2568 réponses à ce sujet

[Natureguy85]

And the point is...?

Organics creating synthetics is a prominent theme in the series, so this is not surprising in the least.

 

Which isn't what we were talking about. You should probably get some sleep.

[Elhanan]

Which isn't what we were talking about. You should probably get some sleep.

But it is, as some seem to keep bringing up the lack of mention of the lore; this explains it. Recommend naps myself....

[Natureguy85]

But it is, as some seem to keep bringing up the lack of mention of the lore; this explains it. Recommend naps myself....

 

We were talking about Synthesis, then you started talking about Organics making Synthetics, which is a different issue.

 

Naps = sleep. Take one before you comment again. Maybe you'll be coherent.

[Elhanan]

We were talking about Synthesis, then you started talking about Organics making Synthetics, which is a different issue.
 
Naps = sleep. Take one before you comment again. Maybe you'll be coherent.

And yet you keep missing the target - Kirk

Leviathan makes synthetic life; synthetic life can make synthesis, but up until Shepard has not been possible.

I had a stroke to help explain my problems; your excuse?

[Iakus]

 
Leviathan makes synthetic life; synthetic life can make synthesis, but up until Shepard has not been possible.
 

For reasons that are still unexplained.

 

And in any case, what gives the Reapers or Shepard the right to force Synthesis on every man, woman, child, tree, and bacteria in the galaxy?

[Elhanan]

For reasons that are still unexplained.
 
And in any case, what gives the Reapers or Shepard the right to force Synthesis on every man, woman, child, tree, and bacteria in the galaxy?

Because it is a better option the forcing devastation or servitude from the other options.

[Monica21]

Because it is a better option the forcing devastation or servitude from the other options.

 

Destroy is not devastation. You've changed how organics move and communicate through the galaxy, but they can repair the relays. Devastation would imply that Destroy is something they can never come back from. And what you've done instead, is force everyone to bend to your will. You've forced people to become what you want them to be instead of what they want to be, because you think you know what's best for them. That's its own form of servitude.

[Natureguy85]

And yet you keep missing the target - Kirk

Leviathan makes synthetic life; synthetic life can make synthesis, but up until Shepard has not been possible.

I had a stroke to help explain my problems; your excuse?

 

What is the target? That synthetics exist doesn't logically lead to space magic Synthesis. It wasn't just Shepard that made it possible, it was also the Crucible. Synthesis is just what the Catalyst wanted. Nobody else ever wanted this.

 

I don't have any problems that need excusing, at least not here. I stayed on topic. If your condition keeps you from following a line of conversation, then I wouldn't get into arguments online.

 

 

 

Destroy is not devastation. You've changed how organics move and communicate through the galaxy, but they can repair the relays. Devastation would imply that Destroy is something they can never come back from. And what you've done instead, is force everyone to bend to your will. You've forced people to become what you want them to be instead of what they want to be, because you think you know what's best for them. That's its own form of servitude.

 

All 3 options destroy the relays. He would have a point for low EMS Destroy, but there you don't get a choice.

[gothpunkboy89]

Wow. Maybe that is why some people are so into synthesis. They just hate humans and believe that all humans are just inherently evil and should therefore, be forcibly destroyed and turned into something else. Maybe in this view, an evil robot who has killed and tortured trillions of beings for a billion years is still better than your average person and therefore, its will should be followed rather than allowing those even more evil people to decide for themselves what their futures will be. 

 

You don't have to hate anyone. You simply have to see actions that have been repeated time and time again since we started to keep track of it. What 4 maybe 5,000 years of known development. We still hate each other based on the god question. On the color of our skin or were we were born.

 

5,000 years of development and we are a species that claiming to be the smartest most advanced species on the planet yet rape is still happens.

 

In 2014 in the US alone

 

• There were an estimated 1,165,383 violent crimes (murder and non-negligent homicides, rapes, robberies, and aggravated assaults) reported by law enforcement.
• Aggravated assaults accounted for 63.6 percent of the violent crimes reported, while robberies accounted for 28.0 percent, rape 7.2 percent, and murders 1.2 percent.
• There were an estimated 8,277,829 property crimes (burglaries, larceny-thefts, and motor vehicle thefts) reported by law enforcement. Financial losses suffered by victims of these crimes were calculated at approximately $14.3 billion.
• Larceny-theft accounted for 70.8 percent of all property crimes reported, burglary for 20.9 percent, and motor vehicle theft for 8.3 percent
• Police made an estimated 11,205,833 arrests during 2014—498,666 for violent crimes, and 1,553,980 for property crimes. More than 73 percent of those arrested during 2014 were male.
• The highest number of arrests was for drug abuse violations (1,561,231), followed by larceny-theft (1,238,190) and driving under the influence (1,117,852).

https://www.fbi.gov/...-stats-released

 

You tell me humanity doesn't have a screw loose.

[Monica21]

All 3 options destroy the relays. He would have a point for low EMS Destroy, but there you don't get a choice.

True, Destroy is the one that leaves you with the most difficulty in repairing the relays. I understand his point there. I've never done a truly low EMS run with Earth engulfed in flames, but I have a hard time justifying it from an RP perspective. Your goal is to get as many assets as possible, so why would you avoid doing things to get war assets? You do have to actively avoid doing things to get a low enough EMS for true devastation, which is odd if your goal is to save the galaxy and your Shepard doesn't know what the Crucible's function is yet.

But even with a low EMS Destroy, you're still giving organics the right to self-determination, no matter how difficult it might be.

[Monica21]

You tell me humanity doesn't have a screw loose.

And you don't have any evidence that Synthesis fixes any of that. There's nothing preventing a part-synthetic baby from being born a psychopath and going on a murderous rampage. Except now s/he will just be part machine while enjoying that killing spree.

[Ieldra]

You don't have to hate anyone. You simply have to see actions that have been repeated time and time again since we started to keep track of it. What 4 maybe 5,000 years of known development. We still hate each other based on the god question. On the color of our skin or were we were born.
 
[...]
 
You tell me humanity doesn't have a screw loose.

I agree that we have little reason to celebrate what we are. Yet, the drive that makes us commit crimes is the same that created our modern society with all of its technological wonders as well as our relatively free society: ambition. If no one breaks the rules, nobody will innovate. If no one questions the laws, questionable laws will never be revoked (and really, it's time to revoke the drug laws - they might as well have been invented by the drug lords, so much do they profit from them). As long as we are ambitious, there will be criminals among us. You think that'd change if you choose Synthesis? Think again. If anything, the things people do to each other will become worse as the means to do so advance along with all other technology. We'll never eliminate it without destroying ourselves, all we can hope for is to keep it at a reasonably low level. Easier interconnection would probably help somewhat, but people would actually have to use their new tools to connect with people they'd otherwise consider enemies, and it won't help with people whose actions aren't motivated by hate but by greed.

I do choose Synthesis. But if I thought it would do what you suggest, I'd never touch it with a ten-foot pole.

[Iakus]

Because it is a better option the forcing devastation or servitude from the other options.

That's not a right, that's an excuse.  

[Iakus]

I agree that we have little reason to celebrate what we are. Yet, the drive that makes us commit crimes is the same that created our modern society with all of its technological wonders as well as our relatively free society: ambition. If no one breaks the rules, nobody will innovate. If no one questions the laws, questionable laws will never be revoked (and really, it's time to revoke the drug laws - they might as well have been invented by the drug lords, so much do they profit from them). As long as we are ambitious, there will be criminals among us. You think that'd change if you choose Synthesis? Think again. If anything, the things people do to each other will become worse as the means to do so advance along with all other technology. We'll never eliminate it without destroying ourselves, all we can hope for is to keep it at a reasonably low level. Easier interconnection would probably help somewhat, but people would actually have to use their new tools to connect with people they'd otherwise consider enemies, and it won't help with people whose actions aren't motivated by hate but by greed.

I do choose Synthesis. But if I thought it would do what you suggest, I'd never touch it with a ten-foot pole.

Limitations

[gothpunkboy89]

And you don't have any evidence that Synthesis fixes any of that. There's nothing preventing a part-synthetic baby from being born a psychopath and going on a murderous rampage. Except now s/he will just be part machine while enjoying that killing spree.

 

Laws don't guarantee people follow them. Using that logic we shouldn't even attempt to use laws to prevent stuff like this from happening.

 

Anarchy forever.

[Natureguy85]

You don't have to hate anyone. You simply have to see actions that have been repeated time and time again since we started to keep track of it. What 4 maybe 5,000 years of known development. We still hate each other based on the god question. On the color of our skin or were we were born.

 

5,000 years of development and we are a species that claiming to be the smartest most advanced species on the planet yet rape is still happens.

 

In 2014 in the US alone

 

• There were an estimated 1,165,383 violent crimes (murder and non-negligent homicides, rapes, robberies, and aggravated assaults) reported by law enforcement.
• Aggravated assaults accounted for 63.6 percent of the violent crimes reported, while robberies accounted for 28.0 percent, rape 7.2 percent, and murders 1.2 percent.
• There were an estimated 8,277,829 property crimes (burglaries, larceny-thefts, and motor vehicle thefts) reported by law enforcement. Financial losses suffered by victims of these crimes were calculated at approximately $14.3 billion.
• Larceny-theft accounted for 70.8 percent of all property crimes reported, burglary for 20.9 percent, and motor vehicle theft for 8.3 percent
• Police made an estimated 11,205,833 arrests during 2014—498,666 for violent crimes, and 1,553,980 for property crimes. More than 73 percent of those arrested during 2014 were male.
• The highest number of arrests was for drug abuse violations (1,561,231), followed by larceny-theft (1,238,190) and driving under the influence (1,117,852).

https://www.fbi.gov/...-stats-released

 

You tell me humanity doesn't have a screw loose.

 

And everyone should be judged on what some do?

[Reorte]

Laws don't guarantee people follow them. Using that logic we shouldn't even attempt to use laws to prevent stuff like this from happening.
 
Anarchy forever.

Implementing laws that won't achieve anything is a bad thing. However most achieve their aim at least partially. What reason is there to think that Synthesis will do even that? And even when laws do do what they're intended they can still be unacceptable if they're very intrusive upon those not doing anything wrong in the first place, even if what they're designed to prevent is pretty serious. Synthesis definitely falls under that.

[Reorte]

You tell me humanity doesn't have a screw loose.

Oh, humanity is full of flaws. But it has its good sides too, and I'm not prepared to wipe humanity out and replace it with something that's merely a bit similar just to hide from the bad side.

[gothpunkboy89]

I agree that we have little reason to celebrate what we are. Yet, the drive that makes us commit crimes is the same that created our modern society with all of its technological wonders as well as our relatively free society: ambition. If no one breaks the rules, nobody will innovate. If no one questions the laws, questionable laws will never be revoked (and really, it's time to revoke the drug laws - they might as well have been invented by the drug lords, so much do they profit from them). As long as we are ambitious, there will be criminals among us. You think that'd change if you choose Synthesis? Think again. If anything, the things people do to each other will become worse as the means to do so advance along with all other technology. We'll never eliminate it without destroying ourselves, all we can hope for is to keep it at a reasonably low level. Easier interconnection would probably help somewhat, but people would actually have to use their new tools to connect with people they'd otherwise consider enemies, and it won't help with people whose actions aren't motivated by hate but by greed.

I do choose Synthesis. But if I thought it would do what you suggest, I'd never touch it with a ten-foot pole.

 

You really aren't arguing the point I made. You are trying to cloak a different point entirely in that argument.

 

Killing someone over a toaster or breaking into someone's house to steal their laptop isn't even remotely the same as questioning why do we have draconian laws for drug possession that only end up costing society more then it helps.

 

Ambition and criminals do not go hand in hand. That is rather silly to claim one can not exist without the other. There are millions of ambitious people who are not criminals. And millions of criminals that are not ambitious.  They are mutually exclusive. You can have one without the other. So your connection doesn't really add up.

 

Advancing our ability to reason would change this at least in theory. The reason and logic so many people use to explain why they did  X or Y stupid/illegal thing is mind blowing some times.  Stabbing someone to death because they farted in your face is not the best logic behind murder.  Claiming she didn't say no because she was to drunk or on drugs isn't the best logic for rape. Leaving their kid in the car simply because they forgot about it so they died from heat stroke. Not the best logic there.

 

Better understanding, better ability to think rationally could only solve these problems which stem from irrational thoughts.

[gothpunkboy89]

And everyone should be judged on what some do?

 

If you are judged by your work then yes. Our society develops these kind of people. Over and over and over again. Teen goes into a primarily black church and kills a dozen people because they are black. That isn't just his failure that isn't just the parent's failure. That is societies failure to allow that kind of mentality to even exist.

 

 

 

 

Limitations

But this doesn't apply here. The AI stats synthesis is the next step in eveolution. Not that is is the final step and that society and technology will never advance beyond that point.  The actions during the fight with the Reapers show the galaxy is ready for this next step.

[themikefest]

The thing says that synthesis is the final evolution of all life

https://youtu.be/hstE9GSB-q0?t=28m39s

[Elhanan]

That's not a right, that's an excuse.

No; tis choosing the lesser weevil of the three....

[Iakus]

 

But this doesn't apply here. The AI stats synthesis is the next step in eveolution. Not that is is the final step and that society and technology will never advance beyond that point.  The actions during the fight with the Reapers show the galaxy is ready for this next step.

No, the Catalyst says that Synthesis is the "final" evolution of life.  WHich is, at best, stupidly inaccurate and at worst, the herald of stagnation which is precisely what Mordin was worried about.

[Iakus]

No; tis choosing the lesser weevil of the three....

Is a choice given from the barrel of a gun still a choice?

[Ieldra]

But this doesn't apply here. The AI stats synthesis is the next step in eveolution. Not that is is the final step and that society and technology will never advance beyond that point.  The actions during the fight with the Reapers show the galaxy is ready for this next step.

I hate to shoot my own Synthesis preference in the foot, but the Catalyst says explicitly "Synthesis is the final evolution of all life". The EC disproves that since it shows civilization advancing, and I don't believe there exists a state that cannot be surpassed anyway, but though nonsense, it is actually in the story.

I'd be careful of Mordin's claims though. He's a scientist, so people tend to overlook that he occasionally spouts as much crap as most other characters when they talk about science, simply because the writers have little knowledge of their subject matter. That limitations drive advancement is a fair point, but his statements about technology exchange are nonsense.