2399 réponses à ce sujet

[themikefest]

This just makes Sovereign look like a grade A moron.

In other words, the thing calling itself catalyst since it controls the moron, I mean Sovereign

[Dantriges]

Who sits on the very thing you want to capture first for intel or opening the door for your troops, closing it for the enemy but it can´t for some reason. Observing is too important or so, according to someone.

 

Remember Reaper kids, I must not help, because it would influence the results, we get after we rang the bell to armageddon.

[Natureguy85]

Who sits on the very thing you want to capture first for intel or opening the door for your troops, closing it for the enemy but it can´t for some reason. Observing is too important or so, according to someone.

 

Remember Reaper kids, I must not help, because it would influence the results, we get after we rang the bell to armageddon.

 

Maybe it's like the story of the moth struggling to get out of the cocoon. If he helps, they won't learn.

[Dantriges]

Yeah Sovereign you should really learn how to handle a situation like this, stupid boy, no don´t bother me further, I have to act smug where no one can see me.
 
I have an idea what the catalyst told Sovereign after the whole battle didn´t turn out so hot. Something like this:
https://youtu.be/-qhp4jD2qOc?t=4m38s
 
Dude, you are not responsible for this mess but someone has to take the blame.

[Natureguy85]

Yeah Sovereign you should really learn how to handle a situation like this, stupid boy, no don´t bother me further, I have to act smug where no one can see me.
 
I have an idea what the catalyst told Sovereign after the whole battle didn´t turn out so hot. Something like this:
https://youtu.be/-qhp4jD2qOc?t=4m38s
 
Dude, you are not responsible for this mess but someone has to take the blame.

 

You know, that's a really good point. Since Harbinger was controlling the collectors directly, who really failed? What a jerk boss!

[gothpunkboy89]

That would only be true if C-Sec represented a large portion of the Citadel population. The Wiki says the population of the Citadel is 13.2 million and there are 200,000 C-Sec constables. Now, we don't know exact numbers but just to throw some out, humans could be 30%, or 60,000. If they represent 10% of the humans on the Citadel, that's 600,000 humans. Bailey says "the other Wards are dominated by Asari, Turians, or Salarians. I don't know if he means each is dominated by one of them or if all are dominated by a mix of the three. The word "or" suggests to me that it's the latter. Either way, even if the entire Citadel population were human, that isn't many compared to the total.

 

And yet 30% is still a tiny number compared to the other races. 30% of C sec being human isn't over representation.

[Natureguy85]

And yet 30% is still a tiny number compared to the other races. 30% of C sec being human isn't over representation.

 

I don't think you understand how these numbers work or what these terms mean. If Humans don't account for close to 30% or more of the total population of the Citadel, then that is the definition of over representation. That idea is pretty ridiculous considering not only are humans new comers, but it isn't even close, with the Council races having been there for a significant amount of time.

 

And if, as was the case before, Turians still account for about half, that means all others would be 20%. While we don't know exact numbers, the wiki describes Humans as the "largest minority."

[gothpunkboy89]

It has enough for an educated guess. The reliable numbers we have is somewhere around 200-300 million. Some mixed worlds are also included. I actually inflated the numbers up to ridiculous proportions. As I said, if humans had a 100 colonies, which they don´t* and each one had a population of 4 million which they certainly don´t have** we would have a total off world population of 400 million colonists. If we triple that number because everyone loves asari or hanging out in asteroid mining posts, we still have around 1.2 billion humans. If 10% of all humans left Earth this would mean that there are 12.6 billions in the galaxy, 1.2 billion off world.

As I said I already added a ton on top of the numbers we have.

Your proposal means that we somehow were able to start the biggest mass migration ever with a tech we had no real clue about within the timespan of 28 years or even less as humanity got an embassy on the Citadel in 2165 and every other race has an immigration policy of "we don´t give a sh*t."

 

*because that would mean that the Alliance was able to start three colony projects per year over the last 33 years when we plopped down the first colony.

** we have population numbers for many colonies and a lot of them were below that, like nearly all of them, with the exception of Eden Prime, Terra Nova, Bekenstein which actually exceeds that number and Elysium with 6 million +, half alien.

 

 

Every mass relay we have ever seen establishes a corridor from one relay to a corresponding one in another system. Differences arein numbers of possible connections. Each one worked like that, from the bog standard relay in the network, the conduit, t the Omega 4 relay. As far as we know, the Reapers used the Citadel relay to come from dark space and go back into dark space.

But let´s ignore that we have even the slightest trace of evidence of the possibility that there can be mass relays without a sister relay and say that yes the Citadel Relay can create a one way tunnel to dark space and you can only use it to fly from dark space to the Citadel.

Why isn´t the miracle relay on the other side. It sounds more logical that the sending station aka your departure point would be the one able to reate a tunnel to its destination, not the destination one tunneling one to you but ok we are beyond common sense anyways

 

 

A single geth was landing on Eden Prime and got out after being discovered and shot at. Yay. I am pretty sure that right at this moment smugglers, illegal immigrants, drug runners and perhaps even some soldiers are slipping past a border patrol somewhere right now. You could at least use Sovereign and just ignore that old vanguard and his robo buddies had a lot more firepower to swat defenses before rampaging through the garden of Eden, get in contact with a single item and then get the hell out after planting a few little surprises..

Nevermind that a bunch of frigates detached for colonial defense are enough to blow up the flying deathwish aka the Collector cruiser. Perhaps they even installed a few GARDIAN lasers considering that they are a full Alliance colony instead of a bunch of isolationists whose motto is "F*ck the Alliance."

 

A guess is a guess.  No matter how smart you think it is it is still a guess. Or lets put it this way there were educated guesses that the Earth was the center of our solar system. Educated guesses that sickness was due to imbalances in fluid in your body like bile and that leeches could restore the balance. There is also a book making an educated guess that there is an all knowing, all seeing all powerful being that created everything in 7 days. Hear it is a best seller as well. All created because they had limited information on the subject they were trying to understand. Later when they gained access to better tech and expanded their knowledge they were able to see the errors of said educated guess. So until you have more data it is a guess and nothing more.

 

But we don't have the slightest trace evidence of the possibility that there can be mass relays without a sister relay. Primary and secondary relays always connect to each other. And every instance shown of a ship using said relay always had to go up along side of it get hit by a charge then accelerate. To work in reverse would be completely idiotic. Because any stray chunk of anything traveling though space could enter and be accelerated well beyond the speed of light. Any ship even a Reaper traveling faster then the speed of light in the opposite direct. Should they meet it would gut even a Reaper.  Considering the distance that would needed to be travel that would be stupid.

 

As for sister relay they work on using a massive Element Zero core to create the tunnel. Element Zero lasts a while but still has a half life before it is rendered useless. Since Element Zero is so rare creating a relay well outside of the galaxy that would need to periodically be recharged is rather wasteful.  Harvest all organic and synthetic life. Then mine more element zero using various creations from harvest. Then have to trek all the way to the citadel to warp to relay in darkspace to refill it then have to manually fly back to get more. And again there is always the possibility of a rather curious race finding out that the Citadel is a relay and tracing it to darkspace and to the Reapers.  Which seems to be the basis of the Refuse ending. The next cycle learned about them and were prepared and managed to defeat them.

 

Collectors use powerful communication jammers as well as paralyzing seeker swarms. While their ship isn't build for a war of attrition it is still capable of dealing significant damage to other ships. Particularly if attacking by surprise.  Hit and run would be possible though not likely they would get very many coloniest.

[KaiserShep]

You know, that's a really good point. Since Harbinger was controlling the collectors directly, who really failed? What a jerk boss!

The Collector General should have been a totally separate being in the same sense that Sovereign seemed to be. The assuming direct control thing should have remained a key weakness that Harbinger chooses to avoid after what it did to Sovereign. It would have spared us the silly battle calls.

[gothpunkboy89]

I don't think you understand how these numbers work or what these terms mean. If Humans don't account for close to 30% or more of the total population of the Citadel, then that is the definition of over representation. That idea is pretty ridiculous considering not only are humans new comers, but it isn't even close, with the Council races having been there for a significant amount of time.

 

And if, as was the case before, Turians still account for about half, that means all others would be 20%. While we don't know exact numbers, the wiki describes Humans as the "largest minority."

 

And yet humanity only gained that because a lot of people were killed during Sovereign's attack. And the only people applying for the jobs were humans. Particularly since at that time the upper management of C Sec would still be dominated by Turian, Asari and Salarian.  So these choices were made by existing races. With clearly more humans willing (or pressured) into applying and joining up.

 

So the whole argument is rather silly. Though it does show they are just like us. Complete idiots.

[gothpunkboy89]

This just makes Sovereign look like a grade A moron.

 

 

No it doesn't. Reapers play the waiting game very well.  They show they are willing to wait till their targets have their pants around their ankles before attacking. Only moving in in ME3 because all other attempts failed so they had no choice but to resort of brute force attacks.

[KaiserShep]

No it doesn't. Reapers play the waiting game very well. They show they are willing to wait till their targets have their pants around their ankles before attacking. Only moving in in ME3 because all other attempts failed so they had no choice but to resort of brute force attacks.

Sovereign's use of the geth and its move on the Citadel predicated on the idea that the trap failed, leaving the reapers trapped in dark space. Had a conventional return to the galaxy left them with hundreds if not thousands of years of travel, then it would be understandable that it might feel the situation urgent enough to take action. But 2.5 years? If it sat and waited for the reapers to hit the alpha relay, how would this have made the reapers' chances of victory any worse? If anything, it might have improved them, because no one would know anything about them, even if someone like Shepard got the vision from the beacon.

I think the problem is that the Sovereign plot didn't really account for any of this, so things like the alpha relay and collectors didn't exist during ME1's story. I have no doubt that Sovereign was a totally independent being before the series went forward.

[Dantriges]

A guess is a guess.  No matter how smart you think it is it is still a guess. Or lets put it this way there were educated guesses that the Earth was the center of our solar system. Educated guesses that sickness was due to imbalances in fluid in your body like bile and that leeches could restore the balance. There is also a book making an educated guess that there is an all knowing, all seeing all powerful being that created everything in 7 days. Hear it is a best seller as well. All created because they had limited information on the subject they were trying to understand. Later when they gained access to better tech and expanded their knowledge they were able to see the errors of said educated guess. So until you have more data it is a guess and nothing more.

Better a guess based on something than going into lalaland on nothing
 

But we don't have the slightest trace evidence of the possibility that there can be mass relays without a sister relay. Primary and secondary relays always connect to each other. And every instance shown of a ship using said relay always had to go up along side of it get hit by a charge then accelerate. To work in reverse would be completely idiotic. Because any stray chunk of anything traveling though space could enter and be accelerated well beyond the speed of light. Any ship even a Reaper traveling faster then the speed of light in the opposite direct. Should they meet it would gut even a Reaper.  Considering the distance that would needed to be travel that would be stupid.

I assumed that you know how relays are supposed to work, seems I was wrong.
 

As for sister relay they work on using a massive Element Zero core to create the tunnel. Element Zero lasts a while but still has a half life before it is rendered useless. Since Element Zero is so rare creating a relay well outside of the galaxy that would need to periodically be recharged is rather wasteful.  Harvest all organic and synthetic life. Then mine more element zero using various creations from harvest. Then have to trek all the way to the citadel to warp to relay in darkspace to refill it then have to manually fly back to get more. And again there is always the possibility of a rather curious race finding out that the Citadel is a relay and tracing it to darkspace and to the Reapers.  Which seems to be the basis of the Refuse ending. The next cycle learned about them and were prepared and managed to defeat them.

Sometimes you have to work with what you have, not what you wish. Anyways Eezo only slowly declines when you apply an electrical current to it. If the relay is powered down for the vast majority of the time like all the time between the cycles you don´t need to refill much. Grab some on your way out and replace it.

Anyways that raises an interesting question. Is anyone actually refilling the relays in the Milky Way?
 

Collectors use powerful communication jammers as well as paralyzing seeker swarms. While their ship isn't build for a war of attrition it is still capable of dealing significant damage to other ships. Particularly if attacking by surprise.  Hit and run would be possible though not likely they would get very many coloniest.

So mission objective failed.

[Natureguy85]

A guess is a guess.  No matter how smart you think it is it is still a guess. Or lets put it this way there were educated guesses that the Earth was the center of our solar system. Educated guesses that sickness was due to imbalances in fluid in your body like bile and that leeches could restore the balance. There is also a book making an educated guess that there is an all knowing, all seeing all powerful being that created everything in 7 days. Hear it is a best seller as well. All created because they had limited information on the subject they were trying to understand. Later when they gained access to better tech and expanded their knowledge they were able to see the errors of said educated guess. So until you have more data it is a guess and nothing more.

 

It's disingenuous to call those "educated guesses." The first two were scientific claims based on thought and study. That they were later shown to be wrong means nothing on its own. The last is a mix of faith and historical record. None have anything to do with what we're discussing, so kindly shove your anti-Christian agenda and stay on topic.

 

 

But we don't have the slightest trace evidence of the possibility that there can be mass relays without a sister relay. Primary and secondary relays always connect to each other. And every instance shown of a ship using said relay always had to go up along side of it get hit by a charge then accelerate.

 

As for sister relay they work on using a massive Element Zero core to create the tunnel. Element Zero lasts a while but still has a half life before it is rendered useless. Since Element Zero is so rare creating a relay well outside of the galaxy that would need to periodically be recharged is rather wasteful.  Harvest all organic and synthetic life. Then mine more element zero using various creations from harvest. Then have to trek all the way to the citadel to warp to relay in darkspace to refill it then have to manually fly back to get more. And again there is always the possibility of a rather curious race finding out that the Citadel is a relay and tracing it to darkspace and to the Reapers.  Which seems to be the basis of the Refuse ending. The next cycle learned about them and were prepared and managed to defeat them.

 

You're right, which is why it stands to reason that there is a Primary Relay in Dark Space that links to the Citadel.

 

Where are you getting that info on secondary relays? All I remember from the game or found on the wiki is an explanation that Primaries are linked 1 to 1 while secondary Relays can go to any other Relay in their limited range. I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that the Relays had, for all practical purposes, "infinite" eezo cores, much like guns have "infinite" ammo.

 

You could be right about "refuse". Based on Liara's Vigil, I assumed the next cycle finished and used the Crucible.

 

And yet humanity only gained that because a lot of people were killed during Sovereign's attack. And the only people applying for the jobs were humans. Particularly since at that time the upper management of C Sec would still be dominated by Turian, Asari and Salarian.  So these choices were made by existing races. With clearly more humans willing (or pressured) into applying and joining up.

 

So the whole argument is rather silly. Though it does show they are just like us. Complete idiots.

 

Yeah, that's the reason given by Bailey. However, some people still don't like it, so much so that a Turian can mount a political campaign on it. Bailey says it was out of necessity. However, while the administrators might know that, the general public might not.

 

However, the whole reason we are discussing this is that you were misusing this issue to make a declaration about numbers that it doesn't support.

 

 

 

No it doesn't. Reapers play the waiting game very well.  They show they are willing to wait till their targets have their pants around their ankles before attacking. Only moving in in ME3 because all other attempts failed so they had no choice but to resort of brute force attacks.

 

They really don't. They keep trying to interfere and accelerate the next Harvest. They don't have to "wait till their targets have their pants around their ankles." That is the perpetual state of the galaxy. Nobody is ever prepared for the Reapers to show up.  Do you even think about what you say or read it before you hit "post"?

 

As I said earlier and KaiserShep also stated, the speed at which the Reapers can fly in and overwhelm a galaxy that had advanced warning and technology from Sovereign makes everything in ME1 utterly pointless and stupid.

[Dantriges]

Yeah it´s quite funny that someone thinks that this plan is the "sneaky one."

Gather allies all over the place, where you have to fly around for

Attack a colony to obtain info from another beacon

Revive a rachni queen on one planet

Get the cypher on another one, then drop a ton of geth on the planet

Visit Ilos where you don´t know, if there are any defenses still active. Neutron purges or a WMD as a failsafe would really ruin your day.

Use the Conduit, a prototype device you don´t know the current state it´s in and if it´s actually able to reproduce the effect or burned out after the last time. It´s a prototype, these often have some glitches or reduced features.

Finally attack the Citadel

 

There so many parts where this plan expanded the circle of people who know, could have failed and alerted the galaxy to the Reaper presence that it´s something you do when you have no other choice, not when you want to fly under the radar.

[gothpunkboy89]

Sovereign's use of the geth and its move on the Citadel predicated on the idea that the trap failed, leaving the reapers trapped in dark space. Had a conventional return to the galaxy left them with hundreds if not thousands of years of travel, then it would be understandable that it might feel the situation urgent enough to take action. But 2.5 years? If it sat and waited for the reapers to hit the alpha relay, how would this have made the reapers' chances of victory any worse? If anything, it might have improved them, because no one would know anything about them, even if someone like Shepard got the vision from the beacon.

I think the problem is that the Sovereign plot didn't really account for any of this, so things like the alpha relay and collectors didn't exist during ME1's story. I have no doubt that Sovereign was a totally independent being before the series went forward.

 

Never seemed to me that the Reapers were trapped in Darkspace. Only that the short cut to the galaxy was removed. Which is backed up by later games. ME1 still shows clearly the Reaper threat isn't removed. Just stalled for now which lines up with the actions of ME2 and 3.

 

The original plan was still possible. Just delayed slightly till Sovereign bit the dust. Their actions afterwards line up with them going OK original plan didn't work. Time for plan B.

[gothpunkboy89]

Better a guess based on something than going into lalaland on nothing
 

I assumed that you know how relays are supposed to work, seems I was wrong.
 

Sometimes you have to work with what you have, not what you wish. Anyways Eezo only slowly declines when you apply an electrical current to it. If the relay is powered down for the vast majority of the time like all the time between the cycles you don´t need to refill much. Grab some on your way out and replace it.

Anyways that raises an interesting question. Is anyone actually refilling the relays in the Milky Way?
 

So mission objective failed.

 

 

A guess and lalaland are the same thing.

 

Or you didn't actually read what I put. You can not actuate a relay from the opposite side. AKA you can't activate the Charon Relay from the Acturas side. You would need to use the Acturas relay to reach the Sol system before you could use Charon Relay.  Hence why the logic of the Citadel doesn't make any sense because out in dark space there would be no way to connect it.

 

For the Reapers they build everything so they can plan everything around what they build. And can refine their creations over time if need be. As for relays I am sure they are refilled every few dozen cycles.

 

No not really.

[gothpunkboy89]

It's disingenuous to call those "educated guesses." The first two were scientific claims based on thought and study. That they were later shown to be wrong means nothing on its own. The last is a mix of faith and historical record. None have anything to do with what we're discussing, so kindly shove your anti-Christian agenda and stay on topic.

 

 

 

You're right, which is why it stands to reason that there is a Primary Relay in Dark Space that links to the Citadel.

 

Where are you getting that info on secondary relays. All I remember from the game or found on the wiki is an explanation that Primaries are linked 1 to 1 while secondary Relays can go to any other Relay in their limited range. I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that the Relays had, for all practical purposes, "infinite" eezo cores, much like guns have "infinite" ammo.

 

You could be right about "refuse". Based on Liara's Vigil, I assumed the next cycle finished and used the Crucible.

 

 

Yeah, that's the reason given by Bailey. However, some people still don't like it, so much so that a Turian can mount a political campaign on it. Bailey says it was out of necessity. However, while the administrators might know that, the general public might not.

 

However, the whole reason we are discussing this is that you were misusing this issue to make a declaration about numbers that it doesn't support.

 

 

 

 

They really don't. They keep trying to interfere and accelerate the next Harvest. They don't have to "wait till their targets have their pants around their ankles." That is the perpetual state of the galaxy. Nobody is ever prepared for the Reapers to show up.  Do you even think about what you say or read it before you hit "post"?

 

As I said earlier and KaiserShep also stated, the speed at which the Reapers can fly in and overwhelm a galaxy that had advanced warning and technology from Sovereign makes everything in ME1 utterly pointless and stupid.

 

Were they incorrect because the data they had on hand at the time was flawed or incomplete? Yes it was due to lack of technology or other information open to them. So they were guessing at how the solar system was set up. How illness happened. And how the Earth and all creatures on it were created. Please explain the dinosaurs and cave men.  Faith is the opposite of facts. And the fact is early man and even modern man when something happens they couldn't logically explain it was always because there must be some higher power at work.  Seriously the black death is rather well known and understood by people today. Back them how ever they had only vague concepts of how it worked. So to many they saw it as their deity's wrath being unleashed on them in a form of sickness.

 

When the SARS out break happened in 2003 the governments of the world reacted by shutting everything down and quarantining people correct. Only 8,000 people died world wide.  Because we know who, what, when, were, and why when it comes to most diseases. Or at the very least we know how to react to them to limit the spread. Not so much for the ancient world. When lot of people started dieing at once not to much work to find people starting to blame the cause on angering their chosen deity they worship.

 

This isn't anti christian because Jewish and Muslim faith both follow similar lines of ideology about the creation of the heavens and earth. What I stated was fact. They had no idea how things were created so they defaulted to what we always have done when we lack information. Some form of higher power must have done it.

 

There appears to be a distance limit even with Relays. To be that far out in dark space they would have needed to create another Citadel size relay. After all when the Reapers are shown awakening in ME2 the Milky Way was a small disk on the horizon. Considering how big it actually is they would need to be really far out in dark space. A relay inside the network how ever does make more sense.  Most likely the Citadel acts as a signal to alert the Reapers to attack. How ever it never came. Why else would they need a remote controlled signal? Why not an automatic feature? Why would Sovereign even need to be in the galaxy?

 

Seriously if you look hard at this it falls apart from game 1. Let alone the change in story line from game 2 and 3.

 

No it is stated very clearly the Element Zero degrades over time. It has a half life of hundreds of thousands of years. Now that could just be that it only degrades when used. And in it's natural state it can exist without issue forever. Guns don't have infinite ammo. How ever the rounds fired with few exceptions are tiny slivers of the ammo block. The reason it is never shown in game running out is the same reason why you never trip or guns never jam in CoD or Battlefield.

 

Lets see last time a bit of data slipped though their fingers. The end result was the Protheans scientist survived. Managed to get back to the Citadel and altered the Keepers to ignore the signal sent from Sovergin. Because of the Sovereign was left with it's metaphorical dick hanging out. So is it any wonder they might try to make sure a similar issues doesn't pop up again?

 

Galaxy didn't really have advance warning. None that they actually took seriously. Did you not listen to Garrus in ME3? He got a token force that did only small things after he raised as much hell over the issue as he could. Even getting his father a high ranking officer involved. And when the Reapers invaded they defaulted to him as if he knew everything. Because they never listened.

 

The ~3 years between ME1 and ME3 might have been enough time for the galaxy to be ready. And by all accounts they should have been ready. But few people in power took the threat seriously enough. The push wasn't there.

[Natureguy85]

Never seemed to me that the Reapers were trapped in Darkspace.

 

Well thank you for proving that you have no idea what you're talking about. The first game explicitly tells you this. Also, another thing I realized from watching the conversation with Vigil. He says it took decades for the scientists to come up with the way to mess with the Citadel signal. They were up and around for a long time after the Harvest. That's likely where they and Vigil learned more about what happened during the Harvest.

 

 

 So they were guessing at how the solar system was set up. How illness happened. And how the Earth and all creatures on it were created. 

 

No, they weren't guessing. It's incredibly frustrating to talk to someone who doesn't know what words mean. Moving on.

 

 

 

 

There appears to be a distance limit even with Relays. To be that far out in dark space they would have needed to create another Citadel size relay. After all when the Reapers are shown awakening in ME2 the Milky Way was a small disk on the horizon. Considering how big it actually is they would need to be really far out in dark space. A relay inside the network how ever does make more sense.  Most likely the Citadel acts as a signal to alert the Reapers to attack. How ever it never came. Why else would they need a remote controlled signal? Why not an automatic feature? Why would Sovereign even need to be in the galaxy?

 

Seriously if you look hard at this it falls apart from game 1. Let alone the change in story line from game 2 and 3.

 

There is no distance limit given for Primary Relays, as far as I am aware. Maybe there is another Citadel style Relay in Dark Space. Why not? It doesn't matter how far out in Dark Space they are as Relay travel is instantaneous. In fact, them being that far out makes sense as to why the Citadel Relay being opened is so important.

 

A relay inside the network that must be reached by entering the galaxy from Dark Space does not make more sense than an instant jump in from outside the galaxy, at least not in the normal world of rational people, in which you seem to be a non-resident visitor.

 

Sovereign would need to be in the galaxy because, at least in the first game, the cycle triggered when civilization reached a certain point, not after a certain amount of time passed. Why Sovereign sends a signal to the Citadel to tell the Keepers to activate the Relay rather than being able to activate the Relay remotely is a better question.

 

You can nitpick or laugh at a few things in the first game, but it worked pretty well. The other two don't even come close.

 

 

 

No it is stated very clearly the Element Zero degrades over time. It has a half life of hundreds of thousands of years. Now that could just be that it only degrades when used. And in it's natural state it can exist without issue forever. Guns don't have infinite ammo. How ever the rounds fired with few exceptions are tiny slivers of the ammo block. The reason it is never shown in game running out is the same reason why you never trip or guns never jam in CoD or Battlefield.

 

Where is this stated? I don't remember and I can't find it on the wiki. As for guns, I understand gun ammo is not truly infinite. However it is functionally infinite in that you will never run out. That's why I put the word in quotes. Thousands of rounds can come from one ammo block. The difference from your other examples is that while both are gameplay decisions, Mass Effect took the time to justify it via lore and worldbuilding.

 

 

 

Lets see last time a bit of data slipped though their fingers. The end result was the Protheans scientist survived. Managed to get back to the Citadel and altered the Keepers to ignore the signal sent from Sovergin. Because of the Sovereign was left with it's metaphorical dick hanging out. So is it any wonder they might try to make sure a similar issues doesn't pop up again?

 

Your interest in Reaper dicks aside, it's possible but unknown if they would even find the "beacons." It can be handwaved pretty easily.

 

 

 

Galaxy didn't really have advance warning. None that they actually took seriously. Did you not listen to Garrus in ME3? He got a token force that did only small things after he raised as much hell over the issue as he could. Even getting his father a high ranking officer involved. And when the Reapers invaded they defaulted to him as if he knew everything. Because they never listened.

 

The ~3 years between ME1 and ME3 might have been enough time for the galaxy to be ready. And by all accounts they should have been ready. But few people in power took the threat seriously enough. The push wasn't there.

 

That they didn't heed the warning doesn't mean they didn't have it. Even those slight preparations are still more than other cycles had. I do appreciate another plot recap as you miss the point entirely.

[Dantriges]

A guess and lalaland are the same thing.

Sure, some people can´t tell the difference.
 

Or you didn't actually read what I put. You can not actuate a relay from the opposite side. AKA you can't activate the Charon Relay from the Acturas side. You would need to use the Acturas relay to reach the Sol system before you could use Charon Relay.  Hence why the logic of the Citadel doesn't make any sense because out in dark space there would be no way to connect it.
 
For the Reapers they build everything so they can plan everything around what they build. And can refine their creations over time if need be.

I don´t know where this is supposed to go and if you misunderstand me deliberately, there was never a mass relay that worked differently than relay to relay. That´s all.

As for relays I am sure they are refilled every few dozen cycles.

The Mass relays are refilled by eezo faeries from the astral.

[gothpunkboy89]

Well thank you for proving that you have no idea what you're talking about. The first game explicitly tells you this. Also, another thing I realized from watching the conversation with Vigil. He says it took decades for the scientists to come up with the way to mess with the Citadel signal. They were up and around for a long time after the Harvest. That's likely where they and Vigil learned more about what happened during the Harvest.

 

No, they weren't guessing. It's incredibly frustrating to talk to someone who doesn't know what words mean. Moving on.

 

There is no distance limit given for Primary Relays, as far as I am aware. Maybe there is another Citadel style Relay in Dark Space. Why not? It doesn't matter how far out in Dark Space they are as Relay travel is instantaneous. In fact, them being that far out makes sense as to why the Citadel Relay being opened is so important.

 

A relay inside the network that must be reached by entering the galaxy from Dark Space does not make more sense than an instant jump in from outside the galaxy, at least not in the normal world of rational people, in which you seem to be a non-resident visitor.

 

Sovereign would need to be in the galaxy because, at least in the first game, the cycle triggered when civilization reached a certain point, not after a certain amount of time passed. Why Sovereign sends a signal to the Citadel to tell the Keepers to activate the Relay rather than being able to activate the Relay remotely is a better question.

 

You can nitpick or laugh at a few things in the first game, but it worked pretty well. The other two don't even come close.

 

Where is this stated? I don't remember and I can't find it on the wiki. As for guns, I understand gun ammo is not truly infinite. However it is functionally infinite in that you will never run out. That's why I put the word in quotes. Thousands of rounds can come from one ammo block. The difference from your other examples is that while both are gameplay decisions, Mass Effect took the time to justify it via lore and worldbuilding.

 

Your interest in Reaper dicks aside, it's possible but unknown if they would even find the "beacons." It can be handwaved pretty easily.

 

That they didn't heed the warning doesn't mean they didn't have it. Even those slight preparations are still more than other cycles had. I do appreciate another plot recap as you miss the point entirely.

The first game doesn't explicitly tell you this. The first game has Shepard guessing that the Reapers are trapped.  Nothing in the game explicitly states they are trapped. Only that they appear when the signal is sent to the Citadel and they surge though it. After they are done they retreat to dark space to wait and deactivate the Citadel. If they are truly trapped in darkspace then there is no way any sequel could have happened. Because the only one not in dark space is currently in a million pieces.  Seriously with your logic ME2 or 3 in any way shape or form could not exist.

 

But it was. Is the Earth the center of the solar system? They saw the sun and other celestial bodies move around the earth. Since the concept the earth might be moving never came to them they guessed that the earth must be at the center and everything orbits the earth.

 

There has to be distance limits other wise a single primary should be able to connect any other primary relay. Besides special ones like Citadel and Alpha. As for it being in the relay. What if some curious species bothered to learn about the citadel? Discovered the truth about it? Disable it and shut the arms and abandon the place save a small force to keep it shut.  Seriously the entire game is based on the fact that the Protheans figured out the signal and figured out how to alter it. If this happened before the Harvest it would make it impossible for the Reapers to harvest.

 

You or maybe it was someone else mention how stupid it is that the AI is housed on the Citadel. Well working under the assumption it wasn't build into the Citadel and was in fact a lets say a super Reaper (larger then Harbinger). And lets make the assumption you use that it is fact they are trapped in darkspace like you claim it is explicitly stated in ME1. This means the entire Reaper trap could be undone simply by one specie(s) being curious enough to try and understand the Citadel. Find out about the signal, disable it then close up the citadel leaving Sovergin with no way to open it and no way to call in the other Reapers.

 

You do realize how stupid that set up is right?  It is one thing to bank on them not being attentive enough to see the trap you have laid for them. It is an entirely different story to bank literally everything on said lack of attentiveness.

 

I can accept the citadel can connect with Alpha Relay to speed them into power. I can accept that the Citadel is unique in that it can launch them all right into dark space without needing another one.  But I can't accept your logic which seems to stat that 12 people could bring everything the Reapers have done up to this point to a grinding halt.

 

My statement is factual. The entire set up of the ME universe hinges on the Prothean Scientist getting to the Citadel after the Reapers left and altered the signal. With out this key bit of game fact the entire series couldn't happen. If a dozen people of one species avoided them and did that much damage. How much do you think another dozen people left over could do to their plan?

 

The waiting the attempting other options to take the citadel make sense in that perspective. They didn't want a repeat of last time so they were being extra cautious.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Sovereign's use of the geth and its move on the Citadel predicated on the idea that the trap failed, leaving the reapers trapped in dark space. Had a conventional return to the galaxy left them with hundreds if not thousands of years of travel, then it would be understandable that it might feel the situation urgent enough to take action. But 2.5 years? If it sat and waited for the reapers to hit the alpha relay, how would this have made the reapers' chances of victory any worse? If anything, it might have improved them, because no one would know anything about them, even if someone like Shepard got the vision from the beacon.

I think the problem is that the Sovereign plot didn't really account for any of this, so things like the alpha relay and collectors didn't exist during ME1's story. I have no doubt that Sovereign was a totally independent being before the series went forward.

 

Also, if Sovereign just waited for those few years he could have ran the exact same plan with a handful of Reapers replacing the Geth (he also could have done this about 1000 years earlier).

[Eryri]

Also, if Sovereign just waited for those few years he could have ran the exact same plan with a handful of Reapers replacing the Geth (he also could have done this about 1000 years earlier).

And even if his agent inside the Citadel failed to keep the arms open, he would have had the firepower of the Reapers to obliterate the citadel defence fleet with very little risk to himself. And to head into more speculative territory, I know the Citadel hull is supposed to be 'quantum shielded' and able to stand up to weeks of bombardment by council weaponry, but I don't imagine it would take the combined firepower of the entire Reaper armada all that long to bore their way through, thereby gaining access to the master relay control. And with the relays shut down the war is won.

This really was the Reaper's war to lose. They could still have won easily if they hadn't taken such a firm grasp of the idiot ball.

[gottaloveme]

I don't choose synthesis because if Shepard says no hacking the heretic geth to make them believe differently then he's not going to mash synthetics and organics together.

 

I don't choose control because of trust issues. Who knows what would happen to Shepard's mind and/or will in 50,000 years? Or that he might not be swayed and think the harvesting was a good idea after all.

 

I choose destroy because that is what Shepard is ordered to do. He spends the game trying to convince TIM that control is not the option. And in my games that is something he believes. Also the fact that he would like to live.

 

These choices are despite the fact that it is TIM that chooses control and Anderson that chooses destroy.

[Natureguy85]

The first game doesn't explicitly tell you this.

 

Oh, but it does.

 

 

 

If they are truly trapped in darkspace then there is no way any sequel could have happened. Because the only one not in dark space is currently in a million pieces.  Seriously with your logic ME2 or 3 in any way shape or form could not exist.

 

Well based on the poor quality, would that be a bad thing? Kidding aside, the need for sequels is a totally separate argument. We're talking about what was written. There is also an argument to be made that ME didn't need a sequel and wrapped up just fine. This was the case for The Matrix and there is a much stronger case there for the sequels to not have been made. There's lots that could have been done. There could be a contingency plan, like the Collectors but good. There could be a Cerberus like faction that wants the Reapers to come for whatever reason that opposes Shepard in the second game. Or the second or 3rd game could take place far in the future where the Reapers flying in at FTL makes sense.

 

 

 

I don't know the difference between a guess and a conclusion.

 

Yup.

 

 

 

There has to be distance limits other wise a single primary should be able to connect any other primary relay. Besides special ones like Citadel and Alpha. As for it being in the relay. What if some curious species bothered to learn about the citadel? Discovered the truth about it? Disable it and shut the arms and abandon the place save a small force to keep it shut.  Seriously the entire game is based on the fact that the Protheans figured out the signal and figured out how to alter it. If this happened before the Harvest it would make it impossible for the Reapers to harvest.

 

No it doesn't. Point to point is point to point. A tunnel with no side exits goes from one place to another. No matter how long that tunnel is, you can only use it to get between two points.

 

What if something happened that never happened? Well, we can play that game all day but it won't get us anywhere. Yeah  if that happened, the Reapers would have a problem. But it never happened. The Reapers take steps to keep that from happening. It's weird that you don't believe the worldbuilding Vigil that the Keepers keep (no pun intended) anyone from poking around the Citadel, but you take the last second infodump Catalyst's claims about synthetics and organics as absolute truth. But we've already established that you know nothing about writing or story telling.

 

 

 

I can accept the citadel can connect with Alpha Relay to speed them into power. I can accept that the Citadel is unique in that it can launch them all right into dark space without needing another one.  But I can't accept your logic which seems to stat that 12 people could bring everything the Reapers have done up to this point to a grinding halt.

 

Then you can't accept the story of Mass Effect. This is your problem, not mine.

 

 

The waiting the attempting other options to take the citadel make sense in that perspective. They didn't want a repeat of last time so they were being extra cautious.

 

Ilos wasn't missed because the Reapers took the Citadel immediately. The Reapers might know that the Citadel data isn't exhaustive, but that doesn't make it useless. Besides controlling the Relay Network is still the main reason to take the Citadel.