2561 réponses à ce sujet

[Monica21]

For me, the strengths of the series make the failures of the ending that much more painful.

This is certainly understandable, and I might feel differently had I played through the trilogy when they were originally released, but I didn't even start until last summer. Everything's pretty much over and done with, and what I liked, I really really liked. Plus, I already knew what was coming so it's not like I had high expectations coming into ME3. To me it's kind of like having really good cake, but then someone comes along and scrapes the frosting off the top. But the cake is still really good.

[StarcloudSWG]

That the created will always rebel against their creators.

That conflict would always arise between synthetics and organics

That for synthetics to evolve they must by definition surpass their creators.

The result is conflict, destruction, and chaos. It is inevitable.

 

 

Yes, but that's not actually the Catalyst's argument.

 

The catalyst's arguement is *almost* identical, but it ends with 

"The result is conflict, destruction, chaos *and the complete annihilation of all organic life*."

 

Which is NOT proven in any way.

 

Consider that there were civilizations before the Catalyst existed, that created synthetic life and were overcome by it. And yet, SOMEHOW, organic life continued after the synthetics won. Could it be that the Catalyst is completely and utterly wrong about its ultimate conclusion? Why yes, yes it could very well be completely and utterly wrong, seeking after a solution to a problem that is theoretical.

[gothpunkboy89]

So much to reply to so nature only going to pick the meaty parts.

 

No, not at all. First off, Destroy doesn't only affect Reapers. It would make sense if it did though since they are machines and the Crucible could just target Reaper code. Actually, that would be an actual explanation of why it kills the Geth...

 

The mind upload is fine for science fiction, especially since we have examples of VIs with personality imprints. What doesn't make sense is how that is achieved by grabbing two electrodes and being vaporized. They should just have him go into a pod like when entering the Geth Consensus and have the body go limp.

 

 

All tech in the ME universe is based off Reaper Tech. Sovergin out right states that in ME1. Which means if it targets Reaper Tech it should wipe out all existing tech in the galaxy.  Mind upload is one thing but grabbing a live power cable = mind upload is silly.  Making about as much sense as a red wave that destories only very specific tech while ignoring literally all the rest that is based on it.

 

The Quarians were kicking the Geth's butt until the Reaper upgrades took effect. It didn't just block Xen's "flashbang" weapon, it also made the Geth smarter and better. Sure, a dreadnaught is still a powerful, dangerous ship, but the Quarians weren't having a problem until the Reaper signal was being broadcast.

 

 

 

The Quarians weren't having a problem because they literally blinded the Geth.  Fights are a lot easier when one side is blind folded and you are not. One of the reason why the Vietnam War was so bloody. They managed to blind all our fancy tech with low tech solutions. This lead to soldiers walking into ambushes and getting slaughtered.  The Viet Kong were literal 90 lbs weaklings that managed to stand up to the 200 lbs hulking US and wear it down to the point that even though they were on the verge of collapse we left first.

 

Cows and bananas aren't sapient. Also, the banana is the fruit, not the plant. There is no hypocrisy, just another bad analogy.

 

 Yes they are. Please do show how they aren't.  And not being able to make an I phone doesn't count. 

 

Banana is a different story but plants have shown to have a form of awareness. Though very different from what we would officially consider an awareness.

http://www.iflscienc...arnivorous-help

 

Plants are able to call for help when attacked by herbivores. Summoning predators to eat said attackers.  Or form symbiotic relation ships like the Acacia Tree and the ants. The tree provides house and food for the ants and in turn the ants protect the tree from other insects that might harm it. Or when one tree is ready to pollinate it will actually alter all the other similar trees in the area so they are all ready to pollinate at the same time. Other wise the pollen would be wasted.

 

They sure aren't building a new apple laptop but they are aware and able to act with a consciousness of sorts.

 

So? That's just the Citadel Fleet. One alliance fleet was able to steamroll those Geth.

 

That nearly destroyed the strongest ship organics ever created. The Alliance was only able to win because it was a surprise attack from the rear.  Why is it so common for forum users to ignore how effective these sort of attacks are in military ventures? Does no one know any sort of history? Or at least played an RTS war game at least once?

 

There is something to this, but what about the Krogan rebellions? That had nothing to do with misunderstanding. The Krogans wanted territory and decided to take it.

 

 

There is an argument in favor of misunderstanding. The Krogan felt they were entitled to it thanks to their hand in turning the Rachni War around. Completely ignoring their own effects on the worlds given to them. They misunderstood their own actions and thus tried to take more planets by force.

 

This is exactly why your posts are so frustrating to read.

 

Everything I say is backed by examples in game.  I don't claim  Control Shep will be and evil AI god king that will prevent species from evolving or is one second way from killing everyone for a slight mess up of a single person like others on here seem to have.

 

And what if the Batarians don't knock it off?

 

Does he kill the Krogans in that scenario?

 

 

That depends entirely on how they react to it. There are many paths that could be taken. The easiest path would be simply to land a few ships on the Batarian home world. Send more ships out to protect colonies that have been attacked. Kill the raiders and make it very clear that slavery between Batarians is acceptable because that is their culture.  Like wise with Krogan telling them to back down. Killing all the ones that refuse to and sparing the ones that do. Krogans hate to lose but they hate to lose to a foe they consider inferior even more. To them Turians, Asari and Salarians are weak and inferior to their strength. So their loss to them is particularly hard on them. Loss to the AI Shep is an entirely different story.  The war would end but they wouldn't feel so much like they were cheated out of their victory.

 

I have 3 questions for you how ever.

 

1. Why didn't the Alliance nor the  Council both which are against slavery. Particularly the slavery that Batarians practice never step in to prevent it from it's source? How would they go about stopping said slave raids on council colonies?

2. How would the galatic population respond to the Krogan's rebelling again after the Reapers were destroyed?

3. How would this actions differ so greatly from AI Shep's actions in your mind?

[themikefest]

Yes the thing says the chaos will return. No idea when. Even with Shepard surviving, she/he won't be around forever to see if the chaos returns. If the chaos returns in 500 years, maybe someone can bring Shepard back to life to tell her/him that the thing was right. I don't know. I don't care. I shoot the tube.

 

I do see chaos happening, but it would most likely be organics against organics.

[Monica21]

Yes they are. Please do show how they aren't.  And not being able to make an I phone doesn't count.

Sorry, Natureguy, I have to do this one thing.

"Sapient" does not equal "awareness." Humans are H omo Sapiens (or, h omo sapien sapien I believe), therefore "sapient" is defined as "of, or relating to, the human species."

Taking it a bit farther, "sapience" is defined as having wisdom or understanding. So, while I can pretend my banana is a phone, no, the banana cannot make an iPhone. And yet that still has nothing to do with it's so-called sapience. If you want to prove that bananas are intelligent or have awareness then you need a different word.

edit: Of course I'd have to edit the Latin word for human.

Modifié par Monica21, 16 février 2016 - 03:33 .

[gothpunkboy89]

Yes, but that's not actually the Catalyst's argument.

 

The catalyst's arguement is *almost* identical, but it ends with 

"The result is conflict, destruction, chaos *and the complete annihilation of all organic life*."

 

Which is NOT proven in any way.

 

Consider that there were civilizations before the Catalyst existed, that created synthetic life and were overcome by it. And yet, SOMEHOW, organic life continued after the synthetics won. Could it be that the Catalyst is completely and utterly wrong about its ultimate conclusion? Why yes, yes it could very well be completely and utterly wrong, seeking after a solution to a problem that is theoretical.

 

 

No if you actually read what he says is "No you can't. Without us to stop it synthetics would destroy all organic life."

 

Which was proven. The entire reason the AI was created because several species went extinct because of them. The AI then tried to solve the problem between them failing again and again and again. Before finally resorting to the alternative solution.

 

Your logic falls into the same cataogy of thinking the Geth represent all that ever is or all that ever will be when it comes to new synthetic life forms. Which is a lot like picking that racist redneck saying that represents all that ever is or all that ever will be of Americans.

[Dantriges]

That nearly destroyed the strongest ship organics ever created. The Alliance was only able to win because it was a surprise attack from the rear.  Why is it so common for forum users to ignore how effective these sort of attacks are in military ventures? Does no one know any sort of history? Or at least played an RTS war game at least once?

People here do understand the value of surprise attacks, they just don´t follow you to every harebrained conclusion you jump at. We had that debate. For me it looked like this:
Gothboy: Surprise attack, really awesome will result in-> x -> y ->z, irrefutable truth, tada.
Me: Hm yeah, it´s really good when you get the drop on your enemies, but I don´t think that would result in x without other factors, nor y or z.
Gb: X results in Y because of surprise attack.
Me: Why?
Gb: because of surprise attack you dumbie. A surprise attack will result in x, because there was some example in history where that happened.
Me: You ignore other factors like A,B,C?
Gb: Surprise attack, really awesome will result in-> x -> y ->z, irrefutable truth, tada.

Or in short, whenever you use surprise attack it sounds like a surprise attack results in x, because x is the result of a surprise attack.

[gothpunkboy89]

People here do understand the value of surprise attacks, they just don´t follow you to every harebrained conclusion you jump at. We had that debate. For me it looked like this:
Gothboy: Surprise attack, really awesome will result in-> x -> y ->z, irrefutable truth, tada.
Me: Hm yeah, it´s really good when you get the drop on your enemies, but I don´t think that would result in x without other factors, nor y or z.
Gb: X results in Y because of surprise attack.
Me: Why?
Gb: because of surprise attack you dumbie. A surprise attack will result in x, because there was some example in history where that happened.
Me: You ignore other factors like A,B,C?

Or in short, whenever you use surprise attack it sounds like a surprise attack results in x, because x is the result of a surprise attack.

Geth are fully enganged in a fight with the Citadel Fleet trading blows at knife fight range pushing the Fleet back more and more.

 

Alliance Fleet comes screaming though the Relay hitting the Geth Fleet hard and from behind. Taking out ships and dividing the Geth's attention. This gives the Citadel Fleet a chance to regroup and both Citadel and Alliance Fleet squeeze the Geth fleet between them.

 

So please point out how I am wrong in my assertion of the situation and the effect the Alliance had on the battle? Particularly when the save the day from the Alliance moment in the game shows the 5th Fleet hitting the Geth ships from behind destroying many of them.

 

So again show me were I am wrong here.

[media][/media]

 

4:03 moment when the Alliance rains hell fire on the Geth ships focusing on the Destiny Ascension.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

It´s not Ai are evil, so Shepalyst is evil, it´s a concern about this particular AI and its sheer power with no checks and balances. Our ancestors fought and died for the principles and privileges we now take for granted, in some parts of the world, people still die for them. Sorry but I feel uncomfortable for handing them over to some dude in a computer, even when it has the memories of Shepard and dunno what else. Yeah might be that the many have a voice, as long as the Shep allows them to have one.

 

Did you upload the Reaper code to the geth? That gave them the power to destroy a species. Note that they did not use it for anything less, either. You do not need to wipe out an army to win a war, just gain the strategic advantage such that the other party has no gain left in further conflict. Geth went well beyond the military necessity. How many more species could they gain the resources to wipe out if they continue building more platforms? Or, if they build their own pseudo-Reaper as they have stated the desire to?

 

Or did you cure the genophage? If so, you (and 92% of all game players) supported a dictator, helping his species multiply at a rate faster than the rest of the galaxy.

 

By the way, we have had several autocrats in human history who have been great leaders. The overused "power corrupts" cliche falls short of the reality.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

The catalyst is also a synthetic. According to its own logic, its not wiping organics out, it´s ascending them and it never wiped out all organics. Yeah ok, the Catalyst is to other AIs, as humans are to animals, but there was never an exception in its statement about how synthetics will always wipe out all organics. 

 

So, hm well, it´s a counterexample to its own thesis.

 

It also said that it had found a way to stop that from happening, so the statement need not apply to him.

 

Try again.

[Dantriges]

@Gothboy. Wasn´t my point. i answered your question why people don´t get that surprise attacks are awesome and I don´t care one bit about your specific example .

 

@Seival:

Geth: Huh, what? I don´t want to install my ingame avatar as a dictator, that´s not the same as "I hand potential allies who get wiped out otherwise something so they don´t get wiped out." The geth don´t play in the same league as the Shepalyst. But if you wanna know, I did both, gave them the code and let them all get turned into scrap metal in different games.

 

Krogans: I am already on my way to save the galaxy from the Reapers, thanks. Let the council bomb or sterilize the krogans before they become a problem again, if they think it´s a good idea. IMO the krogan problem isn´t one, they don´t have ships, they barely have anything qualifying as functioning infrastructure..

 

I am aware of that. I said a lot when I talked about autocrats in history because well we had  a ton of these and the majority were probably pretty mediocre. But ok,  many autocratic rulers were absolute in power in title only. An autocratic ruler is a lot like playing lottery. You can get a good one, average dude or some nutjob, and even the good one can be bad for certain parts of the population or the neighbors. You don´t get the suffix "the Great" for playing nice. Anyways the model doesn´t work so good anymore in our current world.

 

 

 

It also said that it had found a way to stop that from happening, so the statement need not apply to him.
 
Try again.

 

Didn´t it mean the harvest?

[Natureguy85]

And look how Organic's choose to respond to the Krogan Rebellion. Genophage did not kill off all Krogan. It altered their birth rate.  The effect that hurt the Krogan more then the Genophage and what really messed them up was their reaction to it.  They gave up on their future and stopped caring about it. That effect did more harm then the Genophage truly did.  Had they not given up and broken up into small warring clans they would have been left with a very stabilized and even growing population more then capable of continuing the Krogan existence into the future.  

 

According to Wrex, this is just the Krogan acting in accordance with their nature. Sort of like the Catalyst comparing Reapers to fire, now that I think about it...

However, none of this has anything to do with the Catalyst or Reapers. The point is that Organics fight and kill each other plenty. Synthetics are not special in that regard.

 

 

 

What was the Quarian's intent and ultimate end game regarding the Geth? In game it seems to give either A)total and complete destruction or give them an AI equivleent of a lobotomy turning them back into mindless VI programs.

 

That the created will always rebel against their creators.

That conflict would always arise between synthetics and organics

That for synthetics to evolve they must by definition surpass their creators.

The result is conflict, destruction, and chaos. It is inevitable.

 

The Geth conflict for fills ever single one of those criteria.

 

So? The "problem" is synthetics destroying Organics, not the other way around.

 

Those four statements are not the end. The rest is that the Synthetics will wipe out all life, which is not true of the Geth. It's also noteworthy that, at least as far as the war goes, the Quarians eventually surpassed the Geth right back.

 

 

 

The Council stripped the Krogan of their say in galactic politics, disarmed them and created a DMZ around their planet even altered their birth rate.  The Turians even planted a massive contingency bomb just encase they acted up again. But at no point was complete annihilation of Krogan done. Nor were they ever altered into mindless slaves to server the Council races.

 

The Krogan are on their way out according to Wrex. Since you're so stuck on the Krogan, what about the Rachnii? They were all but eliminated. All those that were found were.

 

 

 

No my example is on point. How many species have evolved since the first harvest? How many would have never evolved without the Reaper intervention?  1 billion years ago another species colonized Earth it would alter the very development of every animal and plant on it. Because of them the human race would never be created. Thus the billions and billions of humans that normally would have been born will now not exist.  Is that not equally genocidal? Altering the evolutionary path of an entire planet thus preventing what normally would happen from happening? How is that justifiable?

 

Argument after the fact aside, why are those species that came later more valuable than those that were harvested? What's special about humanity in the galactic sense? As to altering the evolutionary path, I never said it was justifiable. There's an argument to be made against it and there are people with that opinion in Mass Effect!

 

 

 

Your statement is again build on 2 grand assumptions. 1 that the Geth will now and for ever be the only synthetic race in the entire galaxy. 2 that they represent all that is and all that will ever be with synthetic life forms. Which is a lot like saying China represents all that is and all that will ever be of Humanity.  The Geth started to surpass their creators. The Geth rebelled against their creators then they started shutting them down and wiping out programs. The result was conflict, chaos and destruction and the near total genocide of the Quarian race.  Which 300 years later the Quarians almost ensured or did ensure their complete destruction depending on game play choices.

 

No that's not true. The statement is pointing to the only evidence we currently have to look at. I'm not willing to wipe out the advanced races because something bad might happen at some indeterminate time down the line.

 

If the Quarians are wiped out in ME3, it's due to Reaper (and Shepard's) influence. Left to their own, the Quarians would defeat the Geth.

 

 

 

They took the Reaper upgrade only when they felt their very existence was on the line. It is easy for you to sit in your chair and declare their actions stupid. It is another to have a gun against your head knowing you will die. Then being offered a chance to live.  What is better death or a life of servitude? Death is easy. Life is hard and as long as you are a live you have a chance. Once you are dead you lose all changes.  Let us also not forget that Sovereign didn't display that level of control with the Heretics. Lied to them and guile them into becoming it's own private army yes. But didn't display even a fraction of the dominate control the Reapers did to the Geth on Rannoch.the most reward for your dollar. So to speak.

 

Actually Legion declares it stupid. He says that the Geth became dumb and panicked when the Quarians blew up their superstructure with a lot of programs on it.

 

However, I wasn't talking about them taking the upgrades to fight the Quarians. I'm talking about Legion wanting to keep the upgrades minus the control because it improved the Geth and advanced them to being individuals or whatever.

 

 

 

It is logical. Every choice control, destroy, synthesis and refuse are all logical. They are all equally valid options.  I personally find synthesis makes the most sense because if give you the most reward for your dollar. So to speak.

 

Yeah Synthesis is definitely written as the "good" ending. I hate it because it most violates the themes of the series.

 

Control wasn't set up properly. Shepard just told TIM Humanity wasn't ready for it.

 

 

 

 

All tech in the ME universe is based off Reaper Tech. Sovergin out right states that in ME1. Which means if it targets Reaper Tech it should wipe out all existing tech in the galaxy.  Mind upload is one thing but grabbing a live power cable = mind upload is silly.  Making about as much sense as a red wave that destories only very specific tech while ignoring literally all the rest that is based on it.

 

True but there is a difference between the Reapers themselves and the various things they have left around. We saw in the Geth Consensus that Reaper code can be isolated.

 

The Destroy option doesn't ignore all the rest of the technology. Synthetics will also be destroyed, so I guess it fries synthetic intelligence somehow. I think in at least low EMS the Catalyst also says something about technology being wiped out.

 

However, while I think the game should have brought it up, you do give a good reason for why the Destroy option doesn't affect Reapers and only Reapers.

[Natureguy85]

The Quarians weren't having a problem because they literally blinded the Geth.  Fights are a lot easier when one side is blind folded and you are not. One of the reason why the Vietnam War was so bloody. They managed to blind all our fancy tech with low tech solutions. This lead to soldiers walking into ambushes and getting slaughtered.  The Viet Kong were literal 90 lbs weaklings that managed to stand up to the 200 lbs hulking US and wear it down to the point that even though they were on the verge of collapse we left first.

 

They didn't literally blind the Geth. Their optics still worked. (I hate the ruining of the word 'literally'.)

Anyway, exactly. The Quarians figured out a way to exploit or create a weakness in their enemy and defeat them.

 

The North Vietnamese took advantage of the terrain and the US handicap of following rules of war. It was smart. A better analogy would be the Korean War. The US backed North Korea all the way to China when China sent in a huge army. Without that outside interference, the US would have won outright.
 

 

 

 Yes they are. Please do show how they aren't.  And not being able to make an I phone doesn't count. 

 

Banana is a different story but plants have shown to have a form of awareness. Though very different from what we would officially consider an awareness.

http://www.iflscienc...arnivorous-help

 

Plants are able to call for help when attacked by herbivores. Summoning predators to eat said attackers.  Or form symbiotic relation ships like the Acacia Tree and the ants. The tree provides house and food for the ants and in turn the ants protect the tree from other insects that might harm it. Or when one tree is ready to pollinate it will actually alter all the other similar trees in the area so they are all ready to pollinate at the same time. Other wise the pollen would be wasted.

 

They sure aren't building a new apple laptop but they are aware and able to act with a consciousness of sorts.

 

Sure, can do. You're thinking of sentience. I am using wikipedia because, oddly enough, the dictionary gives an extremely short and unhelpful answer.

 

 

 

That nearly destroyed the strongest ship organics ever created. The Alliance was only able to win because it was a surprise attack from the rear.  Why is it so common for forum users to ignore how effective these sort of attacks are in military ventures? Does no one know any sort of history? Or at least played an RTS war game at least once?

 

That certainly helped, but you have no basis for saying that it was the only reason. Also two points.

 

1) That's the "save the Destiny Ascension" version. Yet the Geth still lose if the Alliance fleet ignores the Geth and goes straight for Sovereign.

 

2) If you played an RTS, you'd know that even the most powerful unit in the game can be killed if targeted by the entire enemy force.

 

3) Again, that was one alliance fleet. There are more alliance fleets and more fleets from the other races.

 

 

 

There is an argument in favor of misunderstanding. The Krogan felt they were entitled to it thanks to their hand in turning the Rachni War around. Completely ignoring their own effects on the worlds given to them. They misunderstood their own actions and thus tried to take more planets by force.

 

No. They wanted those worlds and saw that they could take them by force, so they did.

 

 

Everything I say is backed by examples in game.  I don't claim  Control Shep will be and evil AI god king that will prevent species from evolving or is one second way from killing everyone for a slight mess up of a single person like others on here seem to have.

 

 

Only your incorrect interpretation of events. Those claims are based on the real world concerns based on what Shepard says.

 

 

That depends entirely on how they react to it. There are many paths that could be taken. The easiest path would be simply to land a few ships on the Batarian home world. Send more ships out to protect colonies that have been attacked. Kill the raiders and make it very clear that slavery between Batarians is acceptable because that is their culture.  Like wise with Krogan telling them to back down. Killing all the ones that refuse to and sparing the ones that do. Krogans hate to lose but they hate to lose to a foe they consider inferior even more. To them Turians, Asari and Salarians are weak and inferior to their strength. So their loss to them is particularly hard on them. Loss to the AI Shep is an entirely different story.  The war would end but they wouldn't feel so much like they were cheated out of their victory.

 

I have 3 questions for you how ever.

 

1. Why didn't the Alliance nor the  Council both which are against slavery. Particularly the slavery that Batarians practice never step in to prevent it from it's source? How would they go about stopping said slave raids on council colonies?

2. How would the galatic population respond to the Krogan's rebelling again after the Reapers were destroyed?

3. How would this actions differ so greatly from AI Shep's actions in your mind?

 

Land ships to do what? Kill the raiders? This is what Monica was talking about. Why kill them and not just block them from getting the slaves or some other option? Ditto for the Krogan.

 

Why is slavery ok internally? Do Batarian slaves want to be slaves any more than any other species?

 

 

I don't know why you're asking me these questions but I will answer.

 

 

1) This is a good question. Both groups are pretty slow to act on anything. As for the Alliance, I'm guessing they didn't want to be in an all out war, and the Council would likely have frowned on it.

 

2) They would write them a sternly worded letter, of course. Or they'd do exactly what they did last time, up to and including Genophage 2.0.

 

3) They might not, but that is not the primary focus. The question is if one person/entity should have all the power and authority with absolutely no check or balance against it.

 

 

 

 

No if you actually read what he says is "No you can't. Without us to stop it synthetics would destroy all organic life."

 

Which was proven. The entire reason the AI was created because several species went extinct because of them. The AI then tried to solve the problem between them failing again and again and again. Before finally resorting to the alternative solution.

 

Your logic falls into the same cataogy of thinking the Geth represent all that ever is or all that ever will be when it comes to new synthetic life forms. Which is a lot like picking that racist redneck saying that represents all that ever is or all that ever will be of Americans.

 

That is the Catalyst's claim, but it is not demonstrated in the story. Also, as you just said "several species went extinct," but not all. So the Catalyst extrapolated it's data.

[Natureguy85]

Did you upload the Reaper code to the geth? That gave them the power to destroy a species. Note that they did not use it for anything less, either. You do not need to wipe out an army to win a war, just gain the strategic advantage such that the other party has no gain left in further conflict. Geth went well beyond the military necessity. How many more species could they gain the resources to wipe out if they continue building more platforms? Or, if they build their own pseudo-Reaper as they have stated the desire to?

 

Or did you cure the genophage? If so, you (and 92% of all game players) supported a dictator, helping his species multiply at a rate faster than the rest of the galaxy.

 

By the way, we have had several autocrats in human history who have been great leaders. The overused "power corrupts" cliche falls short of the reality.

 

The Geth did that to give a game cost to the action. While you're technically right that they could have destroyed half the fleet and let the other half flee again, it was for the sake of drama.

 

For the Krogan, it's implied that things will be good under Wrex. After that though, who knows and it's a valid concern. Curing is still set up to be the "good" option, and people like Wrex, so that's why it gets chosen so much.

 

While there may have been good or ok autocrats, history, particularly recent history shows it to be highly problematic and the phrase mostly holds.

 

 

It also said that it had found a way to stop that from happening, so the statement need not apply to him.

 

Try again.

 

Yeah, that way is the Reapers. The Catalyst did wipe out its creators, minus the few that escaped. No, being made into a Reaper doesn't count because it has no value.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

@Seival:

 
I am not Seival. Seival is my lord and savior.
 

Geth: Huh, what? I don´t want to install my ingame avatar as a dictator, that´s not the same as "I hand potential allies who get wiped out otherwise something so they don´t get wiped out."

 
So, the power to destroy civilizations is a no-go for any one individual on principle, but if a species of like-minded individuals request it? Okay, no problem d00dz!

 

"So they don't get wiped out" -? The geth could have fought the quarians to a surrender if that were it. They chose genocide. Think about that. And don't tell me "the quarians would have done the same!" 100% of the geth population (in platforms, not programs) were hostile and combatants, excepting only for one (Legion), neither of which are true of the quarians. The quarians had to wipe out the geth to survive the war, the geth did not have to.
 

The geth don´t play in the same league as the Shepalyst.

 
You're right. The Reapers need to keep species alive to process them. The geth can just kill-kill-kill as they please. They are both severely dangerous in different ways: Reapers like an apex-predator, geth like a virus. Before the Reaper-code upgrade was given to them, the geth killed billions (yes, plural of billion) in the Morning War.
 
To put that into perspective, the daily death-toll in the Reaper war was a few million per day; it would've been months before the Reapers could claim as many kills in our cycle as the geth already had. They might not have even achieved it!
 
Also, the geth are under no restriction to accumulate more platforms or improve whatever the Reaper-code gave them.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

For the Krogan, it's implied that things will be good under Wrex. After that though, who knows and it's a valid concern. Curing is still set up to be the "good" option, and people like Wrex, so that's why it gets chosen so much.

So you admit that a dictatorship can achieve desirable overall ends, then (which, in Wrex's case, involves subverting the will of the people rather than catering to it). Good.
 

While there may have been good or ok autocrats, history, particularly recent history shows it to be highly problematic and the phrase mostly holds.

 

Were there "mostly" truth to that, interventionism in the Middle East would be working out great.
 

Yeah, that way is the Reapers. The Catalyst did wipe out its creators, minus the few that escaped. No, being made into a Reaper doesn't count because it has no value.

I was responding to the claim that they would wipe out all organic life.

re: your sig -- drayfish is a complete jerk-off.

[Dantriges]

So, the power to destroy civilizations is a no-go for any one individual on principle, but if a species of like-minded individuals request it? Okay, no problem d00dz!

"So they don't get wiped out" -? The geth could have fought the quarians to a surrender if that were it. They chose genocide. Think about that. And don't tell me "the quarians would have done the same!" 100% of the geth population (in platforms, not programs) were hostile and combatants, excepting only for one (Legion), neither of which are true of the quarians. The quarians had to wipe out the geth to survive the war, the geth did not have to.

They had to wipe out the geth to survive, heh? Did the peace for both option got cut out recently? 
Ok, I don´t continue the debate about the quarians, geth and who has to genocide whom etc.
I just delivered an explanation why I am uncomfortable with control. It´s ok for me that you disagree, it´s not like Shep openly says "I will suppress the unwashed masses."
So well I am uncomfortable with installing Shepard as the ultimate carebear of the galaxy and I am uncomfortable with preventive genocide aka they could be a problem so I kill them just in case they get weird ideas. It´s really odd, seems no one in this galaxy goes for less than total or near annihilation.
So the geth, krogan or rachni going rampant in this galaxy is their decision. Wiping them out just because it could be that they don´t play nice is on me, grabbing the reins of control because I think I know best is on me, too.
So well, thanks but I don´t have to solve every possible problem which could arise in the future, they others can take responsibility, too and stop to shoot first, talk later.

You can disagree if you want, I am fine with it. Can we leave it at agree to disagree?

Oh my, even the salarians with their irresponsible research are a threat. If they switch their female to male ratio they can probably outbreed the krogans andbe a bigger threat. They grow up fast, have several established worlds and existing infrastructure and are generally better at teching than the krogans with their one shattered homeworld and quarreling clans.

[gothpunkboy89]

@Gothboy. Wasn´t my point. i answered your question why people don´t get that surprise attacks are awesome and I don´t care one bit about your specific example .

 

 Of course you don't. Because it would mean you would be forced to admit I am correct. The surprise attack from the rear was the turning point of the fight. The Council knew that Saren was going to attack. They posted ships at every relay that lead directly to the Citadel. The Geth fleet reached the Citadel and attack the awaking Citadel Fleet. Sovergin didn't even participate in the fight so we could scratch off the obvious Reaper advantage. The ships it destroyed were incidental that had the unfortunate fact of being in it's way as it barreled into to the closing Citadel.

 

Someone earlier quoted that the Heratics that were a part of the Citadel attack represented only 5% of all Geth programs. So that 5% were able to assault one of the largest stronghold of Organic life in the galaxy. That was ready and prepared for an attack mind you.  Sovereign locks the Relays around the Citadel leaving Citadel reinforcements unable to come to help. With that set up the Geth Fleet slowly pushes back the Citadel fleet damaging and nearly or completely depending on your choice destroying the largest and most powerful warship ever created by non Reaper or Geth hands.

 

Shepard then unlocks the Relay to the Arcturus Fleet because that was the only known friendly fleet ready. They appear though the relay behind the Geth fleet completely unexpected. Sovergin didn't know about Shep's ability to disable citadel control from him so the Geth certainly wouldn't.  Their first salvo would hit the geth completely from behind. This would then pin the Geth fleet in a cross fire. Forced to defend from each direction causing some Geth ships to break off the attack on the already breaking Citadel Fleet to engage the newly arrived Human Fleet.  This gave the Citadel Fleet a chance to regroup and fight back now they they were taking less fire from the Geth. Between the two forces they are able to wipe out the attacking Geth fleet. How ever the Citadel Fleet is broken and almost non existent anymore after baring the full brunt of the Geth attack.  This leads to only the 5th Fleet engaging Sovereign attempting to kill him with everything they have.

 

The full extend of the damage done to the Citadel Fleet is fully explained in ME2 when it is mentioned that after the attack it was as Human Fleet guarding it for months while they rebuild the Citadel Fleet.

 

So when I make the statement that suprise attacks are extremely useful it isn't a lie. When I use it specifically in reference to an event in game that you can actually watch happen. It isn't a lie. When people try to counter what I claim even though my claim is backed up by video evidence because it would go against what they want to have happened rather then what really happened. Well I'm sure you can figure that out.

[Iakus]

 

Shepard then unlocks the Relay to the Arcturus Fleet because that was the only known friendly fleet ready. They appear though the relay behind the Geth fleet completely unexpected. Sovergin didn't know about Shep's ability to disable citadel control from him so the Geth certainly wouldn't.  Their first salvo would hit the geth completely from behind. This would then pin the Geth fleet in a cross fire. Forced to defend from each direction causing some Geth ships to break off the attack on the already breaking Citadel Fleet to engage the newly arrived Human Fleet.  This gave the Citadel Fleet a chance to regroup and fight back now they they were taking less fire from the Geth. Between the two forces they are able to wipe out the attacking Geth fleet. How ever the Citadel Fleet is broken and almost non existent anymore after baring the full brunt of the Geth attack.  This leads to only the 5th Fleet engaging Sovereign attempting to kill him with everything they have.

 

So because organics used clever tactics and misdirection to defeat a stronger foe, it somehow "doesn't count" ?

[gothpunkboy89]

According to Wrex, this is just the Krogan acting in accordance with their nature. Sort of like the Catalyst comparing Reapers to fire, now that I think about it...

However, none of this has anything to do with the Catalyst or Reapers. The point is that Organics fight and kill each other plenty. Synthetics are not special in that regard.

Didn't see any dialogue that stated that their emotional responds to the Genophage was them acting like normal.  Just that seeing all the dead babies that they were not accustom to compared to what it was like Pre Nuclear Winter on Tuchunka made them lose hope in their future.  But is is an great over all example. Krogans killed more being then Geth ever did. For their actions they were punished true enough. But the Geth were the only ones that would be completely wiped out or lobotomized into mindless servants. Pretty clear difference in how the Galaxy handled an Organic species running amok and a synthetic species running amok.
 

 

So? The "problem" is synthetics destroying Organics, not the other way around.

 

Those four statements are not the end. The rest is that the Synthetics will wipe out all life, which is not true of the Geth. It's also noteworthy that, at least as far as the war goes, the Quarians eventually surpassed the Geth right back.

 

 

Yes eventually. You and others seem to take the short term view to defend long term effects. But lets follow this logic. Geth are destroyed. Synthetics are no longer a threat. Are you now claiming with 100% certainty that no one in the entire Milky Way Galaxy will ever continue to advance technology or never from now until the universe dies? That there is no way another synthetic race could develop? That if they did in fact develop they could only possibility act exactly like the Geth do. No matter how many or how often they are created they will always be personality wise for lack of better term simply be Geth 2.0, Geth 3.0 and so on?

 

Quarians did not surpass the Geth. They exploited a flaw in their radar system. This rendered all their ships blind. Unable to see the Quarians Ships attacking they couldn't properly defend themselves.  Had they had windows on their ships this would be a problem. But they don't use windows.

 

Since you're so stuck on the Krogan, what about the Rachnii? They were all but eliminated. All those that were found were.

 

Rachni were exterminated because there was no way to subdue them. Cause you know they were kind of driven mad. Now would Geth need to be completely wiped out to get them to stop fighting is debatable. But if given the option to be banished to some dark unused portion of the galaxy. Told they can't have any weapons and would be under complete guard of the Council Fleets. I'm fairly certain they would accept that.

 

Argument after the fact aside, why are those species that came later more valuable than those that were harvested? What's special about humanity in the galactic sense? As to altering the evolutionary path, I never said it was justifiable. There's an argument to be made against it and there are people with that opinion in Mass Effect!

 

They are all equally valuable.  Lose one species but gain another.  If all are treated as equals then it is a 0 sum gain. As in back to square 1 each time. Reapers remove 6 advanced species from the galaxy. Then 6 species develop in their place.  Those species that would have never evolved because of interference from previous species is what makes up for the loss of all the unborn.  It doesn't have to be justifiable. Evolution is a very fickle thing the simple introduction of an advance species to a planet would be enough to alter it. Even if they didn't attempt direct interference like the Protheans with the Asari. And what the Slarians were doing. Well everyone must hate the Salarian's guts huh?

 

No that's not true. The statement is pointing to the only evidence we currently have to look at. I'm not willing to wipe out the advanced races because something bad might happen at some indeterminate time down the line.

 

If the Quarians are wiped out in ME3, it's due to Reaper (and Shepard's) influence. Left to their own, the Quarians would defeat the Geth.

 

Yes short term is the key here. Arguing with the AI and how it's logic is flawed is a lot like a 5 year old telling a 40 year rocket scientist that he is wrong about there not being any air in space because Jimmy Neutron could breath in space. Remember the AI didn't create the Reapers as soon as it woke up. It's entire purpose was to protect organic life at all cost by the catalyst between the two. An act it attempted to fore fill and bring peace between them time and time again. And time and time again it failed. It learned the trend that developed and took steps to ensure it protected organic life from it's self. The Reapers and the Cycle. Watched and learned as each new cycle created a repeating pattern of life and development. Only finally changing it's mind about it's choice when the current game cycle alters the variables and opens up new paths to be followed.

 

Or lets put this another way. The AI is a scientist who has been conducting thousands of experiments that proof his hypothesis true. You do the experiment once get you a result that says it's hypothesis is incorrect. You then completely disregard the thousands of tests and declare all the thousands of experiments he did as false. Because your 1 test contradicted the thousands of tests he did. Ignoring that in any experiment there are always variables that can result in false positives and false negatives. Hence why hospitals will due multiple tests to ensure their result isn't a false positive or negative.

 

In any legitimate scientific community your claim that 1 test negates the thousands of tests the other scientist did would get you laugh at by everyone.

 

There is an argument to be had that given the time the Geth could have closed the exploit in their radar system. But you are right without interference from Reapers or Shep in this instance the Quarians would have been just as guilty of Genocide or War crimes as the Geth would have been if they killed everyone during Morning War.
 

Actually Legion declares it stupid. He says that the Geth became dumb and panicked when the Quarians blew up their superstructure with a lot of programs on it.

 

However, I wasn't talking about them taking the upgrades to fight the Quarians. I'm talking about Legion wanting to keep the upgrades minus the control because it improved the Geth and advanced them to being individuals or whatever.

 

How does that contradict what I said? They felt their very existence was on the line and took the offer presented to them. Not realizing the amount of control they would enforce on the Geth. Well beyond what Sovereign did to the Heretics. On this specific topic upgrades and the effect on the Geth are irrelevant. People complain about their reasoning for going with the Reapers. When it is very sound logic for a group that is being slowly wiped out by another to take any life line given to them. Coming to regret it only after the fact. Hindsight is 20/20.

 

Yeah Synthesis is definitely written as the "good" ending. I hate it because it most violates the themes of the series.

 

Control wasn't set up properly. Shepard just told TIM Humanity wasn't ready for it.

It doesn't violate any of the themes of the series. Tell me what themes would it violate? As for control the Reapers being controlled by a single man yes. But control Shep ascends beyond a mere man when he integrates with the Reaper consciousness.

 

True but there is a difference between the Reapers themselves and the various things they have left around. We saw in the Geth Consensus that Reaper code can be isolated.

 

The Destroy option doesn't ignore all the rest of the technology. Synthetics will also be destroyed, so I guess it fries synthetic intelligence somehow. I think in at least low EMS the Catalyst also says something about technology being wiped out.

 

However, while I think the game should have brought it up, you do give a good reason for why the Destroy option doesn't affect Reapers and only Reapers.

 

Any code can be isolated it is how programming works. You can create your own programming code from scratch if you wanted to. We humans have used different codes for programming.  C which then evolved into C++. If you have something that effects C++ (Reapers) then it will also effect the older version C (all non direct Reaper tech). The fact is also effects synthetics would mean every star ship, hospital, power planet you name it should also be effected. Which means it would be the most destructive option as billions would be killed indirectly from it. From the millions in ships to millions reliant on hospitals to be kept alive. To millions killed when fusion plants are unable to contain the chain reaction.

 

So if you ever question the ending of the others remember that destroy purposefully glosses and willfully ignores the fact that destroying the Reapers would cause billions of deaths in return. Not just the happy kill only Reapers and maybe sadly EDI and the Geth die to.

[Dantriges]

Of course you don't. Because it would mean you would be forced to admit I am correct.

No, because this particular thing doesn´t interest me to open another tangent of debate. You know why? I said that I answered a specific question you had. Your response was to give me a recap of the complete battle, to make a point in a debate I explicitly stated that I don´t care.

I was talking about your debating style and that people agree with the general idea that surprise attacks are a good thing. You replied with two battle recaps, a video and
 

So when I make the statement that suprise attacks are extremely useful it isn't a lie. When I use it specifically in reference to an event in game that you can actually watch happen. It isn't a lie.

Dude, yeah sure, that´s nice, I didn´t try to say that you are lying, the thing is that you are talking at me, not with me and you did it again, when I told you. Perhaps I wasn´t really clear about that.

 

In any legitimate scientific community your claim that 1 test negates the thousands of tests the other scientist did would get you laugh at by everyone.

The scientific method demands peer review and showing how you came to your results, your data, with sources, quotations if you draw from somewhere else etc.
The Catalyst doesn´t do anything of that. Yeah it´s a game and I don´t expect a scientific paper about its research but the catalyst just makes some statements with nothing to back it up. So if the Geth are an anomaly or just on the path to "kill all meatbags," yeah ok, but the Catalyst has pretty much nothing to back its claim, that its right.

Ok, hard to do the scientific method in a video game.How about this: As far as we know, the writers intended the Catalyst to be right and the AI are out to kill us all. In the same game the only killer robots we met and fought during the whole trilogy where written to be sympathetic and being on our side. That´s sending quite a few mixed signals.

[gothpunkboy89]

They didn't literally blind the Geth. Their optics still worked. (I hate the ruining of the word 'literally'.)

Anyway, exactly. The Quarians figured out a way to exploit or create a weakness in their enemy and defeat them.

 

The North Vietnamese took advantage of the terrain and the US handicap of following rules of war. It was smart. A better analogy would be the Korean War. The US backed North Korea all the way to China when China sent in a huge army. Without that outside interference, the US would have won outright.

Space battles buddy. Geth don't use windows remember? They relay on a very sophisticated radar system to see. The Quarians released an optical flash bang on that radar rendering their ships blind.

 

No it isn't because the Quarians were out tech but found an exploit and used it. There are many cases in Vietnam War of the Kong finding the weakness in the US ground radars and such and exploiting it. Causing them to bomb areas with no one in it while surprising US in another area.

 

 

Sure, can do. You're thinking of sentience. I am using wikipedia because, oddly enough, the dictionary gives an extremely short and unhelpful answer.

 

Sentience and Sapient are two different things.

 

Sapience is often defined as wisdom, or the ability of an organism or entity to act with appropriate judgement, a mental faculty which is a component of intelligence or alternatively may be considered an additional faculty, apart from intelligence, with its own properties. Robert Sternberg^[23] has segregated the capacity for judgement from the general qualifiers for intelligence, which is closer to cognizant aptitude than to wisdom. Displaying sound judgement in a complex, dynamic environment is a hallmark of wisdom.

 

https://en.wikipedia...Wisdom#Sapience

 

Cows, pigs, deer, squirrels, dogs, cats, horses, goats etc fall under that category. Just the same as people.  And I already showed you how plants act with an awareness of sorts.

 

That certainly helped, but you have no basis for saying that it was the only reason. Also two points.

 

1) That's the "save the Destiny Ascension" version. Yet the Geth still lose if the Alliance fleet ignores the Geth and goes straight for Sovereign.

 

2) If you played an RTS, you'd know that even the most powerful unit in the game can be killed if targeted by the entire enemy force.

 

3) Again, that was one alliance fleet. There are more alliance fleets and more fleets from the other races.

 

 

 

1) Once Sovergin is killed they are able to open all relays which would mean while the Citadel Fleet is still being wiped out on it's own they are able to call in more reinforcements and end them. Remember the only reason the 5th Fleet is even ready is because Joker knew Saren found a back door. Admiral Hackett believed Shep. When Joker showed up telling them what happened he was ready to go. Shep only opens one relay opening because that is the only one he knows is maned by friendly forces.

 

2) Yes it can but it wasn't the complete and only target. If that many ships were targeting it then it should have left the rest of the fleet the ability to fight back against them as it tanked them. This is also a strategy in RTS games. The most powerful unit acts as an aggro unit drawing all other units into attacking it. While it is taking a beating you can use lesser units to destroy the attacking ones. If not our right destroying them then weakening their forces till they are no longer a threat.

 

3) And that was only 5% of the Geth. And 1 Reaper who really didn't do much in he space fight.

 

No. They wanted those worlds and saw that they could take them by force, so they did.

And the fact they polluted and killed the other planets of their ability to sustain life. The fact they completely ignored their own actions and was the reason why the Council didn't want to give them any more planets to colonize isn't a big factor? How about the fact Wrex later shows he learned from the Krogan's past and vows not make the same mistakes? No way them not realizing the results of their own actions had a negative effect could possibly be why they started a war for more territory they felt they were owed.

 

Only your incorrect interpretation of events. Those claims are based on the real world concerns based on what Shepard says.

What an odd thing that a game created by people existing now might draw parallels between that game and our world.

 

Land ships to do what? Kill the raiders? This is what Monica was talking about. Why kill them and not just block them from getting the slaves or some other option? Ditto for the Krogan.

 

Why is slavery ok internally? Do Batarian slaves want to be slaves any more than any other species?

 

 

Simple threat of force no need for violence but show what is waiting if they don't change their mind. Kill the raiders because by human/council law which by entering their space they are now bound by. Just like if you are in from UK but you enter Fance's territorial waters you are now bound to the laws of France. By both council and human law the destruction of the raiders is a legally allowable thing.

 

Monica was continually claiming that Control Shep can't enforce one species or other species ideas on another. So internal slavery is ok with Batarians because that is how their society developed.  They have a very strict chaste system that includes slavery.  By her reasoning and her logic the galaxy at large can not force the batarains to abandon slavery because it is enforcing a different ideology on them then their own. So internal slavery would be find because it is just Batarians.

 

How ever when the Batarians try to involve non Batarians that is when said group goes beyond their own personal society and involves others who are not a part of it against their will. At that point Control Shep is will within it's rights as would any other species in the galaxy to step in and stop said abduction of slaves. And threaten by force of war if they don't stop it.

 

The same goes for Krogan. Within their society how they act and their laws they follow are fine among themselves. When dealing with other species how ever they are not under only their own rules and laws of society. When on the Citadel they are under Council Law. When in Turian Space they are under Turian Law. If they try to invade in an attempt to enact revenge for past deeds then it is within the right for Control Shep or the rest of the Galaxy to step in and put the Krogan down again. Permanently if needed.

 

1) This is a good question. Both groups are pretty slow to act on anything. As for the Alliance, I'm guessing they didn't want to be in an all out war, and the Council would likely have frowned on it.

 

2) They would write them a sternly worded letter, of course. Or they'd do exactly what they did last time, up to and including Genophage 2.0.

 

3) They might not, but that is not the primary focus. The question is if one person/entity should have all the power and authority with absolutely no check or balance against it.

 

1) Close to my responds. Namely the war would have cost millions of lives to save thousands. Not a worth while trade off while there are other options.

 

2)Yes the Council and all races allied with them would have work together to put down the Krogan again. To complete extinction if need be.

 

3) Yes it is the primary focus. The claim is Control Shep is a bad thing for having so much power. Yet by all accounts it would act the exact way the citizens of the galaxy would act anyways. Which doesn't really support the claim of evil god dictator narrative about control ending Shep AI.

 

That is the Catalyst's claim, but it is not demonstrated in the story. Also, as you just said "several species went extinct," but not all. So the Catalyst extrapolated it's data.

The AI is part of the story. The Krogan Rebellion was not demonstrated in the story. Neither was the Genophage yet both are considered equally valid. So why dose this rule of must be demonstrated in the story suddenly apply to only the AI?

[gothpunkboy89]

No, because this particular thing doesn´t interest me to open another tangent of debate. You know why? I said that I answered a specific question you had. Your response was to give me a recap of the complete battle, to make a point in a debate I explicitly stated that I don´t care.

I was talking about your debating style and that people agree with the general idea that surprise attacks are a good thing. You replied with two battle recaps, a video and
 

Dude, yeah sure, that´s nice, I didn´t try to say that you are lying, the thing is that you are talking at me, not with me and you did it again, when I told you. Perhaps I wasn´t really clear about that.

 

The scientific method demands peer review and showing how you came to your results, your data, with sources, quotations if you draw from somewhere else etc.
The Catalyst doesn´t do anything of that. Yeah it´s a game and I don´t expect a scientific paper about its research but the catalyst just makes some statements with nothing to back it up. So if the Geth are an anomaly or just on the path to "kill all meatbags," yeah ok, but the Catalyst has pretty much nothing to back its claim, that its right.

Ok, hard to do the scientific method in a video game.How about this: As far as we know, the writers intended the Catalyst to be right and the AI are out to kill us all. In the same game the only killer robots we met and fought during the whole trilogy where written to be sympathetic and being on our side. That´s sending quite a few mixed signals.

 

Again though I point out how the Geth were able to do serious damage to Citadel Fleet. They claim to ask how such powerful force would be stopped by Humans. I point out that a surprise attack from the rear can do wonder. They dismiss the claim because it goes against what they want to have happened. 

 

The catalysts did do it's research and it's own tests. Hence why it sates very clearly the Reapers were not it's first idea. More like a final alternative to a problem that had no solution.

 

But again following that logic of Geth are ok. That doesn't suddenly lessen the change the next synthetic race created will follow the same path. Or the one after that. They didn't make it black and white good vs evil because that isn't what life is. Life is fully of grey.  Because of 1 example doesn't invalidate everything it said. Which is what you are saying.

 

You are very focused on only seeing 1 move a head. The AI looks 4 moves a head in the game of the galaxy. There are issues with the Geth that show it's conclusion isn't entirely false even when dealing with the Geth.  The only part it didn't get 100% correct was kill all organic life. And even then it came very close to killing an entire species.  By the skin of their teeth the Quarians survived. By the sheer selfishness of the council was the galaxy not plunged into a war with the Geth. A war that would have for sure cemented the idea that organics are bad for the Geth in their collective. Leading them if they won to attacking and killing all organics in the galaxy.

 

People  like to make fun of how selfish and self centered the Council is. And they are correct but in this case that action is most likely the single greatest thing to happen in the ME universe.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

They had to wipe out the geth to survive, heh? Did the peace for both option got cut out recently?

Obviously I'm referring to conditions where peace would not exist.
 

Ok, I don´t continue the debate about the quarians, geth and who has to genocide whom etc.
I just delivered an explanation why I am uncomfortable with control. It´s ok for me that you disagree, it´s not like Shep openly says "I will suppress the unwashed masses."
So well I am uncomfortable with installing Shepard as the ultimate carebear of the galaxy and I am uncomfortable with preventive genocide aka they could be a problem so I kill them just in case they get weird ideas. It´s really odd, seems no one in this galaxy goes for less than total or near annihilation.
So the geth, krogan or rachni going rampant in this galaxy is their decision. Wiping them out just because it could be that they don´t play nice is on me, grabbing the reins of control because I think I know best is on me, too.
So well, thanks but I don´t have to solve every possible problem which could arise in the future, they others can take responsibility, too and stop to shoot first, talk later.

You can disagree if you want, I am fine with it. Can we leave it at agree to disagree?

 
Well I'm glad you established this because it (and my ensuing response) kind of answers the OP title question. Different people have different preferences. In my case, status-quo is all well and good, but if the opportunity exists for taking more then I will generally go for it. I go Green.

[StarcloudSWG]

No if you actually read what he says is "No you can't. Without us to stop it synthetics would destroy all organic life."

 

The Catalyst's claim is that synthetics would destroy ALL organic life. Note the word ALL. 

 

This claim is NOT proven and, in fact, can be disproved.

 

Before the Catalyst even existed, there were organic races that made synthetics. Those synthetics then killed those organic races.

 

The Catalyst tells you this.

 

If the Catalyst were correct in its conclusion, it would never have been built, as there would never have been any organic life left to build it.

 

Therefore the Catalyst's conclusion is disproved by the mere existence of the Catalyst.

 

Any evidence for this conclusion collected after the Catalyst starts interfering is unreliable: it's like saying "All the eggs I buy are cracked" after you've spent a couple minutes with a hammer smashing the eggs.