The only confusing thing about the Catalyst appearing as a young boy was that it was THE boy from the intro and dreams.
The same boy who boarded a shuttle that was shot down by a Reaper seconds later. In addition to crawling inside a vent, which had a Reaper fire a laser at the building.
Yes. The boy who made sounds in the vent when he was crawling at just the right moment to attract Shepard's attention.. and then did NOT make sounds crawling in the vent when he supposedly ducked out of sight.
The same boy that, when crawling onto the shuttle, was completely ignored by all the adults standing around. None of them lent a hand to pull him up.
The boy did exist, but it's very likely his body is actually laying in the rubble of the reaper-destroyed apartment, and the image Shepard sees is a reaper-inspired hallucination.
Remember the derelict reaper IFF mission and the recordings you could come across of the scientists as they experienced indoctrination? Where memories and experiences and thoughts started blurring together between individuals?
Dying boy wishing he could get away, memories of playing in the duct work, followed by "'You can't help me' because I'm already dying" the second half of which is not stated when Shepard tries to help. Shepard's mind 'sees' the boy getting onto the shuttle but it's a mental projection, not really what's happening.
Infrasound is known to cause ghostly images in the form of hallucinations.
Okay, about to do the Party, then Cerberus HQ, then Earth on this playthrough.
Final answer:
There is no Synthesis. I don't even consider this to be a possible ending. It's just so outlandish and impossible-sounding. Science is stretched throughout the series, but in all instances up to this point, they at least attempt to explain how everything could happen scientifically or even pseudoscientifically. Not so with Synthesis. With zero explanation, star brat would have you believe that he is a genie, and you just rubbed his lamp, and he has the power to magically grant wishes. I'm playing Mass Effect, not Aladdin. There is no way in hell that any Shepard that I would ever play would buy it. He'd call bullsh*t. Every. Single. Time. And if a tree never falls in the woods, it never makes a sound. There is no Synthesis.
Which leaves Control and Destroy. Control puts too much power in the hands of an individual, and it leaves the Reapers intact, with all their power to indoctrinate and destroy everyone. Should Shepard some day become corrupted or should they find a way to break free of his control, the galaxy could be right back in deep doo doo. Far too dangerous. Might be something a power-hungry Renegade Shep would choose, become supreme dictator bwahahaha, but I'm playing Paragon.
So Destroy it is. Sucks for EDI and the Geth, but I'm returning the galaxy back to the status quo, as was always my intent. If Organic/AI conflict arises again, civilization will deal with it when the time comes, just like every other problem that has arisen throughout history.
I actually think the endings work out okay as long as you take the Potato/Synthesis ending out of the options (and Refuse, which is just Bioware trolling the fans). Control is what TIM wanted, and is the Renegade option. Destroy is what Shepard, Hackett, and Anderson have wanted all along, and it's the Paragon option. Neat-o mosquito.
Done. Final thoughts before I move on to another game...
1) Remove the second "I was born in London" line. It's obviously an editing oversight. Should have been fixed in Extended Cut or a patch.
2) Change the Normandy evac. I'd have your two squadmates lying hurt after the Mako blast. They can't go on. Shepard calls for the evac, but instead of the Normandy, he calls for a shuttle. Shepard says his tearful goodbye and proceeds to the beam, leaving his two wounded squadmates behind some cover. Harbinger departs. Shepard enters the beam. Then a quick scene of a shuttle picking up your squad from the battlefield and flying off to the Normandy.
3) Remove Synthesis entirely. The choices are Destroy, Control, or Refuse.
Fixed. It'd be a pretty damn good ending that I'd be happy with. Not perfect, but nothing ever is.
Total annhialation is what the Reapers claim synthetics will do, not what they themselves do.
Oh, you buy into that being the point of the game. Right...
Anyway the entire universe isn't fictional because it include both real bits (e.g. humans) and fictional bits. If the real bits behave implausibly then it fails. The same is true when exploring potentially real concepts.
You've got that completely backwards. It shows how weak the story's writing actually is. You're applying the same standard to concepts that exist in the real world as to ones that are entirely made up (e.g. biotics). That's a weak argument. Might as well say "the women should get off the ship and back to the kitchen", have things in the story to prove it's right there, and say "well that's how it works in the fictional world." Most people would just call it misogynistic nonsense though.
Because that is what has happened in the past. What has repeated it's self many times. The reason the AI was even created was because synthetic creations were killing off entire species. Leviathan's responded to that action. The AI tried to bridge the differences but failed resulting in the genocide of one or the other. So finally it came up with the Reaper solution to prevent the complete loss of organic life and preserving it in a way that is almost indestructible.
It is one of the many themes you see running in it over all lining up the point of the Reapers and why they harvest each cycles the way they do.
The entire universe is fictional. Hey there are humans and bows and arrows that really exist in Lord of the Rings. By your logic that entire trilogy isn't in a fictional because it contains things that really exist?
No you are just showing how weak your argument actually is. One of the themes in the game is that in that universe AI and organics have a history of conflict. That conflict is what drives the Reapers to act as they do. Other wise they are purposeless creations doing stuff just for the lols. Turning them into interesting beings into 1D bad guys being evil just for the sake of being evil like some poorly made Saturday morning cartoon villain. You are the one ignoring this fact to try and pull the real world into the argument to support your weak claim.
It is like claiming we shouldn't engage in any industry because Saruman goes cartoonishly over the top in destroying the eco system when he turns evil. Which ignores one of the underlying points of the book is about respecting nature. But since he almost wiped out an entire forest in a week clearly all industry is bad right?
There is no Synthesis. I don't even consider this to be a possible ending. It's just so outlandish and impossible-sounding. Science is stretched throughout the series, but in all instances up to this point, they at least attempt to explain how everything could happen scientifically or even pseudoscientifically. Not so with Synthesis. With zero explanation, star brat would have you believe that he is a genie, and you just rubbed his lamp, and he has the power to magically grant wishes. I'm playing Mass Effect, not Aladdin. There is no way in hell that any Shepard that I would ever play would buy it. He'd call bullsh*t. Every. Single. Time. And if a tree never falls in the woods, it never makes a sound. There is no Synthesis.
Actually synthesis is entirely possible. The way they depict it in game might be stretching it. But no more so then the other endings.
Syntheis is boiling down to it's absolute barest set up simply organic bodies with heavy cybernetic implants.
Ghost in the Shell is a good example of maybe more practical and realistic instance of what synthesis would accomplish. The line between human and machine blurring so much that to interact with one all you would need to do is connect your mind to it to work it.
The changing of evolution is actually believable with the existing set up. So many small things can dictate evolutionary progress.
Actually synthesis is entirely possible. The way they depict it in game might be stretching it. But no more so then the other endings.
In a sci fi action story/movie/game, I can stretch things to buy that red energy can radiate out and identify and fry the circuits of reapers and other AI's it comes across. I can buy that a person's mind can be loaded into a computer and control a group of AI's.
I can't buy that a beam of energy can cause trillions of organic beings to grow implants or nanocomputers melded to their DNA or whatever Synthesis is supposed to do (it's not explained at all). It just stretches it way too far so as to make it completely unbuyable, for me at least.
In a sci fi action story/movie/game, I can stretch things to buy that red energy can radiate out and identify and fry the circuits of reapers and other AI's it comes across. I can buy that a person's mind can be loaded into a computer and control a group of AI's.
I can't buy that a beam of energy can cause trillions of organic beings to grow implants or nanocomputers melded to their DNA or whatever Synthesis is supposed to do (it's not explained at all). It just stretches it way too far so as to make it completely unbuyable, for me at least.
Nano machines. It is how they create husks and other reaper creations. This time they are giving the upgrade without stripping out the individuality and free will as well everything else that they usually remove to create husks.
Nano machines. It is how they create husks and other reaper creations. This time they are giving the upgrade without stripping out the individuality and free will as well everything else that they usually remove to create husks.
But husks are created by a "hands on" procedure. By the Dragon's Teeth in ME1, and by what is assumed to be a similar procedure in the processing plants in ME3. But I don't see how the nanomachines and upgrades can be inserted and integrated into trillions of beings across thousands of light years merely by exposure to green energy. My mind just refuses to make that stretch.
In a sci fi action story/movie/game, I can stretch things to buy that red energy can radiate out and identify and fry the circuits of reapers and other AI's it comes across. I can buy that a person's mind can be loaded into a computer and control a group of AI's.
I can't buy that a beam of energy can cause trillions of organic beings to grow implants or nanocomputers melded to their DNA or whatever Synthesis is supposed to do (it's not explained at all). It just stretches it way too far so as to make it completely unbuyable, for me at least.
Here's how synthesis works.
Here's how synthesis works.
And was Saren magically implanted by a wave of green energy from thousands of light years away? Or did someone or some machines surgically implant him manually aboard Sovereign's ship? Like TIM was shown to be surgically implanted in the video log at Cerberus HQ?
I don't disbelieve that organics can be implanted with tech and nanocomputers to become a combination of synthetic and organic. I disbelieve that it can be done by a magic wave of green energy from afar.
It's probably using technology far more advanced than what you have. The Crucible blueprints are tens of millions of years old. The kid simply describes how it works based upon the blueprints you found on Mars. He's just reading the instruction manual to you.
If it manipulates DNA using a beam, that's how it works. It's pretty advanced stuff.
But husks are created by a "hands on" procedure. By the Dragon's Teeth in ME1, and by what is assumed to be a similar procedure in the processing plants in ME3. But I don't see how the nanomachines and upgrades can be inserted and integrated into trillions of beings across thousands of light years merely by exposure to green energy. My mind just refuses to make that stretch.
Dragon Teeth are the on the spot with no direct Reaper way of creating Husks. TIM created husks without use of Dragon Teeth.
Nano machines created by the beam form the Cit. Coated in Eezo from the relays then fired when they go off. Self replicating nano machines would be easy to do and could replicate using the Ezo cores of each relay.
Because you want an imperfect electronic facsimile of your brain to be galactic dictator, or to unilaterally impose weird transhumanist green space eugenics on everyone?
Yeah, I've never gotten it either. It might have been an issue if the existence of the Crucible's design schematics and its destroy function itself didn't permanently solve the organic-synthetic problem. Rebuild it after you kill the Reapers (just like slides show happens with the Citadel), and if toasters get out of line again, organics have an I win button that can destroy them now. After enough trial and error we should get the programming right for our machines to serve their rightful purposes and improve the conditions of our existence, without them going haywire over metaphysical BS. Problem solved, and synthesis garbage isn't required at all.
Hell, this is probably what happens considering the stargazer scene isn't a couple of toasters talking about the extinct meatbags that created them. The writers really didn't think the magical plot device that is the Crucible through very much.
The same boy who boarded a shuttle that was shot down by a Reaper seconds later. In addition to crawling inside a vent, which had a Reaper fire a laser at the building.
That would be the intro 
Yes. The boy who made sounds in the vent when he was crawling at just the right moment to attract Shepard's attention.. and then did NOT make sounds crawling in the vent when he supposedly ducked out of sight.
The same boy that, when crawling onto the shuttle, was completely ignored by all the adults standing around. None of them lent a hand to pull him up.
The boy did exist, but it's very likely his body is actually laying in the rubble of the reaper-destroyed apartment, and the image Shepard sees is a reaper-inspired hallucination.
Remember the derelict reaper IFF mission and the recordings you could come across of the scientists as they experienced indoctrination? Where memories and experiences and thoughts started blurring together between individuals?
Dying boy wishing he could get away, memories of playing in the duct work, followed by "'You can't help me' because I'm already dying" the second half of which is not stated when Shepard tries to help. Shepard's mind 'sees' the boy getting onto the shuttle but it's a mental projection, not really what's happening.
If the boy really exists it is only when he is playing with his toy on the roof as Shepard watches from his time-out room. When you see him run into the building that gets blasted, that's already a hallucination. However, this is from Shepard's mind breaking due to stress, not Indoctrination.
I'm glad you point to the derelict Reaper from ME2. I always do when discussing Shepard being Indoctrinated. Shepard experiences none of that. One guy sees something move in a wall and disappear. Nobody sees a vivid hallucination of a person and talk to it. Those two guys have the same memory, but we don't know if it was one of theirs individually, someone else's or something entirely made up due to the Indoctrination. Shepard experiences none of that.
Everything in your last paragraph is completely induced by you.
Done. Final thoughts before I move on to another game...
1) Remove the second "I was born in London" line. It's obviously an editing oversight. Should have been fixed in Extended Cut or a patch.
2) Change the Normandy evac. I'd have your two squadmates lying hurt after the Mako blast. They can't go on. Shepard calls for the evac, but instead of the Normandy, he calls for a shuttle. Shepard says his tearful goodbye and proceeds to the beam, leaving his two wounded squadmates behind some cover. Harbinger departs. Shepard enters the beam. Then a quick scene of a shuttle picking up your squad from the battlefield and flying off to the Normandy.
3) Remove Synthesis entirely. The choices are Destroy, Control, or Refuse.
Fixed. It'd be a pretty damn good ending that I'd be happy with. Not perfect, but nothing ever is.
Good ideas but Control still needs a proper set up. Shepard just told TIM that humanity wasn't ready for such power. To then just do it anyway makes no sense. They needed to keep Daro'Xen and her plan to Control the Geth front and center to the plot. They needed to show that Controlling the enemy was a good thing.
It's probably using technology far more advanced than what you have. The Crucible blueprints are tens of millions of years old. The kid simply describes how it works based upon the blueprints you found on Mars. He's just reading the instruction manual to you.
If it manipulates DNA using a beam, that's how it works. It's pretty advanced stuff.
This is just a handwave and why people refer to Synthesis as "space magic." You're basically saying "a wizard did it." For me, Synthesis' main problems are it's thematic failures, but it's also a stretch of my suspension of disbelief.
No you just don't seem to understand what total annihilation actually means. Particularly when they don't just kill them off they preserve them in an near immortal shell that contains the sum of their knowledge and culture. Which is the complete opposite of annihilation.
The problem with this is that we can't see the value in this preservation. What is the benefit of being a Reaper? What value is storing the organic goop in the metal shell, either for that civilization or those to come? How is this better than annihilation? Why would anyone not oppose this?
One of the few good lines Shepard actually gets here is to say "I think we'd rather keep our own form."
Done. Final thoughts before I move on to another game...
1) Remove the second "I was born in London" line. It's obviously an editing oversight. Should have been fixed in Extended Cut or a patch.
Only the first one can be removed if the player doesn't talk to Anderson at all during the game
2) Change the Normandy evac. I'd have your two squadmates lying hurt after the Mako blast. They can't go on. Shepard calls for the evac, but instead of the Normandy, he calls for a shuttle. Shepard says his tearful goodbye and proceeds to the beam, leaving his two wounded squadmates behind some cover. Harbinger departs. Shepard enters the beam. Then a quick scene of a shuttle picking up your squad from the battlefield and flying off to the Normandy.
I agree about a shuttle picking up the squad. I don't agree about having another goodbye when it was already done a short time ago
Instead of having the what-the-crap evac scene, I would have where both squadmates are killed by Harbinger regardless of ems.
Or when Harbinger shoots at Shepard, the beam sends the squadmates back far enough that both only suffer minor injuries. Both see Shepard followed by Anderson up the beam. With Harbinger flying away, Steve, if alive, flies the shuttle to the location looking for survivors and finds the 2 squadmates.
What that does is give confirmation that 2 people, Shepard and Anderson, made it up the beam instead of hearing the voices say no one made it to the beam. Hackett can say that 2 people made it up and to give them time to get the arms open.
3) Remove Synthesis entirely. The choices are Destroy, Control, or Refuse.
Another way is to remove them all. Throughout the game no one knew exactly what the crucible will do. Hackett mentions that its believe to have enough energy to destroy them. Ok.
So when the arms are fully opened, the crucible fires its bag of goodies throughout the galaxy destroying the reapers. Or it sends out a pulse that reprograms the reapers to stop. They are seen leaving the galaxy. BioWare can flip a coin to decide which one to use.
What that does, is it gets rid of the magic carpet ride up to lala land. It gets rid of the thing called catalyst/intelligence. It gets rid of the comment, you do not know them, and there's not enough time to explain. It gets rid of the comment, sythesis is the final evolution of all life. It gets rid of the pull this, jump in this and shoot this endings
The problem with this is that we can't see the value in this preservation. What is the benefit of being a Reaper? What value is storing the organic goop in the metal shell, either for that civilization or those to come? How is this better than annihilation? Why would anyone not oppose this?
One of the few good lines Shepard actually gets here is to say "I think we'd rather keep our own form."
That feeds into the over all point of the trilogy that I think is bypassed a lot. Hypocrisy of advanced life.
Even with all the technological advancements made in the ME universe every species is still basically an over grown child with weapons that can wipe out an entire planet. The most mature of the group in the ME universe are the Asari and they are more closer to a teenager. So sure of their superiority they can't see or won't see when they are truly messing up.
Reapers see the hypocrisy and attempt to correct it in the only way possible. People are against becoming a Reaper for the same reason a teenager is against listening to their parents about hanging out with that bad crowd. They can't see they are part of the problem.
I don't begrudge others picking a different option, but I always choose destroy, I've never seen one of the other endings, and don't really care to.
It's a video game, so for all purposes I put myself in Sheppard's shoes. I fought through dozens of systems, killed thousands of organic and synthetic beings, lost friends, and already died once, just so that I can fight and destroy the reapers. Since before I was a Spectre, I've been all like "the REAL threat is the reapers." It's kind of my whole thing, my raison d'etre if you will. I sincerely doubt that I would be persuaded against my mission by an A.I. that just told me it created the reapers. I'm gonna go ahead and say that the thing that created the reapers (and therefore instituted a process whereby everything I hold dear will soon be destroyed) can be solidly labeled a not entirely trustworthy source. Maybe it's telling the truth about synthesis and control, maybe it's not, but this is what I know, I came here to kill reapers. Maybe destroying the reapers is just prolonging a millions of year old cycle, maybe it's not, but that's something my friend's descendants can worry about after I destroy the reapers. Everything I have seen up to this point in the reaper war (other than what the hologram that claims to have created the reapers just said) would point to either destroy the reapers, or everything I know and love will cease to exist. My friend's descendant's wont get to worry about a prolonged organic synthetic cycle, because they'll never have existed. My mission is not to solve all the Galaxy's problems (i.e. synthetic v. organic war) in perpetuity. The mission is to save my friends and species by killing the reapers. Control just sounds sketchy as hell. I just saw what seeking to control the reapers did to the illusive man. Not really something I think I'm gonna go for. And synthesis, while it sounds nice on the marco level (although seems to defy everything I know about science), does involve me making a choice that will alter every living being to the genetic level without their consent. I'm not playing God. That's not why I'm here. I'm here to fight and kill reapers. Hence, destroy.
The one thing that my Sheppard always thinks while stumbling towards the big red button is, "Man I sure hope that thing is lying about E.D.I. and the Geth." But after coming this far, you bet your ass I pull the trigger. I have to. All space-faring sapient life is depending on me. It's my mission. Cue the music.
I agree about a shuttle picking up the squad. I don't agree about having another goodbye when it was already done a short time ago
Instead of having the what-the-crap evac scene, I would have where both squadmates are killed by Harbinger regardless of ems.
Or when Harbinger shoots at Shepard, the beam sends the squadmates back far enough that both only suffer minor injuries. Both see Shepard followed by Anderson up the beam. With Harbinger flying away, Steve, if alive, flies the shuttle to the location looking for survivors and finds the 2 squadmates.
What that does is give confirmation that 2 people, Shepard and Anderson, made it up the beam instead of hearing the voices say no one made it to the beam. Hackett can say that 2 people made it up and to give them time to get the arms open.
I don't think killing your squad would work. In replay, people would pick their least favorite squadmates because they know they are about to be killed. So I've been playing with Garrus in every possible mission for 3 straight games, but then I never bring him to the last mission because I don't want to kill him off? It just swaps complaints about one thing for another.
I left the tearful goodbye in there because it's obviously what Bioware wanted, for emotional impact. Not that difficult to leave it in, IMO.
I do like the idea of someone seeing Shepard and Anderson making it.
Another way is to remove them all. Throughout the game no one knew exactly what the crucible will do. Hackett mentions that its believe to have enough energy to destroy them. Ok.
So when the arms are fully opened, the crucible fires its bag of goodies throughout the galaxy destroying the reapers. Or it sends out a pulse that reprograms the reapers to stop. They are seen leaving the galaxy. BioWare can flip a coin to decide which one to use.
What that does, is it gets rid of the magic carpet ride up to lala land. It gets rid of the thing called catalyst/intelligence. It gets rid of the comment, you do not know them, and there's not enough time to explain. It gets rid of the comment, sythesis is the final evolution of all life. It gets rid of the pull this, jump in this and shoot this endings
That works, too. I didn't really have a huge problem with the star brat, though, until he started talking about all that Synthesis nonsense.
Anyway, I was just listing what I think are the 3 biggest head-scratching, really, wtf-is-this-crap moments from the ending mission, and what I think would be simple, easy fixes, without having to make wholesale changes to the story. Born in London, Normandy evac, and Synthesis are the three that stand out the most to me. They are so ridiculous that they completely shatter the immersion of the scenes in which they take place... making you stop, look around, laugh and say you have got to be f'ing kidding me.
I don't think killing your squad would work. In replay, people would pick their least favorite squadmates because they know they are about to be killed. So I've been playing with Garrus in every possible mission for 3 straight games, but then I never bring him to the last mission because I don't want to kill him off? It just swaps complaints about one thing for another.
Why I have them being killed is because is if all the soldiers seen are getting killed when running to the beam, why can't they? What makes the squadmates anymore important than those people?
I left the tearful goodbye in there because it's obviously what Bioware wanted, for emotional impact. Not that difficult to leave it in, IMO.
I don't care about the added goodbye's. I found nothing emotional about them except to laugh at them.
That feeds into the over all point of the trilogy that I think is bypassed a lot. Hypocrisy of advanced life.
Even with all the technological advancements made in the ME universe every species is still basically an over grown child with weapons that can wipe out an entire planet. The most mature of the group in the ME universe are the Asari and they are more closer to a teenager. So sure of their superiority they can't see or won't see when they are truly messing up.
Reapers see the hypocrisy and attempt to correct it in the only way possible. People are against becoming a Reaper for the same reason a teenager is against listening to their parents about hanging out with that bad crowd. They can't see they are part of the problem.
One of the major problems with the ending is that the current cycle doesn't have the supposed problem. A better question is who the hell are the Reapers to make these decisions? The galaxy doesn't need or want them so they can F right off.
One of the major problems with the ending is that the current cycle doesn't have the supposed problem. A better question is who the ehell are theReapers to make these decisions? The galaxy doesn't need or want them so they can F right off.
Doesn't have the problem yet.
Reapers have millions of years of accumulated knowledge. Millions of years of watching the same cycles happening over and over again. Before the Reapers even existed the AI watched hundreds of thousands of years. Watching the same cycles repeat over and over again in the galaxy. The AI was created because of an issue that was large enough to actually gain the attention of the Leviathans.
The Reapers are the ones that actually learned from history. Who are willing to do what it takes to actually ensure organic life survives. To ensure the biodiversity of the universe remains unaltered.
We only know that organic-synthetic conflict happened in the Leviathan cycle and for all we know it could that their created wanted to save their creators from living in eternal thralldom or whatever. The Leviathan "cycle" was very specific. The rest? Uh well, some AI showed up, the Reapers munched them before they became a threat. Perhaps they became a threat because of Reaper interference. Or even the organics killed them. The protheans blew up their synthetics after their empire was already shattered.
Doesn't have the problem yet.
Reapers have millions of years of accumulated knowledge. Millions of years of watching the same cycles happening over and over again. Before the Reapers even existed the AI watched hundreds of thousands of years. Watching the same cycles repeat over and over again in the galaxy. The AI was created because of an issue that was large enough to actually gain the attention of the Leviathans.
The Reapers are the ones that actually learned from history. Who are willing to do what it takes to actually ensure organic life survives. To ensure the biodiversity of the universe remains unaltered.
Firstly, the Catalyst says "always." Only one counter example, in this case the Geth, is needed to break an "always" premise. Even if it happened every other time, it didn't happen here.
Secondly, you're making an appeal to authority. You just take the Reapers at their word because they say they've seen it. They have failed to convince us that they are right, so we have no reason to care.
Dantriges makes a good point as well. We only know this was an issue before the Reapers started. The Reapers may have reaped any or every other cycle before such synthetics were developed so they really don't know that they would have.
Retour en haut