2546 réponses à ce sujet

[Elhanan]

So you're saying that you're just picking the easiest choice.

The best choice; solves problems that the others fail to fix.

[Elhanan]

If your EMS is low enough to destroy the galaxy, Synthesis isn't available anyway.

That was not the reason that EMS was posted; simply a quick find to indicate that Destroy is not without penalties.

In game, the Catalyst also informs Shepard that Destroy will likely recycle the problem. If one accepts that the location indicated will actually result in Destruction, then the other intel should be noted, too.

Synthesis is a better choice.

[Nicholas_]

Destroy is the only one true ending as throughout the series your goal was to destroy the reapers not work alongside them. 

 

Synthesis seems selfish as does control, changing every person's dna against their will is supposed to be the right thing to do?

 

The only downsides are that edi dies and the geth etc.

[Elhanan]

Destroy is the only one true ending as throughout the series your goal was to destroy the reapers not work alongside them. 
 
Synthesis seems selfish as does control, changing every person's dna against their will is supposed to be the right thing to do?
 
The only downsides are that edi dies and the geth etc.

Destroy was the original goal, but then a better solution was presented with Synthesis. No overpopulation, increased tech, access to other stores of other intel, end of war with Reapers, Edi lives, Geth Live, Quarians can remove masks, progress instead of regression, etc. No more of a violation than giving the Galaxy an inoculation to prevent disease.

[gothpunkboy89]

We are both.  We are our memories and experiences as much as we are the chemicals in our bodies and the electrical impulses coursing through our nerves.  Screwing with one affects the other.

 

Good, because I didn't say it.

 

And you don't find it the least bit creepy that everyone readily accepts this Green Nirvana with no social upheaval at all?

 

Everyone has glowing green eyes and circuitry on their skin.  EVERYONE.  And you think their genetic diversity didn't change?

 

 

 

EDI : Mordin sent me a nicely crafted message.  It seems he recalls our conversations about the Salarian's equivalent of transhumans.

Shepard: If I could I'd stop you right --

EDI: Transhumans have some of their brain's abilities, such as memory, supplemented or entirely replaced by cybernetics. Legal definitions vary from planet to planet.  Salarians embrace the concept.  Humans have diverse and contentious opinions.

Shepard: Do my implants make me a transhuman?

EDI: That would be telling.

Shepard: What?

EDI: I'm sorry, that was a joke. You are fully human. Cerberus extensively reconstructed you but your brain fuctions are organic.

Shepard: Don't ever do that again! 

 

 

WE SEE GLOWING GREEN BITS ATTACHED TO HUMAN DNA!!!

 

Yet soldiers and in deed anyone can have PTSD without suffering a single injury. And people with injuries like missing limbs are know to get phantom limb syndrome.

 

Mental disabilities are created because of genetics. The person that they become how ever is not due to their genetics. My fiancee's little brother is a great example. This poor kid got fucked 7 ways to sunday in the genetics department. He can't move, he can barely see, can't talk, can't feed himself or even control his bowl movements.  Yet he is capable of recognizing familiar voices and smiling and laughing depending on who it is.  He always burst into a smile when she would talk to him. But for me for the longest time I wouldn't get any reaction because he didn't know me. And even to this day she and her parents and sister still get a stronger responds from them then I do.

 

Genetics decide how you are created. But they don't decide who you are or what you become. Theodore Roosevelt had asthma yet he was a sports man doing events like boxing or swimming. Both of which would cause problems for his asthma. Genetics gave him asthma. Roosevelt told genetics to go **** themselves.

 

But you did say that exactly. You are claiming by changing the why genetic material is formed you are changing who and what everyone is. That is the fundamental part of your argument.  As for lack of social upheaval there were more important things to be done at the time. By the time relays are rebuild and society is function at the most basic level again they would be accustom to their new forms.  As I stated how DNA is formed was altered. What it creates how ever there is no way to show it was changed. Krogan babies look just like Krogan babies. Which means the DNA sequence and parts that form the krogan body would still have to exist.

 

Ah diverse and contemptuous doesn't that describe humanity to a T. Any theories on why they would have such a view compared to the Salarians?

[themikefest]

Synthesis is a better choice.

Tell that to the people who have no choice in having their dna changed

 

Tell that to the people who saw their family members and friends killed

 

Tell that to the people who saw their communites destroyed.

 

destroy is the better choice.

[Elhanan]

Tell that to the people who have no choice in having their dna changed
 
Tell that to the people who saw their family members and friends killed
 
Tell that to the people who saw their communites destroyed.
 
destroy is the better choice.

All of them will know the reasons and the solutions; no problem. Synthesis FTW

[themikefest]

All of them will know the reasons and the solutions; no problem. Synthesis FTW

 The green stuff told them the reasons and solutions. How does that work again? Oh yeah. It was forced

 

destroy ftw

[Mrs_Stick]

All of them will know the reasons and the solutions; no problem. Synthesis FTW

Where does it state we will understand the reason? I know the catalyst states synthetics get an understanding of organics but not that we will understand the reason to go this route. Maybe I am not remembering the catalyst description completly and please let me know. But if I was turn part synthetic against my will I don't care how much I get and understanding of it I would be pissed.

[Elhanan]

Where does it state we will understand the reason? I know the catalyst states synthetics get an understanding of organics but not that we will understand the reason to go this route. Maybe I am not remembering the catalyst description completly and please let me know. But if I was turn part synthetic against my will I don't care how much I get and understanding of it I would be pissed.

If I were forced to tale a medicine that cured me and all my loved ones of ills, could live with it. Same here.

[Monica21]

All of them will know the reasons and the solutions; no problem. Synthesis FTW

Which is it's own problem. Mass acceptance of a change in DNA is a problem. It's not a normal human reaction to such significant and lasting change, which means you're changing how people think and what they believe and what they value without letting them come to those conclusions on their own. You're basically stating that it's fine to brainwash people to accomplish your own goals.

[Elhanan]

Which is it's own problem. Mass acceptance of a change in DNA is a problem. It's not a normal human reaction to such significant and lasting change, which means you're changing how people think and what they believe and what they value without letting them come to those conclusions on their own. You're basically stating that it's fine to brainwash people to accomplish your own goals.

And again, tis no worse than the other alternatives forced on others. Destroy leaves destruction, regression, isolation, and many other issues. Domination is worse, as is doing nothing. I prefer inoculation and solutions; not repeated history.

[Dantriges]

Yeah take the inoculations and solutions from the shady person who also bombed your neighbourhood because he thought it´s the best idea to stop crime.

[Natureguy85]

The best choice; solves problems that the others fail to fix.

 

Yes, Destroy is the best choice and solves all the narrative and ethical problems of the others.

 

 

That was not the reason that EMS was posted; simply a quick find to indicate that Destroy is not without penalties.

In game, the Catalyst also informs Shepard that Destroy will likely recycle the problem. If one accepts that the location indicated will actually result in Destruction, then the other intel should be noted, too.

Synthesis is a better choice.

 

You can't use low EMS destroy to compare to Synthesis because Synthesis is not available in that scenario. If we're going to compare, we must compare n the same level.

 

All of them will know the reasons and the solutions; no problem. Synthesis FTW

 

That doesn't mean they will like them.

[JPVNG]

This game should have ended with Shepard and the Reapers dead. Shepard death would be very emotional but i could live with that, knowing that his death was worth it.

[Elhanan]

Yeah take the inoculations and solutions from the shady person who also bombed your neighbourhood because he thought it´s the best idea to stop crime.

Might as well; others are accepting their word that Destroy, Dominate, and Rejection are also what they say they are.

[Elhanan]

Yes, Destroy is the best choice and solves all the narrative and ethical problems of the others.  
 
You can't use low EMS destroy to compare to Synthesis because Synthesis is not available in that scenario. If we're going to compare, we must compare n the same level. 
 
That doesn't mean they will like them.

Destroy repeats the cycle. This is not a solution; tis ignorance of history and a good old saying.

Not comparing; indicating simplistically that Destroy is harmful. Like running with scissors.

Yes; they absolutely will. Prove otherwise.

[Natureguy85]

Destroy repeats the cycle. This is not a solution; tis ignorance of history and a good old saying.

Not comparing; indicating simplistically that Destroy is harmful. Like running with scissors.

Yes; they absolutely will. Prove otherwise.

 

That's the catalyst's unverified and unverifiable claim about a distant future. He has no evidence for it that we should believe him. You just take his word for it.

 

You're using low EMS destroy to criticize high EMS destroy. Sorry, that doesn't work.

 

I don't need to prove otherwise. You're the one claiming everyone will love it. You prove it. I will grant you that the epilogue makes it seem like a grand old time but that's writer fiat, not a logical conclusion.

[Mrs_Stick]

How do you know that another war will start again between organics and synthetics if destroy is used? Yes it states it's inevitable but that is based off multiple cycles that never got a chance to learn from their mistakes. Synthesis is not a fix all. Can you state with 100% certainty that no war will be started because of this choice? No you can't.

[Dantriges]

Might as well; others are accepting their word that Destroy, Dominate, and Rejection are also what they say they are.

 

Yes. It is quite interesting that they took two passes at this, but it never even crossed their mind to go into some detail why Shepard should listen to Reapa Commander and why it´s actually speaking the truth.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Destroy repeats the cycle. This is not a solution; tis ignorance of history and a good old saying.

 

It could. But, look at the state of the synthetic vs organic conflicts by the time the ending is reached. AI are either working alongside everyone else or defeated at the hands of organics (most of them by group of three organics on foot). If AI could be handled before, they could probably be handled later.

You don't have to look farther than the ending though. Apparently, the AI conflict is of so little importance that it never comes up in Hackett's epilogue and the stargazer scene is the same for all the colored endings with no signs of a synthetic apocalypse in sight.

 

If the conflict renews itself it's up for the player to imagine it happening.

[Dani86]

All of them will know the reasons and the solutions; no problem. Synthesis FTW

 

You sound like Mordin talking about the genophage before his change of heart. Not much difference between forcing the genophage on the krogan and forcing synthesis on everyone. Mordin argued that the genophage was in the krogan's and the galaxy's best interest too. 

[rossler]

This game should have ended with Shepard and the Reapers dead. Shepard death would be very emotional but i could live with that, knowing that his death was worth it.

 

Low and Mid EMS destroy do just this.

 

High EMS destroy has the Reapers destroyed and Shepard alive.

[Vazgen]

A note - Synthesis actually guarantees that the problem will be solved permanently. However, it may even be worse in the long run. More on that below.
Destroy - the cycle has a room to continue
Control - same as Destroy with an exception of Reapers still being around
Synthesis - a new situation, machines and organics become one. Will that remove conflict? Yes, because there simply are no machines and organics any more. However, it can lead to even more devastating results than AI uprisings due to the advanced technology. The thing is, we don't know. The galaxy was never in a situation like this. Its a complete unknown and can go both ways IMO.

I choose Destroy. Because the current cycle proved that they can deal with AI uprisings by defeating the geth and the most powerful AIs - the Reapers. They also understand the dangers of AI technology and have laws prohibiting creation of artificial intelligence. Ultimately, I trust the current cycle to be more efficient in solving the problem than the Reapers.

[Elhanan]

That's the catalyst's unverified and unverifiable claim about a distant future. He has no evidence for it that we should believe him. You just take his word for it.
 
You're using low EMS destroy to criticize high EMS destroy. Sorry, that doesn't work.
 
I don't need to prove otherwise. You're the one claiming everyone will love it. You prove it. I will grant you that the epilogue makes it seem like a grand old time but that's writer fiat, not a logical conclusion.

And you take it at it's word that those other 'levers' are properly tagged.

Destroy has bad results; even worse with low EMS. Synthesis cannot even be obtained until one has high EMS, as it is a better solution.

The epilogue indicates that Synthesis is a win; no proof to the contrary.