2523 réponses à ce sujet

[gothpunkboy89]

And the option to let her decide for herself was there for a reason. Freedom of choice should not be violated, even if consequences would be for the greater good.

 

She decides to get the treatment. So telling her to get it or letting her choose on her own still comes to the same set up. So your argument is based on the illusion of choice.

 

the final sentence I'm not sure if it is a joke or you just don't understand what you are saying. Freedom of choice gets violated all the time both for greater good and not so good. Your statement is literally saying it is ok for someone to kill someone else because it was a decision they made all on their own. And their actions shouldn't be restricted or punished because it would be violating it even though it would be for the greater good.

 

I mean I know I have a very cynical out look on life but sweet Elder Jas I never justified mass murders before.

[Iakus]

She decides to get the treatment. So telling her to get it or letting her choose on her own still comes to the same set up. So your argument is based on the illusion of choice.

 

  

There' s no difference between recommending a treatment, letting her choose for herself, or sneaking up behind her, knocking her out, and forcing the treatment on her without her consent?

[gothpunkboy89]

There' s no difference between recommending a treatment, letting her choose for herself, or sneaking up behind her, knocking her out, and forcing the treatment on her without her consent?

Depends what is at stake.

 

The flu? Let her pick.

 

Zombie Virus that has wiped out a quarter of the world? No choice get the treatment regardless of what she wants.

[Elhanan]

Yes, submission.  You must either allow the Reapers to rule over all other races for all eternity, or allow the genetic modification of all life to fit into the Aryan Reaper "ideal" of what constitutes a superior form of life

Nope; Destruction of the species still remains an option for Shep, so the choice for peace between synthetics and organics is also a free willed choice. Reapers do not dominate organics, but work with them; much like the possible example of the Geth & Quarians seen earlier.

[Iakus]

Nope; Destruction of the species still remains an option for Shep, so the choice for peace between synthetics and organics is also a free willed choice. Reapers do not dominate organics, but work with them; much like the possible example of the Geth & Quarians seen earlier.

 

Reapers work with the new green ubermensch of the galaxy you mean.

[Elhanan]

Reapers work with the new green ubermensch of the galaxy you mean.

Would not know; play the English version of the game....

[BloodyMares]

She decides to get the treatment. So telling her to get it or letting her choose on her own still comes to the same set up. So your argument is based on the illusion of choice.

 

the final sentence I'm not sure if it is a joke or you just don't understand what you are saying. Freedom of choice gets violated all the time both for greater good and not so good. Your statement is literally saying it is ok for someone to kill someone else because it was a decision they made all on their own. And their actions shouldn't be restricted or punished because it would be violating it even though it would be for the greater good.

 

I mean I know I have a very cynical out look on life but sweet Elder Jas I never justified mass murders before.

It doesn't look like you understand the meaning of "freedom". You make an example of the choice to kill but what about the victim's choice to live? Your personal freedom ends when the freedom of the others starts. You can choose to kill someone BUT in this case you will be responsible for the negative consequences. The freedom of choice means you can do anything you want that applies only to yourself. Synthesis violates the freedom of every sentient being in the galaxy and you can't justify that by saying the alternatives were worse because there were better alternatives.

[Elhanan]

It doesn't look like you understand the meaning of "freedom". You make an example of the choice to kill but what about the victim's choice to live? Your personal freedom ends when the freedom of the others starts. You can choose to kill someone BUT in this case you will be responsible for the negative consequences. The freedom of choice means you can do anything you want that applies only to yourself. Synthesis violates the freedom of every sentient being in the galaxy and you can't justify that by saying the alternatives were worse because there were better alternatives.

Certainly can; gave our lives in order to make that choice. Our lives instead of every other one; appears to be a suitable goal to me.

[Natureguy85]

Elhanan just likes the whitewashed "everything is sunshine and rainbows" ending that Synthesis is. It's terrible writing and incredibly stupid but it was presented as "yay awesome." Because it was presented without the unfortunate implications, he will never see them. He's chosen to ignore all that came before the Catalyst and accept only what it says. There is no shaking him from that. I'd forget about it.

 

 

 

We also have the capability for a higher degree of thought and reason.

 

Some of us do. Others make posts like yours.

[Elhanan]

And folks say that nothing good can come from closing the forums....

[gothpunkboy89]

And folks say that nothing good can come from closing the forums....

 

Nothing good will come from it. No need to ruin everyone's fun just because a few people get a little to salty every now and then.

[gothpunkboy89]

It doesn't look like you understand the meaning of "freedom". You make an example of the choice to kill but what about the victim's choice to live? Your personal freedom ends when the freedom of the others starts. You can choose to kill someone BUT in this case you will be responsible for the negative consequences. The freedom of choice means you can do anything you want that applies only to yourself. Synthesis violates the freedom of every sentient being in the galaxy and you can't justify that by saying the alternatives were worse because there were better alternatives.

 

Well your example with the mother she is making a choice that will effect the life of the child for the better or worse. Depending on any possible side effects. And yet based on your reply you support her making that choice that strips any choice away from the child.

 

So what is it? Are people allowed to make choices for other people or are they not?

 

You continually try to turn this into a pure black and white argument and yet you seem to miss the thousands of shades of gray that exist in the world.

[Iakus]

Elhanan just likes the whitewashed "everything is sunshine and rainbows" ending that Synthesis is. It's terrible writing and incredibly stupid but it was presented as "yay awesome." Because it was presented without the unfortunate implications, he will never see them. He's chosen to ignore all that came before the Catalyst and accept only what it says. There is no shaking him from that. I'd forget about it.

 

That whitewashing made EC all the more chilling to me.

 

@Elhanan look up "ubermensch" and its historical connotations.  Then compare to what the Reapers have been doing and the Catalyst's offer.  I can't believe ten professional writers and who knows how many other directors and such didn't see the unfortunate implications of this so-called "optimal ending"

[Elhanan]

That whitewashing made EC all the more chilling to me.
 
@Elhanan look up "ubermensch" and its historical connotations.  Then compare to what the Reapers have been doing and the Catalyst's offer.  I can't believe ten professional writers and who knows how many other directors and such didn't see the unfortunate implications of this so-called "optimal ending"

Don't require the research, as I was not expecting any optimal ending. I simply choose the one that is best for my various non-Renegade Shepard's, and that is Synthesis the vast majority of the time. Only chose the others once each; both seem too self-centered or worse to me.

[Elhanan]

Nothing good will come from it. No need to ruin everyone's fun just because a few people get a little to salty every now and then.

Sure there is: others will not have to endure me any longer, nor I them. Blow off the dust to find the vein of silver...

[BloodyMares]

Well your example with the mother she is making a choice that will effect the life of the child for the better or worse. Depending on any possible side effects. And yet based on your reply you support her making that choice that strips any choice away from the child.

 

So what is it? Are people allowed to make choices for other people or are they not?

 

You continually try to turn this into a pure black and white argument and yet you seem to miss the thousands of shades of gray that exist in the world.

The child was in the womb  so it was the mother's choice to make. That's why abortions are allowed as well.

Ideally they shouldn't but there are exceptions like when the other person is incapable of making choices (a baby, or a person with disabilities etc). You know how society works and when it allowes to make choices for others.

You're one to talk. Who blames the Geth for every questionable thing they do to make them look like a villian of the story? 

[gothpunkboy89]

The child was in the womb  so it was the mother's choice to make. That's why abortions are allowed as well.

Ideally they shouldn't but there are exceptions like when the other person is incapable of making choices (a baby, or a person with disabilities etc). You know how society works and when it allowes to make choices for others.

You're one to talk. Who blames the Geth for every questionable thing they do to make them look like a villian of the story? 

 

Lady was way to pregnant for even the most liberal abortion clinic to do anything.

 

And yet at that point everyone else in the galaxy is incapable of making choices. The Catalyst puts the entire weight on Shepard's shoulders to pick. They lack the ability to and to choose not to pick results in the death of everyone. So why again do you complain about Synthesis ending?

 

Oh yes I blame the Geth for their actions and inaction that have lead to problems. Because that is the point. We are dealing with a race who's entire set up and mentality differ so vastly from other organic races that there will be problems. These problems can lead to conflict. Conflict leads to death. Death can lead to either side coming to the conclusion the only way they will be safe is if the other side is dead.

[BloodyMares]

Lady was way to pregnant for even the most liberal abortion clinic to do anything.

 

And yet at that point everyone else in the galaxy is incapable of making choices. The Catalyst puts the entire weight on Shepard's shoulders to pick. They lack the ability to and to choose not to pick results in the death of everyone. So why again do you complain about Synthesis ending?

But still, it's her body and she decides what to do with it. Shepard can convince her but he can't force her or make the choice for her.

Yes, it's now or never. But Shepard could always think about what would others think about his decision. Is it worth it? Is it absolutely necessary? And in this case it's not. There are Destroy and Control that don't change everyone and everything with unknown (at the time) implications. My problem with Synthesis (and Control to a lesser extent) is that it's thematically wrong. Nowhere in the trilogy there was a message that diversity is bad. It was the opposite. The lack of diversity killed the Protheans. Synthesis is not required for synthetics to understand organics. EDI showed organic qualities very good on her own: humour and love towards Joker. And nor it's needed to stop conflicts between organics and synthetics. Quarians and the Geth managed that.

[Shechinah]

The child was in the womb  so it was the mother's choice to make. That's why abortions are allowed as well.

 

If I may, to elaborate on this point: the child, at this stage in development, is incapable of making a choice. The only person of the two capable of making a choice is the mother.

 

Now, had the child been born and been significantly older then that would be a different matter with different things to take into consideration.

[rossler]

That whitewashing made EC all the more chilling to me.

 

@Elhanan look up "ubermensch" and its historical connotations.  Then compare to what the Reapers have been doing and the Catalyst's offer.  I can't believe ten professional writers and who knows how many other directors and such didn't see the unfortunate implications of this so-called "optimal ending"

 

Bioware enjoys the sight of you picking synthesis and letting the Reapers do what they came here to do.

[Elhanan]

Bioware enjoys the sight of you picking synthesis and letting the Reapers do what they came here to do.

Galactic peace? Agreed....

[Iakus]

Galactic peace? Agreed....

You know what other story ended in peace?

 

The Stepford Wives.

[rossler]

In order for that peace to happen, you had to let them implant you with Reaper tech. Synthesis is the final evolution of life. The final evolution of life for a Reaper is a Reaper.

 

Early on in the game, the Reapers put a peace deal on the table, and some organics took it, but they were fooled. The Reapers let them onto their ships only to be indoctrinated. Like in ME1, where they said the longer you stay aboard Sovereign, the higher chance of being indoctrinated. A couple seconds won't hurt though. 

[Natureguy85]

That whitewashing made EC all the more chilling to me.

 

@Elhanan look up "ubermensch" and its historical connotations.  Then compare to what the Reapers have been doing and the Catalyst's offer.  I can't believe ten professional writers and who knows how many other directors and such didn't see the unfortunate implications of this so-called "optimal ending"

 

My point is that there is nothing to argue about. It's awful writing but it is what it is. Synthesis doesn't have the consequences or implications that it should. Oh well.

[Elhanan]

You know what other story ended in peace?
 
The Stepford Wives.

Skipped both versions; still choose Synthesis for ME3.