For all those claiming much like the Catalyst does that Synthesis is the only way to permanently solve the conflict and avoid more "chaos", I'd like to know how the synthetics are ever going to pose a threat to their creators again given the existing knowledge of the magic Crucible red beam and its ability to throw the off switch on seemingly everything with a circuit board that can talk. Is it explained somewhere that the plans for it are lost or due to space magic reasons that it can't be rebuilt and used against them again just like the Reapers if the synthetics get uppity? If advanced organics are doomed with Destroy, why is the Stargazer scene not changed to a couple of toasters exchanging data on their extinct creators?
Until any of that happens, I'm going to continue to conclude that the existence of the Crucible as a thing that can be built permanently sets the score at Meatbags-1, Toasters-0. The Catalyst can get butthurt about its "chaos" all it wants, but in my canon those toasters are going to serve their rightful masters and build our utopia until the heat death of the universe, or they're gonna get permanently deactivated by the red beam when they start acting up again. I don't have to kill and remake all sentient creatures (and even nonsentient ones like trees, seemingly) into mindless toaster slaves at all to solve the problem.
I made peace on Rannoch. Dunno about you.
by enslaving the quarians to their creations under threat of genocide and extinction? Great, so now synthetics dominate the organics instead of the other way round. That totally wouldn't lead to a ton of animosity or anything leading to future slave revolts, nope. Nor would the geth ever go back on Legion's (who has a great track record with not ever dishonestly stealing, lying or using propaganda to make its arguments) word that they are frolicking peace loving Pinocchios who all just wanna get along at any point in the future. I'm just gonna ignore that in my playthrough they essentially all got turned into Heretics (no Legion), viewed organics as essentially lesser species (per Geth VI's opinion), nevermind that in every playthrough they intentionally allied with the Reapers to exterminate all the meatbags. The reasoning is ultimately irrelevant when the results are the same.
people attempting to use the Rannoch ceasefire as ammunition against the Catalyst is utterly laughable. Though I loathe the choices given to deal with it and am therefore glad it was deleted, I wonder how many would make this flatly nonsense argument if Admiral Xen's sidequest (where she was to resist, regain control of and could literally wipe out half of the remaining geth consensus only days after your vaunted "peace" comes into effect) had been kept in.
http://forum.bioware...ntly-cut-quest/
some great lines in there too, particularly the ones calling out that the situation is definitively synthetic controlled organic slavery (just the same as you claim Control is), and postulating how long before the idiot quarians uploading toasters into their suits become this cycle's zha'til at the unknowable and completely unpredictable whims of the geth consensus. On the other side, you still have the quarians intentionally seperating their troops from the geth in order to avoid incidences of reprisal violence (Per Shala'Raan's description in an Email after the quarian surrender). It isn't at all hunky dory unless you inject the quarians and geth with some green Reaper magic, which I'd think you'll agree is tantamount to killing them anyway (as if whatever the geth were previously wasn't already "killed" by the new Reaper inspired Pinnochio architecture).
Ah thanks. Doesn´t talk about when the meddling happened, though, same in the after mission talk.
Indeed. However, we are absolutely certain that the zha'til siezed their creators bodies, molded them into a slave race and launched their genocidal war before the Reapers arrived in the Prothean cycle per Javik's narration post Dreadnought. Nothing is said about Reaper interferrence before that point, so any claims about that are essentially headcanon. It's a perfect example of the situation the Catalyst is talking about, just like the geth would have been given enough time (actually, not that much more, considering that without Shep and Co. stopping the Heretics, they succeed in gaining control of the consensus with their virus and spreading their "kill all meatbags" directive to all geth).
The entire reason the Quarians attacked the Geth is their networking system started to evolve beyond what they originally intended. Becoming a self aware synthetic being. Rather then just a bunch if VI's pooling their processing power to allow them to do more complicated tasks. Their evolution is quite evident during events of ME3. The Reaper signal only amounts to preventing the Quarian secret weapon from disrupting them anymore. The Geth Dreadnought which existed before the Reaper took over was beating the ever loving hell out of the Quarian Fleet. Even going to far as to throw what was it 3 frigates at it only to make a small hole on it. Strip out the Reapers and strip out magic space plot device for Quarians and all Shep would have had to do on Rannoch is report back the complete death of all Quarians.
And again the concept the Reapers agree with the AI is impossible? They must clearly be mindless slaves. The fact the Geth agree with what the Reapers want to do doesn't kind of hint at something. The only difference is the Geth want to achieve it on their own. Soldiers are controlled by their higher ups. If they were told to bomb that German town as it was producing war supplies. They jumped in their B 17's and saturation bombed the **** out of that town. Killing both their targets and innocent bystanders.
What an absurd example of geth fanboi wanking. The only reason the quarians were even having trouble with the Dreadnought was because the Reaper upgrades meant they couldn't use the Dreadnought scale weaponry on their Liveships (which were hidden on the other side of Tikkun) to shred it without putting said Liveships at risk of retaliation (and by extension the ability to feed their population). Considering the damage done in a single attack that only cost a half dozen of their 50,000 ships, they likely could have continued to throw frigates and cruisers at it and eventually destroyed it, but it would have been a pyrrhic victory, which they couldn't afford to keep doing without Xen's weapon and with only 17 million people vs effectively billions of geth platforms. The geth were estimated to have nearly 40 dreadnoughts. You want to tell me what was happening to them in the 2 1/2 weeks before the Reaper intervention, where the quarians manage to run the toasters out of 4 geth star systems? While you're at it, tell me what happens to those Dreadnoughts if you take away the Pinnochio code. Where's all the ass kicking they were doing without Reaper help? I can't find them anywhere in my war asset numbers (apart from the AI Relays Xen managed to salvage from one that we scrapped).
Also, you again apply meaningless terms to the geth to attempt to give them moral value like "self aware synthetic being". Several nonsapient animals are capable of self awareness. Hell, by your ridiculous logic that possesion of self awareness= equivalent moral worth the humans have already developed their "synthetic beings"
http://www.businessi...ntil-now-2015-7
Using sketchy Reaper code to become a real boy is hardly achieving anything on your own, yet that is the non negotiable objective that even Legion's geth are willing to have themselves destroyed over. My geth didn't want to achieve it on their own at all. They all concluded that the "Heretic" answer was the right one. Their "higher ups" told them to wipe out the meatbags, much as the Catalyst told its Reaper machine servants to turn them into slushie.
Until they faced extinction, only about 5% of the geth turned Heretic.
Who cares what the geth think of us in a thousand years, as long as they sty in their Dyson Sphere and spend their days calculating pi? We have nothing they want, they have nothing we want.
The Metacon War was fought against the zha'til, the "geth of my cycle" which were subverted by the Reapers. That whole war is invalid as far the the Reaper argument goes, since it was instigated by them to begin with.
Oh, well that perfectly validates the Reaper argument about the "inevitability" of war between organics and synthetics 
I'd like to have sources for all of these. If you destroy the Heretics, the geth War Asset number is pretty much cut in half, suggesting they were a far greater part of the consensus than "5%" unless non Heretic geth are absolutely terrible at fighting by comparison and therefore worth less, program for program.
What is the assurance that the geth do as much? Even if we assume Legion's word on geth motives is true (that's all it is, an assumption), what's to stop Heretic Virus V2.0 from having them reach a different conclusion regarding organcis? Why bother leaving them there unchecked to threaten all sentient and sapient life in the galaxy just so they can "calculate pi" in the first place with that threat hanging over you?
How is it invalid? The zha'til enslaved their creators and launched their war long before the Reapers showed up. Because the Protheans thought they were gaining the upper hand? Insofar as he considered both the first and 2nd world war as part of the same overarching conflict, I bet Hitler thought he had re-gained the upper hand as well until Stalingrad, the Italian Campaign and D-Day, when superior Allied productive capacity and sheer numbers began to show their effects and crushed him (those are conveniently the same two things synthetics are inherently better at than organics, mind you). Besides, even if the Protheans had "won" (much as the quarians can "win" if Reaper meddling is taken out of the equation) they'd just build more, superior synthetics that would finish the job.
It does.
No option is valid. The entire premise is organics and synthetics are incapable of coexisting:
Destroy: organics exterminate all synthetics
Control: organics are forever dominated by synthetics (the Reapers)
Synthesis: Everyone is forced to change who and what they are a the genetic and even molecular level to meet some arbitrary definition of "perfection" or face annihilation. Implications unpleasant....
Conflict happens. War happens. You can't just program everybody to play nice. Not without subverting free will.
I don't much disagree with your interpretations here (though we can and will make more synthetics to serve us), but subjective moral conundrums aside the first and last are valid "solutions" to the Catalyst's problem. Control still has the threat of the Shepard VI neural pathway facsimile becoming the new Catalyst at some point and restarting the same thing or something similar all over again.
No, but you can let every living sapient have a great measure of free will (victims of organic slavers of other organics aside) with Destroy. That there isn't a Nirvana solution (for you) where your precious Pinnochios aren't a threat isn't a reason to do nothing to maximize utility for as much of your target group as you can, given the option. Your other option is to enable mass suffering and organic extinctions at the hands of synthetic creations.
However, that doesn't make the Reaper "logic" behind the interim solution of turning advanced organics into slushie vs just letting their creations kill them and every species like them any less stupid.
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