2610 réponses à ce sujet

[gothpunkboy89]

Vigil describes the Reapers shutting down the network to isolate the Prothean systems.

See funny thing about that is how easy it is to alter that. Considering this is from a Prothean VI that was created after the Reapers had all but doomed the Protheans. Locked on a planet that was in a total black out to the rest of their Empire.So the information might not be 100% accurate. This is an act done a lot by game makers. They kind of set one thing up but then change their mind latter and alter it. Usually using the obvious pretense of it not being first hand 100% accurate data. Which also applies here. Post a few Reapers at the Relays and no one can leave or enter but the Reapers.

 

There is no such thing as a Pyrrhic Victory when the alternative is extinction.

Actually there is. Planets damaged so badly they can't support life. Population depleted to the point it would almost be unsustainable genetically. Wars breaking out between existing factions for the limited supplies that exist.

 

A Pyrrhic victory is a victory that inflicts such a devastating toll on the victor that it is tantamount to defeat. Someone who wins a Pyrrhic victory has been victorious in some way. However, the heavy toll negates any sense of achievement or profit. Another term for this would be "hollow victory"

 

Who said anything about being realistic? I'm questioning why the Reapers don't do what they've always done when it is not only within their power to do so, but is the smartest course of action. Yeah, Sovereign could have been guarding the exit relay from the Mu jump or guarding Ilos itself, but that can be handwaved. He didn't destroy the Normandy at Virmire. I just figure he dropped Saren on Ilos and then went to stage with the Geth fleet for the jump to the Citadel. You can say that's silly, but it doesn't violate a plot point.

And nothing changes here as well. Nothing done violates a plot point.

 

And yet the Reapers always do the divide and conquer strategy, except for this cycle. Well I suppose it's nice to actually have them acknowledge that this cycle is different, though the Catalyst ignores it. Seriously though, the fact that they divide and conquer rather than herd the galaxy's forces together as you're describing was something that made me wonder if Sovereign was posturing and the Reapers, while powerful, weren't as invincible as he let on. Things Vigil says could support that as well. However it could just be that isolating systems lets them send fewer Reapers to each place and thus hit more places at once.

 

They do attempt the divide and conquer. Shepard is the one that alters that by attempting to unite the galaxy together. Because of the change the Reapers responded to Shepard's actions.  Reaper's aren't invincible that has been established since the first game. But they are much more powerful then current ships. Like a modern day battle ship vs a Greek/Roman Warship.

 

My one example is the one relevant to the current cycle. The Catalyst makes claims but presents no data, forcing us to trust it as an authority. While the Catalyst may be right about the past, it is wrong here.

 

That Shepard and Co. can take out so many enemies is something we accept as viewers, or players in this case, of action media. It's common and is, in fact, something we expect going into the fiction. This is not comparable to a character being introduced at the ending spewing ideas that were at best not presented and were at worse countered by the story.

 

The Leviathan DLC is optional and is an argument after the fact. The main plot, not side content, needs to back up the Catalyst. It does not do so.

 

But it isn't wrong here. If you remove the Reaper influence the Geth would have been killed off. Which means the Geth don't qualify under the AI's rules. Caused conflict yes but never evolved truly beyond their creators. Which was the key method beyond this.

 

Leviathan is cannon. DLC or not it is cannon and their information is equally valid. It is applied during any topic of the ending.

[Natureguy85]

See funny thing about that is how easy it is to alter that. Considering this is from a Prothean VI that was created after the Reapers had all but doomed the Protheans. Locked on a planet that was in a total black out to the rest of their Empire.So the information might not be 100% accurate. This is an act done a lot by game makers. They kind of set one thing up but then change their mind latter and alter it. Usually using the obvious pretense of it not being first hand 100% accurate data. Which also applies here. Post a few Reapers at the Relays and no one can leave or enter but the Reapers.

 

That's you projecting onto the story. Ilos wasn't in total blackout or Vigil wouldn't have all the information he has. You're right that things change as a series progresses and that clearly happened with Mass Effect. However, those changes have to be addressed and they were not. Again, no Reapers need be posted anywhere. They can turn off the Relays, perhaps allowing only themselves through with the IFF. This is why I thought they might go that route. The IFF would allow the Normandy to be the one ship that can get anywhere. Wouldn't that have been cool for Shepard and the Normandy to actually be special again?

 

 

 

 

Actually there is. Planets damaged so badly they can't support life. Population depleted to the point it would almost be unsustainable genetically. Wars breaking out between existing factions for the limited supplies that exist.

 

A Pyrrhic victory is a victory that inflicts such a devastating toll on the victor that it is tantamount to defeat. Someone who wins a Pyrrhic victory has been victorious in some way. However, the heavy toll negates any sense of achievement or profit. Another term for this would be "hollow victory"

 

I know what it means. I linked to the description. And all of that is still better than total annihilation, isn't it?

 

 

 

And nothing changes here as well. Nothing done violates a plot point.

 

Not taking the Citadel does violate a Mass Effect plot point. In fact, the speed with which the Reapers arrive make Sovereign's efforts pointless.

 

 

 

 

They do attempt the divide and conquer. Shepard is the one that alters that by attempting to unite the galaxy together. Because of the change the Reapers responded to Shepard's actions.  Reaper's aren't invincible that has been established since the first game. But they are much more powerful then current ships. Like a modern day battle ship vs a Greek/Roman Warship.

 

The Reapers allow the uniting by not shutting down the Relay network as they did during the Prothean cycle. There is no reason for this. Particularly when even one Reaper lost should be a catastrophic failure to the Catalyst since the Reapers are all about preserving the species they are made of.

 

 

 

But it isn't wrong here. If you remove the Reaper influence the Geth would have been killed off. Which means the Geth don't qualify under the AI's rules. Caused conflict yes but never evolved truly beyond their creators. Which was the key method beyond this.

 

Leviathan is cannon. DLC or not it is cannon and their information is equally valid. It is applied during any topic of the ending.

 

Sure it is. It says:

 

"Organics create Synthetics to improve their own existence, but those improvements have limits. In order to exceed those limits, Synthetics must be allowed to evolve. They must by definition, surpass their creators. The result is conflict; destruction, chaos. It is inevitable." (Emphasis added)

 

Now, there was conflict between Geth and Quarian, but the Organics were the aggressors. The Geth did seem to surpass the Quarians for a time, though the Quarians were able to surpass them back. Either way, the Geth decided not to finish off the Quarians in the first conflict, and were not able to without Reaper assistance in the second. The Catalyst says that without Reapers, Synthetics would wipe out all Organics, but in this cycle, the Synthetics only might wipe out one race and they are only able to with the Reapers.

 

 

 

 

Leviathan is cannon. DLC or not it is cannon and their information is equally valid. It is applied during any topic of the ending.

 

You can only argue it impacts the ending if you played it. If not, Shepard doesn't have the benefit of their story to believe the Catalyst. It is not like Arrival or LotSB where the game creates a way to achieve the same result whether you played or not.  Still, my problem with the Leviathan DLC is that I don't care why the Catalyst was made. Even if it were right, I'd still want it and the Reapers to die or go away.

[dorktainian]

What if (as I've speculated before) the reaper cycle is a self contained event in space time?  An instant full of possibilities - after which time can proceed as normal but only if you break the cycle?  The Catalyst speaks in both Male and Female Shepards Voices....  Could this be because the cycle always has Shepard arriving at the Crucible and always will, The same choices always offered to you unless you choose to break the cycle?

 

"The Crucible 'changed me', opened 'new possibilities'"

 

If the Crucible 'changed' star jar, then Destroy could not have been an option before.  My theory is that Control and Synthesis were Always options available, but Destroy was only possible because of the Crucible.  Reasons?  Well the Protheans fell because they chose Synthesis, thus losing their genetic identity over time until they were little more than husks. Control favours a repeat of the cycle.  Nothing changes.  50,000 years and the cycle will repeat again.  Nothing changes.

 

Why Destroy is so brilliant is that it actually 'shows you' (should you have a high enough EMS) that Shepard can survive the cycle.  The other endings are really fluff.  Nothing more.  Reapers surviving is a bad thing, or did people forget that after playing through the previous games?

[Eryri]

I shoot the tube as well. The Reapers attempting to find a "solution" is unnessesary now that organics have our own in the Crucible tech, which they were a catalyst (no, not that one) for creating. If I agreed with the notion that synthetics were worthy of moral consideration, blue or green options also solve this in the only manner that it is possible.

snip
No doubt, but there's no reason to assume that was the end result, or that even if it had been that the Protheans wouldn't be felled by other synthetics.

If that's good enough for your enjoyment than go with it. Personally, I never take those two options for reasons previously elucidated. In my game, synthetics and organics in no way got along with each other, and the geth had to be destroyed because they betrayed the organics out of convenience, aimed to genocide their Creators, and would not submit to our control. It's not as if the post Crucible endgame is incompatable with either interpretation

Ah, I see where you're coming from now. Although I have different reasons, I do actually favour Destroy too. Although (at the risk of committing hyperbole) it's in much the same way that I might favour death by lethal injection over being crucified or burnt at the stake. I was fond of both EDI and the Geth (or at least Legion's ME2 incarnation before being pinnochified in ME3), so killing them sucked, but the other two option are just so thematically awful, and just plain squicky, that I really can't support anything else.

Control validated the opinions of that smug, chain-smoking racist TIM, and means you have to have faith that some weird copy of Shepard isn't going to use the enormous power available to it and go on another rampage. Not to mention it smacks of hubris when tends to get punished in the ME universe.

And as for Synthesis... That's like something out of a David Cronenberg movie. The thought of green circuits growing like fungus through everyone's flesh makes me want to gag.

Refuse I'm fairly ambivalent towards. Yes its suicidal, but at least you get you get a good speech out of it.

[gothpunkboy89]

That's you projecting onto the story. Ilos wasn't in total blackout or Vigil wouldn't have all the information he has. You're right that things change as a series progresses and that clearly happened with Mass Effect. However, those changes have to be addressed and they were not. Again, no Reapers need be posted anywhere. They can turn off the Relays, perhaps allowing only themselves through with the IFF. This is why I thought they might go that route. The IFF would allow the Normandy to be the one ship that can get anywhere. Wouldn't that have been cool for Shepard and the Normandy to actually be special again?

 

No it was clearly stated in game that Ilos was a planet that as soon as they realized the Reapers would win were put into a total black out. Specifically to prevent the Reapers from finding them. Making them think it was just a dead planet. There were tons of stasis pods on Illos. But only a handful of top scientists survived because of the strain on the power supply. Taking hundreds of years for the Reapers to finally finish and leave. It is only after they are awakened do they risk sending a message out through the beacons. Not sure if anyone would be left and possibly risking gaining Reaper attention. But feeling they had to just in case there were survivors.

 

What you are thinking about is Javik's attempt to do the same thing. Which ended much differently because the Reapers knew about Eden Prime. Also Normandy and it's crew are special enough already.

[Elhanan]

evolution of life will continue
 
Destroy FTW

Evolution of all life will continue.

Synthesis FTW

[themikefest]

Evolution of all life will continue.

Synthesis FTW

Not according to the thing. It says green is the final evolution of all life.

 

Destroy FTW

[Bowlcuts]

Evolution of all life will continue.

Synthesis FTW

Sex will never be the same for the cyber-fleshies.

 

Destroy FTW

[Elhanan]

Sex will never be the same for the cyber-fleshies.
 
Destroy FTW

Based on what has already occurred in the series, I have doubts....

Synthesis FTW

[Elhanan]

Not according to the thing. It says green is the final evolution of all life.
 
Destroy FTW

Symbiosis may be, but even that life will likely adapt to meet a chaotic environment.

Synthesis FTW

[themikefest]

Symbiosis may be, but even that life will likely adapt to meet a chaotic environment.

Synthesis FTW

So you're saying the thing is wrong?

 

Destroy FTW

[Quarian Master Race]

 

By the paragon route, the peace can also be forged because the geth side of the Morning War also comes out.  Shepard can declare "the geth don't want to fight you"  

Meh, it's a nice speech, but both options for achieving the ceasefire share the dialouge "the geth are returning to full strength, if you keep attacking they'll wipe you out". That's the important bit. As magic as bluespeech seems to be throughout the series, I don't think Han'Gerrel and Daro'Xen suddenly grow a heart for the toasters just because of it. Koris is definitely sympathetic, but he's running the Civilian ships on the other side of the system from Rannoch that have just began firing on the geth fleet. Even if he stops their cover is already blown if Gerrel continues his assault.  Remeber, this is they guy whom at Tali's hearing (before being grossly character assassinated in ME3) responded to the knowledge that there were two seperate geth factions with "good, maybe they'll kill each other off". He has nothing but contempt for them them. 

No, the only thing he cares about is that his and his people's asses are on the line if he doesn't surrender. Even then, there's seemingly a lot of disappointment or regret in his voice even as he gives the order. I don't for a second think he wouldn't immediately jump right back on the opportunity to scrap the geth if Xen manages to gain an advantage for the quarians over them in the future, and the vast majority of the adult quarian population are just like them in this regard.
 

I meant the claim that the peace won't last, not it's initial premise for creating the Reapers.

Ahh, then yes I agree. So many asked for the ability to plug the quarian-geth "peace" as an argument, but the Catalyst could quite easily shoot you down by just pointing to the fact that it was predicated upon subjugation under threat of genocide in the first place. Gerrels and Xens are never going to stop existing unless you impose green space magic upon and turn them into mindless drones, or enslave them with an army of Reapers under pain of death until the end of time. Hell, in Control I can still see Xen and TIM types trying to find a way. The potential to either defeat or control the Reapers and use them for their own ends was there before and can presumably be achieved again.

 

Ah, I see where you're coming from now. Although I have different reasons, I do actually favour Destroy too. Although (at the risk of committing hyperbole) it's in much the same way that I might favour death by lethal injection over being crucified or burnt at the stake. I was fond of both EDI and the Geth (or at least Legion's ME2 incarnation before being pinnochified in ME3), so killing them sucked, but the other two option are just so thematically awful, and just plain squicky, that I really can't support anything else.

Control validated the opinions of that smug, chain-smoking racist TIM, and means you have to have faith that some weird copy of Shepard isn't going to use the enormous power available to it and go on another rampage. Not to mention it smacks of hubris when tends to get punished in the ME universe.

And as for Synthesis... That's like something out of a David Cronenberg movie. The thought of green circuits growing like fungus through everyone's flesh makes me want to gag.

Refuse I'm fairly ambivalent towards. Yes its suicidal, but at least you get you get a good speech out of it.

For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure the geth would rather self terminate than at least one of the other two options anyway. They were willing to be destroyed entirely rather than surrender and submit to control by the quarians at Rannoch, and I don't see how Control by Shepalyst would be any different in principle (though they don't seem to keep resisting for some reason as they do against the quarians, judging by ending slides). Acceptance of Synthesis is dependant upon whether we are talking ME2's religiously self determinant or ME3's tech stealing real boy Pinnochio geth ideology, considering they are radically different and almost unrecognizable as the same thing. The ME3 version would likely support the latter, but only because it doesn't seem to change them at all (apart from some vague, "understanding" garbage) while it turns the organics and their potentially centillions of progeny that threaten the geth into Borg drones.

I didn't have thematic issues with Control, as it was there as an option that you could support more or less at various points in the trilogy (particularly ME2 and its Collector Base decision). To be honest, I agreed with TIM in principle if not for in his hilarious, over the top unsafe and unethical mad science methods and blatant humanocentric racism. You probably have noticed that Daro'Xen is my favourite character, and I was extremely disappointed in ME2 and 3 that we are only given very few token oppourtunites to show support for her despite tons of options (or non options, in the case of forced autodialouge)  to criticize and call her insane even though her methods for attaining control of the geth aren't nearly as mad science as TIM's or Rael'Zorah's, and actually achieve a degree of success in isolation (without Reaper code, the geth in their current form are destroyed by the quarian assault, but much of their technology remains intact and could be easily reactivated with new software). I'd really wished there'd been a path that acquired both geth and quarian support in the war via supporting Xen's methods, perhaps tying in to what you do with Legion/Project Overlord in ME2 (give the option to sell the former to Xen's flotilla instead of Cerberus, or have the quarians somehow acquire the data from Cerberus's tests on it and from the latter project in ME2 if you make certain choices).

My primary issue with the endgame Control option is the stupid WBE mind upload crap. I've no incentive to kill myself just so a synthetic VI facsimile of my neural architecture that will in no way think as I do (and is therefore completely unpredictable, and highly dangerous) can run the Reapers and enslave the galaxy. If it were simply the Catalyst handing control of the Reapers over to the organics in general, I'd have less issue provided we could set up a half decent government to give the orders first. I wouldn't want to hand them over to the racist oligarchy that is the Council, for example, so they could use them to intensify their oppression of political enemies like the krogan, rachni and quarians while further cementing their dictatorial rule over the other Citadel species.

Synthesis is one of the creepiest and most disturbing things I've ever seen in fiction. Nevermind how unethical it is to impose transhumanist eugenics upon centillions of sentient, sapient beings until the end of time, or postulating about a Cannibal's batarian head talking to the human one grafted into its shoulder or other such Lovecraftian horrors that it creates. Rewriting the very thoughts of people to turn them into unquestioning drones is something straight out of Zamyatin's We or Orwell's 1984, but at least in those works there was a small ruling class that was benefiting from the situation (unlike in synthesis where everyone and everything is affected by the new psychosis), and the humans in them (despite intense attempts by their governments to control their thoughts) at least had enough free will left for D-503 and Winston to rebel (if unsucessfully). Moreover, the writers of those works intended us to see those oppressive regimes as repugnant, whereas ME writers intended Synthesis to be seen as the ideal endstate of advanced life.

For all the talk of being an deliberate insult to the people asking for a 4th path, Refuse isn't all that bad. It pays a massive cost in all of the MW's current species being harvested and destroyed, but the next cycle does succeed somehow, and whether or not their synthetics survive with them and without imposing galactic dictatorship or creepy green mind control as people were asking for is left open to interpretation.

[Iakus]

Symbiosis may be, but even that life will likely adapt to meet a chaotic environment.

Synthesis FTW

If life continues to adapt, it has not reached it's final evolution.

 

Because there is no "final evolution" The Catalyst doesn't know what it's talking about

 

None of the Above FTW!

[Elhanan]

If life continues to adapt, it has not reached it's final evolution.
 
Because there is no "final evolution" The Catalyst doesn't know what it's talking about
 
None of the Above FTW!

Evolution and adaptation are different concepts, I believe. But as the symbiotic organic and synthetic life forms would have greater knowledge of this than myself, go with their recommendation.

Synthesis FTW

[Natureguy85]

 

 

I didn't have thematic issues with Control, as it was there as an option that you could support more or less at various points in the trilogy (particularly ME2 and its Collector Base decision). To be honest, I agreed with TIM in principle if not for in his hilarious, over the top unsafe and unethical mad science methods and blatant humanocentric racism. You probably have noticed that Daro'Xen is my favourite character, and I was extremely disappointed in ME2 and 3 that we are only given very few token oppourtunites to show support for her despite tons of options (or non options, in the case of forced autodialouge)  to criticize and call her insane even though her methods for attaining control of the geth aren't nearly as mad science as TIM's or Rael'Zorah's, and actually achieve a degree of success in isolation (without Reaper code, the geth in their current form are destroyed by the quarian assault, but much of their technology remains intact and could be easily reactivated with new software). I'd really wished there'd been a path that acquired both geth and quarian support in the war via supporting Xen's methods, perhaps tying in to what you do with Legion/Project Overlord in ME2 (give the option to sell the former to Xen's flotilla instead of Cerberus, or have the quarians somehow acquire the data from Cerberus's tests on it and from the latter project in ME2 if you make certain choices).

My primary issue with the endgame Control option is the stupid WBE mind upload crap. I've no incentive to kill myself just so a synthetic VI facsimile of my neural architecture that will in no way think as I do (and is therefore completely unpredictable, and highly dangerous) can run the Reapers and enslave the galaxy. If it were simply the Catalyst handing control of the Reapers over to the organics in general, I'd have less issue provided we could set up a half decent government to give the orders first. I wouldn't want to hand them over to the racist oligarchy that is the Council, for example, so they could use them to intensify their oppression of political enemies like the krogan, rachni and quarians while further cementing their dictatorial rule over the other Citadel species.

Synthesis is one of the creepiest and most disturbing things I've ever seen in fiction. Nevermind how unethical it is to impose transhumanist eugenics upon centillions of sentient, sapient beings until the end of time, or postulating about a Cannibal's batarian head talking to the human one grafted into its shoulder or other such Lovecraftian horrors that it creates. Rewriting the very thoughts of people to turn them into unquestioning drones is something straight out of Zamyatin's We or Orwell's 1984, but at least in those works there was a small ruling class that was benefiting from the situation (unlike in synthesis where everyone and everything is affected by the new psychosis), and the humans in them (despite intense attempts by their governments to control their thoughts) at least had enough free will left for D-503 and Winston to rebel (if unsucessfully). Moreover, the writers of those works intended us to see those oppressive regimes as repugnant, whereas ME writers intended Synthesis to be seen as the ideal endstate of advanced life.

For all the talk of being an deliberate insult to the people asking for a 4th path, Refuse isn't all that bad. It pays a massive cost in all of the MW's current species being harvested and destroyed, but the next cycle does succeed somehow, and whether or not their synthetics survive with them and without imposing galactic dictatorship or creepy green mind control as people were asking for is left open to interpretation.

 

 

 

You're right that you could be more in favor of it in ME2, but my problem is that Shepard is very much against it in the previous scene with TIM, stating Humanity isn't ready.

 

Synthesis is the worst of the endings, which is interesting because it's clearly written to be the best. People like Elhanan will fall for the flowery language and hopeful tone without really thinking of the disturbing implications or how much Synthesis vomits in the face of the rest of the series.

 

You would enjoy the "All were thematically revolting" article in my signature.

[Natureguy85]

No it was clearly stated in game that Ilos was a planet that as soon as they realized the Reapers would win were put into a total black out. Specifically to prevent the Reapers from finding them. Making them think it was just a dead planet. There were tons of stasis pods on Illos. But only a handful of top scientists survived because of the strain on the power supply. Taking hundreds of years for the Reapers to finally finish and leave. It is only after they are awakened do they risk sending a message out through the beacons. Not sure if anyone would be left and possibly risking gaining Reaper attention. But feeling they had to just in case there were survivors.

 

What you are thinking about is Javik's attempt to do the same thing. Which ended much differently because the Reapers knew about Eden Prime. Also Normandy and it's crew are special enough already.

 

Yes, the facility went dark, but they had ways of acquiring information, such as the Beacons. Whether that happened during or after the Harvest, I'm not sure, but the fact remains that Vigil knows what happened.

[Monica21]

Yes, the facility went dark, but they had ways of acquiring information, such as the Beacons. Whether that happened during or after the Harvest, I'm not sure, but the fact remains that Vigil knows what happened.

Yeah, Ilos can't have been completely dark because how would Vigil know to keep shutting down pods, or when to defrost the scientists? There had to have been a way to keep track, not probably the specifics of Reaper movement, but of whether or not they were still even in the galaxy.

[Thriff]

"Your new platform is inefficient. It has low-volume hydraulics and is top-heavy."
Legion to EDI.

Mass Effect 3 exposes Edi-Normandy & Cora body wear Reaper skeleton.
It surrounds Shepard, human avatar between Reaper core & Reaper heart.
Shepard sets EDI front and center, a Saren revival, & EDI prefers Traynor.
Like Kasumi, Legion simulates death, travels through Tali to Major Keats.

Destruction is choice of Shepard: Samara; Legion; Grunt.
Control goes to Miranda: Kasumi Goto; Mordin Solus; Zaeed.
Synthesis for IFF Reaper core [father]: Garrus Vakarian; Jacob; Thane.
No choice by Human Reaper heart [child]: Liara; Subject Zero; Tali.

Four simultaneous time loops occur. Shepard chooses own landing point.
Father and child are propelled together into the future & remain isolated.
Shepard to Legion. Miranda 40 million years back ends Leviathan species.
Halt on organic pain & despair makes eezo rare: hunger & death like Drell.

"I see your humor heuristics still lack an expert system."
EDI to Legion.

Omega 4 for James [Aralak company]: Shepard, Samara, Legion & Grunt.
Human EDI for specialist Traynor [Miranda company]; 2 kids with James.
Anderson to Joker. His murder restores Shepard to male-female balance.
Mental copy as good as original: Nihlus to Kaidan, Shepard sends to Joker.

"Thank you, Shepard. I will try to find a more convenient docking point next time."
EDI to Shepard.

Horizon Reaper swarm infected Traynor & Williams. Hackett gets Williams.
Straight female Shepard shields up Traynor [Zero, Kasumi, Mordin & Zaeed].
Prostitute Liara corrupts Tali. Traynor [Miranda] loves Shepard [Tali stamp].
Major Keats [Shepard] & Miranda get London house, two kids & retriever dog.

"Moreover, I am not one of those recent philosophers for whom confinement
within four walls merely helps us attain the ultimate in human freedom."
Jacques Lacan, Ecrits, Logical Time and the Assertion of Anticipated Certainty:
A New Sophism (1945), 'Sophistic Value of this Solution', Norton, p. 161.

The Crucible enables Reaper creation, if Shepard had Liara or Thane romance.
On Thessia, Shepard spreads Williams over Asari & Tali ['hang on'] onto Liara.
Lately, moderators must be sealed: Tali-Reegar, Liara-Samara, Garrus-Victus.
Nihlus covers Cortez, Miranda over Traynor; James is sent back to Normandy.

Miranda switched on love; Shepard indoctrinates the Illusive Man to a suicide.
As on Tuchanka, Miranda & Shepard were maw hammers to call a reaper clash.
Yet Joker proposed alternative weapons: time travel & teaching love to Reapers.
Some EDI time loops eternally return; Captain Riley faces the next tour of duty.

Total Military Strength: 14 320. Destruction dissolves the uncreated Catalyst.
Harbinger promotes the Crucible, plans for Shepard isolation on Citadel, fails.
EDI made Normandy IFF identical to Reaper code & Shepard linked to them all.
Geth Reaper improved platforms survive, just like EDI-Traynor, also Williams.

 

It is illuminating the Reaper cores [IFF & Heart] take care to avoid their synthesis.

[gothpunkboy89]

Yes, the facility went dark, but they had ways of acquiring information, such as the Beacons. Whether that happened during or after the Harvest, I'm not sure, but the fact remains that Vigil knows what happened.

 

Beacons were specifically stated to only react to organic bodies not synthetic. A set up done by the Protheans either during or before the war against the Reaper. Other wise Sovereign could have just sent a few Geth units down to activate it. Instead he as Saren who at the time was 100% organic compared to his later upgrades.

 

So how could a VI operate a Beacon that is set up to only interact with organic being? Even if they had other QE communicators that only works point to point. Which means if it is destroyed regardless of how long it is till the Reapers are done with a planet it would seem like it was gone. Any other form of communication would be distributed by Reaper attacks or would allow the Reaper's to trace that data back to their hidden compound.

 

No. Most likely the information on the planet was destroyed during initial attack. When Reapers were shown to be winning they retreated to Illos programed the VI then went into statis. The VI using data from the scientist and support staff. Who would naturally be a bit shaken up by the Reaper's power. Charted an expected time table for the Reapers to finish the harvest. Only finding as it went on it lacked the power to keep everyone online.  Then when the dozen top scientiest were thawed out they sent a message though the beacon network in hopes the Reapers were gone and that there were some survivors out there. Which is were ME1 with Shep comes into play.

[dorktainian]

Destroy FTW because it destroys reapers.

[Quarian Master Race]

You're right that you could be more in favor of it in ME2, but my problem is that Shepard is very much against it in the previous scene with TIM, stating Humanity isn't ready.

 

Synthesis is the worst of the endings, which is interesting because it's clearly written to be the best. People like Elhanan will fall for the flowery language and hopeful tone without really thinking of the disturbing implications or how much Synthesis vomits in the face of the rest of the series.

 

You would enjoy the "All were thematically revolting" article in my signature.

Fair enough. I think the mere existence of choices like that and individuals like Xen and TIM serves as sufficient foreshadowing that such an ideology could be possible (albiet the practitioners of this ideology are clearly implied to be flawed by the narrative and therefore unable to do so for one reason or another). That Shep was against it simply means the character wasn't fully developed in regard to that plot thread, and didn't have the information to see it as possible at that point, which isn't much different than ME1 Sheps almost automatically considering synthetics to be "just machines" while later ones can be slavishly robosexual toaster hugging neo hippies all they want (and literally every Shepard is required to accept that at least EDI deserves some moral consideration by ME3, no matter how Renegade you go). I do agree that the bratalyst declaring the neural architecture of some ignorant infantry grunt who lacks any college education and thought asari needed other species to reproduce to be worthy of becoming omnipotent galactic dictator, when other, far more intelligent/ educated organic individuals like TIM aren't to be entirely arbitrary, and yet another example of Shepard's plot reinforced Mary Sue-ishness.

No argument there. Synthesis is repugnant and the death of diversity itself no matter which way you attempt to slice it. Its the only ending that manages to end up actually worse for life than the actual Reaper harvests themselves.

Yeah, it's nice to read some informed criticism of the ending. The only part I disagree with to an extent there is its a-priori conclusion that synthetics were life forms comparable to the organics in terms of moral consideration. While the writers clearly intended to push what he's describing as a theme, they went about it so poorly and nonsensically that you can't really make any such conclusion at all. According to the ME3 writers "alive" is defined for a synthetic solely by swallowing some magic Reaper code or green synthesis garbage and essentially becoming a different being entirely (because they weren't "alive" before). Both Legion/VI and EDI follow this same logic, elucidating via their own admission that they are by definition not real life forms until writer fiat declares them to be so. The concept of synthetic personhood was explored so poorly that essentially any interpretation we can follow is thematically valid, from the misanthropic self hating organic who intentionally kills every organic species they can and then picks synthesis, to the Kyle Reese aping anti-AI Luddite who destroys the geth solely out of spite and picks Destroy simply because it's the only option that definitely fries all the toasters they missed.

[Monica21]

No. Most likely the information on the planet was destroyed during initial attack. When Reapers were shown to be winning they retreated to Illos programed the VI then went into statis. The VI using data from the scientist and support staff. Who would naturally be a bit shaken up by the Reaper's power. Charted an expected time table for the Reapers to finish the harvest. Only finding as it went on it lacked the power to keep everyone online.  Then when the dozen top scientiest were thawed out they sent a message though the beacon network in hopes the Reapers were gone and that there were some survivors out there. Which is were ME1 with Shep comes into play.

There is a lot of information Vigil wouldn't know if all it did was monitor statis pods. Vigil knew how the worlds had been cut off, that some populations had been enslaved and indoctrinated, that sleeper agents had betrayed other Protheans in hiding to the Reapers, that the indoctrinated were the ones who stripped the worlds and not the Reapers, and that only then did the Reapers leave. The Protheans on Ilos never visited other planets to get this information, because they had no way to get there. The only thing they could do was use the Conduit to go to the Citadel and sabotage the Keepers.

So yes, there had to have been some way information was gathered during the last harvest.

[StarcloudSWG]

Evolution and adaptation are different concepts, I believe.

 

Gramatically correct and conceptually incorrect.

 

Evolution is the process of adaptation to an environment that a species undergoes over succeeding generations in order to improve the chances of survival and reproduction.

 

This process does not, and cannot stop, just because everything is glowing green in the Synthesis ending. Therefore the Catalyst is telling a falsehood, that Synthesis is the 'final evolution' of life.

[Elhanan]

Gramatically correct and conceptually incorrect.
 
Evolution is the process of adaptation to an environment that a species undergoes over succeeding generations in order to improve the chances of survival and reproduction.
 
This process does not, and cannot stop, just because everything is glowing green in the Synthesis ending. Therefore the Catalyst is telling a falsehood, that Synthesis is the 'final evolution' of life.

Or perhaps the Catalyst means that the symbiosis is the final stage of organic & synthetic life, but the new form will now begin to adapt to an ever changing environment. In any event, beats Destruction and having to re-visit the same problems again.

[StarcloudSWG]

"But the new form will now begin to ADAPT to an ever changing ENVIRONMENT."

 

The process of adapting to an environment over time is called evolution.

 

Since mortality is NOT removed by synthesis, this adaptation takes place over generations.