114 réponses à ce sujet

[JeffZero]

The problem for me is that I just can't get into The Witcher. So yeah, I hope BioWare learns some hard lessons from that series going forward, so that, going forward, I might share in the expertise which CDProjekt has demonstrated.

[tybert7]

I agree with this, but would also expand that the freedom of gathering that power really hurt the story as they couldn't have the individual maps build to a specific narrative point.

 

Take for example the WEWH and the Orlesian ball, since having just played it through I am still aghast, aghast I say, how badly built up for the mission is. However, the problem is that there are so many paths the player can take to accumulate the required power that it is impossible for the devs to have any path to build for that mission. Thus they can't insert the content to truly built up the people involved in it and truly convey the scale of the situation in any of those paths since they could easily be missed due to their insistence on the order of maps be completely free. And inserting all that content to one map would be bad game design as it would essentially establish that you can choose your path freely, but this path is what you really should choose.

 

If you look at the narrative structures in DAO and DA2, they always built to the story relevant those maps. The Dwarven path told of their fallen empire and lost glory. The Circle map told the story of the events there, what led to the situation and true horror of what had been unleashed. And so on. Because of the freedom in DAI, each map basically tells the story of that map, and they do actually do at times a really good job of that, but those stories are almost completely divorced from the main narrative beats, which ends up weakening the main story to a deep degree.

 

Excellent point about the ball.  I distinctly remember putting that mission off until I did a bunch more side missions and it seemed disjointed based off what I was doing earlier because things were so spread out narratively and more out of order.

 

I know people keep fawning over open world ideals of freedom, but too much of a good thing is bad for the styles of engagement I'm looking for from bioware.

 

I want their games to be the ANTI "No Mans Sky" procedural generation games.  And in a way the universe of mass effect is structured to allow the PERFECT balance.  You have a galaxy map that you can explore different points of interest for a more open world and freedom inducing feel, but then you can travel to specific star systems / planets / star bases that are NATURAL hubs of activity that can house more consistent and focused narratives that make sense within the smaller subset of where you are in the universe.

 

Everything is not open on a flat plane where you have a more random order of events, having natural hubs tends to get players to focus on specific areas and allows for more immersion than just having a flat board map where places of interest are strewn at random.  DA:I did not have effective hubs of activity, and as long as ME:A does, it can easily avoid its fate.  So now we have the answer.

 

Hope springs eternal that the bioware devs are focusing on large as meaning more varied and interesting hubs with their own focused narrative....  And larger arcs and themes are of course welcome that span the galaxy, but not by sacrificing the more focused narratives throughout the journey.

[JeffZero]

Not everyone fawns over open world, rest assured.

 

In time, the blowback might translate to a bit of a more linear focus again.

[TheChosenOne]

The problem for me is that I just can't get into The Witcher. So yeah, I hope BioWare learns some hard lessons from that series going forward, so that, going forward, I might share in the expertise which CDProjekt has demonstrated.

 

You don´t like W3?!?

 

 

Seriously, I don´t mind how big or small an area is, as long as it´s fulled with meaningful content I will enjoy and get my money worth  

[JeffZero]

You don´t like W3?!?



Seriously, I don´t mind how big or small an area is, as long as it´s fulled with meaningful content I will enjoy and get my money worth

Sorry Mr. Joey Tribbiani! I can't get into the previous two games, is all, and can't fathom attempting to get into it at the third one. I'm all about full immersion with my favorite franchises, and The Witcher seems like a tall order for that. And now I lack hardware to play 1 or 2, too, haha.

[von uber]

Mass Effect is likely to be influenced by the Ubisoft way of doing open worlds; DA:I certainly was. If it is, then I think I may be out. It will depend how much it is in comparison to the narrative / cutscene implementation. DA:I was very, very disappointing in that regard, to the extent that I haven't finished it, and am unlikely too.

We shall see. it certainly will not be purchased from the off; I will wait and see pricing, reviews from a lot of sources, general feedback and how much wallet gouging DLC they are going to do. It will also depend on how well they implement the PC version.

 

Shame really.

[N7Jamaican]

This tweet excites me because, it makes me feel like they are gearing up a portion of the game that they want the fans to see.  Hopefully on N7Day.  We are 2 months away from N7Day.

[Ahglock]

The problem for me is that I just can't get into The Witcher. So yeah, I hope BioWare learns some hard lessons from that series going forward, so that, going forward, I might share in the expertise which CDProjekt has demonstrated.

 

I bought 1&2 on sale and couldn't get into them.  I bought 3 somehow thinking this time it will be different.  It wasn't, still can't get into it.  I think I'm burned out on fantasy computer games in that 3rd person perspective or something I can't get into Dragon age 2 and on either. Elder Scroll games I dump hundreds of hours into.  Don't know what it is. 

[Mcfly616]

Good. ME2 and 3 were way too claustrophobic and linear.

 

 

Time to open it up and broaden our horizons.

[JeffZero]

I bought 1&2 on sale and couldn't get into them.  I bought 3 somehow thinking this time it will be different.  It wasn't, still can't get into it.  I think I'm burned out on fantasy computer games in that 3rd person perspective or something I can't get into Dragon age 2 and on either. Elder Scroll games I dump hundreds of hours into.  Don't know what it is. 

 

That'd be a valid reason, for sure, yeah.

 

For me I just... need to know everything and be absorbed by everything. I can't play TW1 anymore, and when I tried 2, I was lost. And I think I felt a bit lost even when I tried 1. Those books... I feel I really, really need to read them first, and then play 1 and 2, because I'm OCD as hell about this stuff. And apparently, half the books aren't even translated yet, or something.

 

The worst.

[Mathias]

Ooooooooh boy! You guys ready for a Mako simulator!? Where you'll spend hours and hours driving around lifeless terrains to gather collectibles and harvest minerals? Cause that's what this game's gonna be. 10 hours of story and 90 hours of farting around hitting every bullet point of your typical Open World game.

 

Enjoy.

[JeffZero]

Thanks mate. Can you give me the lotto numbers for the 26th of October, too?

[Mathias]

Thanks mate. Can you give me the lotto numbers for the 26th of October, too?

 

I will literally eat my own words if I'm wrong on this. How? I'll print out this thread on paper and swallow it. 

[JeffZero]

It'd probably be worth it, too, if it meant we got a better game for it. Plus, paper is high in... er, pulp... and orange juice is good for you, so... er... what could go wrong?

[Mathias]

It'd probably be worth it, too, if it meant we got a better game for it. Plus, paper is high in... er, pulp... and orange juice is good for you, so... er... what could go wrong?

 

Lol, I understand the possibility that I could be wrong. But the Mako returning with a vengeance? The theme being a Galaxy to explore? Protagonist rumored to be The Pathfinder? "Largest Mass Effect to date"? I'd be amazed if I were wrong. Sure it's possible they could make an open world game, filled to the brink with story. But that'd have to be an absurd amount of story, and I don't have much faith in Bioware's writers these days to have a big open world game and still have the story paced well. 

 

If they go Open World, hopefully ME:A is just the launchpad for future games. Maybe Andromeda tells the story of people from the Milky Way settling in Andromeda, and then after this game there's a future trilogy that takes place way into the future in Andromeda. Which would be pretty cool.

[JeffZero]

I definitely understand your trepidation and even mirror it to an extent.

 

And yeah, hopefully the Helios Cluster is only the beginning of our tour in Andromeda, and there's a ton of properly "epic" setpiece narrative to come.

[Hathur]

That'd be a valid reason, for sure, yeah.

 

For me I just... need to know everything and be absorbed by everything. I can't play TW1 anymore, and when I tried 2, I was lost. And I think I felt a bit lost even when I tried 1. Those books... I feel I really, really need to read them first, and then play 1 and 2, because I'm OCD as hell about this stuff. And apparently, half the books aren't even translated yet, or something.

 

The worst.

 

Not entirely accurate. I played Witcher 1 & 2 before reading the books (all but the most recent are translated to english). The game actually has close to no connection to the books frankly, other than some minor details of Geralt's past and some parts about Ciri when she was a child. 

 

If you're feeling lost by the witcher 1 & 2 it's not because you didn't read the books (they won't help you understand the game / story any further since they aren't connected at all), the reason you likely are struggling (as many do it seems) is because the material is rather... dense. I love the writing in the game as it deals with complex ideas in the realities of "gray" as opposed to the overly convenient good / bad or that 99% of every game (dragon age included) deals with. Unfortunately because the game was written in polish and translated to english, it doesn't always transition with the greatest clarity. It is clear if you focus hard enough on what's going on, but the game / series definitely requires much much more attention by the player to properly follow people, places, events, lore etc. There's a great deal of it, a lot of it is complex, but if you treat the game like a novel where you need to pay close attention (as opposed to many games where you can often only passively focus on the narrative and still comprehend the majority of it with ease) then I suspect you'll no longer struggle following it and get to appreciate how unique (and incredible) this writing is for a game.

 

The game simply requires a greater level of focus by the player than most games... this may or may not be a shortcoming of the game, but once I realized I had to treat the game as if I were reading a book I was able to very thoroughly enjoy its excellent story telling. The problem is, it requires much more investment of attention to it than a game like Mass Effect or Dragon Age which can you can leisurely enjoy their narratives without having to focus intently upon the events etc.

[Inalt]

Large sounds terrible. I want a game like Mass Effect 2 and 3 and absolutely not a Mass Effect Inquisition. If Andromeda will be again an offline MMO I'm definitly out.

[von uber]

Here's the thing about the mako. The first time was amazing. The second less so. Now? Copy of the planet map in front of me, straightline to the points of interest in the quickest and most efficient way possible.
If the game is going to be more of that (and based on da:i and the tweets it may be) then it will not stand up to repeated playthroughs like the original trilogy does.
Yes me1 exploration is largely optional, but if me:a follows the route of expanding on it that will render the game largely optional filler, much like the assassins creed games. Which is fine for some I guess, but then why not just get that (or far cry).

[Mcfly616]

Options are nice. I'm sick of being herded from point A to point B. 

[Dantriges]

 

If you're feeling lost by the witcher 1 & 2 it's not because you didn't read the books (they won't help you understand the game / story any further since they aren't connected at all), the reason you likely are struggling (as many do it seems) is because the material is rather... dense. I love the writing in the game as it deals with complex ideas in the realities of "gray" as opposed to the overly convenient good / bad or that 99% of every game (dragon age included) deals with. Unfortunately because the game was written in polish and translated to english, it doesn't always transition with the greatest clarity. It is clear if you focus hard enough on what's going on, but the game / series definitely requires much much more attention by the player to properly follow people, places, events, lore etc.

 

Hm interesting, playing 1 right now and the only time I got lost was during the detective investigation in Wyzima but well I did it out of order anyways. Could be that the german translation is better.

[Mathias]

Options are nice. I'm sick of being herded from point A to point B. 

 

I never once felt in ME1-3 that I was being forced from point A to point B. Once the games opened up, which didn't take long, I had plenty of options to choose from. Now granted ME3's main storyline was more linear than the other two, as in you didn't have a choice to help the Quarians or the Krogan first, but you still had plenty of optional missions.

[Mathias]

Here's the thing about the mako. The first time was amazing. The second less so. Now? Copy of the planet map in front of me, straightline to the points of interest in the quickest and most efficient way possible.
If the game is going to be more of that (and based on da:i and the tweets it may be) then it will not stand up to repeated playthroughs like the original trilogy does.
Yes me1 exploration is largely optional, but if me:a follows the route of expanding on it that will render the game largely optional filler, much like the assassins creed games. Which is fine for some I guess, but then why not just get that (or far cry).

 

I'm replaying DA:I right now, with all the trials turned on in Hard mode. So I kinda need to do as much content as I can to make sure I'm strong enough to progress. And OMG I'm bored out of my mind doing a lot of the optional stuff. I have a podcast playing in the background trying to hold my attention. Sure when the game's interesting, it's interesting. But the busy work just overwhelms the good stuff. I wish I was playing DA:O, where stuff was happening.

 

This is what I can see happening in ME:A

 

• Tons of pointless fetch quests
• Collectibles spread out all over the map
• Upgrade system that requires minerals. How do you get them? Oh by traveling across the map and collecting them of course!
• Repetitive side missions
• Pacing issues with the Main Story
• Main Story itself is lackluster

 

Mostly speculation, I know. But I'd be shocked if some of those didn't come true. I guess we'll finally have a real idea on what this game's gonna be like by the end of the year. Bioware did say the game won't be like Inquisition, but they never went into detail how. Given how we've seen developers, Bioware included, spin their words, who knows what they mean. Sorry if I'm being cynical, but I've just grown really tired of this Open World trend.

[Mcfly616]

I never once felt in ME1-3 that I was being forced from point A to point B. Once the games opened up, which didn't take long, I had plenty of options to choose from. Now granted ME3's main storyline was more linear than the other two, as in you didn't have a choice to help the Quarians or the Krogan first, but you still had plenty of optional missions.

 I'm speaking of the extremely linear level design. One path made up of some corridors, one door at the end of each one. No branching paths to take. Just straight ahead, down a hallway. It's the same vibe as an on-rails shooting gallery.

[Mathias]

I'm speaking of the extremely linear level design. One path made up of some corridors, one door at the end of each one. No branching paths to take. Just straight ahead, down a hallway. It's the same vibe as an on-rails shooting gallery.

An on rails shooting gallery gives you one option to approach the situation, it's not the same. There were different ways to take on enemies, there were different areas of cover, there were moments that breaked away from combat, and there were different corridors to follow. There wasn't always an optional path, but they were there.

You had to go to point B, but it wasn't a literal hallway. If you want levels to be wider in design with different paths to take, that'd be great. I don't think that's the approach they're taking here.