions, decisions!

 

In any case, the list of actives above makes for fun combat play. I don't have any problem with taking damage, I always have guard, and I detonate combos all over the place. I generally do all the tanking by Charging Bull into the middle the mob, preferrably knocking them all flat, then War Cry for guard and Taunt, then just as they are geting back on their feet, Walking Fortress so I can't be flanked. Then it's just wail away on fools until they die.

[Bigdawg13]

I have to give some support to 2H Champ. I'm playing one now on Nightmare, no Trials, almost done with the main quest, I'm just before the point where Morrigan is going to find out what "bound to Mythal" really means.

 

It's been great fun! I'm using an AoE greataxe -- in general I've favored AoE 2H weapons over the direct damage mauls. I've been using Pommel Strike, Mighty Blow, Block & Slash for 2H skills, all upgraded. I also use two Vanguard actives: War Cry, Charging Bull. I have upgraded Grappling Chain because that's just too fun not to have. I have upgraded Walking Fortress from Champ plus all the passives on the right side. And finally a focus skill.

 

Even though I'm level 18, I'm hurting for skill points. I've got them split across four trees, which is probably one too many. I don't have any points down the left side of Champ, which means no To the Death. I'm going to have to respec to fix that, but not sure what to drop. It would have been Grappling Chain, but now that Combat Roll does damage, maybe I drop Vanguard? But I'm so close to Livid. Decisions, decisions!

 

In any case, the list of actives above makes for fun combat play. I don't have any problem with taking damage, I always have guard, and I detonate combos all over the place. I generally do all the tanking by Charging Bull into the middle the mob, preferrably knocking them all flat, then War Cry for guard and Taunt, then just as they are geting back on their feet, Walking Fortress so I can't be flanked. Then it's just wail away on fools until they die.

 

I can't wait to hear more.  My 2H Warrior is sitting idle at level 16...incapable of deciding on a specialization.  I keep trying them out, but it's not going so well.  I'm doing nightmare with Walk Softly and Even Ground enabled, and it is KILLING ME.  Every direction I turn I end up a pile of goo.  I thought it was just me, but I've got a rift mage and tempest and those two chew up enemies and spit them out, even with the trials on.  My Tempest is chaining back-to-back detonators doing 3k-6k and is able to eat through the tremendous amount of guard and barriers.  My Rift Mage can control things long enough that her party is able to hack through them.  But my poor warrior is just getting chewed up.

 

Last night I tried out the new toggle for upgraded Horn of Valor and it was a game changer most of the time.  I still avoid rifts, but I can take on giants or great bears (oh, I have Grizzled End on too) with no problem.  But it's like sometimes...I just die.  I'll be at 90% health and then BAM I'm dead.  I don't understand.

 

I can't decided between Reaver or Champion.  Reaver would give me the damage to rip through the guard and barriers, but I die too fast still with all these trials enabled.  Champion would let me survive longer, but I am having a hard time giving up my current skills.

 

Currently using:

1)  Mighty Blow

2)  Block and Slash

3)  Charging Bull

4)  Combat Roll

5)  Whirlwind

6)  Grappling Chain

7)  Horn of Valor

8)  Focus

 

Reaver needs all three skills IMHO (some forgo RoP).  But because you end up only using those three, you can pretty much replace whirlwind, mighty blow, and block and slash.  My concern with Reaver is that I die so fast on the trials, and unconscious players do no damage.

 

Champion needs three skills too (TTD, WF, and Warcry IMHO).  The problem is, what to give up.  I really feel like you need grappling chain to get those archers off your team.  And right now I'm dying left and right, so I find all too often I roll away from damage, and then charge back in.  Whirlwind is my go-to for detonators and damage.  I really feel like I may have to drop mighty blow and block and slash, but these are core skills for 2H IMHO.  It'd be like an archer dropping long shot, or a DW rogue dropping twin fangs. 

 

I have yet to try JoH, but from what I've read, playing with these trials turned on is starting to feel like that.  I'll be fine and then BAM I'm dead so fast.  So I need to control them or kill them faster.  Gah!  Tempted to turn off walk softly.  I could give up Upgrade Horn of Valor but my concern is my party would begin to die again.  I could replace it with War Horn for more control, but I'm already struggling for skill slots.

 

I also thought to replace like-with-like.  So Walking Fortress negates damage, so replace either Horn of Valor with it or Block and Slash.  Admittedly I don't use Block and Slash much anymore.  I die so fast that I don't have time to wait to block.

[Shevy]

I would suggest Champion. With this specialisation you can play every role very effectively once another got boring. With the new twohander from the special shipments you can play a functioning twohand-tank. The sword gives 14 constitution, 50 armor (more than most shields) and has a chance on hit to taunt every enemy in 8 meters. I use it on my twohand Champion and it is fun because I don't need a S&S tank anymore and I can do decent damage.

[draken-heart]

I can't wait to hear more.  My 2H Warrior is sitting idle at level 16...incapable of deciding on a specialization.  I keep trying them out, but it's not going so well.  I'm doing nightmare with Walk Softly and Even Ground enabled, and it is KILLING ME.  Every direction I turn I end up a pile of goo.  I thought it was just me, but I've got a rift mage and tempest and those two chew up enemies and spit them out, even with the trials on.  My Tempest is chaining back-to-back detonators doing 3k-6k and is able to eat through the tremendous amount of guard and barriers.  My Rift Mage can control things long enough that her party is able to hack through them.  But my poor warrior is just getting chewed up.

 

Last night I tried out the new toggle for upgraded Horn of Valor and it was a game changer most of the time.  I still avoid rifts, but I can take on giants or great bears (oh, I have Grizzled End on too) with no problem.  But it's like sometimes...I just die.  I'll be at 90% health and then BAM I'm dead.  I don't understand.

 

I can't decided between Reaver or Champion.  Reaver would give me the damage to rip through the guard and barriers, but I die too fast still with all these trials enabled.  Champion would let me survive longer, but I am having a hard time giving up my current skills.

 

Currently using:

1)  Mighty Blow

2)  Block and Slash

3)  Charging Bull

4)  Combat Roll

5)  Whirlwind

6)  Grappling Chain

7)  Horn of Valor

8)  Focus

 

Reaver needs all three skills IMHO (some forgo RoP).  But because you end up only using those three, you can pretty much replace whirlwind, mighty blow, and block and slash.  My concern with Reaver is that I die so fast on the trials, and unconscious players do no damage.

 

Champion needs three skills too (TTD, WF, and Warcry IMHO).  The problem is, what to give up.  I really feel like you need grappling chain to get those archers off your team.  And right now I'm dying left and right, so I find all too often I roll away from damage, and then charge back in.  Whirlwind is my go-to for detonators and damage.  I really feel like I may have to drop mighty blow and block and slash, but these are core skills for 2H IMHO.  It'd be like an archer dropping long shot, or a DW rogue dropping twin fangs. 

 

I have yet to try JoH, but from what I've read, playing with these trials turned on is starting to feel like that.  I'll be fine and then BAM I'm dead so fast.  So I need to control them or kill them faster.  Gah!  Tempted to turn off walk softly.  I could give up Upgrade Horn of Valor but my concern is my party would begin to die again.  I could replace it with War Horn for more control, but I'm already struggling for skill slots.

 

I also thought to replace like-with-like.  So Walking Fortress negates damage, so replace either Horn of Valor with it or Block and Slash.  Admittedly I don't use Block and Slash much anymore.  I die so fast that I don't have time to wait to block.

 

I thought about playing a weapon and shield reaver (or at least, a reaver putting emphasis on the weapon and shield passives) but then thought about doing that for Bull and going DW rogue for canon/main PT Inquisitor.

[Bigdawg13]

I think the biggest hold-up is the lack of an AoE taunt built into Walking Fortress.  It should really have one.  Or too bad we can't macro the skills in sequence.

 

Currently thinking of Champ instead of reaver.  I get bored of the reaver dragon-rage spam I guess.  I should give it one more trial run though and make sure, because it does great damage.

 

If I go champ, I know i'm going to want WF, TTD, Whirlwind, Grappling Chain, Warcry, Charging Bull, and Combat Roll.  The last two are necessary to keep big targets in range of TTD.  I am considering swapping one out on occasion for trash with Mighty Blow or some other skill.

 

That leaves me 1 spot which I can toy with Horn of Valor, Mighty Blow, Block and Slash, or a Focus.  I may just drop Focus completely...not sure yet.  It doesn't seem to be as awesome as it used to be.  A high level rift with walk softly enabled, and Rift barely touches them.  It really just acts as an AoE snare with some small spirit damage chipping away at the huge barrier and guard.

[PapaCharlie9]

I'm considering dropping the Champ focus. It was critical to the WEWH boss fight when I was low level (this is a no-crafting run), but lately I haven't found the need. That might change for Tresspasser, I dunno.

 

I might drop Vanguard altogether and rely on Horn of Valor alone for Guard. I'd also switch to Whirlwind. Something like:

 

1. Whirlwind

2. Block & Slash

3. Pommel Strike

4. TTD

5. WF

6. Horn of Valor

7. Combat Roll (with damage upgrade of course)

8. Grappling Chain

 

Seems really weird to have a ton of points in Battlemaster and nothing in Vanguard, but I dunno, that build is looking viable.

 

The more conservative route would be to keep Vanguard for Livid and drop Battlemaster.

 

1. Whirlwind

2. Block & Slash

3. Pommel Strike

4. TTD

5. WF

6. War Cry

7. Charging Bull

8. Livid

 

War Cry and Livid seem kind of redundant, but I guess I need a Taunt skill and you have to pay for War Cry anyway to get Livid.

[rayx]

I'm considering dropping the Champ focus. It was critical to the WEWH boss fight when I was low level (this is a no-crafting run), but lately I haven't found the need. That might change for Tresspasser, I dunno.

 

I might drop Vanguard altogether and rely on Horn of Valor alone for Guard. I'd also switch to Whirlwind. Something like:

 

1. Whirlwind

2. Block & Slash

3. Pommel Strike

4. TTD

5. WF

6. Horn of Valor

7. Combat Roll (with damage upgrade of course)

8. Grappling Chain

 

Seems really weird to have a ton of points in Battlemaster and nothing in Vanguard, but I dunno, that build is looking viable.

 

The more conservative route would be to keep Vanguard for Livid and drop Battlemaster.

 

1. Whirlwind

2. Block & Slash

3. Pommel Strike

4. TTD

5. WF

6. War Cry

7. Charging Bull

8. Livid

 

War Cry and Livid seem kind of redundant, but I guess I need a Taunt skill and you have to pay for War Cry anyway to get Livid.

 

Well I will drop whirlwind. I love it, but combat roll is now a better damage skill. Also I will drop pommel strike. mighty blow is good enough for cc.

 

In my 17 lv 2h champion I use:

 

all champion tree except of the upgrade of line in the sand and focus.

mighty blow and upgrade, block and slash, flow of battle

grappling chain, crippling blows, combat roll and upgrade. 

war cry, charging bull

 

Depending on your progress you might have 1~2 points more, you can choice shield breaker/ turn the bolt/ upgrade of charging bull untouchable defense. With this build you can use combat roll, TTD and charging bull to dps, TTD, WF and charging bull to generate guard, mighty blow and charging bull to cc. it is very balanced.

 

But I guess finally it depends on your play style, which teammate you use and what role are you in the team. 

[Cydh]

The damage upgrade to Combat Roll basically means you're going to be silly looking and really sad whenever something spawns with a blocking ability. The damage on it is clearly bugged.

 

It's the only upgrade that's so powerful, it's even worth not taking, because you will unconsciously bring made up reasons not to take it, and you're going to hate yourself for abusing it so much.

[Bigdawg13]

Well I will drop whirlwind. I love it, but combat roll is now a better damage skill. Also I will drop pommel strike. mighty blow is good enough for cc.

 

In my 17 lv 2h champion I use:

 

all champion tree except of the upgrade of line in the sand and focus.

mighty blow and upgrade, block and slash, flow of battle

grappling chain, crippling blows, combat roll and upgrade. 

war cry, charging bull

 

Depending on your progress you might have 1~2 points more, you can choice shield breaker/ turn the bolt/ upgrade of charging bull untouchable defense. With this build you can use combat roll, TTD and charging bull to dps, TTD, WF and charging bull to generate guard, mighty blow and charging bull to cc. it is very balanced.

 

But I guess finally it depends on your play style, which teammate you use and what role are you in the team. 

 

Pommel strike does wickedly good damage though, and you need it on the way to get the guard breaker.  Guard breaker may have been next to worthless before, but if you play with trials Walk Softly on, the guys that seem to have infinite guard definitely would benefit from this passive.  Pommel strike does 500% damage all the time (when upgraded).  Mighty Blow will only get it's bonus damage when you have people knocked down, and to be honest if you can knock them down killing them is trivial.  The real problem is when you are fighting something you can't knock down.  So you are comparing 200% mighty blow to 500% pommel strike (which is a really fast attack animation).  I'm not saying I wouldn't make the same choice, but perhaps not for the same reason.

 

As for dropping whirlwind, for me it is the reason...only reason, I play 2H.  I love it when mages freeze people and paralyze people, and I get to whirlwind through them and detonate them all.  And then they freeze again, and bam bam BAM bam BAM BAM BAM BAMMMMMM!!!!  Screen slow-mo occurs and I begin frothing at the mouth.

 

The damage upgrade to Combat Roll basically means you're going to be silly looking and really sad whenever something spawns with a blocking ability. The damage on it is clearly bugged.

 

It's the only upgrade that's so powerful, it's even worth not taking, because you will unconsciously bring made up reasons not to take it, and you're going to hate yourself for abusing it so much.

 

So it does more than 250% damage?  I've used it and haven't seen numbers that much higher than other comparative skills (mighty blow when the target isn't knocked down).  It would be overpowered if it knocked people down, but it doesn't.  It should, but it doesn't.  It is not nearly as reliable as Charging Bull in that regard.  That being said, I am not sure if I'd take the damage upgrade unless fighting trivial fights.  Being able to move out of CC (like being frozen) sure seems to help.

 

Is there any evidence it does more than 250% damage (other than TTD being active)?

[zeypher]

Combat roll does 500% weapon damage, even my testing proved this. Best way to test is to compare its damage with upgraded lightning jab pommel strike. Both do same damage.