80 réponses à ce sujet

[Qun00]

In regards to the original question - "Is playing non-Dalish a disservice to elvenkind" - I'm going to answer "no" because that strikes me as needlessly judgmental of players who went into this game without knowing what the revelations were going to be.

Furthermore, while I do think the elven experience is enhanced by the sheer amount of elf-focused content, I don't think the other options are lessened. Heck, without intending to do so, my dwarven Inquisitor has a very rich experience that is wholly unlike that of a Solasmancer. Believing herself the Herald of Andraste, dismissing the religion of the Stone as bunk, growing curiosity of elven culture she's exposed to... only for the first to be proven wrong after the first act, the second proven to have grounding (no pun intended) in Descent, and all the elven stuff leads up to a horrible truth.

Just because one isn't playing an elf doesn't mean the various revelations are meaningless to them...

Man... this is silly.

It's like making a thread that says "Cassandra is the best romance" and suddenly people react like "What? Are you saying the Josephine romance is crap??"

Those who feel offended so easily have none to blame but themselves.

[Cz-99]

I dislike the Dalish and all this DLC did was just confirm they're wrong about basically everything. Your ancestors destroyed themselves, one of your great leaders helped make it happen and is trying to destroy your current world/civilization, and the fact that you're not only discriminated against by humans - but by ancient elves as well - doesn't make an elf all too appealing to play, for me. 

 

On the other hand, as a human my character can now tell QQing elves to shut it 'cause compared to their ancestors' leaders and 'gods', human rule is peachy. Just makes it deliciously ironic to know that the big bad shems are gonna end up being the ones fighting to save the world and modern-day elves, while their brethren try to destroy them both.

 

Humans are a 'safe' race. There's probably never going to be a giant reveal that makes humans question their existence or their culture. They fit into every role and situation plainly but easily, and this makes it perfect to be a part of these giant events and uncover all of this new information without having any real investment in it. That's why I don't think any DA game - especially Inquisition - is made less interesting if played with a human protagonist.

 

In the end you can make a good case for any race/class/character type - 'cause the only thing that really matters is that you enjoy it.

[Kimarous]

Man... this is silly.

It's like making a thread that says "Cassandra is the best romance" and suddenly people react like "What? Are you saying the Josephine romance is crap??"

Those who feel offended so easily have none to blame but themselves.

 

What? You were the one who posed the title as a question... a question that outright asks "Is not playing a Dalish Inquisitor a disservice to elvenkind?" How does one not read that as an accusatory statement of "If you aren't playing Dalish, you are doing elves a disservice"?

 

Also, I'm not offended at all - I calmly disagreed and stated my reasons why. This response of yours is just dismissive of what I have to say. Your example equation is backwards, with "Why is Josephine's romance crap?" being met with a reply of "I disagree, and here's why."

 

...and then the OP of that thread dismissively waving that person off as an idiot.

[Bigdoser]

All of the elfy stuff actually made me like playing a human inquisitor more.  It was fun playing a character who undercut all of the big angsty, dramatic world-changing lore stuff by being like "meh, it's a hokey ancient religion and it's probably not what it seems, oh look, I was right (high fives Sera)."  Plus, I think it shows a lot more growth on Solas's part if an non-elf is the one who makes him realize people are actually people, as opposed to someone from a direct descendant race he's probably sleeping with.  

Same here but with my Qunari, I think a non elf showing him that the people of this world are actually people would be more of a shock to him. My qunari mage and solas were best buds because well he was pretty much a book worm and always open to new ideas. 

[ElementalFury106]

I feel like the story has a good balance between fitting for both Human and Elf Inquisitor(s).

 

A lot of aspects just seem to favor Human perspectives. From the speech and mannerisms of the Inquisitor, to the so called title "Herald of Andraste", to their reasoning to being at the Temple, to quests like Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts. I personally always feel most immersed/complete with playing through with a Human in Inquisition.

 

Yet Dalish Elves get quite a bit of incentive as well. Aside from DLC, which is unfair to count considering it's optional content, Elves get the huge Mythal revelation and a Solas romance.

 

In my opinion, both Humans and Elves fit very nicely into the story and have their pros. Dwarves and Qunari however, not so much. Even with the Descent and Trespasser DLC having to do with them. Still fun to play them though.

[Almostfaceman]

Honestly, I don't mind the revelations either way. Given I have no problem playing meta-divorced characters [Elgar'nan FTW!]. It was more a question of how easy human-PCs got off with out really ever having a challenge to their faith, whilst Bioware went out of its way to explicitly dismantle elven religion.

 

Bioware went out of its way to make sure that we all knew that the Dalish only held on to remnants of legends. Their whole reason to exist was to find out the truth of who they were, and Solas does that for my Dalish Inquisitor. To me it's a fulfillment, not a dismantling. 

[Qun00]

I feel like the story has a good balance between fitting for both Human and Elf Inquisitor(s).

A lot of aspects just seem to favor Human perspectives. From the speech and mannerisms of the Inquisitor, to the so called title "Herald of Andraste", to their reasoning to being at the Temple, to quests like Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts. I personally always feel most immersed/complete with playing through with a Human in Inquisition.

Yet Dalish Elves get quite a bit of incentive as well. Aside from DLC, which is unfair to count considering it's optional content, Elves get the huge Mythal revelation and a Solas romance.

In my opinion, both Humans and Elves fit very nicely into the story and have their pros. Dwarves and Qunari however, not so much. Even with the Descent and Trespasser DLC having to do with them. Still fun to play them though.

Ahh, but here is the thing. This thread isn't about the quality of the player's experience or whether it is fitting to play as an elf. I am speaking entirely from an in game perspective.

Let me further emphasize the only aspect I care about right now. It is the fact that this might be the only chance the Dalish will ever get to acquire life changing knowledge and come closer to their goal than they've ever been.

A Dalish Inquisitor is invested enough in this cause to go the extra mile and share all that has been revealed with the clans. Not to mention that they'd be more likely to listen.

Of course, this concern may never be addressed in the next games, but at least the possibility will exist.

[ElementalFury106]

Ahh, but here is the thing. This thread isn't about the quality of the player's experience or whether it is fitting to play as an elf. I am speaking entirely from an in game perspective.

Let me further emphasize the only aspect I care about right now. It is the fact that this might be the only chance the Dalish will ever get to acquire life changing knowledge and come closer to their goal than they've ever been.

A Dalish Inquisitor is invested enough in this cause to go the extra mile and share all that has been revealed with the clans. Not to mention that they'd be more likely to listen.

Of course, this concern may never be addressed in the next games, but at least the possibility will exist.

 

Either way, the Dalish will most likely learn all the secrets learned by the Inquisitor, Dalish or otherwise.

[WardenWade]

How bad would it to be a dalish warrior or rogue , romance solas and then discover to find that at first he didn't even consider you a real person

He does not initially considered a mage Lavellan a person either, unfortunately.  But fortunately he changes his mind on all of them...and I hope that bodes well for the future.

 

And regarding the OP, I think an elven perspective will be very important in the future, Dalish or not.  I wonder if it's becoming almost irrelevant whether the player character elf is Dalish or alienage, since so many are streaming to Fen'Harel and all are in the same boat, in terms of getting history wrong.  I personally like playing city elves, and I'll happily play whatever I can, particularly as regards seeing what Solas has planned...and seeing that it is ideally resolved well for all races (and gods; I'd like things to fall out alright for Solas as well).  They all have a stake in the future.

[Qun00]

Either way, the Dalish will most likely learn all the secrets learned by the Inquisitor, Dalish or otherwise.

Why do you believe so?

[Kimarous]

Ahh, but here is the thing. This thread isn't about the quality of the player's experience or whether it is fitting to play as an elf. I am speaking entirely from an in game perspective.

 

Ah... and therein lies the confusion. This point was not entirely clear from the original post, hence why I responded to the topic as I did.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Why do you believe so?

The trespasser epilogue has pretty much confirms the Inquisitor told other people about Solas. No doubt that particular information would get to the Dalish, and that's assuming they aren't part of the elves going to join Solas' army.

[berelinde]

For me, playing a Dalish Inquisitor is a disservice to elvenkind. I tend to run elves only slightly less assimilated than Sera: If you're digging it up because you like to dig, cool, rock on! But if you're digging it up to wear it... ew.

 

I mean, I get it. Elves lost their culture and they're trying to recreate it any way they can, but it's a lot like a blind man trying to describe an elephant by touch. It was never going to be an accurate picture. And don't you dare claim it's "authentic," because that's as much cultural appropriation as a human claiming special dwarven status because some great grandmother somewhere nine generations back was short. That doesn't mean that lore is unimportant or that the Dalish shouldn't try to rediscover their past. But by all that's holy, don't claim to know it all along.

[Qun00]

Ah... and therein lies the confusion. This point was not entirely clear from the original post, hence why I responded to the topic as I did.

I understand I could have chosen a better title. It may sound more aggressive than it was intended.

[Eterna]

Elves are so preachy. 

[LobselVith8]

For me, playing a Dalish Inquisitor is a disservice to elvenkind. I tend to run elves only slightly less assimilated than Sera: If you're digging it up because you like to dig, cool, rock on! But if you're digging it up to wear it... ew.

I mean, I get it. Elves lost their culture and they're trying to recreate it any way they can, but it's a lot like a blind man trying to describe an elephant by touch. It was never going to be an accurate picture. And don't you dare claim it's "authentic," because that's as much cultural appropriation as a human claiming special dwarven status because some great grandmother somewhere nine generations back was short. That doesn't mean that lore is unimportant or that the Dalish shouldn't try to rediscover their past. But by all that's holy, don't claim to know it all along.

They don't claim to know it all. The codex on Arlathan concedes they don't know the truth about what happened to Arlathan, and that the story they know is a legend and could be wrong. Merrill talks about how the Sabrae Clan doesn't know which side summoned Audacity - the ancient elves or the Tevinter humans. Merrill also mentions that her people don't know who started the war between the Creators and the Forgotten Ones. They're already cognizant about the limitations of their knowledge; they don't pretend otherwise.

[Amne YA]

sorry but not really  giving a **** about the elf  .the only reason i made  an elf inquistor  was for the solas romance cause they  it add some stuf .
but  human and dwarfs   are my fav 

[Vit246]

For me, playing a Dalish Inquisitor is a disservice to elvenkind. I tend to run elves only slightly less assimilated than Sera: If you're digging it up because you like to dig, cool, rock on! But if you're digging it up to wear it... ew.

 

I mean, I get it. Elves lost their culture and they're trying to recreate it any way they can, but it's a lot like a blind man trying to describe an elephant by touch. It was never going to be an accurate picture. And don't you dare claim it's "authentic," because that's as much cultural appropriation as a human claiming special dwarven status because some great grandmother somewhere nine generations back was short. That doesn't mean that lore is unimportant or that the Dalish shouldn't try to rediscover their past. But by all that's holy, don't claim to know it all along.

 

I don't know about you, but its not like the modern Dalish vallaslin tattoos are any less authentic then the ancient tattoos just because they meant something a little bit different over a thousand years ago in a different context. Cultures change and evolve. And really, "cultural appropriation"? Its their culture by heritage, they're allowed to reclaim and re-purpose parts of their culture.

[Rekkampum]

Also aesthetic reasons for me. Lavellan looks so slim and beautiful next to Trevelyan (especially wearing pajamas), and there's Solas romance, and so much lore... well, I don't think I could play anyone but Lavellan female mage - conscious connection to the Fade included.

 

You mean, "looks so emaciated and anorexic". Every time I see my Lavellan I want to feed her something.

[ComedicSociopathy]

What's all this about humans not being questioned about their faith? 

 

Definite proof about the exist or non-existence of the Maker hasn't been proven sure, but the Chant claims that it was the Maker that created the Veil and divided the Fade from Thedas. We know that know to be wrong now. So, if that turned out be false what else about the Chant could be bullcrap as well? 

[TheBlackAdder13]

What's all this about humans not being questioned about their faith? 

 

Definite proof about the exist or non-existence of the Maker hasn't been proven sure, but the Chant claims that it was the Maker that created the Veil and divided the Fade from Thedas. We know that know to be wrong now. So, if that turned out be false what else about the Chant could be bullcrap as well? 

 

Yeah, it's kind of disappointing that this wasn't really addressed in the DLC. Divine Victoria and the Herald of Andraste have some serious theological gymnastics to do. It could be interpreted as Solas was unknowingly acting on behalf of the Maker, etc, etc, etc.

[Queen Kong]

Yeah, it's kind of disappointing that this wasn't really addressed in the DLC. Divine Victoria and the Herald of Andraste have some serious theological gymnastics to do. It could be interpreted as Solas was unknowingly acting on behalf of the Maker, etc, etc, etc.

Why would they addressed that? Chant claims the Maker created the Fade, then the physical world (Earth) Not a single mention about the Veil in any codex entry.

[TheBlackAdder13]

Why would they addressed that? Chant claims the Maker created the Fade, then the physical world (Earth) Not a single mention about the Veil in any codex entry.

 

Except we learn in Trespasser that the fade and physical world were pretty fluid with each other pre-veil, meaning spirits and elves could presumably cross between the two at leisure. This contradicts Chantry teachings that spirits became demons as they became jealous of the permanence of the physical world.

[ComedicSociopathy]

Why would they addressed that? Chant claims the Maker created the Fade, then the physical world (Earth) Not a single mention about the Veil in any codex entry.

 

Not a direct mention, but...

 

And He knew he had wrought amiss.
So the Maker turned from his firstborn
And took from the Fade
A measure of its living flesh
And placed it apart from the Spirits, and spoke to it, saying:
Here, I decree
Opposition in all things:
For earth, sky
For winter, summer
For darkness, Light.
By My Will alone is Balance sundered
And the world given new life.

[almasy87]

I played a Trevelyan first.

But after playing a Lavellan, I have decided that's my canon. Everything that happens (fade stuff, elven magic orbs, Elven gods, Temple of Mythal, Valasslins, stuff about Fen'harel paired with Solas' romance) honestly make this best suited for a Mage Dalish Quizzy in my opinion. I also feel like a human would not care as much or take it as personally as a Dalish can do.

My Trevelyan is happily married and retired with Cullen, so for what matters she could as well not give a damn about it and not feel as involved.... While Lavellan kept thinking about Solas for the past 2 years, I'm pretty sure Trevelyan didn't give it much thought, to her it just feels like "well he went his way, must have had something to do".

Plus aesthetically, I agree, Lavellans look prettier