2434 réponses à ce sujet

[Dani86]

Incorrect on all accounts there. The ability to own guns isn't what causes gun violence.   If you removed guns from the equation the people that kill other people would still do it. They would just find alternative methods. If not shooting someone then stabbing them. If not stabbing them beating them in the head with a blunt object.  I could kill someone with an 8 lbs frozen turkey in the freezer section of the nearest grocery store. Time and time again Kings, Emperors, Presidents and Prime Ministers  and Dictators have restricted or limited access to weapons. And yet time and time again people still killed, raped and stole.

 

Got any statistics ti back up claim? Because countries like Japan skit around the edges some times. Like they some times won't record a crime if they can't solve it.  Or simply due to the more draconian rules for punishment more people can be considered criminals then other countries would consider.  Case in point if you get drunk and end up mooning a school you can be arrested and charged and treated the same way as someone who actually molested a child. Or in Germany people that find themselves attracted to children can willingly come forth to receive the mental treatment they need without fear of repercussion.  In US if someone goes to a psychiatrist and admits they are sexually attracted to children. They are legally required to report them and the person even though they were trying to correct the issue now gets treated by the system as if they actually sexually molested a child. Put on a child sex offender website and over all life ruined even though they never acted on their impulse and actively want to get treatment because they realize their feelings are wrong.

 

So if you are equating US to more "freedom" based with more personal freedoms. There seems to be some contradictions in that.

 

Chaos and freedom are not mutual or interchangeable.  You can have control and chaos at the same time. And you can have freedom and order. The Country Georgia fired almost all of their police force. In 2005 the newly elected President fired 15,000 cops.  Even though they were severely limited on police man power. When freedom was the greatest order prevailed. Crime took a massive nose dive. When those police were in power despite Order being at it's highest the result was Chaos with rampant crime and corruption.

 

 

Your attempt to connect the two is well kind of childish to claim one is directly linked to the other.

 

 

Childish, am I? Because I disagree with you, of course. We might just have to agree to disagree. There are tons of studies that show a direct positive correlation between the availability of guns and deaths by guns and murder rates in general. Just like there are tons of studies that equate climate change with human activity but still people disagree! Of course you disagree. People disagree about everything. That's chaos for you. That's why democracy is chaos! But a little chaos is better than the alternative. That's why I believe that control/dictatorship is evil. Let's say that I am the Shepard who chose control and I truly believe that private citizens having access to assault rifles  causes the death of people including children. If you didn't agree, I would say 'okay, believe what you want but I'm going to send this reaper over there if I find that private citizens have assault rifles.' You would have no choice but to give up your guns regardless of whether you think it's right or not. I have no doubt that everything would be very orderly under the Shepard Dictatorship (and that's what is created when one chooses control, a dictatorship). There would be no wars, little crime and little freedom. Synthesis is even worse! In synthesis, the whole idea is to force people to *be* the same with the goal of them thinking the same. They have no say in the matter, no freedom to say no. Not only is it evil but it also wouldn't work. Unless you create a galaxy full of borg with a single hive mind, individuals will disagree. There will be disagreements, there will be arguments, eventually there will be wars. In sort, chaos would return despite one's efforts to create order by *forcing* people to become something else (like anyone should have the right to do that!). In short, once people became free to think for themselves again, the chaos would return. Destroy is the only option that gives people freedom over their own destinies. Might it lead to the very extreme chaos that the Catalyst warned against where those uncontrolled organics create synthetics and those uncontrolled synthetics kill all the organics? Probably but I think people deserve that freedom to make their own future. 

[gothpunkboy89]

No it's childish because of the simplistic view of it.

 

More guns = more gun deaths is pretty obvious. The more bathrooms that existed the more bathroom based accidents that increased. The more cars on the road the more car based deaths that happen. The more common something is the more likely it is to be a cause of death. This is just simple logic to use.

 

I still want these studies you are quoting. Because a lot of issue with some when they try to compare lets say US to UK is the inherent population and land mass difference. Seeing as US has about 318 million citizen while UK only has about 70 million. So comparing crime and murder rates can often be thrown off with direct comparison. In fact I've been in UK for last two weeks on vacation and even while barely paying attention to the news there has been at least 4 confirmed murders since I've been here. With one body being found in the river from someone who was missing a few weeks ago. I barely pay attention to the news at home and 2 weeks getting 4 confirmed murders seems to be on track for a typical 2 weeks in Florida.  So please do show me were you get these studies you are quoting.  I'm very interested to see. Because the NRA has repeatedly blocked and denied any funding from the government with the intent to study gun violence.

 

No democracy is control. It only becomes chaos when the people serving it are more interested in their personal gains then for he good of everyone. Which again isn't freedom.

 

Trying to liken the control option with a dictator is pretty weak of an argument. At no point does he claim to do anything you want to pretend he is. You are creating your own narrative to the control ending and inserting it in rather then what was actually said.  So again you don't have much ground to stand on when you are creating your own fiction then applying it because it fits what you want it to say rather then what it really said.

 

The same applies to the synthesis ending. There is no singular hive mind everyone is forced into now. They are still who they were before it and are still who they are after it. The repeating pattern of evolution being changed for new life to be created in new forms. You create your own narrative for what happens then over lay it onto what actually happens.

 

Or since we have gotten into a bit of a fire arm sub topic here.

 

What was actually said:

US President passed an executive order to increase the number of people hired by the FBI to do back ground checks on gun purchases to prevent anyone from slipping by during the 3 day waiting period.

 

What you heard:

THEY ARE TRYING TO TAKE MY GUNS!!!! OVER MY DEAD BODY!!

[Dani86]

No it's childish because of the simplistic view of it.

 

More guns = more gun deaths is pretty obvious. The more bathrooms that existed the more bathroom based accidents that increased. The more cars on the road the more car based deaths that happen. The more common something is the more likely it is to be a cause of death. This is just simple logic to use.

 

I still want these studies you are quoting. Because a lot of issue with some when they try to compare lets say US to UK is the inherent population and land mass difference. Seeing as US has about 318 million citizen while UK only has about 70 million. So comparing crime and murder rates can often be thrown off with direct comparison. In fact I've been in UK for last two weeks on vacation and even while barely paying attention to the news there has been at least 4 confirmed murders since I've been here. With one body being found in the river from someone who was missing a few weeks ago. I barely pay attention to the news at home and 2 weeks getting 4 confirmed murders seems to be on track for a typical 2 weeks in Florida.  So please do show me were you get these studies you are quoting.  I'm very interested to see. Because the NRA has repeatedly blocked and denied any funding from the government with the intent to study gun violence.

 

No democracy is control. It only becomes chaos when the people serving it are more interested in their personal gains then for he good of everyone. Which again isn't freedom.

 

Trying to liken the control option with a dictator is pretty weak of an argument. At no point does he claim to do anything you want to pretend he is. You are creating your own narrative to the control ending and inserting it in rather then what was actually said.  So again you don't have much ground to stand on when you are creating your own fiction then applying it because it fits what you want it to say rather then what it really said.

 

The same applies to the synthesis ending. There is no singular hive mind everyone is forced into now. They are still who they were before it and are still who they are after it. The repeating pattern of evolution being changed for new life to be created in new forms. You create your own narrative for what happens then over lay it onto what actually happens.

 

Or since we have gotten into a bit of a fire arm sub topic here.

 

What was actually said:

US President passed an executive order to increase the number of people hired by the FBI to do back ground checks on gun purchases to prevent anyone from slipping by during the 3 day waiting period.

 

What you heard:

THEY ARE TRYING TO TAKE MY GUNS!!!! OVER MY DEAD BODY!!

 

 

"No it's childish because of the simplistic view of it."

 

In your opinion. In your way of seeing things. 

 

"I still want these studies you are quoting."

 

I'm not quoting any studies. They are there. Do your own research. If you don't want to believe me, that's fine. I'm not about to do hours of work to satisfy some dude on the internet over an argument over a video game.

 

"No democracy is control. It only becomes chaos when the people serving it are more interested in their personal gains then for he good of everyone."

 

In my opinion, that is EXTREMELY simplistic. Democracy is different people with different interests trying to pursue their own agendas. There is no 'common good'. What is good for me might be very bad for you. Also, to paint someone as corrupt when they disagree with you on an issue is just wrong. How do you know that the guy that has the exact opposite opinion to yours on an issue doesn't truly believe that his view is correct and that if implemented, will lead to the greatest good?!    

 

"Trying to liken the control option with a dictator is pretty weak of an argument."

 

A single person taking absolute power and control for himself for an unlimited amount of time is not a dictatorship?! How could it be anything but a dictatorship?! It is the very definition of dictatorship.  

 

"The same applies to the synthesis ending. There is no singular hive mind everyone is forced into now."

 

I agree which is why I don't think it would work even if I didn't find it repugnant. The thing is, the whole rationale, from the mouth of the Catalyst, for why synthesis is the best is because everyone will then 'understand' each other so the the synthetics will no longer destroy the the organics. The whole goal is to remove the differences (by force, no one has a choice in the matter) and make everyone think the same way so there is nothing to fight over anymore. As I said previously, I think that is evil AND I don't think it will work UNLESS you create a single hive mind. Again, true individuals will always have different thoughts on things (as this thread only illustrates) and will always fight over such things.

 

"What was actually said:

US President passed an executive order to increase the number of people hired by the FBI to do back ground checks on gun purchases to prevent anyone from slipping by during the 3 day waiting period.

 

What you heard:

THEY ARE TRYING TO TAKE MY GUNS!!!! OVER MY DEAD BODY!!"

 

REALLY? That's what I heard? That's what I thought? Are you an asari? Did we meld? Are you in my brain, hearing my thoughts? How the heck would you know how I interpreted that or anything else in the news?! Don't you think it's more than a little insulting to not just put words in someone's mouth but thoughts in their head? 

 

 

 

  

[themikefest]

Isn't this thread about why a player wouldn't choose destroy?

[ImaginaryMatter]

Why are we talking about politics?

[Elhanan]

See? Synthesis eliminates the need for politics. Win!

[ImaginaryMatter]

See? Synthesis eliminates the need for politics. Win!

 

I only thought the Synthetics gain understanding.

 

Organics get more tech which seems like it would just escalate flame wars, because they would be attached to the internet all the time.

[Elhanan]

I only thought the Synthetics gain understanding.
 
Organics get more tech which seems like it would just escalate flame wars, because they would be attached to the internet all the time.

Understanding eliminates the need for social media; thus no flame wars.

[gothpunkboy89]

No it is simplistic very simplistic which is why I have issue because the world is never that simple black and white. There are more shades of grey in this world then there are actual individual colors.  So to say freedom = chaos and Order = Dictatorship stripping you of all freedom is extremely simplistic and silly to say the least.

 

You are the one claiming there are studies to support your claims. If you don't want to do work to support claims you make then don't make them. Particularly when they are based on studies that exist outside your own head.  If I claim orange juice and cure AIDS. You should rightly expect me to back up my claim with proof of it.  So unless you are going to show were your data came from then don't try to use it in your argument.

 

You ignored my entire explanation with democracy didn't you. Democracy in it's ideal form or even passable form is a people of various ideas and believes working together for the common good of everyone. The chaos forms when people become more and more interested in self serving then serving the community. While many times in US specifically it is painted as people more interested in themselves and their own goals and ignoring the common good. There are still occasional sparks and glowing embers of people who only want to try and help the common people.  It is an imperfect system that is very slow to change. But no system is perfect every one has flaws.

 

But Shepard doesn't have absolute power as part of the ending is him sharing the knowledge of the Reapers with the rest of the galaxy.  Using them to rebuild and protect them from outside threats. No doubt he would step in if say the some Krogans tried to go to war with the Turians over past grudges.  But even without him existing Humans, Asari and Slarian would have stepped in as well if the Turians requested their aid.  Shepard isn't telling them they have to live X or Y way. They have to worship X or Y diety. They now have to fly on the other side of the road because he saw it in a dream.  He isn't telling everyone to abandon technology and live completely dependent on him. None of the actions he makes fit the dictator title you add to him.  If that were so then the Asari were dictators before him. And every human government was a dictator before that. As well as every family unit is a dictatorship before that.

 

Your family is/was a dictatorship by your logic. Your parent(s) has absolute power. They decided what and how much you ate, what you watched, how much you watched. What toys you would have and how many. When you would go to bed, when you would wake up. When you would bath. What religion you were to follow.

 

That is why I find your reasoning simplistic because by your logic simply having a kid makes you a dictator because you have absolute power over them and make all the important choices for them until they reach a certain age.  Then as soon as they have a kid they become dictators themselves.  On your logic every single instance of humanity's existence has been under the control of a dictator in some way shape or form.

 

You don't need a hive mind  for synthesis to work.  The understanding each other is applied only to synthetic vs organic. Synthetic creations are designed to be perfect by nature. No one wants a phone that breaks every 3rd us.  Or a computer that randomly e-mails every one of your family members every porn site you have ever been on.  Computers operate on logic only with emotions being a completely foreign concept they can start to learn to deal with but never fully understand. EDI and Legion are great examples of that.  They learned how to deal with emotions displayed by the Normandy Crew. Just like you can learn about the terrible flooding and destruction of a small village in Indonesia. But you are never fully able to grasp what the flooding actually did to their lives and lively hood unless you experienced a similar thing or were there to see and feel the impact first hand.

 

Synthesis alters them so they gain and understanding of the flaws of organics as well as true understanding of the emotions that drive us. This breaks down the barriers created on the synthetic side.  Other wise we look like every negative stereotype of an over emotional woman x100.  The acceptation of the Reaper invasion is great example of that. Legion just needed to show his data that the Reaper invasion would come and the Geth agreed instantly. Shepard across 2 games tries to prove the Reapers will invade and it literally takes until the Reapers are tearing apart plants for the rest of the galaxy to acknowledge what him and his crew have been saying for years.  The only reason they didn't accept the Reapers were coming was emotional logic.

 

On the other side organics know they are flawed. To see a being that is stronger, faster, more durable, longer lived and much smarter then us creates fear. This fear causes problems to exist on the organic side against synthetics. The Quarians are best example of this. When the Geth started to show signed of self awareness and sentience they panicked because they knew the Geth were better then them in every way shape and form. Which history proved to be correct.

 

Synthesis alters organics giving them similar effect to implants put in biotics for greater control over their powers. Boosting their ability to think and react to much higher degrees then the evolutionary limitations imposed on them before.  You ever seen the anime Ghost in the Shell? Set in a future Tokyo were cybernetic implants to boost intelligence, speed and power are now so common and advanced it is commonly blurs the lines between human and machine. With the main character due to an accident as a child the only part of her original body left is her brain in a fully cybernetic body.  That is what synthesis does for organics.

 

It also alters the repeating patter of eveolution to have new life created. If you were to think of it as computer programming that is always 1 or 0. Synthesis alters the program so now it is 1 or 2 instead of 1 or 0. Thus altering how the computer would function on a fundamental layer.

[StarcloudSWG]

Synthesis plugs everyone into the Reaper network. And the "Catalyst" is still active, and the controlling intelligence of that network.

 

Instant huskification of everyone in the entire galaxy, at least to the level the Illusive Man is huskified.

 

The argument that "You are ready for synthesis, and thus you may choose it" that the "Catalyst" puts forward is senseless. In no way is galactic society ready to be huskified or be plugged into a neurully interfaced mass information network; socially, culturally, developmentally, there is no evidence that says any of the galactic civilizations are on the verge of developing such a thing themselves. Apart from the Geth, who live in that state by default. Synthesis, therefore, is the equivalent of uplifting the Krogan into galactic society before they were ready. The "Catalyst" even admits this, saying Synthesis "cannot be forced." But it wants you to force it.

 

Finally, Synthesis is only proposed by the "Catalyst" because the alternatives, from the "Catalyst's" point of view, is the destruction of the Reapers and the "Catalyst", or the destruction of the "Catalyst" alone.

 

Consider the way it ranks the desirability of the options. It tries to discourage you from destroying the Reapers, its pet project, by presenting Destroy as the least desirable option. Then it tries to discourage you from destroying it by replacement, and finally it tries to encourage Shepard to choose suicide and instant huskification as being the "best" option.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

I've been wondering why to some people it was logical to choose other options over the destroy ending - because as Shepard you are tasked to save the galaxy and "destroy" the reapers.
 
From your first encounter with Sovereign the galaxy knows that reapers can be destroyed with conventional methods (theoretically) - so when you are finally presented with a choice - why would you have a sudden change of heart and choose the other endings?

Do you realize you put the word "destroy" in quotation-marks?
 
Saying the task was to destroy the Reapers is kind of revisionist history because, as you said, nobody really knew what it was going to take to neutralize them (just that conventional weapons/forces were insufficient). So far as we knew, the key may just have been to rewrite their programming to turn them into mindless drones.
 
That leads me to my next point: how you stop the enemy is not meaningful, just whether or not you actually do it. Blue/Green do, and I can get how they do.
 
And then it just comes down to personal-preference.

[Dantriges]

You don't need a hive mind  for synthesis to work.  The understanding each other is applied only to synthetic vs organic. Synthetic creations are designed to be perfect by nature. No one wants a phone that breaks every 3rd us.  Or a computer that randomly e-mails every one of your family members every porn site you have ever been on.  Computers operate on logic only with emotions being a completely foreign concept they can start to learn to deal with but never fully understand. EDI and Legion are great examples of that.  They learned how to deal with emotions displayed by the Normandy Crew. Just like you can learn about the terrible flooding and destruction of a small village in Indonesia. But you are never fully able to grasp what the flooding actually did to their lives and lively hood unless you experienced a similar thing or were there to see and feel the impact first hand.
...
On the other side organics know they are flawed. To see a being that is stronger, faster, more durable, longer lived and much smarter then us creates fear. This fear causes problems to exist on the organic side against synthetics. The Quarians are best example of this. When the Geth started to show signed of self awareness and sentience they panicked because they knew the Geth were better then them in every way shape and form. Which history proved to be correct.

 
 
You are flying deep in headcanon territory and deep into wild speculation territory. Synthetic beings are designed to be perfect by nature? Not even sure what you mean. First there aren´t any synthetic beings, only machines currently. No idea how they will be built in the future. In the ME universe synthetic beings aren´t perfect, they are designed for speciifc tasks and some tradeoffs have to be made. If you build a bot with wheels, because they are a good addition which helps in its designated task, they won´t have legs.If you somehow add legs to your wheeled bot it´s not unlikely, it gets overly complicated and needs a lot more maintenance.

Like this whole stuff about they will be stronger, faster, durable, longer lived etc. Probably not. You don´t need the speed of a cheetah if your bot is a glorified forklift, it´s probably even counterproductive.

 

Durability has it´s price ,too and if it´s only in the pricetag. And it limits what you can use. Perhaps the bot needs some fragile components for its tasks. Quality has its price and planned obsolescence is a thing.

 

 

 

Synthesis alters organics giving them similar effect to implants put in biotics for greater control over their powers. Boosting their ability to think and react to much higher degrees then the evolutionary limitations imposed on them before.  You ever seen the anime Ghost in the Shell? Set in a future Tokyo were cybernetic implants to boost intelligence, speed and power are now so common and advanced it is commonly blurs the lines between human and machine. With the main character due to an accident as a child the only part of her original body left is her brain in a fully cybernetic body.  That is what synthesis does for organics.

 

Well...

the organics were still pretty fleshy.

[gothpunkboy89]

 
 
You are flying deep in headcanon territory and deep into wild speculation territory. Synthetic beings are designed to be perfect by nature? Not even sure what you mean. First there aren´t any synthetic beings, only machines currently. No idea how they will be built in the future. In the ME universe synthetic beings aren´t perfect, they are designed for speciifc tasks and some tradeoffs have to be made. If you build a bot with wheels, because they are a good addition which helps in its designated task, they won´t have legs.If you somehow add legs to your wheeled bot it´s not unlikely, it gets overly complicated and needs a lot more maintenance.

Like this whole stuff about they will be stronger, faster, durable, longer lived etc. Probably not. You don´t need the speed of a cheetah if your bot is a glorified forklift, it´s probably even counterproductive.

 

Durability has it´s price ,too and if it´s only in the pricetag. And it limits what you can use. Perhaps the bot needs some fragile components for its tasks. Quality has its price and planned obsolescence is a thing.

 

 

 

Well...

the organics were still pretty fleshy.

 

 

Oh what part is headcanon and wild speculation?

 

Geth and EDI both qualify as synthetic beings. They were created not though standard evolutionary growth the way Salarian or Asari were. But created by civilizations with advanced technology using completely inorganic components.

 

Both Geth and EDI are capable of self modifying themselves at will.  Case in point when EDI chose not to return to Cerberus. And chose to troll them will gbs of porn when they tried her shut down signal. Which she again at will decided to alter so it wouldn't work again.  I don't know why you keep trying these asinine counter arguments. The reapers were not created because of wars against LOKI mechs.But wars and conflicts with synthetic creations like Geth or EDI.  A LOKI mech can never ever question why it is there. It is a glorified  game console. How ever being like Geth are capable of questioning why they are there. Having similar metaphysical questions humans or salarians have done in the past. With your talks with EDI particularly one of the last ones on the Normandy about the indoctrination camps and how so few people would willingly turn others over to the Reapers even if it meant their own death. Shows her actually changing how she thinks. Regardless of Ren or Para choice she still makes the decision that death is better then helping the Reapers even the slightest to paraphrase each choice  topic. That is something a LOKI mech could never do.

 

Computers are created to be perfect. Why do so many manufactures use machines over man power now a days? Because they are able to achieve a speed and precision that human hands are incapable of.  It is why so many scientists use computers to help discover the very matter that creates the universe. Because they can't just fire 2 protons at each other and see the results perfectly with their own hands and eyes. 

 

Who said speed of a cheetah? Fastest human only goes about 27 mph. Why would you need to go 60mph? A solid 30mph would be enough.  The fact the geth can dead drop from low orbit before unfolding. Or lay perfectly still for something to come into their range before popping up are very large advantages. As to prevent a human from dieing during a drop they would need to parachute down leaving them open to gunfire and AA fire.

 

Being afraid of something bigger, stronger and smarter then you is basic evolution. It is why without human interference Chihuahuas and shitzus would go extinct. Because they would run up to the much larger Rottweilers growling and snapping at them and the Rottweiler would kill them. Why the people that try to walk up to a bear and hug it end up getting mauled. Without that basic survival instinct to avoid creatures capable of killing you. Your species tend not to survive very well. That is why there are so many old wife tales about wolfs that paint them as evil beings.  Hell even the Krogan were respectful of the Thresher  Maws. With killing one being a massive deal and simply surviving it enough to show you are a man in their culture. Or at least with Wrex's Clan.

 

Yes they were fleshy still after synthesis. I have another example using Ghost in the Shell to give over all idea of the impact synthesis had on organics. As Ghost in the Shell best highlights the lines that were blurred between organic and synthetic thus breaking down the walls that caused the fights and thus the need for the Reapers in the first place.

[Draining Dragon]

I chose Destroy, because red explosions are best explosions.

[Dantriges]

Oh what part is headcanon and wild speculation?

 

Ok. Let´s just say that you are jumping from today´s computers to synthetics, a classification which is rather broad. And you include other franchises, so it could range from nanomachines to Reaper sovereign class ships. Makes it rather hard to follow. And perfection is a rather broad term.

[dorktainian]

Wasn't the Control ending originally called 'become a reaper'?

 

Yep like thats going to end well......

 

Synthesis allows everyone to become friends with the killing machines friendly machine buddies.  Good idea.  

 

as someone said above, red explosions are the best explosions.

[gothpunkboy89]

Ok. Let´s just say that you are jumping from today´s computers to synthetics, a classification which is rather broad. And you include other franchises, so it could range from nanomachines to Reaper sovereign class ships. Makes it rather hard to follow. And perfection is a rather broad term.

 

In the reference of the game synthetics are applied to Reapers, Geth, and EDI.

 

 

Synthetics which include EDI and Geth are as close to what we consider perfection as we can get. They do not tire, they do not get injured easily, they can think and react faster then we can. They don't suffer from disease and short of an accident they are for all intents and purposes immortal and in a world of technology they are near omnipotent.  Besides the divine power usually associated with God(s) and Goddess(es) they for-fill most qualities that people would associate with a "perfect" being. 

[Dantriges]

If we compare them to humans, their shells are better. EDI is a frigate which still needs a human pilot tp improve her pperformance, the Geth nearly get wiped out and the Reapers have the Catalyst as their collective intelligence, which suffers from some very basic logic errors and needs a billion years to achieve its ultimate goal, when a bunch of clever monkeys brought it a really big power source. Two out of three need organics to fulfill their purpose/goals.

 

Most people in areas where montheism is dominant associate with God,* that he made a universe, does some stuff, when you die and is omnipotent, -present and -scient.

 

*the capital G one

[Iakus]

In the reference of the game synthetics are applied to Reapers, Geth, and EDI.

 

 

Synthetics which include EDI and Geth are as close to what we consider perfection as we can get. They do not tire, they do not get injured easily, they can think and react faster then we can. They don't suffer from disease and short of an accident they are for all intents and purposes immortal and in a world of technology they are near omnipotent.  Besides the divine power usually associated with God(s) and Goddess(es) they for-fill most qualities that people would associate with a "perfect" being. 

Anyone who has ever owned a computer can honestly say machines are not "immortal" 

[Willowhugger]

I've been wondering why to some people it was logical to choose other options over the destroy ending - because as Shepard you are tasked to save the galaxy and "destroy" the reapers.

 

From your first encounter with Sovereign the galaxy knows that reapers can be destroyed with conventional methods (theoretically) - so when you are finally presented with a choice - why would you have a sudden change of heart and choose the other endings?

 

Destroying the Reapers is not the goal.

 

Saving the galaxy is.

 

Any ending which requires killing both a member of my crew and the Geth is unacceptable.

[Navasha]

It was that unexplainable deviation in Shepards thought process that gave rise to the whole 'Indoctrination theory'.   There really is no logical reason why you would suddenly veer from everything you were trying to achieve throughout the whole game series at the very threshhold of victory.    

 

For me, picking destroy is the only option that is victorious.

 

Control and Synthesis are quite literally the Reapers tricking Shepard into fulfilling their objective.   

"Hey look!   You organics built a powerful device capable of enslaving the entire galaxy at once!   Good on you.   Here is how I want you to use it to benefit our goal"

[gothpunkboy89]

Anyone who has ever owned a computer can honestly say machines are not "immortal" 

They become out dated due people's inability/unwillingness to update them with improved performance as necessary or improper care and handling. Not including accidents.  Hell my fiancee's dad has a couple of "hand held" vector graphic games he had as a kid in the 60's that still work.

 

If not built for planned obsolescence *cough* apple *cough* they can last a fairly long time with proper care and maintenance. Again not including any accidents that could happen. Like a 2 year old spilling a cup of grape juice all over your computer.

 

EDI and the Geth both lack physical bodies like we would. They are almost entirely software if not entirely software in the case of the Geth. Their bodies, their process can be sped up though improving their own programming and improving the physical hardware they need to interact with. They can also easily shed any excess unneeded information to free up space as well.

[fhs33721]

Anyone who has ever owned a computer can honestly say machines are not "immortal" 

You mean the same computers, which are specifically built by the people who sell them to stop functioning after a certain amount of time so you have to buy a new one?

[gothpunkboy89]

If we compare them to humans, their shells are better. EDI is a frigate which still needs a human pilot tp improve her pperformance, the Geth nearly get wiped out and the Reapers have the Catalyst as their collective intelligence, which suffers from some very basic logic errors and needs a billion years to achieve its ultimate goal, when a bunch of clever monkeys brought it a really big power source. Two out of three need organics to fulfill their purpose/goals.

 

Most people in areas where montheism is dominant associate with God,* that he made a universe, does some stuff, when you die and is omnipotent, -present and -scient.

 

*the capital G one

 

Even if you ignore EDI in control of the Normandy any body build to be able to house her software would be made out of metal and hydraulics. Both offer superior wear and tear protection as well as power compared to muscles or bones. For instance an aluminum base ball bat is hallow. How ever with enough force applied it can break the Femer bone. Which is the strongest bone in our body. It might dent the hallow aluminum bat but you could still play base ball with it. You wouldn't be walking with the leg. Her relationship with Joker is a mutual one. He helped her so she isn't going to just side line him like an ass hole.  If he wasn't such a good pilot I would be she would bench him pretty quickly.

 

The Geth wiped out because of a surprise attack targeting a minor weakness and exploiting it. I don't care if it is Mike Tyson in his prime he comes around a blind corner and I blind him with a light. Then kick him in the balls as hard as I can with a steel tipped boot. Even I could take him on and win in his now crippled form.  You really don't seem to understand the value and effectiveness of surprise attacks do you? The entire reason drones are so popular is because of that reason. A small nearly invisible to the eye and radar robot capable of delivering aerial strikes before the target knows about it. So they can't react and flee/fight back.

 

Catalyst really isn't their central intelligence. More like the leader of them as well as a sort of central storage point of information. Also explained time and time again how the Reapers followed rather good logic. You display the key part of this game that so many people over look and why I love the series so much. The pure unrelenting hypocrisy of advanced intelligent life.

 

And the synthesis ending is no more stupid then any other ending. Particularly the destroy ending. Even just the basic idea of firing a beam that can some how travel the galaxy. Render advanced tech inoperable and yet leaves current tech in a state that could be easily repaired so literally every person in a ship in space in the galaxy don't slowly die of asphyxiation as the tech and machinery that would control that would be rendered inoperable.

[Dantriges]

Even if you ignore EDI in control of the Normandy any body build to be able to house her software would be made out of metal and hydraulics. Both offer superior wear and tear protection as well as power compared to muscles or bones. For instance an aluminum base ball bat is hallow. How ever with enough force applied it can break the Femer bone. Which is the strongest bone in our body. It might dent the hallow aluminum bat but you could still play base ball with it. You wouldn't be walking with the leg. Her relationship with Joker is a mutual one. He helped her so she isn't going to just side line him like an ass hole.  If he wasn't such a good pilot I would be she would bench him pretty quickly.

What kind of example is a baseball bat? Uh well, parchment outlasts hard drives in information storage by centuries.
Ok let´s get to the more serious examples. Spaceships, submarines, aircrafts, tanks and a whole bunch of other hardware needs constant maintenance. Ok, they are operating in extreme locations like under the sea but IIRC synthetics are superior because they don´t care about hazardous areas. A robot body is not a baseball, bat but a complicated design. It´s not just a planned thing that stuff breaksdown, high performance mechanics are not as impervious to harm as a stainless steel bar.

 

Funny thing is, the Krogans have the same virtues more or less. Their brain power isn´t exactly superior but if we go for sheer physical prowess and durability, they beat most synthetics. 

EDI said that Joker adds a real benefit. In theory she could be lying, but well the statement still stands. I put the "gets her body stolen by the clone, despite being physically present during the Citadel mission and having contact with her core under bad writing.
 

The Geth wiped out because of a surprise attack targeting a minor weakness and exploiting it. I don't care if it is Mike Tyson in his prime he comes around a blind corner and I blind him with a light. Then kick him in the balls as hard as I can with a steel tipped boot. Even I could take him on and win in his now crippled form.  You really don't seem to understand the value and effectiveness of surprise attacks do you? The entire reason drones are so popular is because of that reason. A small nearly invisible to the eye and radar robot capable of delivering aerial strikes before the target knows about it. So they can't react and flee/fight back.

 

I am DMing P&P RPGS for 25 years, now, I know the value of a surprise attack, even when the numbers are applicable to specific systems only. Had my share of brawls as well, so thanks for asking. So a weakness? I thought they were perfect? I am not the one throwing terms like "perfect" and "omnipotent like the gods in a technical environment" around. The quarian fleet is a technical environment and they have extranet access. So hacking shouldn´t be a problem for our flashlight godlings. Shep got some interesting public news feeds, too, which were an indicator for a surprise attack. Seems our super thinker seriously underestimated the value of gathering intell.
 

 

Catalyst really isn't their central intelligence. More like the leader of them as well as a sort of central storage point of information. Also explained time and time again how the Reapers followed rather good logic. You display the key part of this game that so many people over look and why I love the series so much. The pure unrelenting hypocrisy of advanced intelligent life.
 
And the synthesis ending is no more stupid then any other ending. Particularly the destroy ending. Even just the basic idea of firing a beam that can some how travel the galaxy. Render advanced tech inoperable and yet leaves current tech in a state that could be easily repaired so literally every person in a ship in space in the galaxy don't slowly die of asphyxiation as the tech and machinery that would control that would be rendered inoperable.

The Catalyst said, it is the collective intelligenc of all Reapers. It had no reason to lie at this point about that.

 

 

The pure unrelenting hypocrisy of advanced intelligent life.

 

It´s not like the catalyst isn´t showing the same hipocrisy. I think you forgot "organic."

You are still aware that the Reapers aren´t real, are you? Writers with the same mushy thing between their ears came up with the idea, their logic isn´t so advanced, that it´s beyond comprehension. 

Anyways I wasn´t going for the ending stuff or the logic behind the Reaper harvest cycle. The catalyst was still looking for a superior solution to his problem, than the one it came up with. The whole galaxy was manipulated to search a superior solution. Never found one, until we brought him one. And the current cycle was hardly the first. The Catalyst was aware of the concept for several cycles, there were indoctrinated agents during the last cycle and it never checked what the organics came up with. It´s not like the current one built the synthesis plot into the Crucible.

 

Sorry, but that didn´t impress me enough to attach the labels godlike or perfect.