2389 réponses à ce sujet

[gothpunkboy89]

The reapers only attacked because it was an AI's solution.
Synthesis is literally the best ending for reasons that would take me awhile to explain

No need to go into detailed explanations. They shoot it down with two words: Morally Wrong. Which pulls this into a question of morality. Which has no real true answer. And in hide sight a really good way to go for this game. There is no right or wrong ending. Just what you think is morally justified.

 

Fun to debate at that point as long as you don't expect anyone's ideas to change. I love a good debate even if it doesn't end up doing anything.

[jerrmy13]

No need to go into detailed explanations. They shoot it down with two words: Morally Wrong. Which pulls this into a question of morality. Which has no real true answer. And in hide sight a really good way to go for this game. There is no right or wrong ending. Just what you think is morally justified.
 
Fun to debate at that point as long as you don't expect anyone's ideas to change. I love a good debate even if it doesn't end up doing anything.

i say it's the best ending because of what happens, synthetics get understanding, organics evolve, no synthetic war, reapers are now friendly, etc.

[AlanC9]

As for the stargazer scene, it's stupid for some Shepards. It loses it's charm when an old man is telling bedtime stories to a kid, about how my Shep lit people on fire, commited genocide, executed people on their knees, forced them to drink poison, and racked up a body count that might've been in the thousands. Among other things. It's a big afterthought on the creator/writers' part.. like they didn't take into account much of anything many players did. It only works for people who buy into the feelgood sentiments that it was going for... People who fancied themselves Paragon Soldier Jesus. "The Shepard". The rest of us were just playing something like an 80s action movie. More like Die Hard and Ripley from Aliens, at best. I don't hate, but I gotta laugh a bit. It's absurd.

Sure, it's absurd. It's also true. No matter how much of a body count Shepard racked up, no matter how morally questionable her actions were, she's still going to be remembered as the hero who saved the galaxy. If people in the future feel the need to tell lies about what she did, then they'll tell those lies. We were able to pretend for centuries that Columbus was something other than a murderous imperialist slaver, right?

[KotorEffect3]

While I find that both synthesis and control have fascinating ramifications for the galaxy (also amused by the concept of benevolent reapers), I believe destroy is the best option overall because it removes the reaper threat permanently, control is too much power for one person, and synthesis alters every lifeform in the galaxy whether it wants to be altered or not.

[Reorte]

No need to go into detailed explanations. They shoot it down with two words: Morally Wrong. Which pulls this into a question of morality. Which has no real true answer. And in hide sight a really good way to go for this game. There is no right or wrong ending. Just what you think is morally justified.

Which is true for everything except questions about pure logic, maths, physics etc. Absolutely everything else boils down to morality and desirability.

[Motherlander]

Sorry. I have not read through most of the posts. But I wanted to respond to the OPs question which I think is interesting and valid.

In my current play through, my Shep decides to cure the genophage (despite reservations) and wants to save the geth as part of her general philosophy. On that basis, the destroy option is not really valid.

1) It will involve destroying Edi and the geth which this Shep would refuse to do.

2) With the genophage cured, my Shep will be concerned that the Krogan will rebel again. Although, Shep trusts Wrex, there is always a chance he will eventually lose control of them, especially as the Krogan population explodes. This would happen in 5 years or 500 years, but there is a good chance the Krogan will cause problems in the future.

3) One of the forces that could potentially help blunt a Krogan attack, is the geth. With the geth gone, the Krogan would have one less potential enemy to contend with.

On the basis above, the logical option is control. Shep saves the geth and can use the reapers (if necessary) to passify any future Krogan threat.

Of course, choosing control has huge risks. We don't know how Shep's consciousness will evolve and survive as time goes by and the people Shep was connected to eventually die off. Perhaps she will lose control and restart the cycle. Perhaps on the other hand she will be able to assert more control as time goes on and be able to decommission the reapers.

These are unknowns. But the story ends with the (immediate) Reaper threat ended and there is hope for the future. It is possible that Shep's hope is misguided, but that just shows that she is still human. On the other hand, others will say she has been indoctrinated. That is not in my narrative, but it may be a consideration for others.

[Motherlander]

I assumed direct control of the Reapers to curb stomp the Leviathans. Because seriously, they have it coming.
"Apex of organic life" my robocrustacien ass!
Besides, no one said ReaperShep can't clone himself a new body, stick a control implant in the back of its head, and direct things personally. However, this might require dodging some Claymore fire if you decide to ring Tali's doorbell on Rannoch .
 
Oh well, that's my headcannon and I'm sticking to it!

I absolutely love this scenario. What better way to save the galaxy than by getting the reapers and levanthians to mutually destroy each other in one final epic war. The other races can sit back and get the popcorn out as the two engage in a joyous festival of self-annihilation. Assuming Shep doesn't have an auto-destruct button, then one way to destroy the reapers would be to launch a massive frontal attack on the levanthians.

And you make a good point about putting Shep in another body. In fact, why not find that dead Clone and reactivate the Lazarus project. You can upload the consciousness into a clone Shepard.

Bingo, you could have a lot of dead Reapers and one living Shep. Ideally, if Shep shows enough deliberate incompetence in the war against the Levanthians, she could get every Reaper killed and still have a body.

[Motherlander]

Changeing their biochemistry I don't see the issue with. Unless there is proof of dramatic shift in their personality and actions. I.E a normal every day citizen suddenly becomes a serial killer with no remorse or sympahty. Killing who ever and what ever they want when and how ever they want.

I found this post interesting.

It actually occurs to me that the arguments for against Synthesis can be used against curing the genophage. One argument against, Synthesis is that you impose changes on everyone's physical composition. When you cure the genophage, you are impossing a cure on every Krogan on the planet, whether they want it or not. Who knows, perhaps some Krogan don't want to be cured. Yet Shep gives it to them whether they like it or not.

Now the argument for the genophage is that "It is for your own good." That argument can equally apply to Synthesis.

I think a lot depends on how each of us see Synthesis. If you have the view that it turns everyone into cyborgs, then that is not that pleasant.

If you have the view, that the changes are broadly cosmetic, basically to fool the reapers, then it it is less of a concern. From what I saw, I had the impression that synthesis had a greater impact on synthetics, effectively turning them into mortals. While the effect on organics was more cosmetic.


To be honest, the synthesis in itself is not my greatest concern. I can create my own interpretation that is acceptable if I want to. My two main concerns are as follows:

1) My first objection is actually more to do with politics than anything else. The reapers still exist as independent thinking creatures. Although they may not be initially hostile, they are still the most dominant force in the galaxy. They will also regard themselves as top of the food chain. So although they may cease the cycle, they may still want to dominate the lesser races. On the other hand, it is possible the end of the cycle could break the Reapers's unity and they could also fight each other as they take opposing philosophical positions. But I can't see how that would stop conflict in the future.

2) My second objection is that I hate that sickly green glow and the green eyes caused by synthesis. If the cosmetic effect didn't repulse me so much, I might accept it more. This is of course a personal taste issue. If you like the green glow, then I can imagine synthesis being appealing.

[FlyingSquirrel]

I've been wondering why to some people it was logical to choose other options over the destroy ending - because as Shepard you are tasked to save the galaxy and "destroy" the reapers.

 

From your first encounter with Sovereign the galaxy knows that reapers can be destroyed with conventional methods (theoretically) - so when you are finally presented with a choice - why would you have a sudden change of heart and choose the other endings?

 

The simple answer for me is that I now have a lot more information than I did when all of this started. I don't think Shepard ever completely rules out the possibility of ending the conflict without destroying all of the Reapers, at least not in the dialogue choices I picked - there's the "What do you want from us?" line with Sovereign and there are the "we've earned a straight answer" / "organics and synthetics don't have to destroy each other" lines with the Rannoch Reaper. Between the Catalyst and the Leviathans, neither of whom seem to be lying, I now know how the cycles began, to what extent the Reapers can even be considered responsible for this (not much, if at all), and the high collateral damage cost of the Destroy option.

[Pavan]

I chose synthesis first because ----------- I am not killing EDI and the Geth - they are sentient, that is genocide and I always play roleplaying games  making the choices I would make irl.

 

Synthesis stops the conflict between synthetics and organics FOREVER and saves the most amount of lives.

 

Downside - SHepherd definitley dies and can't spend the rest of his relaxing with his friends and loved ones, enjoying the fame they have all earned.

 

 

 

What I do now is I always use the MEHEM mod - which is basically: Reapers destroyed, Geth and Edi survive (the catalysts signal affected only the reapers and those they were controlling). SHepherd survives, he is saved by joker and crew in the last minute - he then goes on to enjoy life with his firends (and Miranda ;P) as the famous hero he is.

 

Downside - sometimes crashes right at the end when SHepherd is putting Andersons name on the memorial.

 

*All hail modders, you beautiful people you*

[ThomasBlaine]

I think a hardcore Renegade Shepard could conceivably decide to try and take control of the Reapers, and a pretty pro-synthetics Shep might well do the same or go Synthesis, but it's very hard to roleplay Shepard plausibly as that extreme to one side or the other through the games.

 

I did the Synthesis ending one time with a VERY idealistic Paragon Shep, and the Refuse ending was plausible enough with another due to the lack of perfect options, faith in the awesome fleet, dubious trustworthiness of the Catalyst and so on, although I didn't feel that the game rewarded me for the latter. I've never played a Shepard who I thought would be confident enough to try and take control though. And yeah, Destroy works most of the time. After all, they really are just machines.

[Dani86]

Personally, don't like control or synthesis. Power corrupts and it would eventually corrupt Shepard as well. As for synthesis, there are too many unknowns. You are basically killing every person in the galaxy and replacing them with something else and they have no say in the matter. Can these new reaper-creatures still reproduce? Are they still individuals or are they borg-like creatures, all networked together? Not to mention, the Catalyst, who has tortured, maimed and murdered trillions of men women and children for a billion years, wants you to do it. And all of it because of an assumption (not proven) by the Leviathan. The Leviathan, who enslaved everyone in their time and thought they were better than everyone else, created this nightmare because of their own hubris. Destroy is not a perfect solution because of the loss of the geth but it is the only real solution in my mind.   

[Keltic]

Just completed another playthrough of the trilogy again, This time like i generally prefer to do i the choose the destroy ending as its the one the catalyst plays down the most. He states that destroy will destroy all synthetic tech in the galaxy including Shepard. I've always wonderd if Destroy is truly the right ending and if the big old crap storm that blew at the time had not happened would some more dlc been forthcoming that expanded the endings anyway as to be honest i felt Bioware are too good at story telling to end things like that.

Anyway thats long dead history and for me destroy works and the sudden movement of Shepard at the end sequence makes me think that maybe he and other synthetics had survived as lets be honest most of Shepards upgrades are integral to his survival and if he survived maybe the Geth and other synthetic life survived. Whatever the general view is thats whats in my head and its staying there.

[SentinelMacDeath]

I always think about what Mordin said about overcoming limitations and with it comes advancement and without those limitations a culture will stagnate .. I think that is the inevitable end of the Synthesis choice ... stagnation. Even with all the accumulated knowledge of the cultures before ... they were harvested at a certain point and once all that knowledge is used up ... what then?

 

What happens if the former organic life forms can't die anymore, that's what organic life does, it dies to make room for new life, decomposes to nurture new life. Would they still be considered organic life? What about the planets themselves that rely on that cycle of organic life.

 

It's too much "what if" for me to allow the Reapers to be alive. I don't trust the kid, never will. They turned themselves into synthetics to not allow synthetics to dominate organics which was really what they were doing all along ... Heck, Shepard managed to broker peace between organics and synthetics without killing everyone so it's possible with a little bit of empathy. 

 

So yeah, Reapers always die in my playthroughs (just not that one time where i shot the kid in the head by mistake)

[ThomasBlaine]

-Wrong Thread--

Modifié par ThomasBlaine, 06 décembre 2015 - 11:27 .

[rossler]

I chose synthesis first because ----------- I am not killing EDI and the Geth - they are sentient, that is genocide and I always play roleplaying games  making the choices I would make irl.

 

The difference here is that Mass Effect 3 is a fictional game. All role-playing games are set in a fictional universe. So making choices you'd make in real life (non-fiction) doesn't apply here.

[gothpunkboy89]

To be honest, the synthesis in itself is not my greatest concern. I can create my own interpretation that is acceptable if I want to. My two main concerns are as follows:

1) My first objection is actually more to do with politics than anything else. The reapers still exist as independent thinking creatures. Although they may not be initially hostile, they are still the most dominant force in the galaxy. They will also regard themselves as top of the food chain. So although they may cease the cycle, they may still want to dominate the lesser races. On the other hand, it is possible the end of the cycle could break the Reapers's unity and they could also fight each other as they take opposing philosophical positions. But I can't see how that would stop conflict in the future.

2) My second objection is that I hate that sickly green glow and the green eyes caused by synthesis. If the cosmetic effect didn't repulse me so much, I might accept it more. This is of course a personal taste issue. If you like the green glow, then I can imagine synthesis being appealing.

 

1) In control ending the new Shep AI is still the dominate force in the galaxy. Any one crosses the line and he has the entire Reaper Army to crush them.  So this isn't limited to synthesis ending. How ever it is stated that since the gap between organics and synthetics is removed the AI orders all Reapers to stand down and share their information with the galaxy as well as help rebuild. The only reason the Reapers exist in the first place is because the AI couldn't pull off synthesis before. Reapers were plan B. Not plan A. And that is one the the most beautiful things about this trilogy that so many people over look.

 

The AI didn't want the Reapers to exist but given the limitations it was facing was it's only choice.

 

2) Green was used because it resembles and reminds people of circuit boards my guess.

[Kookoo]

I also always choose "Destroy". Simply because it's the only thing that makes sense to me. Sure it's bad that the geth and EDI "die". But they are hardware. Even the catalyst mentions that things can be repaired. So I assume that we can simply repair them. Synthesis is the only Ending I could consider, but I think it's too many unknowns there. What happens when life reaches its pinacle? Will people still have a free will afterwards? I dunno, just doesn't seem right to me.

Also I didn't want my Shep to die. He deserved to live more than anyone else. And most of all, I simply dont trust the starchild. How can I be sure that he is not just fooling me? How do I know that he knows everything better? Hes an AI that lived completely isolated for probably millions of years, so how does he know anything?

 

But sadly, the ending wasn't that great either way. It was fine with the extended DLC but not the one I hoped for. Especially because it leaves to many variables. I don't see Bioware ever doing a game that plays in our galaxy after the ME3 endings. I would have loved an ending that made it possible to do so. Only two choices. Fail or win.

My perfect ending would have been something like the end of the third lord of the rings movie. Reapers destroyed, Shep survives, lays in a hospital and one friend at a time comes in to see him, like with frodo.

Of course it would have been a little generic, but I'd loved that. And something like that wouldn't have made a sequel almost impossible.

[rossler]

And most of all, I simply dont trust the starchild. How can I be sure that he is not just fooling me?

 

It's a Reaper. There's no reason to trust anything it says.

[dorktainian]

It's a Reaper. There's no reason to trust anything it says.

 

Why anyone still disputes this is amazing.

 

It's not a 'Catalyst', it's a murdering genocidal maniac machine from hell.  

[Dani86]

Why anyone still disputes this is amazing.

 

It's not a 'Catalyst', it's a murdering genocidal maniac machine from hell.  

 

Couldn't agree more. We know from the cut scenes that the galaxy lives happily ever after regardless of which is chosen but how could Shepard possibly know that he could actually control the reapers or that everyone would be synthesized into happy individuals capable of independent thought rather than reaper-pawns? He has only the word of the genocidal maniac machine (created by a megalomaniac race that virtually enslaved everyone for millions of years before that)  that has killed, mutilated and murdered all advanced organic for a billion years. At least *our* scientist thought that the crucible could destroy the reapers so that is the only option that isn't a complete leap of faith.   

[rossler]

The scene with the kid is working as intended.

[Mlady]

It's a shame EDI and the Geth die, but I always choose Destroy. EDI was a good friend, but was also the Lunar VI gone rogue and the Geth too were something that oneday might lose control again. We could always rebuild too as implied, so to me they can be rebuilt in time and watched over better than before, but destroying the Reapers was always Shepard's intention and what had to be done to end the cycle for good. Anything that keeps the Reapers around I won't ever trust. Anything that is a machine can be reprogrammed, so I am against Control because I doubt Shepard's thoughts would remain as time went on, and merging them with organics feels like a forced choice without consent, not to mention the Catalyst really wanted either Control or Syntheses, which tells me uh no... not gonna happen!

 

Ah... but that's just my opinion. We all have different views on the ending. 

[SentinelMacDeath]

digging deeper into the DLCs I will never be able to pick anything other than destroy. Every Reaper out there is 1 civilization that got wiped out and there are so many Reapers. 

 

Never trust the machine that tells you that it only wants to protect the organics from the machines conveniently by killing off all organics instead of the machines. Leaving stuff behind to speed up the harvest even. Whatever you say synth... you can go straight to synth hell. 

[CronoDragoon]

You'd choose Control over Destroy if you felt that the potential risk of keeping the Reapers around was worth saving many lives. Not just synthetic ones, but organic ones, too: with the Reapers around, Shepard-AI can rebuild the relays quickly to get the galactic supply line back up and running to places that can't support themselves like Omega.