2619 réponses à ce sujet

[Sezarious]

I still disagree you guys. I know what you are saying, that because destroy is presented by the catalyst, it could represent any ending, but WITH or WITHOUT its input, your aim should not have changed.

Whether it's legitimate or not, the destroy ending IS more appealing, because it is in allignment with what you wanted to do all along. The other options= Nothing more than indoctrination.

I guess it doesn't matter. The ending you chose along with the Shepard 'Dream sequence', probably ONLY determined your Shepard's survival.

This is why they'll start in Andromeda. They'll either just obscurely refer to the firing of the citadel 'stopping' the reaper threat, or they'll refer to it as the destruction of the reapers, or they'll talk about the defeat of the reapers with a massively united fleet, or Andromeda will actually star Shepard and Bioware were lying again. Given their track record, who knows what they're planning.

The whole ending thing is just a mindf-&@/ though at the end of the day i guess. After players screeming for some clarification, the fact that the company still left the obscurity of what is left after, brandishing the idea that 'Players just want to be able to say goodbye', that was clearly deliberate.

They Knew what we wanted, but they're saving the clarification for their next game. You'll see. I don't like this constant arguing, but i can't damn-well help myself. It truly has spilt out into the real world much like religious factions bickering over which religion is going to get you to the afterlife and what that is going to be like. We will find out more soon enough.

[Iakus]

And how do you justify making that decision for a galaxy? How do you justify "Shepard Knows Best"?

It cannot be forced.

 

Except by Shepard 

[Elhanan]

I don't want a space marine making the decision to rewrite my DNA for me. So that answer I definitely know.

Or eradicate other forms of life, and strand everyone to current locations until repairs can be made without synthetics to help. Or Dominate them by ascending to a non-corporeal form and steward over all life.

I still prefer the Synthesis option, and you will know why when it occurs.

[Reorte]

The reason I ask this question is because Synthesis and Control are the two options where Shepard isn't just deciding that the Reapers won't be around anymore. Yes, you're on the spot and you're the decision-maker because circumstance put you there, but Destroy is the only option you have that allows the rest of life in the galaxy to evolve and change in whatever way they choose. Both Control and Syntheses are forced utopias. Synthesis is the worst of the two because you're deciding for all of galactic life that you're going to rewrite their DNA without their knowledge or consent.

Oh, I agree with you on why they're bad choices to make, but I can't help thinking that if there was some magic button I could press that would change things in the world today to be how I think they should be I might very well press it (depends exactly what it did of course, I wouldn't if it was something Synthesis-like even if that achieved my other goals). Therefore I'd be a hypocrite to have a go at someone doing something similar. I'd happily call them every bad name I could think of for what they did though.

I'd object to your post rather more strongly if I didn't thoroughly agree on picking Destroy

[Dani86]

Would  people who watch their friends and family members killed while their communities are destroyed make that choice?

 

Destroy FTW

 

Revenge aside, if this were a real life choice, almost everyone would choose destroy. Would people really choose to change their loved ones into some robo-monster hybrid with so little information? Think about your kids, your spouse, the people you love the most. Would you *really* take the risk of control or synthesis or would you just destroy the monsters that were threatening your loved ones, regardless of the collateral damage? All these philosophical discussions are fun but most animals (humans included) tend to act predictably and emotionally when faced with a threat. IMO, because of all the previous discussions regarding why the Catalyst used failed logic in creating the reapers to begin with, the answer to the original question is no and the emotional solution most would take is destroy as well.  

[Natureguy85]

And Destroy is only unappealing if you have lower EMS and put robots on the same level as people. One reason I pick Destroy is that the story never made me care about the Geth or AIs generally, but only EDI and Legion specifically, and Legion is always dead at that point.

[Monica21]

Oh, I agree with you on why they're bad choices to make, but I can't help thinking that if there was some magic button I could press that would change things in the world today to be how I think they should be I might very well press it (depends exactly what it did of course, I wouldn't if it was something Synthesis-like even if that achieved my other goals). Therefore I'd be a hypocrite to have a go at someone doing something similar. I'd happily call them every bad name I could think of for what they did though.

I'd object to your post rather more strongly if I didn't thoroughly agree on picking Destroy

 

And the bolded part is where we'll have to disagree. Your idea of what things should be could differ greatly from what I think things should be. All I have to do is look at the current state of U.S. politics to cast a pretty lengthy side-eye at what "should be." 

 

So, talking about the Reapers, if the worst you do is make people start from scratch by choosing Destroy, at the very least they're starting over with full knowledge and consent of the direction they're taking. It's not like, Suprise! You're part computer! Or, Surprise! Shepard is God! You're still giving everyone a choice, good or bad, of the direction their future lies. My strong opposition is against making that decision for everyone. Destroy is a forced choice, but it's the least manipulative of the three.

 

Do we disagree? I'm not sure we fundamentally do.

[Natureguy85]

Oh, I agree with you on why they're bad choices to make, but I can't help thinking that if there was some magic button I could press that would change things in the world today to be how I think they should be I might very well press it (depends exactly what it did of course, I wouldn't if it was something Synthesis-like even if that achieved my other goals). Therefore I'd be a hypocrite to have a go at someone doing something similar. I'd happily call them every bad name I could think of for what they did though.

I'd object to your post rather more strongly if I didn't thoroughly agree on picking Destroy

 

I know you said it depends on what the change is, but be careful what you wish for...

 

[MisterJB]

Because I want to be a GOD!

 

"Eternal, Infinite, Immortal."

[Iakus]

Because I want to be a GOD!

 

"Eternal, Infinite, Immortal."

Except you don't become a god.  You burn and die.

 

At best, you gave birth to a god (for a given value of "god"), and died in the process.

[themikefest]

You don't become a god. The former human named Shepard becomes a thing just like the thing that was telling  Shepard that he/she will die to become a thing

 

Destroy FTW

[Brunobyof]

I didn't choose destroy because it would be simply dumb. I mean, Leviathans have been watching the organics evolve, create synthethics and apprimorate them until they rebel against their creators and therefore the leviathans created the catalyst to prevent organics from dying, which in the other hand has created the Reapers to make a cyclical solution that has been occuring for tens of thousands of years.

 

So choosing destroy would change absolutely nothing. The catalyst could create the reapers again. And even if he didn't, the synthetics would eventually overcome the organics and end with us all making this decision the worst possible. You would actually end the possibility of humans and organics to evolve more and more because they would all die eventually. At least this is what all the story proposes and the logical sense of things. But in a hipothetical situation one couldd say that by destroying the reapers all organics would be free to fight against the sinthetics and stand up the rebellion surviving for many many years to come. But this would make synthetics just a "mistake" from organics.

 

Choosing control would eventually lead to the same fate because shepard would be forced to use the reapers to destroy the synthetics eventually. But this still wouldn't be a positive ending because theres no evolution in it. Its a desperate measure that only postpone the inevitable.

 

Synthesis on the other hand, appeared to me as the perfect solution because both reapers, synthetics and organics can live more, can live better, can live togheter, can live forever and being most capable than ever to continue their seek through the universe.

The question i have been wondering is WHY NOT PICK THE SYNTHESIS ending?

Maybe you're afraid of being transcended into a more evolved state?

Or maybe you feel that synthetics are crap and organics should never have created them?

[Natureguy85]

I didn't choose destroy because it would be simply dumb. I mean, Leviathans have been watching the organics evolve, create synthethics and apprimorate them until they rebel against their creators and therefore the leviathans created the catalyst to prevent organics from dying, which in the other hand has created the Reapers to make a cyclical solution that has been occuring for tens of thousands of years.

 

So choosing destroy would change absolutely nothing. The catalyst could create the reapers again. And even if he didn't, the synthetics would eventually overcome the organics and end with us all making this decision the worst possible. You would actually end the possibility of humans and organics to evolve more and more because they would all die eventually. At least this is what all the story proposes and the logical sense of things. But in a hipothetical situation one couldd say that by destroying the reapers all organics would be free to fight against the sinthetics and stand up the rebellion surviving for many many years to come. But this would make synthetics just a "mistake" from organics.

 

Choosing control would eventually lead to the same fate because shepard would be forced to use the reapers to destroy the synthetics eventually. But this still wouldn't be a positive ending because theres no evolution in it. Its a desperate measure that only postpone the inevitable.

 

Synthesis on the other hand, appeared to me as the perfect solution because both reapers, synthetics and organics can live more, can live better, can live togheter, can live forever and being most capable than ever to continue their seek through the universe.

The question i have been wondering is WHY NOT PICK THE SYNTHESIS ending?

Maybe you're afraid of being transcended into a more evolved state?

Or maybe you feel that synthetics are crap and organics should never have created them?

 

The Catalyst is gone if you choose Destroy.

 

The reason you don't choose Synthesis is because it is the magical solution to a problem that wasn't present until the Catalyst brought it up in the last scene of the game. Destroying the Reapers solves the problem that has been present since the first game. That's actually the best summary I can think of, really.

Because of that, Synthesis spits in the face of the themes of the series, which I identify as "strength through diversity" and "self-determination."
 

The Reapers are bad and have no redeeming qualities. They need to go away.

[Bowlcuts]

I didn't choose destroy because it would be simply dumb. I mean, Leviathans have been watching the organics evolve, create synthethics and apprimorate them until they rebel against their creators and therefore the leviathans created the catalyst to prevent organics from dying, which in the other hand has created the Reapers to make a cyclical solution that has been occuring for tens of thousands of years.

 

So choosing destroy would change absolutely nothing. The catalyst could create the reapers again. And even if he didn't, the synthetics would eventually overcome the organics and end with us all making this decision the worst possible. You would actually end the possibility of humans and organics to evolve more and more because they would all die eventually. At least this is what all the story proposes and the logical sense of things. But in a hipothetical situation one couldd say that by destroying the reapers all organics would be free to fight against the sinthetics and stand up the rebellion surviving for many many years to come. But this would make synthetics just a "mistake" from organics.

 

Choosing control would eventually lead to the same fate because shepard would be forced to use the reapers to destroy the synthetics eventually. But this still wouldn't be a positive ending because theres no evolution in it. Its a desperate measure that only postpone the inevitable.

 

Synthesis on the other hand, appeared to me as the perfect solution because both reapers, synthetics and organics can live more, can live better, can live togheter, can live forever and being most capable than ever to continue their seek through the universe.

The question i have been wondering is WHY NOT PICK THE SYNTHESIS ending?

Maybe you're afraid of being transcended into a more evolved state?

Or maybe you feel that synthetics are crap and organics should never have created them?

The Catalyst is illogically wrong about the organic/synthetic conflict. What was that I did for two hours on Rannoch? Oh, that's right, uniting the created with their creators, so that's false. Also it was the Quarians who engaged the Geth first last time I checked (inb4 QMR) so the creators attacked the created. It was apparent that the cycle was different, as you may have saw.

 

The only good thing about the Reapers is their technology. I prefer the mindset of evolving on our own because that's organics nature (another reason I don't pick Synthesh*t) so, Reapers are history. Don't want any kind of giant robotic cuttlefish who slaughtered my best friends around, that's for sure.

On the contrary, Synthesis was the devils overall ideal, just painted with a different brush. Also, who am I to decide to ascend my fellow organics into a new state of of being? I let mother nature take care of that. Even Javik said that his cycle crippled because of the lack of diversity, and the reapers used it against him.

 

If synthetics rise up again and rebel, we will pay the price and resolve it like we've always done. No need for us to have to pay the price of some stupid one-sided cuttlefishes who decided it was their duty to keep order over organics. My Shepard was an N7 Soldier, my mission was clear; rid the galaxy of the threat of the reapers. 

[Dantriges]

Why is the word "evolution" always showing up? It´s not a force with an always upwards direction and we have genetic engineering and cybernetic enhancement. 

There are probably other ways to achieve a "higher" state of being.

[Bowlcuts]

Why is the word "evolution" always showing up? It´s not a force with an always upwards direction and we have genetic engineering and cybernetic enhancement. 

There are probably other ways to achieve a "higher" state of being.

Those ways don't involve stupid Space magic that we don't fully understand.

Destroy FTW

[Elhanan]

Those ways don't involve stupid Space magic that we don't fully understand.
Destroy FTW

As opposed to synthetic life, psionic domination, Prothean beacons, thermal clips, Mass Relays, biotics, hair tentacles, etc, etc, etc....

For the Galaxy of Shepard, Synthesis is the win.

[Bowlcuts]

As opposed to synthetic life, psionic domination, Prothean beacons, thermal clips, Mass Relays, biotics, hair tentacles, etc, etc, etc....

For the Galaxy of Shepard, Synthesis is the win.

If that's your headcanon then go ahead, I won't argue with it. As much as I love the Geth I don't have any intention of a Geth Prime trying to get in bed with me.

I made my point already.

[LineHolder]

There are times when you can do all the (pseudo) intellectual and philosophical mind-wringing over certain concepts but doing it on something like Synthesis is the biggest insult I can think of to intellectual and philosophical thought.

 

How the **** do you imbue organics with machine 'DNA' and imbue machines with organic 'DNA' throughout the whole galaxy by a wave of light?

 

I'm no biologist or a robotics expert but I'm sure there is no ****** basis for even thinking about it, imagination or no.

[Elhanan]

If that's your headcanon then go ahead, I won't argue with it. As much as I love the Geth I don't have any intention of a Geth Prime trying to get in bed with me.
I made my point already.

Your point appears to be the acceptance of part of the lore while tossing what is disliked. When all is accepted, I choose synthesis, as synthetic life is extant in the series.

[Sezarious]

Your point appears to be the acceptance of part of the lore while tossing what is disliked. When all is accepted, I choose synthesis, as synthetic life is extant in the series.

Genuine question here. Because i'm trying to understand those who picked synthesis instead.

IF it turned out that they canonise the endings in a certain way with ME Andromeda, with Synthesis and Control as indoctrination endings, how will you feel? Would you be really pissed off? Would you feel cheated? Lets say it alsio comes out in copies of older documents that this was their plan all along?

[Elhanan]

Genuine question here. Because i'm trying to understand those who picked synthesis instead.

IF it turned out that they canonise the endings in a certain way with ME Andromeda, with Synthesis and Control as indoctrination endings, how will you feel? Would you be really pissed off? Would you feel cheated? Lets say it alsio comes out in copies of older documents that this was their plan all along?

Whatever canon Bioware has is fine with me; doesn't stop me from my own imaginations.

[themikefest]

For the Galaxy of Shepard, Synthesis is the win.

For the galaxy of Shepard and all its inhabitants, Destroy is the win.

[Monica21]

Genuine question here. Because i'm trying to understand those who picked synthesis instead.

 

This is probably going to sound ruder than I mean it to, but I don't think there's much to understand about people who choose Synthesis. My imagination is that these are the first guys in line for wearable tech and always have to have the newest smartphone. There's no recognition, or even understanding, that there are solar systems filled with sentient, organic life who aren't Shepard and who would at least go, "Eh? You're gonna do what?" when Shepard decides to take a swan dive. But none of those voices get heard partly because yes, circumstance puts Shepard in the room, but also partly because it's a stupid decision to even have.

[Elhanan]

For the galaxy of Shepard and all its inhabitants, Destroy is the win.

Only for those that survive....

Synthesis FTW