If you take Javik on the Geth Dreadnought mission, he and Tali talk about the geth and the zha'til where this is explored.
I looked around, couldn´t find it. Most vids concentrate on the different squadpairings and their dialogues. 
Do you mean the after mission talk with Javik?
I looked around, couldn´t find it. Most vids concentrate on the different squadpairings and their dialogues.
I believe this is what he's referring to
Those people on the internet call it what it seems to be. Saren and Harbinger are irrelevent to it (actual physical replacement of parts is hardly the sort of thing Synthesis is on about), and all the Catalyst offers is an attempt at explaining what the result of it is once you've thrown yourself into the "convert everyone by magic" button. And that's what it is. All of a sudden there's a green beam that changes everything? And that's not magic? At least with other bits of space magic in the series (basically anything related to eezo) it's established as part of the setting right from the start, and isn't quite so ludicrously far-fetched in its consequences.Synthesis isn't space magic. Nothing in the game calls it that. Only people on the internet do. Synthesis was explained in the game (initially with Saren, followed up by Harbinger & the kid), and expanded on in the Extended Cut to make it more clear.
Perhaps how you think synthesis works isn't how the game portrays it.
Javik and his snark... against Liara. 
Fortunately, the genophage stopped the...
Oh, wait, wrong genocidal war.
But even in this case, the geth held back. So they are doubly invalid as an example: You can make peace with them, and they didn't exterminate the quarians (unless backed into a corner).
You don't prevent death by killing everyone. Everyone who went into the blender is DEAD!
Yea the Genophage pretty effectively shows Organics tend towards War with being they don't like. The key reason the Batarian and Humans never go into war is because the Council wouldn't like it. And neither side, particularly Batarians could withstand the full brunt of the entire Citadel Fleet. The Krogan only highlight this issue is not limited to just O vs S.
They held back only at the end. And what did that action result in? The Quarians coming back around for another attack. With the intent to fight to the death over the planet. Throwing ever man, woman and child into harms way in an attempt to kill off. Or capture them and give them an AI version of a lobotomy turning them back into mindless VI programs.
Death dose prevent death. If it didn't then every war we have ever waged on this planet was utterly and completely pointless and anyone who participated in it should be thrown in jail and have the key tossed away. The harvesting of the Protheans and their servants lead to the rise of the in game Cycle species. Who wouldn't exist if the species before the Protheans were harvested. Sacrifice billions so Quadrillions can live. It is why (supposedly) the UK government in WW2 allowed the Germans to bomb Coventry. To keep them from realizing they had broken their code in preparation for D Day. Knowing those codes was a massive advantage. To alert the Germans to it before D Day would result in them changing the code and losing that advantage of spying on their communications. They let thousands die so millions more wouldn't.
Yes and you see the same in the Military. Soldiers all act with a common goal under the command of a General or Admiral in Navy. If the General says take that town. All branches of the military under his command and all soldiers under his command respond by attempting to take the town. So again the Reapers don't act any different then we do. The AI is their leader. Their leader says to do X or Y. And they for fill said requirement.
Unless you are calling anyone in the military, police force, TSA, retail associates or really any occupation were everyone works towards a singular goal mindless slaves? Because I have my own issues with things like that but I wouldn't call them mindless slaves.
So at first you claim making peace with Geth means no war with synthetics. Thus showing the Reaper's logic as flawed. Yet I have shown you our own history that shows just because you make peace with one set up won't prevent all war. Singling out the Geth as the beginning and end of all Synthetic life is like saying Donald Trump is the beginning and end of all humans.
They don't harvest anyone who can harvest gun powder. They harvest species that have advanced enough to become a danger not only to themselves but to the rest of the galaxy at large. Protheans are best example as they quite literally killed several planets though orbital bombardment. Eden Prime was a Prothean Colony attacked by the Reapers. By the time Humans found it it was a lush green planet. In the same time there are dead worlds with clearly visible impacts from orbital cannons.
Yes Sovergin was lying. But the option it presented the Geth were to good for some to pass up as they saw it as the culmination of everything they wanted. Why take though force what you can take though guile? Particularly when it serves your needs? Had Sovereign's plans worked it would have summoned the other Reapers and would have struck a blow at the heart of the Galaxy's population. This was literally a no lose situation for Sovergin. Until Shep stepped in anyways.
AI is quite sane. The fact is if you think Destroy option is valid then all other options would have to be valid. It would not tell the truth about giving you an ability to destroy it. Then lie about control or synthesis option. You don't have to like the AI's logic but you have to acknowledge there is logic behind it's actions.
Liking the logic and acknowledging it are not the same thing.
Those people on the internet call it what it seems to be. Saren and Harbinger are irrelevent to it (actual physical replacement of parts is hardly the sort of thing Synthesis is on about), and all the Catalyst offers is an attempt at explaining what the result of it is once you've thrown yourself into the "convert everyone by magic" button. And that's what it is. All of a sudden there's a green beam that changes everything? And that's not magic? At least with other bits of space magic in the series (basically anything related to eezo) it's established as part of the setting right from the start, and isn't quite so ludicrously far-fetched in its consequences.
Synthesis follows the same logic as a magic red space wave that only effects Reapers. Or a magic electrical pylon that some how allows data transfer from an organic mind into a vast super computer.
Those people on the internet call it what it seems to be. Saren and Harbinger are irrelevent to it (actual physical replacement of parts is hardly the sort of thing Synthesis is on about), and all the Catalyst offers is an attempt at explaining what the result of it is once you've thrown yourself into the "convert everyone by magic" button. And that's what it is. All of a sudden there's a green beam that changes everything? And that's not magic? At least with other bits of space magic in the series (basically anything related to eezo) it's established as part of the setting right from the start, and isn't quite so ludicrously far-fetched in its consequences.
It's not a green beam that changes everything. It's more of a form of energy that alters the DNA of everyone in the galaxy. This form of energy will preserve organics into Reaper form. Only the advanced ones. The lesser species are not affected by this.
It was explained quite well. People just don't like the explanation.
Yea the Genophage pretty effectively shows Organics tend towards War with being they don't like. The key reason the Batarian and Humans never go into war is because the Council wouldn't like it. And neither side, particularly Batarians could withstand the full brunt of the entire Citadel Fleet. The Krogan only highlight this issue is not limited to just O vs S.
They held back only at the end. And what did that action result in? The Quarians coming back around for another attack. With the intent to fight to the death over the planet. Throwing ever man, woman and child into harms way in an attempt to kill off. Or capture them and give them an AI version of a lobotomy turning them back into mindless VI programs.
Death dose prevent death. If it didn't then every war we have ever waged on this planet was utterly and completely pointless and anyone who participated in it should be thrown in jail and have the key tossed away. The harvesting of the Protheans and their servants lead to the rise of the in game Cycle species. Who wouldn't exist if the species before the Protheans were harvested. Sacrifice billions so Quadrillions can live. It is why (supposedly) the UK government in WW2 allowed the Germans to bomb Coventry. To keep them from realizing they had broken their code in preparation for D Day. Knowing those codes was a massive advantage. To alert the Germans to it before D Day would result in them changing the code and losing that advantage of spying on their communications. They let thousands die so millions more wouldn't.
Yes and you see the same in the Military. Soldiers all act with a common goal under the command of a General or Admiral in Navy. If the General says take that town. All branches of the military under his command and all soldiers under his command respond by attempting to take the town. So again the Reapers don't act any different then we do. The AI is their leader. Their leader says to do X or Y. And they for fill said requirement.
Unless you are calling anyone in the military, police force, TSA, retail associates or really any occupation were everyone works towards a singular goal mindless slaves? Because I have my own issues with things like that but I wouldn't call them mindless slaves.
So at first you claim making peace with Geth means no war with synthetics. Thus showing the Reaper's logic as flawed. Yet I have shown you our own history that shows just because you make peace with one set up won't prevent all war. Singling out the Geth as the beginning and end of all Synthetic life is like saying Donald Trump is the beginning and end of all humans.
They don't harvest anyone who can harvest gun powder. They harvest species that have advanced enough to become a danger not only to themselves but to the rest of the galaxy at large. Protheans are best example as they quite literally killed several planets though orbital bombardment. Eden Prime was a Prothean Colony attacked by the Reapers. By the time Humans found it it was a lush green planet. In the same time there are dead worlds with clearly visible impacts from orbital cannons.
Yes Sovergin was lying. But the option it presented the Geth were to good for some to pass up as they saw it as the culmination of everything they wanted. Why take though force what you can take though guile? Particularly when it serves your needs? Had Sovereign's plans worked it would have summoned the other Reapers and would have struck a blow at the heart of the Galaxy's population. This was literally a no lose situation for Sovergin. Until Shep stepped in anyways.
AI is quite sane. The fact is if you think Destroy option is valid then all other options would have to be valid. It would not tell the truth about giving you an ability to destroy it. Then lie about control or synthesis option. You don't have to like the AI's logic but you have to acknowledge there is logic behind it's actions.
Liking the logic and acknowledging it are not the same thing.
So yo agree synthetics aren't the only genocidal folks around? Good.
The geth didn't wipe out the quarians when they could have. And they didn't evolve enough for the quarians to come back three centuries later and crush them (except for the Reapers interfering to "prove" their point)
The Protheans were already studying and uplifting the current cycle of species. The Reapers were just slaughtering. ANd not just soldier, but noncombatants, women, children. Turning them into slush or monsters.
"I control the Reapers. THey are my solution. The broken machine is controlling the Reapers. Soldier, police, etc have free will and can object to illegal/immoral orders, can resign, switch sides, or heck even disagree.
Peace with the geth doesn't mean there will never be war. It means peace is possible. And the Catalyst is just spouting absolutist nonsense.
The Reapers harvest civilizations before they reach the point where they can build those eeeeeevil synthetics. The gunpowder analogy works.
Sovereign also worked with the HEretics to subvert the other geth, to repurpose them to suit the Reaper's purpose when the geth had no interest infighting the other organics.
I don;'t think any of the options are valid.
The Catalyst's logic is that organics and synthetics cannot coexist peacefully. One must dominate or destroy the other. I reject that wholeheartedly.
It's not a green beam that changes everything. It's more of a form of energy that alters the DNA of everyone in the galaxy. This form of energy will preserve organics into Reaper form. Only the advanced ones. The lesser species are not affected by this.
Huh what?
Let´s ignore the violation of basic biology taught in secondary schools for a bit.
Did I miss the memo? Last time I saw the ending, all organics were still running around in their original bodies or their new husk versions, if they were turned before the end, not in reaper form. They just got green circuit boards and glowing eyes.
Even friggin leaves got green circuits and when foliage on some random uninhabited planet suddenly goes WLAN, animals and prespaceflight species do so too or whatever you mean with "lesser species."
About this whole war thing.
It´s funny that we talk about wars that happened over thousand years ago.
We had two major galactic conflicts, Rachni and Krogan, then the Morning War as the next biggest thing and some incidents involving the batarians. Oh yeah and some skirmish when humans showed up.
Funny thing is, seems that the Rachni Wars were actually started by someone else, most likely Sovereign.
For all the incompetence the council showed in the trilogy, the council system actually seemed to be pretty awesome at keeping peace in the regions it governed. Ok it´s not eternal peace for billions of years but quite good for people with limited life spans. But yeah it´s not in the realm of absolute and forever. 
Haven´t heard much of synth vs synth wars, because well the Reapers move in like a cleansing fire before it happens and ah well getting shot at and shooting people for 300 years doesn´t qualify as war in Reaper Newspeak.
Sacrifice billions so Quadrillions can live.
Sacrifice billions of humans so quadrillions of Yahg can live and quadrillions of humans will never be born.
I believe this is what he's referring to
Spoiler
Ah thanks. Doesn´t talk about when the meddling happened, though, same in the after mission talk.
It's not a green beam that changes everything. It's more of a form of energy that alters the DNA of everyone in the galaxy. This form of energy will preserve organics into Reaper form. Only the advanced ones. The lesser species are not affected by this.
It was explained quite well. People just don't like the explanation.
Well, no it's not. It's explained almost exactly as you said. You jump into a green beam and suddenly your DNA and consciousness turn into some kind of energy that violates pretty much all laws of physics and biology and makes everyone and everything the same. And you can always take the fallback position of saying that any sufficiently advanced technology will be indistinguishable from magic, but that's the problem. I mean, this is a story that's gone to great lengths to explain how the genophage works and how the cure works, and even if you have to stretch it it's based in science. But then in the end game you're supposed to buy into what a kid tells you about this strange room and these three options you have.
It's really not a good ending and it's not sufficiently explained, but at the same time I don't care. It's a great series so I'm fine hand-waving the end.
The whole scene would make more sense if some ancient ascended being popped up at the end and told you that magic is real and the crucible is a magic artifact, which finally allows them to cross over to the physical realm again and blow the Reapers to kingdom come. 
Destroy is the only option I won't choose, though I feel like in the long run, synthesis (as presented) is the only viable solution to the "problem".
First and foremost, I always have the Geth on side, and frankly, they're the race most worth saving if you ask me. The Geth want nothing more than to be left alone while they evolve themselves for an eternity. They are the literal embodiment of "everything works best if we all work together", where "we" appies not just to themselves, but everyone else. So no, I won't pick the option that destroys them.
The other problem is that if the Reapers are destroyed, the problem they were created to solve is inevitable. History will forget, and biologicals will build helper AI's that gain sentience and turn on their creators, and next time, the rogue AI might not have the good graces to restrain from annihilating all biological life in the galaxy, instead of just the advanced species on a timetable. To prevent this, either the problem must be solved (the Reapers never solved the problem, the harvesting cycle was only a stop gap). Synthesis solves the problem, since it presumably allows biological life to evolve itself rather than create it's own enslaver, though it's kind of space magic, so I can see people wanting to just ignore that.
I think control works, at least for a lot longer than Destroy. I think that Shepard will be aware enough of the potential of their own corruption to take steps to safeguard against it. A bigger worry to me is that without the harvests, the Reapers can't replenish themselves, and presumably would have a hard time enhancing their own technology to stay ahead of everyone else. This means that if the Geth or the Krogans do get out of hand, and the Reapers have to intervene to keep the peace, and this keeps happening, they're numbers will become diminished and they won't be able to keep the peace anymore. If the Reapers can't fight, either because they have lost too many units, or they're technology is no longer so much more advanced, they will not be able to enforce the peace, and they will have failed.
Hopefully the heat death of the Universe happens first.
The other thought...given the proliferation of life in the Milky Way, it can be assumed that other Galaxy's also contain organic life. We don't know that the Reapers are the biggest and baddest threat out there, and anyone invading Galaxy would almost certainly be a technological level to make the Reapers the underdogs in that fight. The other races of the Galaxy wouldn't stand a chance. Wouldn't it be something for Shepard to destroy the reapers, only for a super powerful race with the benefit of millions of years traveling the stars to come looking, attracted by the huge expenditure of energy destroying the Reapers puts out, and wipe the Milky Way clean.
So yo agree synthetics aren't the only genocidal folks around? Good.
The geth didn't wipe out the quarians when they could have. And they didn't evolve enough for the quarians to come back three centuries later and crush them (except for the Reapers interfering to "prove" their point)
The Protheans were already studying and uplifting the current cycle of species. The Reapers were just slaughtering. ANd not just soldier, but noncombatants, women, children. Turning them into slush or monsters.
"I control the Reapers. THey are my solution. The broken machine is controlling the Reapers. Soldier, police, etc have free will and can object to illegal/immoral orders, can resign, switch sides, or heck even disagree.
Peace with the geth doesn't mean there will never be war. It means peace is possible. And the Catalyst is just spouting absolutist nonsense.
The Reapers harvest civilizations before they reach the point where they can build those eeeeeevil synthetics. The gunpowder analogy works.
Sovereign also worked with the HEretics to subvert the other geth, to repurpose them to suit the Reaper's purpose when the geth had no interest infighting the other organics.
I don;'t think any of the options are valid.
The Catalyst's logic is that organics and synthetics cannot coexist peacefully. One must dominate or destroy the other. I reject that wholeheartedly.
Never said Synthetics were the only one's capable of Genocide. In fact in my mind the Organics are the ones that start the conflict with Synthetics 7 out of 10 times.
The entire reason the Quarians attacked the Geth is their networking system started to evolve beyond what they originally intended. Becoming a self aware synthetic being. Rather then just a bunch if VI's pooling their processing power to allow them to do more complicated tasks. Their evolution is quite evident during events of ME3. The Reaper signal only amounts to preventing the Quarian secret weapon from disrupting them anymore. The Geth Dreadnought which existed before the Reaper took over was beating the ever loving hell out of the Quarian Fleet. Even going to far as to throw what was it 3 frigates at it only to make a small hole on it. Strip out the Reapers and strip out magic space plot device for Quarians and all Shep would have had to do on Rannoch is report back the complete death of all Quarians.
And again the concept the Reapers agree with the AI is impossible? They must clearly be mindless slaves. The fact the Geth agree with what the Reapers want to do doesn't kind of hint at something. The only difference is the Geth want to achieve it on their own. Soldiers are controlled by their higher ups. If they were told to bomb that German town as it was producing war supplies. They jumped in their B 17's and saturation bombed the **** out of that town. Killing both their targets and innocent bystanders.
Peace is possible but doesn't mean it won't cause war. AI created the Reapers after it saw it's attempts to create peace fail time and time again. More times resulting in war then peace. The AI didn't just wake up after being created and decide to harvest everyone. It attempted to for fill it's objective and found it failed more then it succeed. So it created the cycles. Harvesting all Oragnic and Synthetic life. Preventing any species from developing to that point to prevent conflict. Once Synthetics advance far beyond what Organic's are capable of. Fear sets in. Fear feeds irrational thoughts. Irrational thought is what leads to war.
On the flip side give the Geth 1000 years or so of time alone and by the time they interact with the rest of the galaxy organics would seem like mentally handicapped 3 year olds. Which is exactly what the Protheans experienced with the Metcon Wars. Unprovoked synthetic attack that resulting in the Protheans forcibly recruiting all advanced organic life under their banner as second class citizens to them.
No they harvest them before they reach the point of allowing synthetics to advance far enough to evolve beyond Organic's and their control. The AI treats Organic and Synthetics as equals. Synthetics start out as slaves to organics. Their evolution is dictated by the restrictions that organic's place on them. After a certain point it goes from a tool created to assist into a form of slavery. To be allowed to fully evolve synthetics would need to be freed from the restrictions place on them by organics. At that point they would evolve at a much faster rate then organics would. Surpassing their creators and creating 2 possible paths.
Path 1: The creators begin to fear their creations. Seeing how much they surpass them they attack them to regain mastery starting a war
Path 2: The Creation sees just how far it has advanced beyond the creator. Doesn't come to the conclusion why it should treat these inferior being with equality. Which again leads to war.
Yes Sovergin did. Part of the whole Reaper strategy of using existing species as their soldiers to wear down defenses so that way species can be properly harvested. In a way it is sort of what US and Soviet Union did during the Cold War. Fighting many little proxy wars. Backing different groups, supplying them with gear needed to wage war. But never directly putting their own soldiers in harm's way. But still ensuring they got what they want out of it. In this case synthetics are always the easiest first wave of soldiers because it requires the least amount of effort to gain control of them with the most reward out of it.
So if no option is valid then you always pick refuse? If you pick destroy just once and it actually kills off the Reapers then that means all other options are equally valid.
Who said anything about dominate? Organic and synthetic being are fundamentally different. We can't even understand different cultures of our own species. We think differently, we act differently we have different values. Those differences is what leads to conflict here on Earth. There is no reason for me to belief that would change suddenly once we got space flight. Nor once we create a synthetic being(s) that are even more alien to us then the Turians were when Humans first activated the Charon Relay.
The whole scene would make more sense if some ancient ascended being popped up at the end and told you that magic is real and the crucible is a magic artifact, which finally allows them to cross over to the physical realm again and blow the Reapers to kingdom come.
"You're a wizard, Shepard!" 
The entire reason the Quarians attacked the Geth is their networking system started to evolve beyond what they originally intended. Becoming a self aware synthetic being. Rather then just a bunch if VI's pooling their processing power to allow them to do more complicated tasks. Their evolution is quite evident during events of ME3. The Reaper signal only amounts to preventing the Quarian secret weapon from disrupting them anymore. The Geth Dreadnought which existed before the Reaper took over was beating the ever loving hell out of the Quarian Fleet. Even going to far as to throw what was it 3 frigates at it only to make a small hole on it. Strip out the Reapers and strip out magic space plot device for Quarians and all Shep would have had to do on Rannoch is report back the complete death of all Quarians.
The quarians came up with an effective measure to fight the geth, one that pushed the geth all the way back to Rannoch and threatened to wipe them out completely.
The Reaper signal didn't just render the geth immune to this measure, but put them under Reaper control "Is sumission not preferable to extinction"? The geth decided the answer was "yes" LEgion admits it.
And again the concept the Reapers agree with the AI is impossible? They must clearly be mindless slaves. The fact the Geth agree with what the Reapers want to do doesn't kind of hint at something. The only difference is the Geth want to achieve it on their own. Soldiers are controlled by their higher ups. If they were told to bomb that German town as it was producing war supplies. They jumped in their B 17's and saturation bombed the **** out of that town. Killing both their targets and innocent bystanders.
Peace is possible but doesn't mean it won't cause war. AI created the Reapers after it saw it's attempts to create peace fail time and time again. More times resulting in war then peace. The AI didn't just wake up after being created and decide to harvest everyone. It attempted to for fill it's objective and found it failed more then it succeed. So it created the cycles. Harvesting all Oragnic and Synthetic life. Preventing any species from developing to that point to prevent conflict. Once Synthetics advance far beyond what Organic's are capable of. Fear sets in. Fear feeds irrational thoughts. Irrational thought is what leads to war.
And Reapers are created by murdering millions of organics and pouring them into a Reaper shell. You think no one in all the thousands of cycles had a problem with that?
Is a calm institutionalized genocide somehow "better" than an irrational war?
Until they faced extinction, only about 5% of the geth turned Heretic.
On the flip side give the Geth 1000 years or so of time alone and by the time they interact with the rest of the galaxy organics would seem like mentally handicapped 3 year olds. Which is exactly what the Protheans experienced with the Metcon Wars. Unprovoked synthetic attack that resulting in the Protheans forcibly recruiting all advanced organic life under their banner as second class citizens to them.
Who cares what the geth think of us in a thousand years, as long as they sty in their Dyson Sphere and spend their days calculating pi? We have nothing they want, they have nothing we want.
The Metacon War was fought against the zha'til, the "geth of my cycle" which were subverted by the Reapers. That whole war is invalid as far the the Reaper argument goes, since it was instigated by them to begin with.
No they harvest them before they reach the point of allowing synthetics to advance far enough to evolve beyond Organic's and their control. The AI treats Organic and Synthetics as equals. Synthetics start out as slaves to organics. Their evolution is dictated by the restrictions that organic's place on them. After a certain point it goes from a tool created to assist into a form of slavery. To be allowed to fully evolve synthetics would need to be freed from the restrictions place on them by organics. At that point they would evolve at a much faster rate then organics would. Surpassing their creators and creating 2 possible paths.
Path 1: The creators begin to fear their creations. Seeing how much they surpass them they attack them to regain mastery starting a war
Path 2: The Creation sees just how far it has advanced beyond the creator. Doesn't come to the conclusion why it should treat these inferior being with equality. Which again leads to war.
Yes Sovergin did. Part of the whole Reaper strategy of using existing species as their soldiers to wear down defenses so that way species can be properly harvested. In a way it is sort of what US and Soviet Union did during the Cold War. Fighting many little proxy wars. Backing different groups, supplying them with gear needed to wage war. But never directly putting their own soldiers in harm's way. But still ensuring they got what they want out of it. In this case synthetics are always the easiest first wave of soldiers because it requires the least amount of effort to gain control of them with the most reward out of it.
Oh, well that perfectly validates the Reaper argument about the "inevitability" of war between organics and synthetics 
So if no option is valid then you always pick refuse? If you pick destroy just once and it actually kills off the Reapers then that means all other options are equally valid.
Who said anything about dominate? Organic and synthetic being are fundamentally different. We can't even understand different cultures of our own species. We think differently, we act differently we have different values. Those differences is what leads to conflict here on Earth. There is no reason for me to belief that would change suddenly once we got space flight. Nor once we create a synthetic being(s) that are even more alien to us then the Turians were when Humans first activated the Charon Relay.
No option is valid. The entire premise is organics and synthetics are incapable of coexisting:
Destroy: organics exterminate all synthetics
Control: organics are forever dominated by synthetics (the Reapers)
Synthesis: Everyone is forced to change who and what they are a the genetic and even molecular level to meet some arbitrary definition of "perfection" or face annihilation. Implications unpleasant....
Conflict happens. War happens. You can't just program everybody to play nice. Not without subverting free will.
No option is valid. The entire premise is organics and synthetics are incapable of coexisting:
Destroy: organics exterminate all synthetics
Control: organics are forever dominated by synthetics (the Reapers)
Synthesis: Everyone is forced to change who and what they are a the genetic and even molecular level to meet some arbitrary definition of "perfection" or face annihilation. Implications unpleasant....
Conflict happens. War happens. You can't just program everybody to play nice. Not without subverting free will.
This is one of the best summaries I've read on the end game problem. Sorry that I don't have more to add.
That is not a summary. It is an interpretation of the choices, that's all. The choices can be seen differently, create other interpretations. It depends on the player's skills in reading.
Oh, God. This again. Your passionate fervor that ME makes sense is the one thing that manages to made me actively avoid threads like this, and I'm reminded that you're still around and telling people that they just can't read. Good job not explaining anything.
That is not a summary. It is an interpretation of the choices, that's all. The choices can be seen differently, create other interpretations. It depends on the player's skills in reading.
And not even an accurate one, at that.
No option is valid. The entire premise is organics and synthetics are incapable of coexisting:
Destroy: organics exterminate all synthetics
Control: organics are forever dominated by synthetics (the Reapers)
Synthesis: Everyone is forced to change who and what they are a the genetic and even molecular level to meet some arbitrary definition of "perfection" or face annihilation. Implications unpleasant....
Conflict happens. War happens. You can't just program everybody to play nice. Not without subverting free will.
The quarians came up with an effective measure to fight the geth, one that pushed the geth all the way back to Rannoch and threatened to wipe them out completely.
The Reaper signal didn't just render the geth immune to this measure, but put them under Reaper control "Is sumission not preferable to extinction"? The geth decided the answer was "yes" LEgion admits it.
And Reapers are created by murdering millions of organics and pouring them into a Reaper shell. You think no one in all the thousands of cycles had a problem with that?
Is a calm institutionalized genocide somehow "better" than an irrational war?
Until they faced extinction, only about 5% of the geth turned Heretic.
Who cares what the geth think of us in a thousand years, as long as they sty in their Dyson Sphere and spend their days calculating pi? We have nothing they want, they have nothing we want.
The Metacon War was fought against the zha'til, the "geth of my cycle" which were subverted by the Reapers. That whole war is invalid as far the the Reaper argument goes, since it was instigated by them to begin with.
Oh, well that perfectly validates the Reaper argument about the "inevitability" of war between organics and synthetics
No option is valid. The entire premise is organics and synthetics are incapable of coexisting:
Destroy: organics exterminate all synthetics
Control: organics are forever dominated by synthetics (the Reapers)
Synthesis: Everyone is forced to change who and what they are a the genetic and even molecular level to meet some arbitrary definition of "perfection" or face annihilation. Implications unpleasant....
Conflict happens. War happens. You can't just program everybody to play nice. Not without subverting free will.
Putting them under Reaper control didn't change how much they had advanced and evovled up to that point. It didn't change the fact the Geth Dreadnought was tearing the Quarian Fleet a new butt hole. It did change the fact that the Quarian weapon was rendered ineffective against them. Which removed the one advantage the Quarians had for a successful attack.
Doesn't matter what they think. You honestly think that steak you are eating came from a cow who dreamed since they day they were born to be fattened up and then slaughtered so you could have a steak? Or that bannana who wanted to grow nice and big just to be cut from the tree, transported to a store to sit on display, taken home then left to rot on the counter top before being thrown away? You really don't understand the hypocrisy of you complaining about what the Reapers do compared to what we do.
Murder is Murder. Death is Death. Reapers murder because the AI says so. Solders murder because their commanders say so. Each rationalize their actions in their own ways. But either way it involves murder and death to further their goals. To do what they perceive as right and for the betterment of their culture, country, planet, galaxy.
That 5% of the Geth were able to steam roll all over the Citadel Fleet. Even taking out or nearly taking out the Desnity Ascension which was the largest and most powerful ship created in that cycle. Remember Sovereign basically ignored everything and headed right for the citadel. Only destorying any ship that was stupid enough to get in it's way by sheer blunt impact of hitting it.
It matters because organic's will worry. They will fear the Geth are advancing to much. they will try to interfear which will cause the Geth to react. Then there is the fact there are people who will try to replicate the Geth. Just because one version is willing to be at peace as long as they are left alone. Doesn't mean the next version will do the same.
The Metacon War was not against the Zah'til. They stopped the Zah'til by causing the sun to go super nova killing them all off. It was pretty clear it was early in the Prothean Empire that they encountered it. They forcibly united all advanced civilizations under their banner. According to Javik over time all species came to see themselves as Prothean. Hence why it is stated in ME1 that it was odd that the Protheans seemed to be the only space faring species of that time. Like wise it is well known the Reapers hit the Citadel first. Crippling the Empire. The Zah'til couldn't have been the cause of the Metacon War. How ever yes when the Reapers invaded they used them as pawns much like they did with the rest of the species.
Yes it does because difference is the biggest cause of conflict. And you can't get much different then an organic being or a completely synthetic being.
Your list of the options are funny.
Destroy only kills existing synthetics. Not anymore that could and would be developed in the future. Which would have developed anyways. So hat doesn't solve the eventual problem that will develop again
Control very clearly states that the new Shep AI will simply act as a guardian to all species. Not directly controlling them at all or putting them at it's mercy. Considering Peace is established oh so often by one group being stronger then the other. An AI with control of an entire Reaper army would allow him to put the pressure necessary to keep wars from breaking out. Which you know is exactly how the Council works anyways.
Synthesis no one changes who they are. Simply how they are made. It isn't an arbitrary concept of perfection. The change isn't to make you perfect is is to bridge the gap between synthetic and organic beings. There isn't any mention of perfection any were in the AI's description.
Conflict does happen. How ever the key reason for conflict is misunderstanding. If everyone understands each other the chance for conflict is severely reduced. You are literally pulling the Free will statement out of thin air to validate your claim when free will was never something that was under effect.
The entire reason the Geth and Quarians started a War was a lack of understanding between the two.
Yeah all highly unpleasant. I always view synthesis as to likely involve the subversion of individual free will.
All solutions are deeply suspicious too given the rank stench of deranged ideology wafting off them.
But it doesn't. Not in the slightest. It seems rather common the players will create out of nothing reasons that never exist in game for supporting their logic. Even if they have to create entire stuff up from nothing.
That is not a summary. It is an interpretation of the choices, that's all. The choices can be seen differently, create other interpretations. It depends on the player's skills in reading.
I am quite skilled at reading, thank you.
Or that bannana who wanted to grow nice and big just to be cut from the tree, transported to a store to sit on display, taken home then left to rot on the counter top before being thrown away? You really don't understand the hypocrisy of you complaining about what the Reapers do compared to what we do.
Did you just compare throwing away a rotten banana to murder?
Did you just compare throwing away a rotten banana to murder?
Yes because the parellels exist. The banana would live a long full life on it's own. But you choose to pick it. Shorten it's life span. Before it's death would have resulting in another banana tree. Or enriching the soil around the tree helping the next batch and ensure the tree remains strong. But now it's death becomes utterly pointless thrown in a plastic bag and dumped in a hole in the ground.
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