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The series needs to stop distancing itself from Origins and embrace it


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#226
TraiHarder

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We differ a lot on this. Yes, I agree that characters, story, and antagonist are important for a game like this, but Origins fumbled a lot of these. The characters were pretty good as far as party members were concerned, but the rest fell flat.The main threat of course, the Archdemon was uninteresting. Meredith may not have been as dangerous as an archdemon, but I got more of a reaction from her because she was more believable as a villain. This was a woman who went off her rocker and dangerous things happened. That's infinitely more terrifying than a Blight-Dragon.

The story for Inquisition was fine, and I thought the themes of faith were done very well (many "faith" stories these days are just walking billboards for atheism, and far preachier than any Sunday service.) Origin's plotline was just the same recycled BioWARE plot: Get a quest, go to four places, then wrap it up. Inquisition at least tried the open world, and it somewhat worked, but the quests didn't really do it for me (to be fair, they didn't do it for me in any other game too)

I think Inquisition's problem is that they divide their focus for MP and its microtransactions. That leaves them with less time to do the SP content.


OK just to point out you can't say anything about stuff being more believable with a universe like DA lol just saying they have Dragon we don't. If you know the lore then a blight is a very huge problem for their world. So when kne comes it's not something to take lightly and is one of their biggest problems because as we see blights can ruin entire lands. So that's why the started us off with a blight.

And 2 you can't say it's recycled when it was their first installment in the series is lmao.

And I mean it was Smei open world to be honest KY was the same as DA2 just on a bigger scale.

As for the story of inquisition into I like it but felt it could have gave us more emotion from our companion and npcson what was going. As for MP and SP I think they had to change the Story drastically mid way in seeing form the Alpha game play and how different it was. So maybe that had something to do with it. And they weren't given the OK to push back the game.

#227
In Exile

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I don't think fans want a repeat of the Blight or another Grey Warden story,it's more to do with the way subject matter,character development and general story is handled,DAI comes across as a story written for a Saturday morning kids cartoon on times.......it's fun to play,looks great but that's not why fans fell in love with the franchise.

 

The story was awful in DA:O. Structurally, it spins its wheels. Lore-wise, we learn nothing new about the world we didn't already know from pretty much the start of it, apart from one revelation about the AD. And "subject matter", well, the only thing DA:O does better than DA:I is show off its own brand of body horror (red lyrium is the same concept but fails in execution).

 

DA:O is just a better designed game. That's where Bioware's had issues since. But I wouldn't say the other areas are lagging at all. 



#228
Pallando

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We differ a lot on this. Yes, I agree that characters, story, and antagonist are important for a game like this, but Origins fumbled a lot of these. The characters were pretty good as far as party members were concerned, but the rest fell flat.The main threat of course, the Archdemon was uninteresting. Meredith may not have been as dangerous as an archdemon, but I got more of a reaction from her because she was more believable as a villain. This was a woman who went off her rocker and dangerous things happened. That's infinitely more terrifying than a Blight-Dragon.

 

The story for Inquisition was fine, and I thought the themes of faith were done very well (many "faith" stories these days are just walking billboards for atheism, and far preachier than any Sunday service.) Origin's plotline was just the same recycled BioWARE plot: Get a quest, go to four places, then wrap it up. Inquisition at least tried the open world, and it somewhat worked, but the quests didn't really do it for me (to be fair, they didn't do it for me in any other game too) 

 

I think Inquisition's problem is that they divide their focus for MP and its microtransactions. That leaves them with less time to do the SP content. 

 

 

The real antagonist in Origins was Loghain, not the Archdemon...



#229
TevinterSupremacist

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I agree, DA:O was, for me both the best game in the series and one of the best Bioware games in general. When I first tried Origins I thought it was going to be a milestone for future bioware games to be measured against and an indicator of how things should be from now on.

 

Granted, Bioware doesn't think that way. I suggest you drop your expectations , OP, it's clear they don't share our thoughts. It's disappointing and obnoxious, but I'm 99% sure it's a fact. Try moving on.



#230
darkway1

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The story was awful in DA:O. Structurally, it spins its wheels. Lore-wise, we learn nothing new about the world we didn't already know from pretty much the start of it, apart from one revelation about the AD. And "subject matter", well, the only thing DA:O does better than DA:I is show off its own brand of body horror (red lyrium is the same concept but fails in execution).

 

DA:O is just a better designed game. That's where Bioware's had issues since. But I wouldn't say the other areas are lagging at all. 

 

I don't know what game you were playing but DAO does a stella job of story telling,the game introduces and sets up the map,the Gray Wardens,the Blight,Andraste,the DeepRoads,the Mage circle and the templars,not to mention key landmarks and characters etc.........if you want to create a convincing world,DAO is a fantastic example of how you do it.

 

Go and strip out all established DA content from DAI and tell me what stands out beyond graphics and streamlined gameplay.



#231
Erstus

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In regards to the overall tone being darker and more gritty in Origins - I also believe Combat plays a major role in that.

 

With Inquisition the combat animations and effects are very reminiscent of World of Warcraft. The flashy and bright particles/colors from Mage spells to the silly effects from rogues and warriors.

Examples :

Warriors - ''Get Over Here'' chain that shoots from your hand - When you bring your sword down it causes a mini-earthquake and pieces of the ground to explode (lol). There are more..

 

Rogues - The flashy purple color effects for a certain ability and the teleporting from one enemy to the other for backstabs

 

Honestly, it is ridiculous. And most of the time during combat the particle and color effects are so bright and flashy that they clutter the whole battle. So, I just mash buttons until combat ends. These effects feel very out of place in this universe.

 

EDIT - Forgot to add that how all of the bosses are 3x the size of the other enemies. For example, Bandit Leaders are giants among their other fellow bandit comrades.



#232
Erstus

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@TrailHarder - Is that Alpha Gameplay available on Youtube? I could not find it.

 

And yes, Vivenne is by far my favorite character in DAI and ranks my top 3 in the series overall

 

EDIT - OH, the Crestwood gameplay? Yeah, what happened to that. It even had cinematic dialogue instead of Skyrim's style of conversation. Not to mention it showed potential for real choice & consequence.



#233
TheRevanchist

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In regards to the overall tone being darker and more gritty in Origins - I also believe Combat plays a major role in that.

 

With Inquisition the combat animations and effects are very reminiscent of World of Warcraft. The flashy and bright particles/colors from Mage spells to the silly effects from rogues and warriors.

Examples :

Warriors - ''Get Over Here'' chain that shoots from your hand - When you bring your sword down it causes a mini-earthquake and pieces of the ground to explode (lol). There are more..

 

Rogues - The flashy purple color effects for a certain ability and the teleporting from one enemy to the other for backstabs

 

Honestly, it is ridiculous. And most of the time during combat the particle and color effects are so bright and flashy that they clutter the whole battle. So, I just mash buttons until combat ends. These effects feel very out of place in this universe.

 

EDIT - Forgot to add that how all of the bosses are 3x the size of the other enemies. For example, Bandit Leaders are giants among their other fellow bandit comrades.

 

I vastly prefer particle effects and combat that is actually fun to watch, than I do the dry combat of DAO that was little more than awkward, hunched over shuffling and slow combat that involved melee characters being totally unable to attack at all unless they are at very specific angles. DAO combat is no more "realistic" than DAI. They are both equally ridiculous, just for different reasons.  



#234
Majestic Jazz

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In regards to the overall tone being darker and more gritty in Origins - I also believe Combat plays a major role in that.

With Inquisition the combat animations and effects are very reminiscent of World of Warcraft. The flashy and bright particles/colors from Mage spells to the silly effects from rogues and warriors.
Examples :
Warriors - ''Get Over Here'' chain that shoots from your hand - When you bring your sword down it causes a mini-earthquake and pieces of the ground to explode (lol). There are more..

Rogues - The flashy purple color effects for a certain ability and the teleporting from one enemy to the other for backstabs

Honestly, it is ridiculous. And most of the time during combat the particle and color effects are so bright and flashy that they clutter the whole battle. So, I just mash buttons until combat ends. These effects feel very out of place in this universe.

EDIT - Forgot to add that how all of the bosses are 3x the size of the other enemies. For example, Bandit Leaders are giants among their other fellow bandit comrades.


Good point and this was brought up prior to the release of DAI. People including me did not like the cartoonish/bright "combat colors". It took away from the seriousness of the game which for many plays into the "Disneyland" argument that this game is too clean in both tone and visuals.

For me, I like to compare it to RoboCop. DAO is RoboCop 1 while DAI is RoboCop 3. If you know the movies, then you know the point I am trying to make.

#235
Erstus

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Can't quote for some reason

 

@The Rev - You have a point but I still prefer Origins style of combat. The animations better fit the overall tone of the game. In my opinion, they were more ''realistic'' when compared to the outright cartoony effects of DAI.

 

@majestic jazz

 

Yeah, good comparison. I always relate Origins overall tone and atmosphere to that of Diablo 1 & 2 where DAI is more relatable to Diablo 3.



#236
Wintersonne123

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And the real antagonist in DA:I is arguably Solas. Which, I admit, does make that plot thread of DA:I feel a bit inconsequential, like a very long set-up for something that DA4's hero gets to solve. I think the reason that DA:I feels lighter (if you don't include Trespasser) especially in your downtime at Skyhold is not any one detail, but that the story progression was off. Corypheus only was a threat up until the attack on Haven. Urgency was necessarily drained by hours upon hours of open-world questing afterwards. To restore it, the Temple of Mythal and the final boss battle should probably have been combined, as has been suggested before. The Inquisitor also has a position of immense power, with a big castle, armies, etc. You also had armies at your call in DA:O, but I found the mood there more intensly hopeless because what you came back to was a camp with like ten people around a little fireplace in the dirt that you accessed by clicking on a map that was slowly burning up behind you.

 

However, the Inquisition was also there to put a new Divine on the Throne and generally restore order when the world was literally falling apart. For me, I never really thought about Corypheus' much (which is a writing failure), but then again, it's not like the Archdemon was that much more compelling. DA:I was more about establishing a presence that had the power to keep the Mage-Templar war from escalating further, make Orlais a halfway stable country and generally clean up. It's very different from DA:O, but if I want to play DA:O, I'm gonna play DA:O (and the truth is, I rarely want to play DA:O because the combat is like pulling teeth).

And brothels? Where would we have had a brothel here? Redcliffe and Haven are too small, we only saw the nobles' district of Val Royeaux and the Inquisition is half a Chantry operation. I think forcing a brothel into any of these places for the sake of having one would have felt more juvenile than mature.

 

And I know, this is about the dreaded PC crowd that has been TEARING OUR GAMING WORLD APART (read: groups that aren't me are being catered to and I don't like that), but it's not like there's no heavy themes in DA:I. Iron Bull is lugging around a whole subplot of torture-reeducation (not to mention there's some indication he saved Krem from being raped, if you listen to Cole), there's plenty of death and murder to go around for everyone both off- and on-screen, we have the mayor drowning refugees, lots of codex entries with creepy diaries and letters, the world ending in the mage storyline and a whole Order mutated into monsters in the Templar version. Then there was just exploring areas: the desolate nothing of the Hissing Waste, the burning pits with bodies in war-torn Orlais, the swamplands filled with skeletons and other remains of last survivors. It's not as in-your-face as the DA:O City Elf origin, but then again, I always find that level of forced darkness a little grating. I find an atmosphere of suppression and dread, like many areas provided for me, much more effective than rape and graphic violence all over the place.

 

I think it also helps that Orlais plays a huge role as far as setting goes, and the urban parts of Orlais lean more towards Sun-God-Era France than your usual medieval fantasy stuff, thank the Maker for that. I don't always need to follow characters through versions of medieval middle Europe/England. However, that gritty medieval fantasy setting makes brutality more immediately obvious, whereas it hides behind masks and pretty facades in Orlais.

 

Really, I think the issue is that the games are all different because Bioware has always experimented with storytelling. DA:O is your standard dark-ish fantasy fare of Hero saves the world; DA2 tried to do a more focused story with a frame narrative and a structure like a fantasy trilogy, with three separate climaxes focused on one person; DA:I doesn't have a strong focus on the ending, but is a more 'the road is the goal' idea of building up an organisation that prevents southern Thedas from falling into chaos until some more stable structures are re-erected so we can then move on up North for DA4. All of them succeeded and failed in some ways and I think it's fair to like any one of them more than the others, but as 10 pages of discussion show, no, obviously none of them is objectively better than the others.



#237
TraiHarder

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@TrailHarder - Is that Alpha Gameplay available on Youtube? I could not find it.

And yes, Vivenne is by far my favorite character in DAI and ranks my top 3 in the series overall

EDIT - OH, the Crestwood gameplay? Yeah, what happened to that. It even had cinematic dialogue instead of Skyrim's style of conversation. Not to mention it showed potential for real choice & consequence.


Yes it's on YouTube just type in Dragon Age Inquisition Alpha it's the first on where ppl are screaming lol.

And Yea i know right it showed more choice and consequences than like half of the game we got lol.

#238
BSpud

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 DAO is RoboCop 1 while DAI is RoboCop 3.

 

lol


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#239
TheRevanchist

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Can't quote for some reason

 

@The Rev - You have a point but I still prefer Origins style of combat. The animations better fit the overall tone of the game. In my opinion, they were more ''realistic'' when compared to the outright cartoony effects of DAI.

 

@majestic jazz

 

Yeah, good comparison. I always relate Origins overall tone and atmosphere to that of Diablo 1 & 2 where DAI is more relatable to Diablo 3.

 

DAO has very little animations in general. Combat has slightly more than normal, and even those feel very Stiff and Sluggish to me. 



#240
AstraDrakkar

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I'm more concerned with Bioware distancing itself from the original STORY of DAO than the changes in game mechanics. DAO was about the darkspawn and the blight and now it's all about elves and the fade......................



#241
TraiHarder

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I'm more concerned with Bioware distancing itself from the original STORY of DAO than the changes in game mechanics. DAO was about the darkspawn and the blight and now it's all about elves and the fade......................

What lmao?

U do know that blights don't happen back to back. Right?. Are you familiar with DA lore at all? There's more to the entire world they created than blights

Each game can't be about the same thing or it would be pointless of having a series. This isn't a genre where u can do that.
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#242
TheRevanchist

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What lmao?

U do know that blights don't happen back to back. Right?. Are you familiar with DA lore at all? There's more to the entire world they created than blights

Each game can't be about the same thing or it would be pointless of having a series. This isn't a genre where u can do that.

 

You would be surprised how many people believe the whole Dragon Age franchise should have been about Grey Wardens, every PC being a Grey Warden, and always dealing with Darkspawn related things. 


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#243
AstraDrakkar

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What lmao?

U do know that blights don't happen back to back. Right?. Are you familiar with DA lore at all? There's more to the entire world they created than blights

Each game can't be about the same thing or it would be pointless of having a series. This isn't a genre where u can do that.

 I am well aware of the lore of Thedas, as I have been studying it since 2009. There is no need for you to be insulting. I was simply stating my opinion. I just prefer a story that didn't push all of DAO aside as DAI did. Yes, we needed new stuff in the game but Bioware seemed to go out of their way to have us forget all about that part of Thedas with DAI. It just felt like Bioware was saying with DAI, "we don't wanna talk anymore about that". I'm not saying thats the truth, just that it made me feel that way.



#244
TraiHarder

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I am well aware of the lore of Thedas, as I have been studying it since 2009. There is no need for you to be insulting. I was simply stating my opinion. I just prefer a story that didn't push all of DAO aside as DAI did. Yes, we needed new stuff in the game but Bioware seemed to go out of their way to have us forget all about that part of Thedas with DAI. It just felt like Bioware was saying with DAI, "we don't wanna talk anymore about that". I'm not saying thats the truth, just that it made me feel that way.


You obviously don't know anything from your lmao studies mister Thedeologist. Because WE ARE DEALING WITH ONE OF THE MAGISTERS THAT STARTED THE BLIGHT.

BLIGHEST DONT HAPPEN BACK TO BACK SO THERE WOULD BE NO STORY UNTIL THE NEXT BLIGHT SO WHY NOT INBETWEEN THOSE TIMES TELL OTHER STORIES.

In DA2 WE RAN FROM A BLIGHT LMAO

did my caps get to you?

Because in no way shape or form are they trying to make us forget about blights when it's a huge topic in DA:I we even have to stop darkspawn here and there in Inquisition.

#245
TraiHarder

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You would be surprised how many people believe the whole Dragon Age franchise should have been about Grey Wardens, every PC being a Grey Warden, and always dealing with Darkspawn related things.


LMAO OT wouldn't be called DA at that point might as well just call it The Grey Warden Chronicles.

#246
X Equestris

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@TrailHarder - Is that Alpha Gameplay available on Youtube? I could not find it.
 
And yes, Vivenne is by far my favorite character in DAI and ranks my top 3 in the series overall
 
EDIT - OH, the Crestwood gameplay? Yeah, what happened to that. It even had cinematic dialogue instead of Skyrim's style of conversation. Not to mention it showed potential for real choice & consequence.


According to a Eurogamer interview, one of the reasons it was cut was that the old consoles couldn't handle it. Another, though I think this was a much smaller factor, was that they were worried the game would be a bit unbalanced if some zones were packed with military type stuff and others weren't.

#247
ArianaGBSA

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Seeing Thedas after the blight makes me wish darkspawn ruled the land!



#248
TheRevanchist

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Seeing Thedas after the blight makes me wish darkspawn ruled the land!

 

And patrolling the Mojave almost makes me wish for a nuclear winter. 



#249
TraiHarder

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According to a Eurogamer interview, one of the reasons it was cut was that the old consoles couldn't handle it. Another, though I think this was a much smaller factor, was that they were worried the game would be a bit unbalanced if some zones were packed with military type stuff and others weren't.


See I just can't believe that when we have game like Crysis 3 that looked amazing and other that could handle things like that. Maybe they just didn't fully understand how to use the engine or maybe they picked the wrong type of engine.


And the military thing. There should be military like that in every zone we occupy. There are tons of places were there's a flag that says under the protection of the inquisition yet there are no soldiers any where.

#250
DuskWanderer

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The real antagonist in Origins was Loghain, not the Archdemon...

I must have missed the part where we went to fight the Archdemon. You know, the end battle. Loghain was just Denerim's area boss the same way Uldred and Branka were, he was just more involved.