2612 réponses à ce sujet

[gothpunkboy89]

There is a lot of information Vigil wouldn't know if all it did was monitor statis pods. Vigil knew how the worlds had been cut off, that some populations had been enslaved and indoctrinated, that sleeper agents had betrayed other Protheans in hiding to the Reapers, that the indoctrinated were the ones who stripped the worlds and not the Reapers, and that only then did the Reapers leave. The Protheans on Ilos never visited other planets to get this information, because they had no way to get there. The only thing they could do was use the Conduit to go to the Citadel and sabotage the Keepers.

So yes, there had to have been some way information was gathered during the last harvest.

 

 

Which would also line up with said Prothean scientists and support staff fleeing the invasion to Illos in an attempt to hide after the Reapers shown they couldn't be stopped by the Protheans. I don't care how smart someone is they witness the equivalent of the nuke dropped on Japan in WW2. They will always double the destructive forces and havoc created. 

 

Virgil couldn't use the Beacon Network because Protheans would never give VI's or any synthetics the ability to access the network. As a left over from Metacon Wars and the fight against the Reapers.

 

Though I did just re watch the entire Vigil chat. The scientists and support staff were on Ilos when the Reapers first invaded. The data about their planet was destroyed during the attack on the Citadel. After the initial attack communication and transport was crippled across the empire. Effectively isolating each system on their own. Since they couldn't communicate or reach each other. Not though direct use of Citadel locking down all Relays. It really doesn't go into any way shape or form how it kept track of the Reaper invasion. The other information would be easy to get access to if one of the scientist when sending out the warning also recived all the other info sent out by other beacons. Who could then rely that information to Vigil for the next cycle.

 

But yea kind of a plot hole on how it actually kept track of the Reapers despite the facility going dark specifically to avoid attracting their attention.

[Elhanan]

"But the new form will now begin to ADAPT to an ever changing ENVIRONMENT."
 
The process of adapting to an environment over time is called evolution.
 
Since mortality is NOT removed by synthesis, this adaptation takes place over generations.

Not over time, but through use of other means. The new Synthetic lifeform will have access to intel to bypass and overcome hazards much like EDI was able to avoid cosmic storms.

[gothpunkboy89]

No argument there. Synthesis is repugnant and the death of diversity itself no matter which way you attempt to slice it. Its the only ending that manages to end up actually worse for life than the actual Reaper harvests themselves.

 

 

Disagree. Synthesis is the merging of organic and synthetic into a single body. Arguably the very point we are aiming at now. Far more noticeable in the form of prosthetic. You know rather then just giving them a hook and calling it good. Attempting to create artificial body parts that respond and move just like normal ones.

 

Unless synthesis rewrites everyone's DNA to be exactly the same there is no loss in diversity on the genetic level. Nothing in game hints that reproduction has changed. Still seems to require 1 male and 1 female  or 1 asari and 1 other to create a child. Nothings states that this is changed. That ever bit of DNA is altered to be exactly the same.

 

If you aren't talking about pure genetic diversity then you also have to consider after the alteration the definition of diversity would have to change.  What might seem as the same to us from our perspective would be different to them and their perspective of things. There are smaller examples of that in our own history. Go back 200 years and their definition of communication wouldn't fully match up with our abilities. Heck that old stand by stereotype of the old person who just complains kids these days do nothing but sit alone on their computer or spend all their time on their phones rather then interacting with other people. Ignores the fact that while on the computer or phone they are capable of interacting with dozens to hundreds of people across the globe. 

 

Because they were never a part of that generation that grew up like that it seems to the older set like the younger people are all the same rather then the individuals they are use to because of the change in how people can and do communicate.

 

You can not see what it is really like on the other side of a stone wall. You can only stand there and guess.

[Dantriges]

Yeah a pretty good question how Vigil kept track. As far as we know the protheans had no FTL sensors and super observatories that can observe what happened somewhere probably didn´t cut it.

 

Seems the beacon network is the most likely possibility, listening passively. Perhaps it wasn´t a standard procedure, OTOH the protheans entrusted the VI with their lives, granting Vigil the control over the stasis pods and the authorization to cut off life support when deemed necessary.

[themikefest]

If the vigil was able to know what it tells Shepard, wouldn't it of known about the crucible? Most likely not, but just curious.

[Quarian Master Race]

Disagree. Synthesis is the merging of organic and synthetic into a single body. Arguably the very point we are aiming at now. Far more noticeable in the form of prosthetic. You know rather then just giving them a hook and calling it good. Attempting to create artificial body parts that respond and move just like normal ones.

 

Unless synthesis rewrites everyone's DNA to be exactly the same there is no loss in diversity on the genetic level. Nothing in game hints that reproduction has changed. Still seems to require 1 male and 1 female  or 1 asari and 1 other to create a child. Nothings states that this is changed. That ever bit of DNA is altered to be exactly the same.

 

You can not see what it is really like on the other side of a stone wall. You can only stand there and guess.

Who is the "we", you're referring to that are aiming for this? Yourself and those with a likeminded ideology. Though I'm all for cybernetic and other technological augmentation of the organic body to increase its capablities, I've no desire to rewrite my own DNA, play with my neural architecture and kill my previous consciousness (which is what Synthesis does, given the way it alters the very nature and thought processes of organics), nor do I think I have the moral authority to unilaterally decide those sorts of things for centillions of sentient, sapient beings until the end of time.

It does exactly that. The energy of the Crucible is combined with Shepard's "organic energy" (whatever the frell that means) to create "a new framework, a new DNA" for every organic lifeform in the galaxy down to at least plantae. It is objectively a loss in diversity. Whether or not you think the relative amount is justifiable is up to your system of morality. Mine doesn't, because there was no need to get rid of said diversity in the first place unless you ascribe moral rights to toasters (I don't) and therefore don't want to simply control and destroy them with the Crucible every time they rebel for the rest of history.

Precisely, which is why I would not cross that stone wall without first devising a means of gathering sufficient information on what is on the other side, as it could be anything. I certainly wouldn't jump headlong onto the other side/into the beam with almost zero elucidation as to what the nature of the other side even is.

[Elhanan]

Who is the "we", you're referring to that are aiming for this? Yourself and those with a likeminded ideology. Though I'm all for cybernetic and other technological augmentation of the organic body to increase its capablities, I've no desire to rewrite my own DNA and kill my previous consciousness (which is what Synthesis does, given the way it alters the very nature and thought processes of organics), nor do I think I have the moral authority to unilaterally decide those sorts of things for centillions of sentient, sapient beings until the end of time.

It does exactly that. The energy of the Crucible is combined with Shepard's "organic energy" (whatever the frell that means) to create "a new framework, a new DNA" for every organic lifeform in the galaxy down to at least plantae. It is objectively a loss in diversity. Whether or not you think the relative amount is justifiable is up to your system of morality. Mine doesn't, because there was no need to get rid of said diversity in the first place unless you ascribe moral rights to toasters (I don't) and therefore don't want to simply control and destroy them with the Crucible every time they rebel for the rest of history.

Precisely, which is why I would not cross that stone wall without first devising a means of gathering sufficient information on what is on the other side, as it could be anything. I certainly wouldn't jump headlong onto the other side/into the beam with almost zero elucidation as to what the nature of the other side even is.

But you would accept the other options presented from the same source? Perhaps the Star Child should have simply used a page from Bugs Bunny and switched the signs on the other outcomes.

[gothpunkboy89]

Yeah a pretty good question how Vigil kept track. As far as we know the protheans had no FTL sensors and super observatories that can observe what happened somewhere probably didn´t cut it.

 

Seems the beacon network is the most likely possibility, listening passively. Perhaps it wasn´t a standard procedure, OTOH the protheans entrusted the VI with their lives, granting Vigil the control over the stasis pods and the authorization to cut off life support when deemed necessary.

 

The Protheans programmed the VI to cut off power as it did.  The difference between VI's and AI's at least in game universe is VI's are incapble of creating their own ideas. So to speak. They can only work within their programming. So a Prothean would have had to program that responds to cut off power like that for it to be able to do it

[Dantriges]

Yeh, so programming it to listen into broadcasts would be different how? They trusted their programming to keep the VI from going Hal on them in their defenseless state.

[gothpunkboy89]

Who is the "we", you're referring to that are aiming for this? Yourself and those with a likeminded ideology. Though I'm all for cybernetic and other technological augmentation of the organic body to increase its capablities, I've no desire to rewrite my own DNA, play with my neural architecture and kill my previous consciousness (which is what Synthesis does, given the way it alters the very nature and thought processes of organics), nor do I think I have the moral authority to unilaterally decide those sorts of things for centillions of sentient, sapient beings until the end of time.

It does exactly that. The energy of the Crucible is combined with Shepard's "organic energy" (whatever the frell that means) to create "a new framework, a new DNA" for every organic lifeform in the galaxy down to at least plantae. It is objectively a loss in diversity. Whether or not you think the relative amount is justifiable is up to your system of morality. Mine doesn't, because there was no need to get rid of said diversity in the first place unless you ascribe moral rights to toasters (I don't) and therefore don't want to simply control and destroy them with the Crucible every time they rebel for the rest of history.

Precisely, which is why I would not cross that stone wall without first devising a means of gathering sufficient information on what is on the other side, as it could be anything. I certainly wouldn't jump headlong onto the other side/into the beam with almost zero elucidation as to what the nature of the other side even is.

 

We as in humanity which you are a part of. If ever the cybernetic enhancement even the rather over the top version out of Metal Gear Rising: Revengance type stuff. Every government that could create soldiers like that would do it in a heart beat. If the world was offered a more realistic Ghost in the Shell style upgrade. Even the most basic one like Togusa has they would take it.

 

If you want to be technical every single child born rewrites DNA. Hence why we each have our own DNA sequence and why it can be used to identify suspects in crimes. Like wise cancer is a form of DNA alteration. Cells reproducing endlessly rather then just replacing older dead ones then stopping. Changing how it is created and what makes it up doesn't remove diversity. As long as reproduction is formed by combining the DNA of two parents diversity of DNA will remain.

 

Altering how the nature of thought process again isn't striking me as bad. I need only look at the history and logic used not only by humans but even by known information about the other races in ME universe to see the logic used and how their thought processes were used came up short. Seriously how many people have died in the past due to lets say less then intelligent thoughts? How many times did a single/group of ass holes manipulate large sums of people to kill others because they think they are doing their God's work? How many people have suffered from violence simply because to another group they were different. And in the aggressor's mind them being different is bad? Do you not know the almost borderline torture humanity has pulled on people with mental disabilities? Seriously up to the 70's it was legal for the state to medically castrate any mentally handicapped person. I can't even comprehend that kind of fucked up logic.

 

Human history past and present is so full of **** up idiotic logic it proves without a shadow of a doubt there is no God in any form. Because no divine deity would put up with the sheer amount of stupid bullshit we have pulled. Hell there are days I wish we were fire bombed from existence for the stupid bullshit we pull. So if you are going to use a point against synthesis. Then changing the fundamental way we think isn't the best reason to go with. Because the fundamental way we think has lead to pain, suffering, violence and death more times then anyone can count. And even in the ME universe nothing seems to have changed.

 

Moral authority is a weak and sad argument. No one has the moral authority to even make the conscious choice to try to have a child with their wife/partner. Heck you don't even have the moral authority to decide to spay/neuter your cat. Moral authority is such a weak argument because it varies day to day and hour to hour. What gives judges the moral authority to give people their punishments? Because a bunch of other people decided he was a bad guy? What gives them the moral authority to decide that?  A dictator killing anyone who dares question his rule feels he has the moral authority to do so. The guy on the other side of the world reading about the acts feels it is within his moral authority to claim that it is wrong to be done. Who is correct?  What gives you the moral authority to come to that conclusion?

 

New frame work doesn't mean everything is going to be the same. That is your interpretation of it. Again altering how it forms doesn't mean it will all form the same way. Evolution is based on altering how DNA forms to create new creatures who's useful traits get passed on while less useful ones die off.  Human and chimps are very similar in many ways. How ever our DNA is vastly different. Incompatible to the point that even though we both reproduce the same way there is no way for a human/chimp hybrid to ever be born.  Our DNA is different due to the different evolutionary paths taken. Altering the DNA of both species as we evolved to the point they are incompatible with each other.

 

The problem is you can not comprehend what is on the other side. It is like plucking someone from Ancient Mesopotamia and dropping them into modern day and expecting them to understand everything. Things would change in so many ways you wouldn't be able to make the claim of it being correct or not. The rules that exist for chess don't exist for checkers. And that is in a nut shell what synthesis would do. Alter the game from chess to checkers.

 

So you sitting at your chess board. Having only ever played chess. It is all you know all you understand. Then someone puts a game of checkers next to you. You can't call any rules on it. You can't decide the winner or loser of the game because you fundamentally don't under stand it.

[gothpunkboy89]

Yeh, so programming it to listen into broadcasts would be different how? They trusted their programming to keep the VI from going Hal on them in their defenseless state.

 

 

Wasn't HAL suppose to be an AI of sorts?

 

Listening to broadcasts has issues. 1. they seem to communicate more with beacons that seem to act like quantum entanglement communicators. 2. It was clearly stated that Reapers disrupted the communication system in the empire when they attacked. 3. The only other way to listen in would be radio waves and those would take hundreds if not thousands of years to cross the distances of space.

[Natureguy85]

Beacons were specifically stated to only react to organic bodies not synthetic. A set up done by the Protheans either during or before the war against the Reaper. Other wise Sovereign could have just sent a few Geth units down to activate it. Instead he as Saren who at the time was 100% organic compared to his later upgrades.

 

So how could a VI operate a Beacon that is set up to only interact with organic being? Even if they had other QE communicators that only works point to point. Which means if it is destroyed regardless of how long it is till the Reapers are done with a planet it would seem like it was gone. Any other form of communication would be distributed by Reaper attacks or would allow the Reaper's to trace that data back to their hidden compound.

 

No. Most likely the information on the planet was destroyed during initial attack. When Reapers were shown to be winning they retreated to Illos programed the VI then went into statis. The VI using data from the scientist and support staff. Who would naturally be a bit shaken up by the Reaper's power. Charted an expected time table for the Reapers to finish the harvest. Only finding as it went on it lacked the power to keep everyone online.  Then when the dozen top scientiest were thawed out they sent a message though the beacon network in hopes the Reapers were gone and that there were some survivors out there. Which is were ME1 with Shep comes into play.

 

I never said the VI operated it, though they could have set it to automatically download info to Vigil. Anyway, the Prothean scientists would have checked when they woke up. Again, I don't know how they knew the info Vigil gives Shepard, but for the purpose of the story, they did.

[Dantriges]

Wasn't HAL suppose to be an AI of sorts?

 

Listening to broadcasts has issues. 1. they seem to communicate more with beacons that seem to act like quantum entanglement communicators. 2. It was clearly stated that Reapers disrupted the communication system in the empire when they attacked. 3. The only other way to listen in would be radio waves and those would take hundreds if not thousands of years to cross the distances of space.

 

It was another word for going rogue, killing them in stasis. Seems the VI-AI divide is quite fluent at times. The Zha´Til were VIs, the Geth, too and Project Overlord used a VI as synthetic component. The prothean VIs don´t seem to be so limited as Avina for example.

It seems the beacons had some sort of general broadcast system, IIRC the scientists sent their Reaper warning to every beacon still existing. 

perhaps in general, dunno, Vigil and even Javik seemed well informed at times.

It´s just guessing, Vigil was well informed but how the VI got the info, well your guess is as good as mine. Probably the writers didn´t spend much time on it and thought of it as a minor point.

[Thriff]

At all events, a final Rachni victory is by far the simplest explanation.

EDI body was an animated machine but Normandy is Reaper Rachni.

It plans organic delivery, requires 3 bodies: Shepard, Traynor, James.

Rachni organic quantum entanglement can bypass the Citadel beam.

 

Miranda showed that the Catalyst uses paternal lockdown as a shielding.

Shoot Anderson enables Subject Zero leap to Shepard; Traynor despairs.

Subject Zero sees Illusive man die. Reaper salvation through destruction.

Dark energy channels time travel so Geth hosts Reaper civilian refugees.

Shepard gets transfer to N7 Captain Riley, entangled when lending mate.

Queen Traynor quantum listens for her princess & hears her love is alive.

[gothpunkboy89]

It was another word for going rogue, killing them in stasis. Seems the VI-AI divide is quite fluent at times. The Zha´Til were VIs, the Geth, too and Project Overlord used a VI as synthetic component. The prothean VIs don´t seem to be so limited as Avina for example.

It seems the beacons had some sort of general broadcast system, IIRC the scientists sent their Reaper warning to every beacon still existing. 

perhaps in general, dunno, Vigil and even Javik seemed well informed at times.

It´s just guessing, Vigil was well informed but how the VI got the info, well your guess is as good as mine. Probably the writers didn´t spend much time on it and thought of it as a minor point.

 

 

Actually VI and AI divide is quite strong. Zah and Overlord used VI to boost the capacity of an organic mind and to allow it to interface with tech on a direct level. Geth were VI programs who could network to increase their processing power. As well as programmed with the ability to observe and learn to make them more efficient at their task. When enough with those traits networked together their processing power and programmed traits create an AI.

 

Prothean VI's are more advanced then Avina. Also had different programs as Avina is simply a directory. Vigil and Vendetta how ever were created to be much more. But given Javik's complete dislike for any AI. Both of them would be highly restricted in their programming capabilities. If TIM can do the same to EDI who is a full AI and yet shackle her so much. I'm sure the Protheans could do the same thing to a VI.

[Dantriges]

So your point was? There is no danger, they just didn´t do it?

[StarcloudSWG]

Wasn't HAL suppose to be an AI of sorts?

 

HAL 9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey was indeed a full AI. But the problem that made HAL go crazy wasn't that they didn't trust him. It was that they didn't trust the *astronauts* and gave HAL a ton of hidden directives that he was supposed to keep from the crew.

 

Basically, the military command went behind NASA's back, and loaded HAL up with paranoid contingency directives including spying on the crew and making sure they didn't sabotage the mission. At the same time, HAL was wired to share information freely and trust the crew. The programming conflict is what drove HAL to murder. It was the only way to resolve the programming conflict. If there were no astronauts aboard, there would be no need to spy, keep information hidden, and no way to sabotage the mission.

 

A similar situation happens with the Catalyst. The Leviathan build the damn thing, then give it poorly defined and contradictory programming. "Preserve life at all costs. Prevent synthetics from destroying organics." And then didn't bother to define a few key terms, making the Catalyst develop definitions of its own.

 

So in the end, it was a synthetic that destroyed organics, but rationalized that it wasn't destroying organics because the tools it was using weren't 'actually' synthetics, and because it wasn't destroying all sapient life the moment it emerged, it rationalized that it wasn't destroying them all.

 

Except the Reapers are most definitely synthetics, robots programmed with a facsimile of organic minds, indoctrinated and shackled to the Catalyst's control, and loaded with the memories of the dead. And the Catalyst most definitely *was* destroying all organic life. Just not all at the same time.

[Dantriges]

I know the backstory but well that isn´t really widely known. I just picked HAL because he killed the crew in cold sleep and we were talking about a VI watching over organics in stasis.

[Sezarious]

5 minutes, 12 seconds in:

https://m.youtube.co...h?v=77PNj0e_Iyk

Catalyst: "I embody the collective intelligence of all reapers"

Like I said before, as a staltwart Destroy supporter, this makes EVERYTHING else the catalyst says irrelevant. NOTHING the reapers say can be verified. Using pure logic with THAT particular point, deconstructs every opposing argument. Now, whilst this does not change the fact that you have no way of knowing if it is telling the truth about the destroy option working, then they have won anyway regardless of choice.

Once again, the catalyst IS the reapers, soooo, why the HELL would you even CONSIDER believing ANyTHING it says in the first place? Again this has nothing to do with whether it is good/evil/neutral, but it is the collective consciousness of ALL your reaper enemies! Enemies which have consustently used MANIPULATION as a weapon as well as their firepower! And you're going to trust it at the eleventh hour JUST when it realises you have the power to destroy it? F- off you reaper bastard. Don't try and tell me ANYTHING because you have NO credit.

[Elhanan]

5 minutes, 12 seconds in:

https://m.youtube.co...h?v=77PNj0e_Iyk

Catalyst: "I embody the collective intelligence of all reapers"

Like I said before, as a staltwart Destroy supporter, this makes EVERYTHING else the catalyst says irrelevant. NOTHING the reapers say can be verified. Using pure logic with THAT particular point, deconstructs every opposing argument. Now, whilst this does not change the fact that you have no way of knowing if it is telling the truth about the destroy option working, then they have won anyway regardless of choice.

Once again, the catalyst IS the reapers, soooo, why the HELL would you even CONSIDER believing ANyTHING it says in the first place? Again this has nothing to do with whether it is good/evil/neutral, but it is the collective consciousness of ALL your reaper enemies! Enemies which have consustently used MANIPULATION as a weapon as well as their firepower! And you're going to trust it at the eleventh hour JUST when it realises you have the power to destroy it? F- off you reaper bastard. Don't try and tell me ANYTHING because you have NO credit.

Because without it, Shepard would not have the opportunity to make any choice, as he would have died near Anderson.

[Sezarious]

I disagree. What you are arguing there is an assumption and a side track from a very clear fact. You CAN'T TRUST your enemy. Any guess on how the game developers would end the game if they didn't have the 4 choice ending there is a guess. I could argue they may have just sent you up there to push the big red button just as easily as end it with Shepard dying with Anderson. ASSUMPTION.

Two FACTS:

1. The catalyst is "The collective intelligence of all reapers". It admits to this (see the link above)

2. Aside from indoctrination, the reapers and their agents are always using heavy manipulation tactics to get what they want throughout the game.

There is no other choice BECAUSE of these points. The evidence is actually there. The evidence being that there just ISN'T enough evidence to support the other endings without taking a leap of faith.. You CANNOT trust the catalyst in the first place. It IS the reapers. Trust it and you trust the reapers. The other choices are IRRELEVANT because of their source. You're letting the reapers give you alternatives, but these PROVEN manipulators could NEVER be trusted in the first place. Destroy is the only ending UINFLUENCED by your SWORN ENEMIES.

You can always change your decision! It's not too late!

[Reorte]

if you want to be technical every single child born rewrites DNA. Hence why we each have our own DNA sequence and why it can be used to identify suspects in crimes. Like wise cancer is a form of DNA alteration. Cells reproducing endlessly rather then just replacing older dead ones then stopping. Changing how it is created and what makes it up doesn't remove diversity. As long as reproduction is formed by combining the DNA of two parents diversity of DNA will remain.

A child isn't re-writing DNA. New child, new (combination of) DNA. Cancer is, of course, and guess what? People don't want to get cancer.
 

Altering how the nature of thought process again isn't striking me as bad. I need only look at the history and logic used not only by humans but even by known information about the other races in ME universe to see the logic used and how their thought processes were used came up short.

Sure it has, but the idea of imposing that on someone is completely and utterly repugnant that it very, very definitely falls into the "thought processes coming up short" category. Convince people to change their views, sure. Physically prevent them from carrying out acts if reallly necessary, but change who the person is? You need to be right at an extreme point, dealing with someone who is really well past normal behaviour to even consider that, and even then it would be horribly controversial. Apply it to everyone? No greater crime has ever been considered.

The problem is you can not comprehend what is on the other side.

Which is a very good argument for not even considering it at this point.

If you want to rewrite yourself then go ahead, I'm fine for people to decide what they want to do with their own bodies. But when you try to force that on me...

[Natureguy85]

The problem is you can not comprehend what is on the other side. It is like plucking someone from Ancient Mesopotamia and dropping them into modern day and expecting them to understand everything. Things would change in so many ways you wouldn't be able to make the claim of it being correct or not. The rules that exist for chess don't exist for checkers. And that is in a nut shell what synthesis would do. Alter the game from chess to checkers.

 

So you sitting at your chess board. Having only ever played chess. It is all you know all you understand. Then someone puts a game of checkers next to you. You can't call any rules on it. You can't decide the winner or loser of the game because you fundamentally don't under stand it.

 

So you can't possibly make an informed decision then, can you? This is precisely why not to do Synthesis.

 

 

A child isn't re-writing DNA. New child, new (combination of) DNA. Cancer is, of course, and guess what? People don't want to get cancer.

 

I wouldn't even call Cancer "rewrite". Among other things it's the "Stop" command on the replication breaking.

[Elhanan]

I disagree. What you are arguing there is an assumption and a side track from a very clear fact. You CAN'T TRUST your enemy. Any guess on how the game developers would end the game if they didn't have the 4 choice ending there is a guess. I could argue they may have just sent you up there to push the big red button just as easily as end it with Shepard dying with Anderson. ASSUMPTION.

Two FACTS:

1. The catalyst is "The collective intelligence of all reapers". It admits to this (see the link above)

2. Aside from indoctrination, the reapers and their agents are always using heavy manipulation tactics to get what they want throughout the game.

There is no other choice BECAUSE of these points. The evidence is actually there. The evidence being that there just ISN'T enough evidence to support the other endings without taking a leap of faith.. You CANNOT trust the catalyst in the first place. It IS the reapers. Trust it and you trust the reapers. The other choices are IRRELEVANT because of their source. You're letting the reapers give you alternatives, but these PROVEN manipulators could NEVER be trusted in the first place. Destroy is the only ending UINFLUENCED by your SWORN ENEMIES.

You can always change your decision! It's not too late!

But Destroy is also an option presented by them, so if this were the case, none of the choices presented can be trusted. In which case I will choose the answer that pleases me. And look at that; was right again!

[gothpunkboy89]

A child isn't re-writing DNA. New child, new (combination of) DNA. Cancer is, of course, and guess what? People don't want to get cancer.
 
Sure it has, but the idea of imposing that on someone is completely and utterly repugnant that it very, very definitely falls into the "thought processes coming up short" category. Convince people to change their views, sure. Physically prevent them from carrying out acts if reallly necessary, but change who the person is? You need to be right at an extreme point, dealing with someone who is really well past normal behaviour to even consider that, and even then it would be horribly controversial. Apply it to everyone? No greater crime has ever been considered.
Which is a very good argument for not even considering it at this point.

If you want to rewrite yourself then go ahead, I'm fine for people to decide what they want to do with their own bodies. But when you try to force that on me...

 

If I take a program and I alter how it works even if I kept it fundamentally the same so it looked and behaved differently even though it is still the same program code. It would be considered rewriting the program.

 

My dear sweet naive person if people were really capable of change. Truly capable of realizing X or Y action is bad. After what 9,000 most likely even more years of civilization and society. Do you really think society would be in the state it is today? People killing others in mass because the form of deity worship they follow is different then their own. Going into church to murder people just because they don't like the color of their skin.  How about just because they played their music to loud out side a  7/11 or how about stabbing your boyfriend because he farted on you.

 

This isn't even getting into the studies that show the human brain is actually pretty stupid. It plays a lot of fill in the blanks. As well as not always seeing a lot. There is a rather funny...I want to say physiological test though maybe something else out there. Anyways the test is they walk up to a random person and ask for directions. Another group of people walk between them with with a large door or plywood sheet. They then switch out the person asking for directions with someone else. Dressed in the exact same cloths. Only about 40% of people noticed the switch out. The rest didn't notice it till after it was pointed out.

 

Oh so you are fine with people cutting themselves? Creating addictions to not just drugs but other things. Which cause issues for any family members/loved ones? I mean I always thought bulimia and anorexia were pretty stupid. Something that only a true idiot would do and I really have no sympathy for them. I can still recognize the negative effect their personal choices have on other people. Even if their choices don't directly effect those people because it is only their body. So making the naive claim what someone does to themselves is fine because it doesn't effect others is just that naive.