2389 réponses à ce sujet

[Han Shot First]

You'd choose Control over Destroy if you felt that the potential risk of keeping the Reapers around was worth saving many lives. Not just synthetic ones, but organic ones, too: with the Reapers around, Shepard-AI can rebuild the relays quickly to get the galactic supply line back up and running to places that can't support themselves like Omega.

 

The issue with Control, besides the obvious risks associated with keeping the Reapers around, is that you have to trust the word of the A.I. controlling the Reapers that everything will work out just peachy, if only you kill yourself first.

 

From an in universe perspective Shepard choosing any option where the Reapers' master tells him or her to commit suicide, just doesn't make sense. It is one of many reasons why the endings to the series were poorly written. 

[obbie31]

I haven't read all of the posts here, but I wanted to drop my thoughts. I respect people's feelings towards the ending. However, I feel the Synthesis ending is by far the worst ending. It just makes very little sense to me. How can Shepard's energy allow the Crucible to turn people in the perfect being so that Reapers won't need to harvest anymore? Its to far fetched or an ending and its actually a bit silly. I also feel that ending gives into what the Reapers want. I noticed that when talking to the Catalyst, if you don't have the Synthesis option, he is actually kind of rude and dismissive towards you. But when you do, he's a lot "nicer." I feel it kind of destroys what you were fighting for in the series. And Synthesis says that all life has evolved into the apex. Didn't Mordin also mention that evolving too fast is not a good thing? Natural evolution is what's kept life going. 

 

Not a fan of refusal but its an interesting ending. However it isn't handled well and honestly does seem like a fitting way to end the series. Also, it makes building the crucible and gathering all the fleets together ultimately pointless.

 

Control is an interesting ending, and one I'm sort of okay with. Its a bit weird to have Shepard be a Reaper god, and I saw someone mention harboring disdain for the Reapers that killed your family. I think Destroy is simply the most logical solution. Sure you lose the geth and EDI, but the series has reiterated a few times that losses are an inevitable part of war. Not to mention they can be rebuilt. Future generation can also easily teach their children about the mistakes they made with machines. I feel the catalyst was trying to pull a fast one on you saying that the peace won't last. You can in fact create peace between quarians and geth. 

[KaiserShep]

I don't think the Catalyst was trying to pull a fast one, but not even billions of years of observation preclude the possibility of it being wrong. It was, after all, wrong about organics' resourcefulness when the Crucible plans evaded it. 

[CronoDragoon]

The issue with Control, besides the obvious risks associated with keeping the Reapers around, is that you have to trust the word of the A.I. controlling the Reapers that everything will work out just peachy, if only you kill yourself first.
 
From an in universe perspective Shepard choosing any option where the Reapers' master tells him or her to commit suicide, just doesn't make sense. It is one of many reasons why the endings to the series were poorly written.

This comment also applies to Destroy. If Shepard decides the Catalyst is lying, then he's already lost and there's no point doing anything. If you're looking at possibility branches, the only one that ends with a favorable outcome is one where the Catalyst is telling the truth. So, you might as well believe he's telling you the truth.

In the words of Matt Damon in The Departed, "Look, you don't have to believe me. Just listen to what I'm telling you." It's not a matter of whether you can trust the Catalyst. You can't. He's the source of Indoctrination. But it's no longer about that.

[Han Shot First]

This comment also applies to Destroy. If Shepard decides the Catalyst is lying, then he's already lost and there's no point doing anything. If you're looking at possibility branches, the only one that ends with a favorable outcome is one where the Catalyst is telling the truth. So, you might as well believe he's telling you the truth.

In the words of Matt Damon in The Departed, "Look, you don't have to believe me. Just listen to what I'm telling you." It's not a matter of whether you can trust the Catalyst. You can't. He's the source of Indoctrination. But it's no longer about that.

 

Put yourself in Shepard's boots for a moment, and try not think about the scenario like a gamer who knows Bioware isn't going to have one of three choices end with a critical mission failure...

 

Your archenemy, a xenocidal entity responsible for countless mass extinctions and a current and ongoing attempt to destroy your own species, is promising peace and a utopic future, with the catch that it can only be achieved by killing yourself. What sane person would actually take that option? 

 

Additionally the Control and Synthesis options are only presented at the very end by enemies (Cerberus and the Reapers respectively), while Destroy had always been the objective of both your allies and the military organization you belong to.

 

All of the endings were poorly written, but Control and Synthesis were the most poorly thought out of the three. There is no reason for Shepard to choose either one from an in-universe perspective.

[themikefest]

Put yourself in Shepard's boots for a moment, and try not think about the scenario like a gamer who knows Bioware isn't going to have one of three choices end with a critical mission failure...

 

 What sane person would actually take that option? 

Not themikefest. As soon as the word destroy is mentioned, themikefest would say point me the way to destroying the reapers. Simple. themikefest would fire at the tube from a distance instead of getting up close and personal with the tube. Of course themikefest would be scratching his head as to why shooting at something that causes an explosion will activate the crucible. Either way, themikefest would destroy the reapers

[gothpunkboy89]

The issue with Control, besides the obvious risks associated with keeping the Reapers around, is that you have to trust the word of the A.I. controlling the Reapers that everything will work out just peachy, if only you kill yourself first.

 

From an in universe perspective Shepard choosing any option where the Reapers' master tells him or her to commit suicide, just doesn't make sense. It is one of many reasons why the endings to the series were poorly written. 

 

We trust that the crucible is an anti reaper weapon. When it could easily been a Reaper trap. A weapon designed to cause delays and reroute resources to create something that does nothing.  Purposefully drawing what ever specie(s) stupid enough into believing it would do anything to give them a chance to stage a grand battle to really wittle down if not out right remove their navy. Thus allowing easier harvesting with less resistance.

 

Accumulating in releasing a pulse across the galaxy that shuts down and burns out all non Reaper tech system. Thus every ship, every weapon, every communication device would be rendered useless and giving the Reapers free reign of the galaxy with no ability for any group or groups to resist them. Rendering their victory utterly secure just when the species in the harvest think they are at victory's door step.

 

While I understand why Bioware wouldn't go with that ending. I would honestly love it.

[Dani86]

We trust that the crucible is an anti reaper weapon. When it could easily been a Reaper trap. A weapon designed to cause delays and reroute resources to create something that does nothing.  Purposefully drawing what ever specie(s) stupid enough into believing it would do anything to give them a chance to stage a grand battle to really wittle down if not out right remove their navy. Thus allowing easier harvesting with less resistance.

 

Accumulating in releasing a pulse across the galaxy that shuts down and burns out all non Reaper tech system. Thus every ship, every weapon, every communication device would be rendered useless and giving the Reapers free reign of the galaxy with no ability for any group or groups to resist them. Rendering their victory utterly secure just when the species in the harvest think they are at victory's door step.

 

While I understand why Bioware wouldn't go with that ending. I would honestly love it.

 

I think we do have some independent third-party evidence that the Crucible will work to destroy the reapers (ie the Mars  archives and our scientists' examination thereof, the beacon on Thessia, etc). We have absolutely nothing except the word of the reaper's controller (and mass murderer to end all mass murderers) that control and synthesis will even work so those two choices are huge leaps of faith (in the mass murderer to end all mass murderers). 

[gothpunkboy89]

I think we do have some independent third-party evidence that the Crucible will work to destroy the reapers (ie the Mars  archives and our scientists' examination thereof, the beacon on Thessia, etc). We have absolutely nothing except the word of the reaper's controller (and mass murderer to end all mass murderers) that control and synthesis will even work so those two choices are huge leaps of faith (in the mass murderer to end all mass murderers). 

 

We have no independent evidence the crucible will do anything other then release a massive amount of energy. The Protheans found the plans for the device. Just as we did from them. They never got a chance to test it as a indoctrinated group sabotaged it.

 

There is absolutely no proof at all that the crucible will do anything to the Reapers. It could be a clever reaper trap. Or it could be a murder suicide weapon that would kill the reapers and all other existing sentient life in the galaxy. Think Halo Array set up as a last ditch effort.

 

Hackett even admits they barely understand it and sounds confused why it didn't fire instantly when it docked to the citadel. Simply put no one knows anything about it. They are only building it because it was found in a Prothean data site with the title "Reaper Killing Weapon" over top of it. Which the Reapers would more then have the ability find and add in said file to any left over Prothean data sites specifically to mislead the next cycle when it came time for harvest.

 

If you can accept the leap of faith that is the crucible is capable of destroying the reapers based on no knowledge but faith. You can accept the leap of faith that the AI is telling the truth.

[ChronosTachyon]

IMO, while Shepard has no reason to trust the Catalyst's intentions, s/he does have reason to trust its veracity: the Catalyst wasn't obligated to offer any choices at all.  It's already living its own version of the Control ending, it could have chosen to trigger the Destroy ending without consulting Shepard, there's a fair chance it could have used space magic to force the Synthesis ending on its own, and it probably could have made the Crucible self-destruct without affecting a single Reaper (the same effective outcome as Refusal).  The only reason the Catalyst would ask for Shepard's input is if it wanted their honest opinion, and if it wants Shepard's honest opinion then it's in its best interests to present them with the actual facts.

 

Personally, I usually go Synthesis, because my usual Shepard can't bring himself to commit genocide against the Geth.  (He's a big softie.)  And while Synthesis is a huge gamble, the Catalyst describes it as being analogous to how Shepard himself is partly synthetic due to Project Lazarus, so my Shepard concludes that Synthesis will result in individuals retaining their existing identities and autonomy.  Which, as it turns out, they do.  (He rejected the Control ending out of hand, because he believed no one had the right to wield that kind of power over people -- not the Catalyst, and not himself -- so the real debate was Synthesis or Destroy.)

[corkyspetals]

Catalyst wasn't obligated to offer any choices at all.

 

I hadn't thought about that before.  Interesting.  The catalyst has no motive for providing a choice.  There is no devious hidden agenda that would gain advantage by tricking Shepard into making a "wrong" choice.  If the catalyst could direct the reapers in the first place, it could certainly carry out any of the 3 choices with or without Shepard.  I think you finally convinced my to take the catalyst's choices at face value.

 

 

 

I do disagree that a control ending gives Shepard too much power, yet synthesis doesn't.  Isn't forcibly changing the genetics of every living thing in the galaxy the same magnitude of power (or use/abuse)?

[ChronosTachyon]

I do disagree that a control ending gives Shepard too much power, yet synthesis doesn't.  Isn't forcibly changing the genetics of every living thing in the galaxy the same magnitude of power (or use/abuse)?

 

Shepard's choice is something that, by all rights, s/he shouldn't have the power to decide.  But even Refusal to act is still a choice, so he has to choose something, and one doesn't get the impression that the Catalyst would halt the war for Shepard to take a democratic poll.

 

Control would leave them in charge of the Reapers, and the threat of force that they represent.  Whatever Shepard-AI wants, Shepard-AI gets.  My impression is that, in the Control ending, Shepard-AI uses that power to force civilization down a path of peace.  But it's "peace" at the barrel of a gun, a galaxy under autocratic rule.  And, to paraphrase a fanfic I like, Shepard would make a crap AI.

 

In contrast, Synthesis and Destroy both leave individuals free to determine their own paths.  An initial choice is forced upon the galaxy (biology rewrite in the former case, genocide of synthetics in the latter), but once that initial decision goes into effect, the survivors keep their autonomy over how to live the rest of their own lives.  Again, forcing Synthesis on the galaxy isn't fair, but Shepard has no fair options available.

[rossler]

There is absolutely no proof at all that the crucible will do anything to the Reapers. It could be a clever reaper trap. Or it could be a murder suicide weapon that would kill the reapers and all other existing sentient life in the galaxy. Think Halo Array set up as a last ditch effort.

 

One of the lines during the Illusive Man sequence has Shepard replying with "The Reapers built the relays. It's all apart of the same trap". When talking about the Crucible being a Reaper trap. It is one of the options on the right side of the dialogue wheel which isn't a persuasion option.

[The Real Pearl #2]

The geth don't deserve to die. And I am presented with a choice to save everyone. No more blood shed. 

Personally I believe the shepard "lives" ending is bull. Why would shepard want to live with half of his/her organs barely functional? 

Why would shepard want to be on life support forever? Inb4 people argue "alliance lazarus 2.0"

Why would the alliance spend so much tech and money for shep? I doubt miranda would want to revive her/him

It would be a waste of time and resources and the chances of success would be slim.

[ZipZap2000]

Because its red.

[laudable11]

Red is a heroic color. For heros only.

[spockjedi]

Because it's red, and red is for commies.

[rossler]

Red is also the renegade color. Destroying the Reapers is a renegade action against them. Control and synthesis are paragon actions, helping the Reapers.

[themikefest]

I would've laughed if the crucible ended up being the final piece to the Citadel to make it complete. Turns out it has nothing to do with stopping the reapers. After the crucible attaches to Citadel, the screen goes blank. A message pops up saying, tune into ME4 to see what happens with Commander Shepard and the reapers. hahahaha

[The Real Pearl #2]

I would've laughed if the crucible ended up being the final piece to the Citadel to make it complete. Turns out it has nothing to do with stopping the reapers. After the crucible attaches to Citadel, the screen goes blank. A message pops up saying, tune into ME4 to see what happens with Commander Shepard and the reapers. hahahaha

and with this playing in the background

*You wouldn't have like the ending anyways, so we just removed it all together, Hope you don't mind.

[rossler]

Shepard is the final piece in order to make the Crucible work. Without him to activate it, the Crucible gets destroyed by the Reapers.

[SomeUsername]

Once I had done it, going through the cut scenes, I thought the Destroy ending would actually permanently destroy all technology/spaceships/mass relays and would keep every system in the galaxy forever isolated from each other, meaning future generations of humans in Earth would probably not know about other aliens and vise versa. I also thought, seeing those non-Reaper ships disappearing at the Crucible explosion that all the fleets would be destroyed and mass murder all-around. The best ending made me feel pretty bad until I realized it wasn't the case. Though I would still pick this version of the Destroy ending compared to turning every species into electrical abominations with Reaper codes or choosing to control something that throughout the franchise we deemed too dangerous to "control".

 

I think it would have been very interesting if part of the Destroy ending actually did the things I wrote above and basically isolated everyone. It would, after all, achieve external peace in the Milky Way.

[Ganymede IX]

I say refusal. Let the Yahg sort the Reapers out. I spent the best years of my life trying to save the galaxy and only got to hit up two parties. One of which was a honey trap for a psychopathic Asari.

 

Nuts to the lot of them.

[Han Shot First]

Once I had done it, going through the cut scenes, I thought the Destroy ending would actually permanently destroy all technology/spaceships/mass relays and would keep every system in the galaxy forever isolated from each other, meaning future generations of humans in Earth would probably not know about other aliens and vise versa. I also thought, seeing those non-Reaper ships disappearing at the Crucible explosion that all the fleets would be destroyed and mass murder all-around. The best ending made me feel pretty bad until I realized it wasn't the case. Though I would still pick this version of the Destroy ending compared to turning every species into electrical abominations with Reaper codes or choosing to control something that throughout the franchise we deemed too dangerous to "control".

 

I think it would have been very interesting if part of the Destroy ending actually did the things I wrote above and basically isolated everyone. It would, after all, achieve external peace in the Milky Way.

 

It was implied before the Extended Cut that Destroy did all the things you mentioned. Actually all color-coded varieties of the endings resulted in the collapse of galactic civilization. Prior to the Extended Cut the series concluded in a rather bleak Pyrrhic Victory where the galaxy scorches its own civilization in order to save it.

 

It was implied by both the Normandy's stranding (originally permanent) and the Stargazer scene, where an old man born eons after the events of Mass Effect 3 expresses the dream that maybe his son will live to see a day where their people are once again space-faring. 

 

The main function of the Extended Cut in fact was in altering the most grim aspects of the endings, at least in the High EMS versions, so that galactic civilization no longer collapses. Bioware presented the EC as merely clarifying the writers' original intent...but that was obviously nothing more than spin doctoring and damage control.

 

The EC was addressing the primary cause of discontent with the endings, while the official statements about the EC merely 'clarifying' the ending were an obvious attempt at avoiding criticism from both fans and gaming journalists who liked the original endings...some of whom had been quite vocal in supporting Bioware's 'artistic integrity' in the face of equally loud (and often quite angry) calls for the original endings to get a rewrite.

 

The stargazer scene remained in the Extended Cut, but as part of the EC it seems more like a non-canon tribute to space exploration than an extension of the High EMS endings. In fact the narration and end slides contradict it. Given how disconnected it seems from the High EMS endings the decision to keep it around seems like an odd one, unless it stayed only because it featured Buzz Aldrin in a small cameo. 

[Reorte]

Going back to the colour thing, I know some of the posts on it were tongue-in-cheek but some people seem to stick to it. Do you never use Incendary Ammo on a Paragon character and Disrupter Ammo on a Renegade one?