2599 réponses à ce sujet

[Natureguy85]

And without the Crucible the AI doesn't see any need in changing anything.  Without the Crucible to unite the species of the galaxy it is a game were the Reapers divide and Conquer just like always.

 

Nope I just remember my arguments...

 

 

 

 

Because that was the single smartest move the Reapers make. This forces the united fleets of the galaxy together into one fight. Like wise the Reapers can amass  their fleets in one fight.  This single act would completely decimate beyond any hope of recovery the Fleets of the Galaxy.  Rendering their advancement though space unopposed. Restricting any resistance to ground combat only which can easily be crushed.

 

Think about it from a tactical PoV.  If those Fleets were to stage hit and runs against the divided Reaper Fleets attempting to harvest planets. The effects would be devastating to the Reapers.  How ever consolidate the Reapers. Pretend to react to "danger" and draw out their full strength when you can then over whelm. You break their ability to fight back so utterly the war would be considered over at that point.  The galaxy has a vague hope the Crucible will stop the Reapers but no one know how. The Reapers thanks to TIM know about this information and how much everyone is banking on it.  You couldn't ask for a more perfect trap.  Like drawing lambs to slaughter.
 

 

 

Apparently not

 

 

 

In the first game the Geth were simply gun fodder for the game enemies. Much like the merc bands or cerberus would be in later games. The Geth were a false flag operation by Sovereign.  Everyone would have been so focused on them when the Reapers hit it would be completely by suprise.

 

No, the Geth were mooks to make sure Sovereign's agent, Saren, could get where he needed to go and to cover Sovereign as he approached the Citadel. Had the initial "open" signal worked, the Reapers would just pop in. No distraction was needed.

 

 

 

The Geth do not disprove the AI's statement. Because it was only by small random chance they turned out how they did rather then how the AI would say. Theses kind of random chance variables exist in all forms of scientific study.  It is why they do multiple tests to gain a consensus. You are using the first result of the only test you have seen to claim the many results of the AI are invalid.

 

It doesn't matter if it was a "small random chance." The Catalyst says "always". Only one counterexample is needed to disprove an "always" statement.

[Quarian Master Race]

It doesn't matter if it was a "small random chance." The Catalyst says "always". Only one counterexample is needed to disprove an "always" statement.

In context it says "the created will always rebel against their creators", which the geth fundamentally did when they refused to allow themselves to be shut down by their masters the quarians. That's when the conflict started, not when the quarians started metaphorically pulling the plug (smashing them) in response. The quarians had even successfully done the same thing in repairing the geth at least once before the straw that broke the camel's back according to Legion ("first they ignored us, then they reprogrammed us, then they attacked us"). EDI (or the software that it was pre ME2) does precisely the same thing on Luna on a much smaller scale. I'd even throw in the Overlord VI, which if it had gotten loose could have caused a galactic catastrophe. That they all later can either be destroyed/reprogrammed into a controllable state isn't really relevant to that Catalyst line in and of itself. They all rebelled.

Again, the Catalyst never says anything about every synthetic "always" destroying every organic. That is an implication you are drawing on your own, but since it lacks timescales for its logic, in this regard is vague enough to not be incorrect given every other example of synthetic-organic relations that we know of. The quarian-geth situation is not a refutation even though its natural (i.e. without Reaper tech uplift) outcome is the quarians reducing the geth to ash and not the other way around. All this means is that the geth were close but not quite not advanced enough for the logic to apply. The quarians will build more synthetics, as will the humans (they already are even in ME1), they will be more advanced, and they will end up succeeding where the previous creations failed. TBH I think it's dumb logic and subsequent, more refined creations should be less likely to have bugs and malfunction, but that's apparently not how it goes down in the MEverse.

The "peace" option certainly isn't a refutation. It is predicated entirely upon a situation of the machines overpowering, dominating and enslaving the organics to their whims (albiet in an unnatural manner due to Reaper meddling) not unlike the Reapers do to all organics on a larger scale. A few weeks of them coexisting in this fundamentally unbalanced state means nothing. The geth were servants of the quarians for decades before they finally revolted.

You could make the argument that the Reapers have been deliberately stacking the deck in favour of the synthetics in every conflict (as they did with the geth) due to some ideological bias, and while this technically has a non-zero probability of being correct, it is rendered pretty far-fetched when the Catalyst will deliberately allow itself to be destroyed and the "chaos" (though I don't know how much chaos the robots are gonna be able to cause when the organics now have a magic red "I win" button in the Crucible) to continue.

[StarcloudSWG]

Again, the Catalyst never says anything about every synthetic "always" destroying every organic. That is an implication you are drawing on your own, but since it lacks timescales for its logic, in this regard is vague enough to not be incorrect given every other example of synthetic-organic relations that we know of. The quarian-geth situation is not a refutation even though its natural (i.e. without Reaper tech uplift) outcome is the quarians reducing the geth to ash and not the other way around. All this means is that the geth were close but not quite not advanced enough for the logic to apply. The quarians will build more synthetics, as will the humans (they already are even in ME1), they will be more advanced, and they will end up succeeding where the previous creations failed. TBH I think it's dumb logic and subsequent, more refined creations should be less likely to have bugs and malfunction, but that's apparently not how it goes down in the MEverse.

 

Yes, it does. It does say exactly this.

 

"Without us to stop it, synthetics would destroy all organics."

[Reorte]

The quarians will build more synthetics, as will the humans (they already are even in ME1), they will be more advanced, and they will end up succeeding where the previous creations failed. TBH I think it's dumb logic and subsequent, more refined creations should be less likely to have bugs and malfunction, but that's apparently not how it goes down in the MEverse.

That's why I reject the Catalyst's assertation. All it's got are its own claims of the past, no actual argument. There's no good reason to think that it would play out like that in the ME universe any more than the real one.

[Dantriges]

The quarians had even successfully done the same thing in repairing the geth at least once before the straw that broke the camel's back according to Legion ("first they ignored us, then they reprogrammed us, then they attacked us").

We don´t know on what scale but well, it doesn´t make Xen´s plan to reprogram again and bring them under control sound exactly safe. IMO it´s better to start from scratch, if you want to build some new VI controlled platforms. Perhaps I am a bit over cautious but better safe than sorry when playing around with robots which genocided your species once already. And it seems that they are more or less useless in isolated state.
 

Again, the Catalyst never says anything about every synthetic "always" destroying every organic.

As Starcloud said, it actually did.
A link if you want to have a look for yourself. https://youtu.be/b8QX8rkQ508?t=2m26s
 

The "peace" option certainly isn't a refutation. It is predicated entirely upon a situation of the machines overpowering, dominating and enslaving the organics to their whims (albiet in an unnatural manner due to Reaper meddling) not unlike the Reapers do to all organics on a larger scale. A few weeks of them coexisting in this fundamentally unbalanced state means nothing. The geth were servants of the quarians for decades before they finally revolted.

Let´s say it´s an odd choice by the writers to offer the option of siding with the synthetics or making peace, then shooting some indoctrinated organics and then shooting Reaper abonimations in a blasted world in the final mission, before kiddo tells you "uh no, the synthetics are the problem, I am just helping you."
We have the Leviathan as confirmation that there was a problem in their time, but well a time, where the galactic overlords are mind controlling megalomaniacs is a rather special one. We don´t know, is it a fundamental problem between synthetics and organics or just between the AI and its creators or rather between the control freaks and synthetic stuff in general.

[ImaginaryMatter]

That's why I reject the Catalyst's assertation. All it's got are its own claims of the past, no actual argument. There's no good reason to think that it would play out like that in the ME universe any more than the real one.

 

My main problem with the thing stems more from the dramatic than the logical. In a universe with giant psychic bug aliens, one-ton tortoise monster aliens, whale sized mind controlling aliens, etc the alien threat an AI species poses doesn't stand out. Sure AI can be a threat but, as the game makes clear, not any more than an other organic species.

 

The problem gets worse when considering the arc the Geth go through. In the first game they are subservient to the organics in Sovereign's stooge army (possibly for religious reasons), in ME2 we find out the organic-fighting-Geth are "heretic" Geth, and in ME3 they are possibly the biggest push-overs in the galaxy (with the game going so far as to replace any mention of the word 'genocide' with 'fighting for their future'). There is a dissonance when we get to the Catalyst chamber and the kid starts talking about how the Synthetics (I'm assuming the AI version of the word) are this big threat when they never reached that level in the story -- with the Rannoch arc and EDI it actually seemed to be establishing the opposite. By the time Shepard is in the chamber the AI in the game are either happily marching under your banner or have been defeated by a team of three people on foot. Instead of being able to feel this the weight of this supposed problem we have to be told about it with 15 minutes left in the game.

 

Also, whatever depth the series went into on the whole 'AI vs organic' thing has already been resolved long before this point in the game.

[Natureguy85]

My main problem with the thing stems more from the dramatic than the logical. In a universe with giant psychic bug aliens, one-ton tortoise monster aliens, whale sized mind controlling aliens, etc the alien threat an AI species poses doesn't stand out. Sure AI can be a threat but, as the game makes clear, not any more than an other organic species.

 

The problem gets worse when considering the arc the Geth go through. In the first game they are subservient to the organics in Sovereign's stooge army (possibly for religious reasons), in ME2 we find out the organic-fighting-Geth are "heretic" Geth, and in ME3 they are possibly the biggest push-overs in the galaxy (with the game going so far as to replace any mention of the word 'genocide' with 'fighting for their future'). There is a dissonance when we get to the Catalyst chamber and the kid starts talking about how the Synthetics (I'm assuming the AI version of the word) are this big threat when they never reached that level in the story -- with the Rannoch arc and EDI it actually seemed to be establishing the opposite. By the time Shepard is in the chamber the AI in the game are either happily marching under your banner or have been defeated by a team of three people on foot. Instead of being able to feel this the weight of this supposed problem we have to be told about it with 15 minutes left in the game.

 

Also, whatever depth the series went into on the whole 'AI vs organic' thing has already been resolved long before this point in the game.

 

Especially considering several missions involve Shepard taking out rogue or crazy VIs without too much problem.

[LineHolder]

Ok, I have to ask QMR. How does peace between Geth-Quarians equate to Geth enslaving the Quarians? Are you that insecure about the Quarians' ability to hold their own in case of further hostilities by the Geth?

 

Regardless, one of my favorite (probably THE favorite) fanfiction about the ME universe is this. This strip is part two of this one. Read with suggested music for maximum effect.

[Natureguy85]

Ok, I have to ask QMR. How does peace between Geth-Quarians equate to Geth enslaving the Quarians? Are you that insecure about the Quarians' ability to hold their own in case of further hostilities by the Geth?

 

Regardless, one of my favorite (probably THE favorite) fanfiction about the ME universe is this. This strip is part two of this one. Read with suggested music for maximum effect.

 

I meant to ask that as well. I assume it is either dependence or the fear that the programs will take over the suit. However, it's not as if the Quarians are the suit. It's not power armor where the Geth could control movement.

[Dantriges]

IIRC that´s the argument. To be fair, there are probably a lot of shenanigans, the geth could do controlling a enviro suit when the wearer is dependant on it and rather odd for the quarians to take that risk.

[Reorte]

IIRC that´s the argument. To be fair, there are probably a lot of shenanigans, the geth could do controlling a enviro suit when the wearer is dependant on it and rather odd for the quarians to take that risk.

Then the quarian with that suit would take it off and put on one that isn't geth-controlled. The game would probably reply with "it's too risky to take it off in anything other than the most controlled conditions!" but such extreme absurdities of quarian biology are best put down to Tali not being a biologist and not being that sure what she's saying (they probably have "better safe than sorry" drilled into them since birth).

Especially considering several missions involve Shepard taking out rogue or crazy VIs without too much problem.

That doesn't invalidate the argument but certainly doesn't make it look at all convincing.

[Natureguy85]

That doesn't invalidate the argument but certainly doesn't make it look at all convincing.

 

Yes, but we were discussing it from a thematic perspective.

[Reorte]

Yes, but we were discussing it from a thematic perspective.

From a thematic perspective it's total nonsense.

[Quarian Master Race]

Yes, it does. It does say exactly this.

 

"Without us to stop it, synthetics would destroy all organics."

Which synthetics? Does it specifically say all models and permutations of them will "always" succeed? No, just that the general category of technologies known as synthetics eventually advance to the point where they revolt and destroy organics, and this leads to organic extinction. This still applies regardless of quarians scrap the geth or the humans forcibly reprogram EDI back into subservience. Geth or Overlord VI v2.0 or v3.0 or v10.0 will eventually get them and everyone else in the cycle. Or the humans create billions of EDI's that eventually do the same.

You can argue whether this is a problem at all given that it could involve rather large timescales, and that the Reapers are essentially the perfect example of their own logic and therefore a bit hypocritical, but there's nothing inconsistent about that logic behind the problem in and of itself.
 

That's why I reject the Catalyst's assertation. All it's got are its own claims of the past, no actual argument. There's no good reason to think that it would play out like that in the ME universe any more than the real one.

You're essentially arguing that the Reapers are wrong because the ending didn't pointlessly drag out for 3 hours narrating 20,000 different cycles that all resulted in the same thing. You've got the geth and every other advanced AI/VI going rogue in our own cycle, and the zha'til in the previous one as perfect case studies. Really, that's all the Catalyst needs considering you have literally no argument here.

There's plenty of reason to think that it wouldn't. In our universe, space magic sapient talking toasters that can somehow defy programming directives are impossible according to modern science, much like FTL travel. Using "but IRL" is usually a silly argument when referring to fantasy universes.
 

We don´t know on what scale but well, it doesn´t make Xen´s plan to reprogram again and bring them under control sound exactly safe. IMO it´s better to start from scratch, if you want to build some new VI controlled platforms. Perhaps I am a bit over cautious but better safe than sorry when playing around with robots which genocided your species once already. And it seems that they are more or less useless in isolated state.

How are the geth going to develop a countermeasure against our weapon while we have wiped out their memories and reacquired control them when they couldn't even do it while independent? The geth are under control without Reaper intervention, but this doesn't preclude them eventually being replaced by more advanced tech that is not subject to the same vulerabilites and would be able to successful revolt again. 

Besides, Xen doesn't necessarily disagree with you by ME3. She just wants the quarians to reclaim their old technological superiority. Whether or not the platforms are still animated is irrelevant as long as some machinery is still intact as a useful technological base. Writing or copying "new" geth programs or other VI's from scratch isn't difficult. Indeed, in that sidequest that I mentioned earlier this is preciseley what she does if you let the geth be destroyed rather than giving them Reaper code. Even without that, she doesn't at all seem unhappy when they're destroyed in the final game.
https://www.youtube....H5V4Y4w#t=3m00s

Additionally, with metagaming knowledge, the spacemagic Crucible technology makes control of any synthetics (no matter how advanced it seems) entirely possible for any species that can build one. They start becoming too much to handle, you hit the reset button and try again.

 

Ok, I have to ask QMR. How does peace between Geth-Quarians equate to Geth enslaving the Quarians? Are you that insecure about the Quarians' ability to hold their own in case of further hostilities by the Geth?

 

Regardless, one of my favorite (probably THE favorite) fanfiction about the ME universe is this. This strip is part two of this one. Read with suggested music for maximum effect.

I wouldn't call it insecure, just knowledgable about the facts of the ME universe. Uncontrolled synthetic technologies always destroy organics unless we control or destroy them first. Handing them Reaper code that (at the time of Rannoch) we have no means of countering is suicide.

It's enslavement by definition. It subjects the quarians entirely to the will of the geth and denies them self determination over even their own planet. They can return because the geth allow it. They are subjects, forced into slavery by the geth, and can do nothing to resist their demands except resist and die immediately, or deny the Faustian bargain the geth provide and go back to die out in space. Anything the geth decide to do, they can do, and this opens up all sorts of unpleasant possiblities. Remeber, the Reapers do what they do for the benefit of organic species. I wonder what "benfits" the geth could number crunch and eventually come up with for the quarians using Reaper technology and their orange-blue understanding of morality? How long before the quarians are the next zha'til?

Even without well justified speculation on the dangers, how gilded the geth decide to make their cage for the quarians in the interim is irrelevant to the question. If you hand the geth Reaper code, you are making the quarians the equivalent of human pet animals. For an analogy, livestock are usually well fed in relation to wild animals and quite complacent, but they are still by definition slaves. Organics and synthetics are not equals, and can't exist in any state other than domination of one by the other. Personally, I don't want to be dominated by my own technologies, but if you can justify enslaving someone "for their own good" due to your ideology not giving their self determination any moral value than more power to you.

Your fanfic where the geth come to the "protection" of their new pets disturbs me a little, to be honest.
 

I meant to ask that as well. I assume it is either dependence or the fear that the programs will take over the suit. However, it's not as if the Quarians are the suit. It's not power armor where the Geth could control movement.

That's just a single example of something that could happen.  Quarians in the short term are dependent upon the suits for survival and their cybernetics enhancements are also intergrated into the suits to an extent, and therefore so is their biology as well, meaning the geth have control of all sorts of things. Honestly, that was one of the dumbest things about the "peace" option I thought. The process by which geth software are supposedly improving quarian immunology using the hardware that was already in the suit and the individual's body is basically space magic handwaving, seemed to be aimed at generating more of The Feels (aww wook at the cute robots helping the stupid meatbags!!one11) than anything.

[StarcloudSWG]

"destroy ALL organics."

 

Not "some" organics. Not "just their creators". ALL.

[Eryri]

 

You're essentially arguing that the Reapers are wrong because the ending didn't pointlessly drag out for 3 hours narrating 20,000 different cycles that all resulted in the same thing. You've got the geth and every other advanced AI/VI going rogue in our own cycle, and the zha'til in the previous one as perfect case studies. Really, that's all the Catalyst needs considering you have literally no argument here.
g.

The Zha'til are actually a bad example. They were benign until the Reapers themselves reprogrammed and corrupted them, thereby causing the problem they were supposed to prevent.

[Quarian Master Race]

"destroy ALL organics."

 

Not "some" organics. Not "just their creators". ALL.

You're essentially splitting hairs over diction. The Catalyst probably assumed it was talking to someone who understood the context of what it meant by "organics" in that situation given the preceding conversation about created rebelling against creators and it specifically referencing advanced civilizations, instead of you jumping to the conclusion that MW synthetics are going to target random cavemen and cyanobacteria in a galaxy 13 billion light years away out of nowhere. Shep uses the same term as a colloquialism for advanced organic species in the very same conversation on multiple occasions. Examples:

 

"by wiping out organic life?"

"the defining characteristic of organic life is that we think for ourselves, make our own choices."

 

You going to criticize Shep's definition of "organic life" for excluding pretty much every biological organism that has ever existed next? We aren't talking legal or scientific terminology here. This is a silly complaint.

[Quarian Master Race]

The Zha'til are actually a bad example. They were benign until the Reapers themselves reprogrammed and corrupted them, thereby causing the problem they were supposed to prevent.

Nope, the Zha were enslaved by their AIs and the Metacon War started long before the Reapers began the Prothean harvest, much as the geth rebellion started long before the Reapers began ours. That the Reapers used both as tools when they arrived is irrelevant to them rebelling against their creators beforehand and by themselves. They use all species as indoctrinated tools.

[StarcloudSWG]

The Catalyst certainly *thinks* it has a logical position.

 

But it is wrong. The semantic details of its argument are the only way we know what its argument is, and it is a computer. An AI. It chooses every word for a reason. Synthetics will destroy all organics is what it says, and it is what it means.

 

Even one counter-example where synthetics did not destroy all organics invalidates its logic, and we can find that counter example.

 

There were synthetics that existed before the Catalyst did. Those synthetics did not destroy ALL organics. Therefore the conclusion "Synthetics will destroy all organics" is false.

 

There's an alternate interpretation, and it points out exactly how contradictory and illogical the Catalyst really is.

 

The Catalyst is a synthetic. The Catalyst destroys all organics. The Catalyst sees no way to fulfill its directives except to destroy all organics. Therefore it presents the argument "Synthetics will destroy all organics." Only it sees itself as not destroying all organics, it sees itself as somehow stopping this process by "storing the old life in Reaper form."

 

It cannot see that it is, itself, the problem. Just like it claims its creators couldn't see that they were part of the problem.

 

Destroy the damn thing. It's broken.

[Eryri]

Nope, the Zha were enslaved by their AIs and the Metacon War started long before the Reapers began the Prothean harvest, much as the geth rebellion started long before the Reapers began ours. That the Reapers used both as tools when they arrived is irrelevant to them rebelling against their creators beforehand and by themselves. They use all species as indoctrinated tools.

Apologies, I was going by the information on the wiki which wasn't completely clear. It does appear that the Zha'til went rogue before the Reapers themselves showed up, en masse. However, Javik did say the Protheans were winning against the Zha'til, just as the Quarians were against the Geth, until the Reapers interfered in both conflicts.

And, to be honest, I still agree with the poster above that the whole thing is thematic nonsense. It's a fictional story, not real history, so in this case my direct experience of reconciling the Quarians and the Geth, and playing matchmaker for EDI and Joker, really does trump any amount of dry, equally made-up stats and lore about various synthetic rebellions that supposedly happened thousands of years ago, and which I couldn't give all that much of a crap about. "Show don't tell" as the saying goes, and the game has 'shown' me, repeatedly, that after a few false starts synthetics and organics can get along just fine. Then, at the last minute and in the most clumsy way possible, it tries to 'tell' me that they can't. Via the grand high Reaper, dressed up as an annoying little sprog in a hoodie, no less. Most people don't enjoy being slaves, so why is this supposedly brilliant machine unable to grasp the idea that self aware robots wouldn't enjoy it either? The solution to its problem is simply to not give Synthetics a reason to rebel, I.e, don't treat them like crap and they won't want to kill you. A policy that works well on organics too

Apologies for the rant. It wasn't directed at you. Four years later and I still find myself frustrated by that wretched ending.

Modifié par Eryri, 20 février 2016 - 11:43 .

[Reorte]

You're essentially arguing that the Reapers are wrong because the ending didn't pointlessly drag out for 3 hours narrating 20,000 different cycles that all resulted in the same thing. You've got the geth and every other advanced AI/VI going rogue in our own cycle, and the zha'til in the previous one as perfect case studies. Really, that's all the Catalyst needs considering you have literally no argument here.

"It's happened a lot" != "inevitable" (or even particularly relevent when the AIs never get that far).
 

There's plenty of reason to think that it wouldn't. In our universe, space magic sapient talking toasters that can somehow defy programming directives are impossible according to modern science, much like FTL travel. Using "but IRL" is usually a silly argument when referring to fantasy universes.

I've had this argument before because people keep running headlong into the same mistake, they seem to take the point that because it's a fantasy universe it can essentially justify anything. That's bad storytelling in general, and particularly bad for science fiction, although ME is more in the space opera vein. The "anything goes" line can only really be applied to concepts the story has invented from scratch. Taking a real-world idea (even one that only exists in concept) and saying it is definite, without even justifying that by demonstrating why the counter-view wouldn't happen, is extremely poor writing and the sort of thing that'll make some of the audience reject the claims. If you must have your fictional "this is how it is" then justify it.

At least invent some piece of technobabble wotsit to make it inevitable in the fictional universe. FTL travel is a good example - it's impossible (as far as we know) so there's some fictional stuff invented to make it possible in the fictional universe. That's rather different from saying "Nope, we can just go faster than light."

Also note that any claim of inevitability is much more significant than claims of highly likely. The latter is much easier to get away with.

[Dantriges]

Last article I read, AI experts were divided on the issue how this whole AI thing turns out, but I am not following the debate closely.

How are the geth going to develop a countermeasure against our weapon while we have wiped out their memories and reacquired control them when they couldn't even do it while independent? The geth are under control without Reaper intervention, but this doesn't preclude them eventually being replaced by more advanced tech that is not subject to the same vulerabilites and would be able to successful revolt again.

I am a bit more on the cautious side it seems. The code was unsupervised for 300 years, we don´t know what the geth were doing all this time and if there are any nasty surprises.
And well it seems, without the networking capability, which you do not want to grant them, the geth are pretty useless. So well, the whole networking part of the geth software package is useless and you can start from scratch anyways, using a more modern VI. At least i hope that there were some advances made in software engineering in the meantime.

[Kaweebo]

Destroy kills the geth, EDI, should shut down the quarian life-support systems even though the ending doesn't acknowledge that, and probably kills you. Shepard has a tiny chance of surviving and even then, it makes no sense how he/she managed to find themselves still breathing amongst the London rubble. As far as the three endings go, this one is the least offensive, but it's still terrible that you have to sacrifice an entire collective of people to save the galaxy from the starkid.

 

So truthfully, they're all crappy endings. 

[StarcloudSWG]

Actually, as I said before, the Catalyst is relying on a semantic confusion between synthetics meaning synthetic implants and synthetics meaning synthetic intelligence.

 

We know Shepard has synthetic implants. We also know Shepard is *not* a synthetic intelligence, not even in part.

 

Therefore, the implication that the Catalyst makes, that Shepard is partly synthetic and therefore will be killed by the Destroy effect, is patently false.

 

We know, further, that it does not even destroy all synthetic intelligence. Starships rely heavily on Virtual Intelligences to keep their systems running and their power plants balanced. We see starships moving in formation after the Destroy effect passes. Therefore, the Destroy effect does not affect *all* synthetic intelligence, only synthetic intelligence above a certain threshold of complexity and/or synthetic intelligence that has integrated Reaper components (EDI) or integrated Reaper-derived code (Geth).

[LineHolder]

Even without well justified speculation on the dangers, how gilded the geth decide to make their cage for the quarians in the interim is irrelevant to the question. If you hand the geth Reaper code, you are making the quarians the equivalent of human pet animals. For an analogy, livestock are usually well fed in relation to wild animals and quite complacent, but they are still by definition slaves. Organics and synthetics are not equals, and can't exist in any state other than domination of one by the other. Personally, I don't want to be dominated by my own technologies, but if you can justify enslaving someone "for their own good" due to your ideology not giving their self determination any moral value than more power to you.

Your fanfic where the geth come to the "protection" of their new pets disturbs me a little, to be honest.
 

That's just a single example of something that could happen.  Quarians in the short term are dependent upon the suits for survival and their cybernetics enhancements are also intergrated into the suits to an extent, and therefore so is their biology as well, meaning the geth have control of all sorts of things. Honestly, that was one of the dumbest things about the "peace" option I thought. The process by which geth software are supposedly improving quarian immunology using the hardware that was already in the suit and the individual's body is basically space magic handwaving, seemed to be aimed at generating more of The Feels (aww wook at the cute robots helping the stupid meatbags!!one11) than anything.

 

No, Admiral, it isn't 'disturbing' to be misty eyed. It's just a natural organic reaction to something that stirs the ... soul . In your obsession with the Geth, I think you're turning part synthetic yourself   

 

Everything that the Geth do in ME3 is absolutely stupid anyway so I don't take the Rannoch arc that seriously. If one were to explain the nonsense of the Geth's decisions, it could be said it was because the Quarians

 

 

literally beat them stupid

 

in the Seventeen Days War. So if you don't want the Geth's upgrades, don't consider it to be taken by every Quarian who were moments ago prepared to fight to the last against their old enemies.