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[Dantriges]

The whole affair with EDi is rather odd. The jamming apparently doesn´t keep her from reporting stuff during the flight to the Citadel.

 

We are talking about moving server banks in space stations not humans.

 

Eat the heart of your enemies and gain tehir strength. Yeah that´s souns like it. BW clearly believes in magic. Perhaps they should stay away from sci-fi.

 

So the Catalyst deduced that the organics were just moving  a power source and were dumb enough to protect a useless device by simply looking at it? And thought "oh that´s ok, let´s dock it because I deduced in my infinite wisdom that it´s harmless?"

 

 

It isn't the pinnacle of this cycle's technological development it is the culmination of every previous cycle who worked on it plus our building up to this point.

Makes it even more valuable.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Nah I did - point still stands. It does lead to it, as that is how it starts. You have the Shepalyst in the background with an intact Reaper fleet just doing... what? Cruising around for the hell of it?

Imagine how each Council meeting must go knowing that there is some omnipotent AI lurking in the background just waiting for you to say that Miranda was the worst LI.

 

No, it starts with controlling the Reapers -- full stop. What it leads to thereafter lies purely in the realm of speculation(zomg!). You can hypothesize what happens next but you cannot know it; there is no way to experiment and test your hypothesis (even EC isn't reliable, it's more foreshadowing than fact).

 

I could assert a number of things other than enslaving the galaxy for AI!Shep to do with the Reapers. He could use them like the UN's "army" (non-violent) that intervenes in a given conflict to stabilize the situation. He could guard against extra-galactic threats. Hell, he could lead the way for travel beyond the Milky Way. Bottom line, though, is other possibilities exist, so there is by definition no 100% certain outcome anyone can rationally claim past "Shepard controls the Reapers."

[Hair Serious Business]

For one simple reason that I will borrow from 'creep kid'.

 

Even if you destroy repears you will only put end just to this problem. But humans are buttholes and aliens share this trait with us(afterall they are made to be like us), which means someone someday of our dear children of ours will make new even worse problem then repears in here. Which means congrats you died in vain, got nothing out of it. Yeay you!

 

On another hand syntheses ending you die too but you can control repears, think about it what once was threat now can become weapon to use, as ol' saying says "Using enemy's weapon against enemy is best kind of weapon" in here you pretty much have option to destroy repears completely and as I said new threat will arise because humans are dangerous to themselves alone without any repears in sky.....on another hand you can control repears and use them now and in future, you have unlimited potential with being "Overlord" of synths, you have power to help even after your death in here.

 

So in another words I will just say this will you die as "moment" hero that just saved galaxy from one threat even though galaxy shall make new enemy in future themselves...or will you die and sacrifice your life so you can control biggest threat to humanity in order to use that threat for greater good. Easy choice isn't it.

[gothpunkboy89]

The whole affair with EDi is rather odd. The jamming apparently doesn´t keep her from reporting stuff during the flight to the Citadel.

 

We are talking about moving server banks in space stations not humans.

 

Eat the heart of your enemies and gain tehir strength. Yeah that´s souns like it. BW clearly believes in magic. Perhaps they should stay away from sci-fi.

 

So the Catalyst deduced that the organics were just moving  a power source and were dumb enough to protect a useless device by simply looking at it? And thought "oh that´s ok, let´s dock it because I deduced in my infinite wisdom that it´s harmless?"

 

Makes it even more valuable.

 

Rendering her internal speakers disabled and disconnecting her from her ability to effect the ship's navigation doesn't mean she is auto disconnected from other things.  Even if disconnected from the propulsion the energy increase from another thing would be fairly obvious indication of the engines powering up. In ability to use radio to warn Traynor or dock security doesn't mean her laser beam signal she uses for her body doesn't work now.

 

Server banks in space are the same as moving humans. A space station by design is not created for movement. Particularly not FTL flight. They would have to build entirely new servers to store geth on then move that. And it was never made clear if the dyson sphere was created with movement in mind or if it has reached that stage of development yet were they started adding thrusts to it.  The Heretic space station from ME2 alone contained hundreds of thousands of geth programs and trillions and trillions of terabytes of data on it. Moving it isn't simply putting in a USB stick and downloading it all in 5 minutes.

 

I don't get the eat the heart bit. Reverse engineering technology is a fairly common set up. It is how people will make cheap knock offs of new tech by reverse engineering it. Or how people make emulators. By reverse engineering the tech and altering it so it can run on other media. Like an emulator that simulates an android smart phone so you can play games created for the android phone on a pc which as a different operating system.  So take a little bit of adanced Reaper tech. Combine it with current blue box AI tech and boom you get EDI.

 

Why would you waste time blowing up something that wasn't a threat? By the time it managed to dock Shepard was already in the citadel. At that point it was obviously having different ideas about the potential for the crucible.  Things had changed his solution was showing it's weak points. Why waste something that had potential even if it wasn't a direct threat to him or the Reapers on it's own?

[Dantriges]

The clone disabled her control of the Normandy and shut down sensory input. This would include her control over communications.

Ehm laser beam communication? From the Normandy in the docking bay to EDI-Bot in the underground archives or EDI-Bot in a taxi flying through a densely developed urban area? And they installed a separate communications suite independant of the rest of the Normandy and a comm laser on the hull because?

 

Server banks are cities. I am pretty sure moving a 100k people is a lot more difficult.

 

Hm, forgot TIM. So it´s a good question what they actually knew about the Crucible. It seems they deemed it a threat or moving the Citadel was rather unnecessary.

[HowElse?]

Because a LOT of Players were easily swayed by the lying little sh** at the end of the Game.
I have a better question, why believe Everything the 'Starchild' Says?
Believing that options other than Destroy are "More viable" would only mean that the player themselves became Indoctrinated in the End.

 

[Elhanan]

Another reason to choose Synthesis is to avoid possible future conflicts with the species of Leviathan. Destroy options seems to only strengthen their dominance as a race, and Control appears to increase friction and hostility towards them, IMO.

[ChronosTachyon]

FWIW, I'm now writing a fanfic that explores how the galaxy reacts to the Synthesis ending.  MShep/Kaidan, but nothing tawdry.

[StarcloudSWG]

"If it's all civilized, you're not doing it right."

[themikefest]

Another reason to choose Synthesis is to avoid possible future conflicts with the species of Leviathan. Destroy options seems to only strengthen their dominance as a race, and Control appears to increase friction and hostility towards them, IMO.

If there is only the 3 Leviathan that is seen, I'm wouldn't be too concerned. It seems their power revolves around those orbs at least when it comes to long distances. Destroy them, and they can't do much. Get up-close- and-personal with them like Shepard, then yeah they can do their mind control thing without the orbs.  If there are more of the species in the galaxy hiding, I might be concerned

[aoibhealfae]

I still think its safer to destroy all reapers. Reapers don't lose their indoctrination abilities in Synthesis and Control. In long term, this could have a very catastrophic effect. Leviathans are limited by their orbs and you could always do orbital bombardment on Despoina 

[Elhanan]

If there is only the 3 Leviathan that is seen, I'm wouldn't be too concerned. It seems their power revolves around those orbs at least when it comes to long distances. Destroy them, and they can't do much. Get up-close- and-personal with them like Shepard, then yeah they can do their mind control thing without the orbs.  If there are more of the species in the galaxy hiding, I might be concerned

I do not recall that there were only confirmed to be three. What seems to be discussed is that the species could hide in the dark corners of space, and that Shepard found the ones related to the death of Dr Bryson. However, even just three seemed to be enough to stave off being destroyed for every cycle since the Reapers were created. Perhaps they can breed like Krogan?

And while Reapers do not lose their indoctrination abilities, the unified bond between all life apparently does not require that use in the Galaxy any longer, as per the epilogue.

[StarcloudSWG]

Of course it doesn't. In Synthesis, everything's *already* plugged into Reaper.net, why would they need to use indoctrination to plug people into Reaper.net?

[Iakus]

Of course it doesn't. In Synthesis, everything's *already* plugged into Reaper.net, why would they need to use indoctrination to plug people into Reaper.net?

Synthesis=installing Origin on everything

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 lol, yeah. I'm actually a Green guy but I'm not seeing that Leviathan argument for Synthesis at all.

[Kerg]

Synthesis is entirely too far-fetched.  Much more far-fetched than even most magic in fantasy novels and games.  I'll buy the possibility of someone casting a fireball spell much more easily than I can buy what the Catalyst claims synthesis will accomplish, on a galaxy-wide scale.  It's so monumentally far-fetched and ridiculous that it cannot be accepted as possible, period.  So the only logical conclusion is that the Catalyst is lying about this option, trying to trick you in some way.  And Shepard is nobody's dupe.

 

Control puts too much power in the hands of one individual, and if there is anything that history has taught us, it's that absolute power corrupts absolutely, even a paragon Shepard with the best intentions.

 

Destroy brings the galaxy back to its natural state, chaos.  Let things evolve as they are going to evolve.  That's the way it was before the Reapers, and that's the way it should be.  Survival of the fittest.  If synthetics end up wiping out organic life, so be it.  Organic life had their chance and was selected against.  And who's to say that organic life is preferable anyway.  Sentient beings are sentient beings.  Let it be decided naturally, instead of dictated by the Reapers.  Besides, the universe is kind of a big place.  Synthetics won't be able to wipe out all organic life everywhere and keep it from re-emerging.  In the short term, sacrificing the Geth and EDI is no different than sacrificing the Batarians in Arrival...  it's for the greater good.  And the possibility that Shepard might actually survive this choice and live out his days banging his LI is just (turned out to be) icing on the cake.

[Elhanan]

Synthesis is entirely too far-fetched.  Much more far-fetched than even most magic in fantasy novels and games.  I'll buy the possibility of someone casting a fireball spell much more easily than I can buy what the Catalyst claims synthesis will accomplish, on a galaxy-wide scale.  It's so monumentally far-fetched and ridiculous that it cannot be accepted as possible, period.  So the only logical conclusion is that the Catalyst is lying about this option, trying to trick you in some way.  And Shepard is nobody's dupe.
 
Control puts too much power in the hands of one individual, and if there is anything that history has taught us, it's that absolute power corrupts absolutely, even a paragon Shepard with the best intentions.
 
Destroy brings the galaxy back to its natural state, chaos.  Let things evolve as they are going to evolve.  That's the way it was before the Reapers, and that's the way it should be.  Survival of the fittest.  If synthetics end up wiping out organic life, so be it.  Organic life had their chance and was selected against.  And who's to say that organic life is preferable anyway.  Sentient beings are sentient beings.  Let it be decided naturally, instead of dictated by the Reapers.  Besides, the universe is kind of a big place.  Synthetics won't be able to wipe out all organic life everywhere and keep it from re-emerging.  In the short term, sacrificing the Geth and EDI is no different than sacrificing the Batarians in Arrival...  it's for the greater good.  And the possibility that Shepard might actually survive this choice and live out his days banging his LI is just icing on the cake.

So meta-game knowledge is not available for Synthesis, but is acceptable for Destroy? Got it....

Destroy seems to leave the possible problems of Krogan overpopulation, Leviathan domination, and other non-synthetic troubles. Synthesis appears to solve them all. Go Green!

[themikefest]

Destroy seems to leave the possible problems of Krogan overpopulation, Leviathan domination, and other non-synthetic troubles.

Those are possible, not guaranteed.
 

Synthesis appears to solve them all. Go Green!

Appears doesn't mean they're solved and if they are, it might not be the best solution. Go RED !

[Kerg]

So meta-game knowledge is not available for Synthesis, but is acceptable for Destroy? Got it....

Destroy seems to leave the possible problems of Krogan overpopulation, Leviathan domination, and other non-synthetic troubles. Synthesis appears to solve them all. Go Green!

Well, it turned out to be icing on the cake, meaning the Red cake is the best cake without even factoring that in.

[aoibhealfae]

Both Mordin and Padok Wiks explain it in the game, the cure is not a cure. The Krogan still have the genophage but the treatment is merely another mutagen that changes genes in organs that support the immune system to express pregnancy hormones to enable Krogan women to carry full-term birth and as a trade off, it meant life-long Krogan health problem. Remember that they're already living in an overpopulated and radioactive wasteland. Krogan are the healthiest bunch because they could withstand their environment and with compromised immune system like the Quarians, they're basically dying quicker either way. The Salarians are so antsy about Krogan overpopulation was because the Krogan have the same one-thousand lifespan as the Asari. They get panties in a bunch about having to deal with uncivilized war-mongering race that they decide a sterility plague as the solution. Krogan people and their culture could thrive become an advance civilization and besides, they've suffered through a thousand years of pain and generations of children born dead, Wrex and Eve themselves understood that their people are dying. Why would they jeopardize everything again? 

 

Leviathan's indoctrination are limited by their orbs and their control is flawed and was gone the moment you destroy them. Reapers' indoctrination still works long distance through the dark space and manage to screw people's brain up. 

 

The thing about Destroy, Geth and EDI sacrificed themselves at the end of Reaper War. They show how organics and synthetics could cooperate to a common goal. Shepard wouldn't even be able to push to the conduit without EDI's calculation. And Catalyst was talking gibberish about conflict and chaos persisting when they themselves is the reason why they exist. Catalyst is a synthetic intelligent that kill its creators and create them into a mutant-machine and constantly trying to achieve perfection for countless of cycles. They blame organics and synthetics are always at war when they themselves took control and create wars. They are the actual reason why organics and synthetics are prejudiced one another. 

 

And if you listen to EDI's monologue, Synthesis is not even their endgame. They're not even satisfied by green space magic. They want true ultimate self-preservation with fourth wall breaking immortality that transcend through time and space where the rules of the galaxy doesn't apply anymore that 1 + 1 equals to 3. Yeah... if I want more that, I'll rewatch 11th Doctor again. Then again, I don't think it could compete with the amount of plotholes Moffat dug in every chapters.

 

Either way with Destroy, I feel so much happier shooting the red tube and watch Starbrat fizzle out of existence. You don't wanna die fake kid? You really want to talk me into not killing you? You're that scared that the universe will go mad without you being this little special omnipotent AI guardian to protect us from ourselves? Awww... too bad... *unlock safety*

[teh DRUMPf!!]

So the only logical conclusion is that the Catalyst is lying about this option, trying to trick you in some way.

I do not see said logic, considering this option is closest to its own benefit both objectively from what we know and from its own report. It would stand to reason that if it was trying to trick you, it would do so away from the outcomes it does not desire.
 

Control puts too much power in the hands of one individual, and if there is anything that history has taught us, it's that absolute power corrupts absolutely, even a paragon Shepard with the best intentions.

You mean like an agent for one of the most powerful government entities in the galaxy, granted authority that supersedes the law in Council space? 
 

Destroy brings the galaxy back to its natural state, chaos.  Let things evolve as they are going to evolve.  That's the way it was before the Reapers, and that's the way it should be.  Survival of the fittest.

 
Uhh, that really is not desirable at all. Virtually all the comforts of modern life today -- from modern-medicine to HVAC -- is a subversion of the state-of-nature and survival-of-the-fittest (the latter, by the way, is not even the most important component to evolution), and the human condition generally improves by further subverting nature's hold/limitations on intelligent life.
 

If synthetics end up wiping out organic life, so be it.  Organic life had their chance and was selected against.  And who's to say that organic life is preferable anyway.  Sentient beings are sentient beings.  Let it be decided naturally, instead of dictated by the Reapers.

 
Well, letting the natural course decide things is what led us there in the first place (to the Reapers rising to the position of dictating).

If letting nature just take its course is a good idea, even if it leads to AI coming out on top, why bother with fighting the Reapers?

[Kerg]

I do not see said logic, considering this option is closest to its own benefit both objectively from what we know and from its own report. It would stand to reason that if it was trying to trick you, it would do so away from the outcomes it does not desire.
 

You mean like an agent for one of the most powerful government entities in the galaxy, granted authority that supersedes the law in Council space? 
 

 
Uhh, that really is not desirable at all. Virtually all the comforts of modern life today -- from modern-medicine to HVAC -- is a subversion of the state-of-nature and survival-of-the-fittest (the latter, by the way, is not even the most important component to evolution), and the human condition generally improves by further subverting nature's hold/limitations on intelligent life.
 

 
Well, letting the natural course decide things is what led us there in the first place (to the Reapers rising to the position of dictating).

If letting nature just take its course is a good idea, even if it leads to AI coming out on top, why bother with fighting the Reapers?

 

What I mean by letting things play out naturally is that organics and AI should be given the chance to work things out on their own.  Wiping everyone out before they even have a chance to do so, based upon the giant assumption that AI will end up wiping out all organic life, is dumb.  It's not what the original creators of the Reapers had in mind.  Or anyone had in mind.  It was a mistake.  A bug.  An unintended result of poor programming (of the Reapers).  Destroy ending corrects that mistake.

[gothpunkboy89]

What I mean by letting things play out naturally is that organics and AI should be given the chance to work things out on their own.  Wiping everyone out before they even have a chance to do so, based upon the giant assumption that AI will end up wiping out all organic life, is dumb.  It's not what the original creators of the Reapers had in mind.  Or anyone had in mind.  It was a mistake.  A bug.  An unintended result of poor programming (of the Reapers).  Destroy ending corrects that mistake.

 

Reapers were created because that AI tried to broker peace between Organic races and the synthetic races they produced. It only went with the Reaper option after multiple attempts failed. A few successful but most of them not.  And not every war would simply be because the AI's go all Skynet. Quarians are great example of how Organics played their part as well.

[Reorte]

Reapers were created because that AI tried to broker peace between Organic races and the synthetic races they produced. It only went with the Reaper option after multiple attempts failed. A few successful but most of them not.  And not every war would simply be because the AI's go all Skynet. Quarians are great example of how Organics played their part as well.

But where does that point to total annhialation of all organic life?

If you find the Catalyst's argument remotely persuasive you'd better get off your computer and out to campaign against AI developments in the real world, right now.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

What I mean by letting things play out naturally is that organics and AI should be given the chance to work things out on their own.

 

I know what you mean, actually, hence my advice to be careful what you wish for.
 

Nature = Fail.

 

Wiping everyone out before they even have a chance to do so, based upon the giant assumption that AI will end up wiping out all organic life, is dumb.  It's not what the original creators of the Reapers had in mind.  Or anyone had in mind.  It was a mistake.  A bug.  An unintended result of poor programming (of the Reapers).  Destroy ending corrects that mistake.

 

Their creators' intent is a moot point; mistakes are going to be made post-Destroy just like they were pre-Reapers.

 

You could argue people will not repeat the same mistakes again later, but when has that ever been true of people??