2602 réponses à ce sujet

[gothpunkboy89]

Again, there is no hypocrisy. You don't understand the argument. Liara tells us from the beginning that the Crucible "could wipe out the Reapers." Now, this isn't explained how and we don't know what it specifically does, but she's pretty confident about her conclusion. I don't like that these details are hidden from Shepard and we don't ever get to investigate or learn about it, but the writers for ME2 and ME3 decided against the illusion of freedom and agency that the first game presented. Shamus Young talks about it in this post:

 

No one knows what it does because it has never been used. Finding plans created by a different race without knowing what it does it is only a guess up to the point you actually craft it. And I still state right now I didn't read very much by that person in the link. Because the bit I did read didn't really show someone who paid attention to the game series.

 

Lines like:

An ambulatory full AI, which even the Geth have only recently mastered!

And Eva was invented not by a government or by one of the more advanced species, but by a human terrorist organization.

 

Geth have had fully function bodies capable of movement like Eva since the Morning War 200 years before. EDI was created by the same group. So building on their success and knowledge of EDI and their study of the Geth during Project Overlord. The creation of Eva isn't a surprise at all.

 

However, assuming the Catalyst is telling the truth about which does what, I do know what it means to Destroy the Reapers where I don't really know what Synthesis entails because it's so vague. And I don't like what I do get.

 

It rather clearly explains synthesis and what it entails. The only difference is synthesis is a slightly more complex ending while destroy is extremely simplistic. Control is the middle of the two in terms of complexity. Synthsis in it's purest form is technology over coming the weakness of the organic body to improve it. Much like the synthetic parts in Shepard's body helped him over come the human body's limitations up to and including atmospheric reentry and death it's self.

 

Most of your history touches on things before the Revolution, not the Revolution itself. Your comments on Washington are way off base. I don't think you understand what it entails for a group of colonies to fight the most powerful military force on the face of the Earth.

 

Cause and effect my friend cause and effect. Revolution looks a lot less valiant when you realize it was the equivalent of being asked to help pay for a check to the dinner you just shared then hulking out and flipping the table.  If my statements about Washington is off then please do tell all the great victories he brought the Revolution.  Britain wasn't that powerful as history books would make you think. There were only so many soldiers in the British Army. Spread out across so many places. And that isn't even including the distance. A boat full of 5,000 strong would take at least a month if not longer to reach the colonies.  They were also less familiar with the terrain and still fought by the old timey rules of war.  Killing an officer wasn't that common or expected. How ever the Revolutionaries had no problem with targeting the leaders of the army.

 

As for equal rights, yeah, it took time to get there. You act as though those issues were unique to the United States though, which is completely false. Societal change like that takes time, and sometimes even war. But I'm not surprised your ignorance goes beyond Mass Effect.

 

But no other place at the time was preaching about all men are created equal.  UK abolished slavery in 1833 though Parliament.  US abolished slavery in 1865 after a multi year war that left millions dead. US only beat UK with women's suffrage by a couple of years.  But the British Government did not forum under the rally cry that all men are created equal.

[gothpunkboy89]

That's not the actual story. It's just the unverifiable claim of the Catalyst. Like the Reapers generally, it is an unwanted solution to a non-problem.

 

Already been over this with you. Leviathan DLC supports this claim. 

 

That only proves that some technology can be good.

 

I just used medical technology because it is the most obvious. Increased understanding of metallurgy has helped create metal and thus buildings that are stronger then ever. Understanding aerodynamics, structural integrity, fuel consumption efficiency, development of new light weight but very strong materials. Is how we get planes that are bigger then previous generations of them and yet at the same time more fuel efficient.

I tend to travel a fair amount by plane. The Dreamliner compared to the previous planes. Which were the previous model is a big improvement in a lot of ways.

 

 You need to read more, either stories or about writing fiction. Late infodumps are not proper backstory, particularly when they don't fit with what other elements of the story tell or show us. Leviathan is optional and was added to try and jam in some build up for the Catalyst. Unfortunately, because it was made later, this was obvious to everyone so it didn't come off very well.

 

Late info dumps how ever are still valid. They fall into the same set up as duce ex machina. Used to solve an unsolvable plot point. By no means do you have to like that being pulled. But you can't discount the information provided to you just because you don't like how it was presented. As for fitting in with the other elements of the story it actually does. From the first introduction of Sovereign it is displayed the Reapers don't just kill for the lolz and because there is nothing to do on saturday night. That there is a reason behind their actions. ME2 sets it up as Reapers needing specific species to perform their equivalent of reproduction. Depending on the order you play it in the Reaper on Rannoch sets the stage. Leviathan fills in the blanks and the AI at the end answers all the remaining questions.

 

Leviathan was added later because it was DLC. That is kind of how DLC works. DLC supplementing or expanding the story line is exactly what DLC should do in a single player game.  Leviathan, Omega and even Citadel added to the game's over all story. Expanding or creating a little new story in the over all set up of the game.  The fact you appear to hold this in contempt is baffling. Do you prefer the DLC set up like the fire walker? You know were you land on a planet. Spend about 5 minutes on it then leave. With the whole DLC set up not having any meaningful effect on the story line at all.

 

No, because we acknowledge that and don't care. The Catalyst may be right, but we will figure that out. We don't want his stupid Reapers or his stupid Synthesis.

 

So millions if not billions of deaths are validated because you think the AI is a big stinking doodie head.

[Iakus]

Zah was a failed one. I'm pretty sure any scientific endeavor ends in failure once or twice or more often. Look up on youtube you can find countless fails during the early days of aviation. Look up the Red Baron's plane and laugh at the ineptitude of how they designed it. With the radiator right above the pilot so one stray bullet and the pilot would be sprayed with scalding hot liquid.

 

Yet military power is heavily defined by air superiority. Plane flights are a multi billion dollar industry.  But you wouldn't think that when you learn about the early days of aviation.

So what makes this incarnation of Synthesis :ideal"  Why is this version proof against being perverted from its intent?

[StarcloudSWG]

If anything, the biggest conceptual problem with Synthesis is that the Catalyst AI is still part of the network and now has root access to ALL the brains.

 

That's why I always say synthesis is basically turning every sapient and non sapient being into a Reaper, because it's plugging *every organic being* into the Reaper network. And who's in charge of the Reaper network? Who has root admin access to all processes running on the Reaper network? The Catalyst.

[gothpunkboy89]

So what makes this incarnation of Synthesis :ideal"  Why is this version proof against being perverted from its intent?

 

Because thanks to the catalyst providing the energy linking it though the Citadel and the Relay network would allow even near instantaneous change across the entire galaxy at once. Shepard's energy in the stream alters the very basis of how things will evolve. If the previous set up was 101010101010101010101010 in and endlessly repeating cycle. The new set up is now 101101011010110.

 

The pattern changes all problems associated with the previous pattern now change as well.

 

The AI is also able to distribute the same upgrades and advantages that Reaper's normally have as perfect hybrids between synthetic and organic being. Minus indoctrination ability.

 

Previous attempts never solved it at it's core. Only treating the symptoms of the issue.

[Iakus]

Because thanks to the catalyst providing the energy linking it though the Citadel and the Relay network would allow even near instantaneous change across the entire galaxy at once. Shepard's energy in the stream alters the very basis of how things will evolve. If the previous set up was 101010101010101010101010 in and endlessly repeating cycle. The new set up is now 101101011010110.

 

That is....

 

...complete and utter nonsense.

 

"Shepard's energy?"  Really?  

 

And because it affects everyone at once, that's better how?  Wouldn't that just make it easier for a galactic pandemic should this new 'evolution" be hacked like what the reapers did to the zha'til?

 

 

 

The pattern changes all problems associated with the previous pattern now change as well.

 

Changes them to what? Something better? Something worse?  Do they go away?  rendered moot?  What the hell happened?  

 

And what about new problems introduced by this "new pattern"?

 

 

 

The AI is also able to distribute the same upgrades and advantages that Reaper's normally have as perfect hybrids between synthetic and organic being. Minus indoctrination ability.
Previous attempts never solved it at it's core. Only treating the symptoms of the issue.

Where the HELL did all this come from?  The Catalyst didn't mention any of this.  

[Iakus]

If anything, the biggest conceptual problem with Synthesis is that the Catalyst AI is still part of the network and now has root access to ALL the brains.

 

That's why I always say synthesis is basically turning every sapient and non sapient being into a Reaper, because it's plugging *every organic being* into the Reaper network. And who's in charge of the Reaper network? Who has root admin access to all processes running on the Reaper network? The Catalyst.

 

Wait you don't trust someone who controlled a creature who's tagline was "Assuming direct control"?  

[gothpunkboy89]

That is....

 

...complete and utter nonsense.

 

"Shepard's energy?"  Really?

 

In a game were the main technological set up is the complete suspension of normal physics to allow FTL speed. Were the main character comes back from the dead after not only being dead for months. But after impacting the surface from an orbital reentry. Were the main antagonist of the series literally reduces organic being into a liquid form before using the various components of their body to craft a new version of themselves. And this is were you draw the arbitrary line in the sand?

 

And because it affects everyone at once, that's better how?  Wouldn't that just make it easier for a galactic pandemic should this new 'evolution" be hacked like what the reapers did to the zha'til?

 

Zha were fundamentally different. They applied AI's to their existing physical bodies.  They were still organic by nature. If they reproduced it would create a child without said implants. That would then need to be added to them. The AI's could be hacked but you can't hack an organic mind. Synthsis you are shown to be clearly organic but with technology advancing beyond the limitations of organics.

 

There is also the fact that unless said tech is able to remotely connect with something it can't really be hacked. If I set up a desk top computer and never connect it to the internet. It can not be hacked unless someone physically sits in front of it. During synthesis ending both Krogan and Human are shown using blue prints to show how stuff would be build. This shows they can not remotely access each other's mind.

 

At that point it would already be easy. Miranda on ME2 made the suggestion they implant something in Shepard's mind to control his actions. So that is an issue independent of synthesis ending.

 

Changes them to what? Something better? Something worse?  Do they go away?  rendered moot?  What the hell happened?  

 

And what about new problems introduced by this "new pattern"?

 

Better. The pattern that leads to synthetic and organic conflict won't happen now.  Will this result in ever lasting peace? No one can know for sure. How ever the Reapers are now at peace with the galaxy freely sharing their collected information.  The greater information is gained hopefully the greater the chance for extended peace. At least to the point there are not all out conflicts. Synthesis doesn't state that everyone will for now and forever hold hands singing kumbaya.

 

Where the HELL did all this come from?  The Catalyst didn't mention any of this.  

 

That is actually my attempt to rationalize it without the over use of the word space magic. Then again any technology advanced enough would seem like magic to someone who doesn't understand what is going on.

 

You also missed the point. Giving everyone the same techno organic advantages the reapers have is not the same as indoctrination nor actually creating a reaper. Unless you also consider everyone who has a smart phone as being brain washed and controlled.

[Iakus]

 

In a game were the main technological set up is the complete suspension of normal physics to allow FTL speed. Were the main character comes back from the dead after not only being dead for months. But after impacting the surface from an orbital reentry. Were the main antagonist of the series literally reduces organic being into a liquid form before using the various components of their body to craft a new version of themselves. And this is were you draw the arbitrary line in the sand?

 

Actually, it isn't.  Have you been around when I railed against the Lazarus Project?  The giant smoothie machine in the Collector Base?

 

What's amazing about Synthesis is it's ability to eclipse these things in sheer silliness.

 

 

 

 

Zha were fundamentally different. They applied AI's to their existing physical bodies.  They were still organic by nature. If they reproduced it would create a child without said implants. That would then need to be added to them. The AI's could be hacked but you can't hack an organic mind. Synthsis you are shown to be clearly organic but with technology advancing beyond the limitations of organics.

There is also the fact that unless said tech is able to remotely connect with something it can't really be hacked. If I set up a desk top computer and never connect it to the internet. It can not be hacked unless someone physically sits in front of it. During synthesis ending both Krogan and Human are shown using blue prints to show how stuff would be build. This shows they can not remotely access each other's mind.
At that point it would already be easy. Miranda on ME2 made the suggestion they implant something in Shepard's mind to control his actions. So that is an issue independent of synthesis ending.

 

Unlikely.  Javik said the Reapers subverted the zha'til to turn their organic bodies and turn them into "synthetic monsters" indicating they did have some control over the physical bodies (made more likely because the zha implanted themselves in the first place because their home world was becoming inhospitable)  

 

And again, if organics now have technological bits stuck on them, doesn't that make them easier to hack?  besides which, if krogan under a bloodthirsty warlord like Wreav are making nice with other races, doesn't that imply they are already hacked, and being forced to play nice?  

 

 

 

Better. The pattern that leads to synthetic and organic conflict won't happen now.  Will this result in ever lasting peace? No one can know for sure. How ever the Reapers are now at peace with the galaxy freely sharing their collected information.  The greater information is gained hopefully the greater the chance for extended peace. At least to the point there are not all out conflicts. Synthesis doesn't state that everyone will for now and forever hold hands singing kumbaya   

The "pattern" is the existence of organics and synthetics in the first place.  Of course there won't be conflict between the two because they have ceased to exist!

 

Dogs and cats will stop fighting if you genetically splice them together to become a third species.  But I wouldn't say you "solved" anything.  As for knowledge:  Did war stop when the krogan were uplifted?  Did humans stop fighting when they joined the galactic community?  No, increased knowledge does not stop conflict.  It changes it, changes what is fought over, who allies and enemies are, but war is as natural a state of being as peace.  Erasing the concept of "organic" and synthetic" won't stop conflict unless the process screws with their free will.

 

 

 

 
That is actually my attempt to rationalize it without the over use of the word space magic. Then again any technology advanced enough would seem like magic to someone who doesn't understand what is going on.
You also missed the point. Giving everyone the same techno organic advantages the reapers have is not the same as indoctrination nor actually creating a reaper. Unless you also consider everyone who has a smart phone as being brain washed and controlled.

I dunno, have you seen some people with their smartphones?  

 

At any rate, smartphones, and even wearable technology, is not built into our DNA.  We can put it down and walk away from it if we wished.  The people of the galaxy, to quote Adam Jensen "Never asked for this"  It was forced on them, because apparently organics are not worthy of existence in the eyes of the Reapers.  So yeah, in that sense they are being "controlled'

 

Not everyone wants these "advantages"  Not everyone wants to be part machine.  There are people who like who and what they are.  Are proud of it, even.  Are you going to tell them they need to be "fixed"?

[rossler]

Nothing was forced with synthesis. The kid even says so:

 

It's not something that can be forced. You are ready and you may choose it.

 

He presents the choice, but you can reject synthesis by not jumping into the beam. You can also reject control by walking over to the far right platform and destroying the Reapers. Or refuse all of them is there too.

 

None of these choices are forced.

[StarcloudSWG]

Once Shepard chooses Synthesis, however, OTHER PEOPLE are FORCED into Synthesis.

 

You know. Other people. Like Joker. He doesn't get a choice. Hackett doesn't get a choice. EDI doesn't get a choice. Garrus, Liara, Tali, Wrex, Grunt, Jack, Javik, they don't get a choice.

 

Synthesis gets FORCED on them if Shepard chooses it.

 

By the Catalyst's own declaration, then, Synthesis fails as a solution to the 'problem'. Unless it isn't what the Catalyst claims it is.

 

Ultimately, you have to remember: the Catalyst is an unreliable narrator and has an agenda of its own. That agenda is still, and always will be, turning things into Reaper creatures.

[Dantriges]

Yeah a bit hard to agree to a procedure you are unaware of that it exists when it is performed.

[rossler]

You can still pick something else if you feel it is forced.

 

Ultimately, you have to remember: the Catalyst is an unreliable narrator and has an agenda of its own. That agenda is still, and always will be, turning things into Reaper creatures.

 

Well that's what the Reapers have been doing the entire game. It's not news.

 

Synthesis is an ideal solution to the Reaper's problem. The game even says as much.

 

Once everyone is converted into Reapers, the conflict ends and the Reapers have won.

[gothpunkboy89]

Actually, it isn't.  Have you been around when I railed against the Lazarus Project?  The giant smoothie machine in the Collector Base?

 

What's amazing about Synthesis is it's ability to eclipse these things in sheer silliness.

 

If you object to silliness then you shouldn't even be a fan of this game series. From game 1 there is silliness abound in it. An entire race of female that reproduce by connecting to another one or another species's nervous system to randomize DNA. Humans being able to control dark energy though implants on their back if exposed to Ezo in the womb. An entire race that can literally adapt to not breathing.  And advanced construct can avoid detection or any knowledge of it's existence for thousands of years. But can't ambush a single frigate in a previous undiscovered system when it is the only thing that could hamper it's plans. With it having access to an enter fleet of ships. Shepard not recognizing right away that the Illusive Man has the same eyes as a husk.  That Shepard's team is so great it can wade into areas that normally kill entire regiments of troops and walk way with only minor wounds. That a team of 12 can hold off literally the entire collector base trying to kill them. Geth race of synthetic AI's developing religious like action when exposed to the Reapers. And it is made very clear later that the Reaper was not in direct control of them making them worship it.

 

Unlikely.  Javik said the Reapers subverted the zha'til to turn their organic bodies and turn them into "synthetic monsters" indicating they did have some control over the physical bodies (made more likely because the zha implanted themselves in the first place because their home world was becoming inhospitable)  

 

And again, if organics now have technological bits stuck on them, doesn't that make them easier to hack?  besides which, if krogan under a bloodthirsty warlord like Wreav are making nice with other races, doesn't that imply they are already hacked, and being forced to play nice? 

 

Experiment failed use as shock troopers. Again this bit is only speculation due to the AI's statement of trying things in the past. But in all fairness Prothean history is a mess. Which is great from an RP PoV in game because it really does make it seem like a culture who's history was lost to the passing of time. But bad from a player perspective because we can't actually know anything.

 

Technology can only be remotely hacked if it is given a way to communicate remotely. Since it was shown that people still had to communicate and use things like blue prints and data pads. Shows there is no remote access.

 

The Wrev example I've seen pop up again and again. And each time I'm surprised by the sheer small minded approach to it. New information or some thougt to the issue. Wrex is against the war because he knew what it would mean to the Krogan and how it would ensure they never recovered. Wrev was blinded by hate. All it takes is a little clarity for Wrev to come to the same conclusion as Wrex. No hacking needed. If Wrex is able to come to this conclusion why would Wrev never be able to? Particularly after his mental abilities were enhanced thanks to synthesis?

 

The "pattern" is the existence of organics and synthetics in the first place.  Of course there won't be conflict between the two because they have ceased to exist!

 

Pattern of development. It is alluded to several times thought the series. The pattern of life and society and their development repeats it's self in a constant cycle. That pattern always ends with conflict with synthetics. Creating a new pattern for life and society to develop along removes that pattern of conflict with synthetics. New problems can come along but that will be for the existing people to face and conquer when it comes up.

 

Dogs and cats will stop fighting if you genetically splice them together to become a third species.  But I wouldn't say you "solved" anything.  As for knowledge:  Did war stop when the krogan were uplifted?  Did humans stop fighting when they joined the galactic community?  No, increased knowledge does not stop conflict.  It changes it, changes what is fought over, who allies and enemies are, but war is as natural a state of being as peace.  Erasing the concept of "organic" and synthetic" won't stop conflict unless the process screws with their free will.

 

But we aren't splicing dog and cat's into a new species. Your statements hold true for all other endings as well. Does destroying the Reapers prevent any conflict from happening? No. Does Controlling the Reapers prevent any conflict from happening. No. Does rejecting the Reapers cause all conflict to stop. No.

 

You seem to be focusing on this ideology that Synthesis stops all conflict for ever and ever. Which is never stated in game nor stated by me. This odd obsession focusing on something never said in game or by anyone is rather odd. Could it be because you are trying to distract the actual point at hand in an effort to cover for your own lack of any valid points?

 

Not to mention you contradict yourself. First claiming everyone is hacked pointing out Wrev. Now you claim it wouldn't stop any fighting after the fact.

 

Can you make up your mind already. Do you want to argue that everyone is secretly hacked into being nice. Or that conflict can still happen.

 

Pick an argument and I will respond to it in full.

 

But lets not forget Asari, Turian, Human, Salarian, Elcor, Volus are still all allies and have been so without blood shed for thousands of years before hand. Bataraians the only trouble some race that isn't Rachni or Krogan are all but gone. Rebuilding would fundamentally alter their social structure. To be a lot less xenophobic since they would rely heavily on the other races to rebuild.  Only the Krogan would represent a possible issue. But Krogan's lack war ships. They have troops and weapons but lack space vehicles. Wrev's actions are very apparent so even post synthesis if he wanted to be an an blood thirsty war monger he wouldn't have much to do. And the krogan could be wiped out from space with orbital bombardments.

 

At any rate, smartphones, and even wearable technology, is not built into our DNA.  We can put it down and walk away from it if we wished.  The people of the galaxy, to quote Adam Jensen "Never asked for this"  It was forced on them, because apparently organics are not worthy of existence in the eyes of the Reapers.  So yeah, in that sense they are being "controlled' 

 

If you want to be technical you are being controlled now in dozens of different waves. All of them are within your head and body. Sexual urges is nature's way of controlling you. Walking out in a dark night you feel yourself more alter to what is going on around you. Is survival instinct kicking in.  And this is just more basic things. If you actually start getting into advertisement and such the web and complexity of how little things can influence your choices is amazing.  The simple act of rhyming things can alter how people agree or disagree with something.  Saying wealth makes health will get more people to agree with you then stating, financial success allows you to be more healthy.

 

And that isn't even counting what I call the parrot effect. Were a statement even one completely false is repeated enough times people being to accept it as truth. You see this most often in politics were someone quotes a statement that is completely false but treats it as if it was 100% verified fact.

 

Not everyone wants these "advantages"  Not everyone wants to be part machine.  There are people who like who and what they are.  Are proud of it, even.  Are you going to tell them they need to be "fixed"?

 

Serial killers, rapist, child molesters, racists, and politicians are proud of who they are.  Doesn't mean they don't need a adjustment.  In fact if you use human history even what just exists from the beginning of recorded history to now. It is very very very clear that we as a species do in fact need a fix.

[Dani86]

 

 

Not everyone wants these "advantages"  Not everyone wants to be part machine.  There are people who like who and what they are.  Are proud of it, even.  Are you going to tell them they need to be "fixed"?

 

Serial killers, rapist, child molesters, racists, and politicians are proud of who they are.  Doesn't mean they don't need a adjustment.  In fact if you use human history even what just exists from the beginning of recorded history to now. It is very very very clear that we as a species do in fact need a fix.

 

Wow. Maybe that is why some people are so into synthesis. They just hate humans and believe that all humans are just inherently evil and should therefore, be forcibly destroyed and turned into something else. Maybe in this view, an evil robot who has killed and tortured trillions of beings for a billion years is still better than your average person and therefore, its will should be followed rather than allowing those even more evil people to decide for themselves what their futures will be. 

[rossler]

And that isn't even counting what I call the parrot effect. Were a statement even one completely false is repeated enough times people being to accept it as truth. You see this most often in politics were someone quotes a statement that is completely false but treats it as if it was 100% verified fact.

 

I've come across a lot of this in my time as a gamer.

[Natureguy85]

But synthetic life is ancient in the lore, and predates Humsn, Turian, Asari, Salarian, Prothean, etc history. So what may be new to use may not indeed be new to older synthetic or organic life. It ain't about meta-gaming info and mechanics; it is accepting a choice made available during the final moments of the game.

 

That's not "Synthesis" as described in the ending. That's synthetic life.

 

 

 

zha implanted themselves with symbiotic AI technology to enhance their intelligence

 

Synthesis is lore. Though that synthesis is most likely a form that failed. Like the AI mention trying several similar set ups but them failing.

 

That's not "Synthesis" as described in the ending.

 

 

I always pick Destroy. Breaking a few robots to defeat the Reapers once and for all? No-brainer. I don't understand why would someone care so much about synthetics that they'll risk everything just to not break AIs. EDI and geth will burn their circuits? Just fix them afterwards. Big deal. It's not like they have a spark like Transformers.

 

Well the game tried to sell you on the idea that Synthetics were people worthy of the same consideration as Organics. The implication is that such a simple rebuild wouldn't be possible. Perhaps all the bits would work but the personality would be lost.

 

 

 

No one knows what it does because it has never been used. Finding plans created by a different race without knowing what it does it is only a guess up to the point you actually craft it. And I still state right now I didn't read very much by that person in the link. Because the bit I did read didn't really show someone who paid attention to the game series.

 

Lines like:

An ambulatory full AI, which even the Geth have only recently mastered!

And Eva was invented not by a government or by one of the more advanced species, but by a human terrorist organization.

 

Geth have had fully function bodies capable of movement like Eva since the Morning War 200 years before. EDI was created by the same group. So building on their success and knowledge of EDI and their study of the Geth during Project Overlord. The creation of Eva isn't a surprise at all.

 

That's not necessarily true. While she wouldn't know if it would actually work, as far as we know when it's introduced, Liara has translated and read the plans and figured out its purpose from that. I believe you didn't read much of the post. Reading is something you've demonstrated you're not good at. Saying he didn't pay attention is the pot callin the kettle black. For example, you apparently missed that it says "full AI", which the Geth are not. Their platforms are also not nearly as advanced as the Eva body.

 

 

It rather clearly explains synthesis and what it entails. The only difference is synthesis is a slightly more complex ending while destroy is extremely simplistic. Control is the middle of the two in terms of complexity. Synthsis in it's purest form is technology over coming the weakness of the organic body to improve it. Much like the synthetic parts in Shepard's body helped him over come the human body's limitations up to and including atmospheric reentry and death it's self.

 

It explains it but we don't know what it means or what it will be like. It says it will combine all organic and synthetic life. That's all it says in the original ending. In the EC, it says this is done by spreading Shepard's "organic energy" and that organics will integrate fully with Synthetic technology. What does that mean? Well maybe it's supposed to leave some room for interpretation, but that's a big jump to take without knowing what you're getting into.  I'll also remind you that Shepard coming back from "atmospheric reentry and death it's self" was incredibly stupid.

 

 

 

 

Cause and effect my friend cause and effect. Revolution looks a lot less valiant when you realize it was the equivalent of being asked to help pay for a check to the dinner you just shared then hulking out and flipping the table.  If my statements about Washington is off then please do tell all the great victories he brought the Revolution.  Britain wasn't that powerful as history books would make you think. There were only so many soldiers in the British Army. Spread out across so many places. And that isn't even including the distance. A boat full of 5,000 strong would take at least a month if not longer to reach the colonies.  They were also less familiar with the terrain and still fought by the old timey rules of war.  Killing an officer wasn't that common or expected. How ever the Revolutionaries had no problem with targeting the leaders of the army.

 

The Declaration of Independence lists all of the grievances the colonists had with the crown. That's far from how you describe it. And yes, the colonists had to adapt and take what advantages they could. They could have easily won the war. As for Washington, go read about the battle of Trenton.

 

 

But no other place at the time was preaching about all men are created equal.  UK abolished slavery in 1833 though Parliament.  US abolished slavery in 1865 after a multi year war that left millions dead. US only beat UK with women's suffrage by a couple of years.  But the British Government did not forum under the rally cry that all men are created equal.

 

Exactly, no other place took the rights of the individual so seriously. There were people pushing for the end of slavery long before it ended. In fact, one of the aforementioned complaints against the King was that England was stopping slavery there but pushing it in the Colonies. Many wanted to ban it at the Constitutional Convention but some didn't and they left it legal to make sure we even had a country. They laid the groundwork for its end though, such as putting an end to the importation of slaves.
 

Interestingly "US only beat UK with women's suffrage by a couple of years" despite being a much younger country. By the way, the highest estimate of the Civil War casualties is about 800,000, including civilians, not "millions." Again, you're ignorant of history, so I suggest you stop.

 

 

 

 

Already been over this with you. Leviathan DLC supports this claim. 

 

And I've already explained how that is another unverifiable claim not present anywhere else in the story, but only in this optional, after the fact, DLC.

 

 

Late info dumps how ever are still valid. They fall into the same set up as duce ex machina. Used to solve an unsolvable plot point. By no means do you have to like that being pulled. But you can't discount the information provided to you just because you don't like how it was presented. As for fitting in with the other elements of the story it actually does. From the first introduction of Sovereign it is displayed the Reapers don't just kill for the lolz and because there is nothing to do on saturday night. That there is a reason behind their actions. ME2 sets it up as Reapers needing specific species to perform their equivalent of reproduction. Depending on the order you play it in the Reaper on Rannoch sets the stage. Leviathan fills in the blanks and the AI at the end answers all the remaining questions.

 

It's not just that I don't like it; it's not proper story telling. I'm not discounting it in the sense that I pretend it didn't happen, but I just don't care. It doesn't change my opinion on the Reapers. They are bad and need to go away. I don't want their excuses, I want them dead. You're right that Sovereign had some sort of reason, though his contempt for Organic life shows it certainly wasn't this. Everything about ME2's plot was stupid. Now, at the end of ME3 you could view Reapers as imperfect attempts at whatever Synthesis is, but that was made as something horrible, so why would we want it?

 

What do you mean by "depending on the order you play it in" and what changes with the Rannoch Reaper? I only played ME3 once and I haven't heard about any differences.

 

If Leviathan fills in all the blanks and the AI answers all remaining questions, you aren't nearly curious enough.

[Natureguy85]

Leviathan was added later because it was DLC. That is kind of how DLC works. DLC supplementing or expanding the story line is exactly what DLC should do in a single player game.  Leviathan, Omega and even Citadel added to the game's over all story. Expanding or creating a little new story in the over all set up of the game.  The fact you appear to hold this in contempt is baffling. Do you prefer the DLC set up like the fire walker? You know were you land on a planet. Spend about 5 minutes on it then leave. With the whole DLC set up not having any meaningful effect on the story line at all.
 

 

DLC is for additional content. It's for side stories and world building. It's for extra things that aren't important to the main plot. All DLCs except Levathan follow this rule. Leviathan, on the other hand, gives information that is supposed to be important to the main plot. This is wrong. Even the attempt is an acknowledgement that the story was incomplete at launch.

 

 

So millions if not billions of deaths are validated because you think the AI is a big stinking doodie head.

 

You probably meant "invalidated." They are dead. The species of the current cycle are alive and wish to remain so. That other people did something and got themselves killed is not going to make them ok with Reapers killing them. Especially not when they now have the Crucible as an emergency kill switch should they eventually make those genocidal synthetics... such as Reapers.

 

 

 

That is....

 

...complete and utter nonsense.

 

"Shepard's energy?"  Really?

 

In a game were the main technological set up is the complete suspension of normal physics to allow FTL speed. Were the main character comes back from the dead after not only being dead for months. But after impacting the surface from an orbital reentry. Were the main antagonist of the series literally reduces organic being into a liquid form before using the various components of their body to craft a new version of themselves. And this is were you draw the arbitrary line in the sand?

 

All of those things after the Mass Effect itself were stupid and we hated them too. What's your point? As for the Mass Effect, that was set up from the very start of the series and is a point where we suspend our disbelief so we can have this universe work. The line is not arbitrary in the least. Watch the Mr.Btongue video in my signature, at least the section on "Genre" to understand the difference better.

 

 

 

Better. The pattern that leads to synthetic and organic conflict won't happen now.  Will this result in ever lasting peace? No one can know for sure. How ever the Reapers are now at peace with the galaxy freely sharing their collected information.  The greater information is gained hopefully the greater the chance for extended peace. At least to the point there are not all out conflicts. Synthesis doesn't state that everyone will for now and forever hold hands singing kumbaya.

 

So then what's the point? Destroy leaves us in the exact same situation where there is peace now and conflict will probably come up later because people are people.

 

 

Nothing was forced with synthesis. The kid even says so:

 

It's not something that can be forced. You are ready and you may choose it.

 

He presents the choice, but you can reject synthesis by not jumping into the beam. You can also reject control by walking over to the far right platform and destroying the Reapers. Or refuse all of them is there too.

 

None of these choices are forced.

 

Not for Shepard but they are indeed forced for everyone else.

 

 

You can still pick something else if you feel it is forced.

 

 

Well that's what the Reapers have been doing the entire game. It's not news.

 

Synthesis is an ideal solution to the Reaper's problem. The game even says as much.

 

Once everyone is converted into Reapers, the conflict ends and the Reapers have won.

 

Exactly. Why would anyone else want that?

 

 

 

 

Serial killers, rapist, child molesters, racists, and politicians are proud of who they are.  Doesn't mean they don't need a adjustment.  In fact if you use human history even what just exists from the beginning of recorded history to now. It is very very very clear that we as a species do in fact need a fix.

 

Ah, and you're just the one to do it, I suppose. Interestingly, people in power who have touted that philosophy are responsible for the deaths of hundreds of millions of people. Maybe Mass Effect was making a historical parralel.

[Andrew Lucas]

Synthesis is pure space sorcery that I don't even know why people should consider it at all, it's impussibru.

[Elhanan]

That's not "Synthesis" as described in the ending. That's synthetic life.

My point is that in the lore, older synthetic and organic life know of synthesis already. Simply because this is not known in Shepard's cycle does not discount the option.

[Natureguy85]

My point is that in the lore, older synthetic and organic life know of synthesis already. Simply because this is not known in Shepard's cycle does not discount the option.

 

They know of it in a generic sense, but not whatever the ending option is.

[BloodyMares]

Because EDI and the Geth are alive in their own way. They are intelligent, self aware and display consciousness. They are alive. If the Reapers harvesting organic beings strikes you as bad. Then killing off an entire race is equally bad. 

 

Repairing the very thing that makes EDI and the Geth work would simply create brand new beings. They are who they are because of their experiences. Recreating them has no guarantee that it will create the same beings.

 

A better way to think about it is with cloning. If you died at age 30 and were cloned. There is no way to guarantee that clone will grow up to be just like you. In fact the clone could end up quite the opposite of you.

1) It's all part of their programming. You can copy and paste the script and it will run the same way. Synthetics are not a race. They are creatures. And they're not alive. I only see it as a simulation and the extent of their programming. And why would I care for a simulation? No matter how often my computer says "Good day, handsome" in a sexy female voice when I log in, I don't start to flirt with my PC like it's a woman.
And what is the point of Synthesis then if synthetics are already alive? What is there for them to undertand about organics if they're conscious? How to behave irrationally?

2) So what if it's a new being? If it serves the same purpose it's good enough. Synthetics are no more than tools for organics. But sure, voice actors almost fooled me into caring for synthetics. Almost.

[Elhanan]

They know of it in a generic sense, but not whatever the ending option is.

Only because nobody could choose it until Shepard. Now that he has, tis all good.

[Natureguy85]

Only because nobody could choose it until Shepard. Now that he has, tis all good.

 

Also because it wasn't even possible until Organics somehow made just the right device to attach to the Citadel and power it.

[Elhanan]

Also because it wasn't even possible until Organics somehow made just the right device to attach to the Citadel and power it.

And the point is...?

Organics creating synthetics is a prominent theme in the series, so this is not surprising in the least.