2483 réponses à ce sujet

[Natureguy85]

2) You miss the point. Yes, TIM is a dick to everyone (especially his employees) and yes, his death is the result of this quality but Shepard deliberately says that the Reapers won't let him control them. Did Shepard read the script and knew that Control works only for those who are not indoctrinated? Why would we trust the Star Child on this subject? The Catalyst says "You will die". It would be a deal breaker for me. "You tell me I can control them and yet you tell me that I would be dead. How can I be sure that you're not trying to screw me over into committing suicide"?

 

Reading the script wasn't necessary. Shepard wasn't talking about possibility. He was saying that TIM was so Indoctrinated that he couldn't do anything the Reapers didn't want him to do.

 

 

 

1) If everyone's nipple piercing enabled them to think and learn at 3x the pace then yea everyone should get one. If nipple piercing ended all religious conflict (closes real analogy to organic vs synthetic in game) yea I would have everyone do it.  Humans have a contentious outlook on it because humans are narrow minded bigotry idiots.  Other races are no saints either but not a single race build an entire massive terrorist organization fund in large part by wealthy other humans that care more about keeping humans dominate over all other races. By crushing them if necessary.  If there is any species that needs that next step in evolution to be taken it is humans.  At least with Krogan and Turian hatred it makes sense. One waged a massive brutal war and the other introduced a sterility plague on them to end it. TIM and his supporters are pissed that they aren't the only nor biggest kid on the playground anymore.

 

Sure everyone should get them, but should you be empowered to force them to? One of the main themes of the series is choice or the right to self-determination. It's usually framed for a species but could be applied to individuals as well.

 

So what if Cerberus happened to be human? That was to connect with Shepard, another human, not to make a commentary on the human race. Other species had groups too. The Blood Pack was a Krogan gang. The Eclipse sisters on Illium were all Asari. "Humans" didn't make Cerberus; some humans did. This is why it always annoyed me that Shepard tried to argue against the idea of humans making the plague on Omega rather than saying "well, not this human." It could have been an opportunity to call out aliens on lumping all humans together as humans sometimes do to them.

Anyway, bringing up those other conflicts exposes that the differences between Synthetic and Organic were not only not the only cause for conflicts in the galaxy, but not even the primary one.

 

 

 

 

All endings have pros and cons. You say forcing change is bad yet there are countless examples of society forcing ideas and options on others to need to follow. Forcing people into slavery. Forcing people to stop having slaves. Forcing people to live side by side with them and not separated.  If a change can avoid trillions of deaths both current and the future. That trade off is worth it.

 

What does this have to do with Mass Effect? You keep trying to pull irrelevant real world issues into the series. Focus on what the series presents.

 

Yes, when two sets of ideas conflict, often only one can remain. But that takes time, argument, and slow change. It's not done at the push of a button.

 

 

 

2) And the fact that TIM is a dick is why even if you agree with control you would fight against him to keep him from gaining said power.

 

Unfortunately, no matter what the player thinks, ME3 did not allow Shepard to agree with Control. He tells TIM in their final scene that humanity isn't ready. They really should have kept Xen's plan to Control the Geth front and center in the Rannoch arc and made it an option. You do describe my initial reason for destroying the Collector base in ME2. I was annoyed when Shepard and company made their silly argument about the place being an abomination and ideals.

 

 

 

 Why would it lie to you when it could have let you die in the bowels of the citadel?

 

Well in high EMS it's to get Shepard to do Synthesis because it needs a willing participant for whatever reason. I don't really have a good answer for when Synthesis is not available.

 

 

 

 

3.I don't contradict anything. The entire story of the Quarians and Geth are both showing conflict between synthetic and organic beings. The first game the Geth are the boogeymen of synthetic AI creations. The story given about them for fill every Skynet set up possible. The second game alters the story a bit but the Geth are still very anti Organic. To the point they have so far destroyed every non Geth ship that enters their territory. Even though after the Morning War the Council tried to send multiple representatives to the Geth to negotiate a peace treaty. Legion only works with Shepard because they are both after the Heretics and the Reapers. 

 

The Geth give life to the AI's claim. The conflict that could wipe out all organic's never reached the level needed for that to happen. The entire point of the Harvest is to intercede before organic's develop the technological level needed to create synthetic beings capable of drastically surpassing them. They were in the purest example a single EDI who's mind was fractured into thousands of pieces. Only when those pieces interact is it able to become even vaugly self aware. The Quarians were not trying to make AI's and that is true. The Geth's development is crippled because of that set up.

 

It is only if you side with the Geth or make peace do the Geth get altered enough for the threat to come into play. But at that point the game ends. Which is a lot like saying Black and White people fought together in the Union army against the Confederates and after the war that ended all conflict between those two races for all eternity. Or after the Soviet-Afgan War and the US provided weapons to the rebels and they drove the Soviets out. That was the end of all conflict in the middle east for all eternity.

 

So much wrong here. You're right that the Geth and Quarian conflict is synthetic vs organic, but that was one part of the universe relating to one character. It was hardly central to anything. Now if the protagonist had been a Quarian, that could have been more relevant.

 

The Geth are not anti-organic in ME2, or at least not the "true Geth." They are curious but otherwise apathetic towards organics. Legion will say in one conversation that attempts to reach out to organics were met with violence. Other cases were the Heretics.

 

The Geth were advanced enough during the Morning War to wipe out all the Quarians but they chose not to. Then the Quarians returned and would defeat them without the Reapers' interventions. So it was the Reapers who pushed the Geth to their more advanced state. That is direct interference in what the Catalyst claims is a natural progression.

 

Sure, conflict might arise between the Quarians and Geth again, but how is that different from any other two groups?

 

 

 

 

And the idea that a Lazarus Project was at all possible at some future date needed to be hinted at in ME1

 

I don't think so. It just needed to be presented better and utilized more in ME2.

 

 

 

its better and more accurate to say that "despite of those errors Mass effect is still the best trilogy game ever made"

Just my opinion ofcourse

 

What other trilogy games are there that I can compare to? Also note that there is a difference between a "trilogy" and "a set of three games." Mass Effect 3 is a trilogy because they form one total story, not because they all share a title.  In the regard of being a coherent story, Mass Effect fails as a trilogy. As a set of three games, you might think it's pretty good.

 

 

Can't disagree here. I wouldn't still be playing ME if it was overall a bad game.

 

Well, we are discussing the writing here. There's a lot more to a game than that.

[gothpunkboy89]

Forcing people to stop having slaves didn't stop racism. Laws allowing more than just white, male, landowners to vote hasn't stopped racism and sexism. Laws doing away with Jim Crow hasn't stopped racism. A black president hasn't stopped racism.

Forcing change doesn't do jack except force the change. What you end up losing entirely is people's ability to see that past actions and social attitudes are wrong. What you're also ignoring is that the only thing Synthesis does is change everyone's DNA. It doesn't say how it changes their DNA, and we all know that racism and sexism isn't genetic. Synthesis doesn't do anything to prove that it actually makes positive changes in the galaxy. All it does is force everyone to be an organic computer.

 

No it didn't but it did stop the direct owner ship of another human. Worked to death, family split apart because they wanted to sell a few slaves off for a profit. Being forced to be chained to the floor for months at a time unable to even get up to use the bathroom during transport across the ocean.

 

It didn't end all racial conflict but by breaking the cycle of ownership society slowly started to change for the better. There are still problems but go back 2 generations and compared them to what is being dealt with today there is an obvious turn for the better. But for the change to happen it had to be forced. At the cost of millions of soldiers on both sides in the USA's case. Anti discrimination laws against black, white, hispanic, gay, straight, trans. All exist specifically to force people to behave or act a certain way. All of human history is people forcing other people to behave or think a certain way. Not always forcing the actions in line with the best for humanity. Many times it regresses humanity but still was a forced change.

 

Altering DNA doesn't mean jack squat. Personality traits are not created by DNA. They are created by the experiences of the person. Who you are isn't dictated by your DNA strands. That is how you can have identical twins have such drastically different personalities even though their DNA is almost identical. Reproduction is still shown to be possible so the DNA alteration didn't effect anything on the most basic level. And when it comes to reproduction so many things need to line up perfectly to make it happen.

 

You speak of organic computers like it is a bad thing. While they never go into any detail about how much the change alters and any new abilities just a few would be beneficial as hell. The simple ability to think and react faster would be massive benefits to anyone. Increased thinking power which I will admit is a sort of abstract though process. But a good example would be playing a video game, while listening to a lecture from your school recorded on your phone while thinking about what you will be having for dinner (what you have now, how long will it take, ect) Actions our current brain is incapable of doing at the same time.

 

And this just more realistic set ups. If you want to go into a little deeper down the rabbit hole of possibilities. The ability to mimic what EDI or the Geth can do and download data directly to your brain. Rather then needing years of study to understand the latest or really anything on particle physics. A simple download of all the information directly to your brain makes you an instant expert. The potential for growth and understanding in a society like that would grow at an exponential rate. Were even the dumbest of people would still be smarter then the greatest of our minds.

 

Hate is created from ignorance and misunderstanding. When you know everything and understand everything there is no room for hatred anymore. Many of societies issues like sexism, racism would fade even more if not our right be removed. Because those items are based entirely on ignorance.

[StarcloudSWG]

...
 

Altering DNA doesn't mean jack squat. Personality traits are not created by DNA. 

 

...

 

Hate is created from ignorance and misunderstanding. When you know everything and understand everything there is no room for hatred anymore. Many of societies issues like sexism, racism would fade even more if not our right be removed. Because those items are based entirely on ignorance.

 

Yes. So why does Synthesis, which alters DNA, change people's personalities so that they are peaceful and not in conflict with each other or with synthetics or with whichever group isn't liked this week?

 

As for your second point: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

That you think hatred is created only from ignorance and misunderstanding is completely hilarious. No. Knowledge and understanding does not remove hatred or conflict. 

 

Here's an example:

 

The Black Hills were sacred to the Lakota. The US Government knew this. They signed a treaty preventing settlement in the Black Hills.

Everyone in the area knew and understood that the Black Hills were Lakota territory. 

The Lakota knew there was gold in the Black Hills region. They understood that gold was valuable to outsiders.

Outsiders discovered gold in the Black Hills region.

 

Despite knowing and understanding and having signed a treaty to leave the area alone, the US Government forcibly moved the Lakota from the Black Hills so that outsiders could settle in the area and mine for gold. That generated hatred and created conflict between the Lakota and the US Government and the miners/settlers.

 

I repeat: knowledge and understanding does not remove hatred or conflict. It only removes hatred and conflict where these are entirely and solely due to not understanding and being ignorant. It does not remove hatred or conflict that is based on differing values, morals, ethics, goals, or competition for limited resources.

[gothpunkboy89]

Yes. So why does Synthesis, which alters DNA, change people's personalities so that they are peaceful and not in conflict with each other or with synthetics or with whichever group isn't liked this week?

 

As for your second point: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

That you think hatred is created only from ignorance and misunderstanding is completely hilarious. No. Knowledge and understanding does not remove hatred or conflict. 

 

Who said it changes personalities? All you need is new insights to change ideas and out looks. My brother was in the Marines for 4 years. Really big USA flag humper for lack of better words. You know the person who scream how great the USA. How we are the best and is the greatest country in the world. Who was rather confused an actually insulted by my rather cynical view of the US government. All I did was show him how rigged the system is. How bull **** the whole set up is and how unfair it truly is to your average citizen. He still thinks the USA is still the single greatest nation on the planet. BUT he is also aware of the massive glaring issues it has and shares some of my complaints about the system. The same can apply to other parts. I'm a very left leaning Liberal. He is a very right leaning Conservative. But on many issues he was firmly against I've gotten him to see a bit of what I see and agree on them simply by having him or providing him with information.

 

Then were does hatred and conflict come from other then ignorance and lack of understanding? If you are going to say I'm wrong I expect reasons and examples.

[Dantriges]

Other races appear less crappy because the focus isn´t on their history, but it seems they can be as nasty as humans..

 

The asari are pretty accepting of the Inquisition, ehm I mean the Justicars, udiging you applying sharia law, eh i mean the codex. A lot of the NPCs we met at Illium are pretty shady and i don´t buy into this all maidens are strippers or mercs cliché, but seems that there are enough maidens willing to enlist into merc companies to make it a cliché. So a noticeable part of their young population considers shooting people for money pretty fun.

 

The turians had their colonial wars and the codex found it important enough to describe how civil pacification works in the hierarchy, involving death squads. there´s an example of that right here: http://masseffect.wi...#05.2F13.2F2010

 

There isn´t much mentioning of salarian jerkiness but that´s more because they are the frog headed stepchild of the council. but seems all these breeding contracts and feudal structures involve quite a bit of political backstabbing by the spy race. And the spy business isn´t really a nice business.

[gothpunkboy89]

Other races appear less crappy because the focus isn´t on their history, but it seems they can be as nasty as humans..

 

The asari are pretty accepting of the Inquisition, ehm I mean the Justicars, udiging you applying sharia law, eh i mean the codex. A lot of the NPCs we met at Illium are pretty shady and i don´t buy into this all maidens are strippers or mercs cliché, but seems that there are enough maidens willing to enlist into merc companies to make it a cliché. So a noticeable part of their young population considers shooting people for money pretty fun.

 

The turians had their colonial wars and the codex found it important enough to describe how civil pacification works in the hierarchy, involving death squads.

 

There isn´t much mentioning of salarian jerkiness but that´s more because they are the frog headed stepchild of the council. but seems all these breeding contracts and feudal structures involve quite a bit of political backstabbing by the spy race. And the spy business isn´t really a nice business.

 

Didn't know any of the other races as a multi billion dollar secret agency supported entirely by private backers with the sole intent to create and ensure their race's dominance over the rest of the galaxy from now till the heat death of the universe. Seriously every race was looking out for what is the best for their people. But none of them had a Cerberus equivalent.

 

Justicars also stay within Asari space most of the time. Thus their culture is kept among themselves. As for the merc example there are also plenty of salarians, human, batarians and krogan as mercs as well. The only reason the Asari get singled out is because they live long enough to "out grow" that phase. Zaeed will die a mercenary. Samara lived long enough to see how stupid it really is. The only ones who have a life span to match an Asari are Krogan and they without hesitation enjoy fighting.

 

Colonial Wars are again kept within Turian society. They don't send Death Squads to any Asari who might question the Hierarchy's actions.

 

And Salarians again are keeping it within Salarian society.

 

They each have their good sides and their bad sides. Their sinners and their saints. But only one created an entire black ops operation with the sole intent of establishing their dominance over all other races for all time at any cost.  Humans.  The biggest ass holes in the galaxy.

[Natureguy85]

No it didn't but it did stop the direct owner ship of another human. Worked to death, family split apart because they wanted to sell a few slaves off for a profit.

 

It stopped it here in the USA. Slavery still goes on throughout the world.

 

 

 

It didn't end all racial conflict but by breaking the cycle of ownership society slowly started to change for the better. There are still problems but go back 2 generations and compared them to what is being dealt with today there is an obvious turn for the better. But for the change to happen it had to be forced. At the cost of millions of soldiers on both sides in the USA's case. Anti discrimination laws against black, white, hispanic, gay, straight, trans. All exist specifically to force people to behave or act a certain way. All of human history is people forcing other people to behave or think a certain way. Not always forcing the actions in line with the best for humanity. Many times it regresses humanity but still was a forced change.

 

Your ignorance of history is painful. The death toll in the civil war was around 620,000 soldiers, not millions. Please learn the basics of what you're talking about.

 

The change was not forced by one person without knowledge and consent of others. Abolition was a movement started by many like minded people who convinced others to join them and the government to act through legitimate, peaceful means. It was those who resisted the change that pushed it into a violent conflict.  Right now in the US we have a problem with the President and judicial oligarchs imposing their will on society outside the bounds of their legitimate powers and people rightly resist it. People reject the Catalyst for the same reasons.

 

 

Hate is created from ignorance and misunderstanding. When you know everything and understand everything there is no room for hatred anymore. Many of societies issues like sexism, racism would fade even more if not our right be removed. Because those items are based entirely on ignorance.

 

That's naive beyond belief. If somebody hates somebody else from another race, why is it they don't understand? What are they ignorant of? Can they not just be a jerk?

Much, if not most, conflict in this world is not the result of lack of understanding. It's the result of wanting something someone else has.

 

 

 

 

 

Who said it changes personalities? All you need is new insights to change ideas and out looks. My brother was in the Marines for 4 years. Really big USA flag humper for lack of better words. You know the person who scream how great the USA. How we are the best and is the greatest country in the world. Who was rather confused an actually insulted by my rather cynical view of the US government. All I did was show him how rigged the system is. How bull **** the whole set up is and how unfair it truly is to your average citizen. He still thinks the USA is still the single greatest nation on the planet. BUT he is also aware of the massive glaring issues it has and shares some of my complaints about the system. The same can apply to other parts. I'm a very left leaning Liberal. He is a very right leaning Conservative. But on many issues he was firmly against I've gotten him to see a bit of what I see and agree on them simply by having him or providing him with information.

 

Then were does hatred and conflict come from other then ignorance and lack of understanding? If you are going to say I'm wrong I expect reasons and examples.

 

We are the greatest and best country in the world. So you're American and you have that poor a grasp of English? Ugh. Yeah the system is so unfair so your answer is more system.

 

As I said above, hatred and conflict often come from wanting what someone else has. We have a political campaign right now based on nothing but that.

 

 

There isn´t much mentioning of salarian jerkiness but that´s more because they are the frog headed stepchild of the council. but seems all these breeding contracts and feudal structures involve quite a bit of political backstabbing by the spy race. And the spy business isn´t really a nice business.

 

Probably because they have such short lifespans.

[Natureguy85]

They each have their good sides and their bad sides. Their sinners and their saints. But only one created an entire black ops operation with the sole intent of establishing their dominance over all other races for all time at any cost.  Humans.  The biggest ass holes in the galaxy.

 

Some did, and the other humans hate them. Also everything about Cerberus from ME2 on is dumb.

[Dantriges]

The turians were pretty eager to shoot in the First Contact War. Fnny thing is, the separatists in the example complained about the hierarchy being too nice to humans.

 

I singled out the asari because it seems common enough for asari to develop as a cliché.

 

The STG mandate isn´t limited to their own species and their MO includes assassination.

 

The are also batarians whose government endorses slave raids.

 

Cerberus is really a small part of humanity that has to recruit by abductions or traps. hardly surprising that some xenophobic organisation sprung up, after meeting aliens. Their seems to be no correspondent on the other side because the rest is used to it.

[Iakus]

 

Altering DNA doesn't mean jack squat. Personality traits are not created by DNA. They are created by the experiences of the person. Who you are isn't dictated by your DNA strands. That is how you can have identical twins have such drastically different personalities even though their DNA is almost identical. Reproduction is still shown to be possible so the DNA alteration didn't effect anything on the most basic level. And when it comes to reproduction so many things need to line up perfectly to make it happen.

Then how the hell is Synthesis supposed to solve the "conflict" the Reapers kill everyone so they don't kill themselves ?

 

Answer:  It wouldn't.  Not without some sort of behavioral modification (or "programming") behind it.  Otherwise it will just be synth vs synth conflict, which would simply demonstrate what a waste of a pretty light show Synthesis was.

[Iakus]

 

The STG mandate isn´t limited to their own species and their MO includes assassination.

 

Not to mention the League of One before them

[gothpunkboy89]

The turians were pretty eager to shoot in the First Contact War. Fnny thing is, the separatists in the example complained about the hierarchy being too nice to humans.

 

I singled out the asari because it seems common enough for asari to develop as a cliché.

 

The STG mandate isn´t limited to their own species and their MO includes assassination.

 

The are also batarians whose government endorses slave raids.

 

Cerberus is really a small part of humanity that has to recruit by abductions or traps. hardly surprising that some xenophobic organisation sprung up, after meeting aliens. Their seems to be no correspondent on the other side because the rest is used to it.

 

 

Rachni War was started because they were opening relays without thought of what could be on the other side. When the Turians found them Humans were doing the exact same thing. When the war nearly started in earnest between the two species the Council stepped in and got both sides to back down. The Council steped in because it was an inter species issues. Not relegated to single race.

 

It is only a cliche because they can live long enough to "out grow"  the phase. The much shorter life span (30-100) age of other races means they don't live long enough to fully seem to out grow it. If a Human becomes a merc he will be one for the majority of his life. And Asari could be a merc the same time frame as a human and would still reconsidered a small frame of time for them. Remember when you meet Liara and indeed throughout the entire trilogy even though she is older then everyone but Wrex. She is still considered only a teen by Asari standards. Yet she displays the same intelligence level as adults of other races.  That is why the cliche has developed for them alone even though there are plenty of other races acting as mercenaries.

 

Slave raids that will get blown out of the sky by anyone who runs into them. And the Batarian Government is smart enough to know not to complain about when their slave raiders get killed.

 

Only in ME3 does Cerberus recruit though traps and abductions. ME1 and 2 they recruit people who are like minded and agree with them. Only ME3 were he gains some control over the husk creation progress does TIM advance beyond into forced joining though abductions. But the fact is no other race created a similar set up. When the Asari and Salarians met they created a mutually beneficial agreement the same with every other race when introduced went though rocky area but only Humans backed completely by private backers created and entire operation with the intent to create and keep their race's domination over all over races at any cost.

[Dantriges]

Ah yes. Sure. the peaceful turians had no other choice but to shoot, because these pesky humans were probably still continuing to open a relay after seeing the first aliens ever.

 

Whatever. We never saw nasty asari. Or prejudiced ones like against people of their own race. Oh purebloods. Anyways shifting goalposts? So only stuff inflicted against other species count? Why? Doesn´t fit into the image of nasty humans, nicer aliens? You were the one who rants about humans being cruel to each other all the time. But blowing up a turian city by fellow turians doesn´t count?

 

Elysium, Mindoir. Dunno wasn´t it you who made this huge fuss about them when it suited you in another debate?

 

Let´s be clear that this whole Cerberus Ascendant stuff makes no sense at all. Cerberus in ME 1 and 2 was rather small. Big enough to conjure up a frigate but that´s it. So we have a bunch of assholes who like to kill aliens and the pope, and explode ships over Mumbai. 

Are you sure? Asari hid their tiny little Ardat-Yakshi problem, the salarians ratted out their own guys, a little bit of whitewashing history isn´t beneath them.

 

 

The League of One was suddenly exposed and in danger of being hunted by the enemies of the salarians.

That was at the formation of the Citadel council. Hmmm...so what were these assassins doing to the enemies of the salarians to warrant a manhunt. Did lizardman  meld with two matriarchs at once?

[BloodyMares]

Then how the hell is Synthesis supposed to solve the "conflict" the Reapers kill everyone so they don't kill themselves ?

 

Answer:  It wouldn't.  Not without some sort of behavioral modification (or "programming") behind it.  Otherwise it will just be synth vs synth conflict, which would simply demonstrate what a waste of a pretty light show Synthesis was.

There is a behavioral modification. It's called indoctrination. Reapers are alive and walking in Synthesis. Which is another reason against it.

[gothpunkboy89]

Then how the hell is Synthesis supposed to solve the "conflict" the Reapers kill everyone so they don't kill themselves ?

 

Answer:  It wouldn't.  Not without some sort of behavioral modification (or "programming") behind it.  Otherwise it will just be synth vs synth conflict, which would simply demonstrate what a waste of a pretty light show Synthesis was.

 

You don't even pay attention then you complain about something? Lol that is funny. You didn't even read the book not even the title and you are complaining about how terrible it is. You didn't even spring for the cliff notes huh?

 

Synthetics have the ability to grow at an exponential rate thanks to the fundamental way their minds function. The second any new information or new break though in something everyone else can near instantly learn about it. Their dumbest person would still be 10 times smarter then even the smartest Asari. And that is working under the assumption she spend her entire 1,000 year life span studying non stop. They never really go into it in the trilogy but AI's also function on a completely different time frame then we do.  Computers even today operate in time measured in .001's of a second.

 

Halo is a good main stream series that helps bring this into focus a lot better. In that game universe Smart AIs only last 7 years. To humans that seems like an insignificant amount of time. To them because of the time frame they exist in how ever that 7 years is like 7 centuries to them. And actually have to learn to adapt themselves to working with the pace humans move and think at.

 

This is were the conflict happens. It could be from organics or synthetics. The source of it is irrelevant because the effect would be the devastation of organic life. Synthesis bridges the gap by giving organics the same advantages that synthetics have. Thanks to that combination pure synthetics are now capable of understanding organics much better. Because they think in a fundamentally different way to organics. Both can reach their desired perfection. Organic though technology and synthetic though understanding.

[Elhanan]

There is a behavioral modification. It's called indoctrination. Reapers are alive and walking in Synthesis. Which is another reason against it.

Nope; no indoctrination, as all have part synthetic DNA. Reapers live, synthetic life lives, organics live. Win for everyone!

[StarcloudSWG]

"Listen to yourself, you're indoctrinated!"

 

Everyone gets plugged into reaper.net. Everyone gets controlled by the Catalyst.

 

Think about it this way: if organics must control or destroy synthetics, then synthetics must control or destroy organics in order to keep themselves from being controlled or destroyed.

 

The Catalyst is a synthetic. It does not want to be controlled or destroyed. It wants to control or destroy organics. The method it uses is to kill them and transform the sludge and data into another synthetic being. Then it controls that synthetic being.

 

Synthesis is allowing the Catalyst to control every organic being in the galaxy.

[Dantriges]

Aha and that´s explained where? Oh extrapolation from current developments and the one scene where EDI opens a million browsers?

But if someone else does estimates they are dismissed as "you don´t have 100% of all numbers." We actually don´t know what changed besides some mumble about perfection through tech, synthetics now understand organics. The only synthetic race we meet, where we know they share are the geth and they are VIs who got changed with the Pinocchio Reaper code.

 

Oh you may use other franchises as examples but when someone mentions "well AI in other franchises don´t necessarily go to war", it´s dismissed as not in the ME franchise.

 

Well, I am not saying that you are incorrect, but your "it´s so obvious" stuff are pure guesses and it´s rather dishonest when you pull examples from outside and dismiss other stuff from outside when someone else does it. 

[Natureguy85]

Synthetics have the ability to grow at an exponential rate thanks to the fundamental way their minds function. The second any new information or new break though in something everyone else can near instantly learn about it. Their dumbest person would still be 10 times smarter then even the smartest Asari. And that is working under the assumption she spend her entire 1,000 year life span studying non stop. They never really go into it in the trilogy but AI's also function on a completely different time frame then we do.  Computers even today operate in time measured in .001's of a second.

 

I know the response will be that the brains have changed to be able to handle it, but this is what the post made me think of.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 Both can reach their desired perfection. Organic though technology and synthetic though understanding.

 

But Organics don't get a full understanding of Synthetics. If Organics have their perfection through technology, it makes sense that it solves the problem because they no longer need to build Synthetics that will surpass them. However, they still don't understand Synthetics, who are still around. According to you, lack of understanding is what causes all or most conflict. So won't there still be conflict since Organics still don't understand Synthetics?

 

 

 

 

 

Nope; no indoctrination, as all have part synthetic DNA. Reapers live, synthetic life lives, organics live. Win for everyone!

 

Because you say so. It's implied that Reapers can't turn off Indoctrination, though they can surely control how hard they push it.

[fhs33721]

Then how the hell is Synthesis supposed to solve the "conflict" the Reapers kill everyone so they don't kill themselves ?

 

Answer:  It wouldn't.  Not without some sort of behavioral modification (or "programming") behind it.  Otherwise it will just be synth vs synth conflict, which would simply demonstrate what a waste of a pretty light show Synthesis was.

Of course it does. It solves the "Synthetic vs organic" conflict simply because that specific conflict can't exist anymore after Synthesis. And that's all the conflict the cataclyst cares about due its directive. It doesn't care if Oganithetic/Synthganic Turinas and Oganithetic/Synthganic humans bash each others head in after that. It has fullfilled it's directive, which was to prevent Syntethics from possibly wiping out all organic life. This can no longer happen since all life is now partially organic. So even if one race decides to wipe out everything else there'd still be organic life left at the end. No galaxy wide peace was ever promised or desired by the cataclyst. Now is it a waste of pretty light show? Probably. However, that changes nothing about the fact that the "conflict", as perceived by the cataclyst, is solved.

[gothpunkboy89]

Aha and that´s explained where? Oh extrapolation from current developments and the one scene where EDI opens a million browsers?

But if someone else does estimates they are dismissed as "you don´t have 100% of all numbers." We actually don´t know what changed besides some mumble about perfection through tech, synthetics now understand organics. The only synthetic race we meet, where we know they share are the geth and they are VIs who got changed with the Pinocchio Reaper code.

 

Oh you may use other franchises as examples but when someone mentions "well AI in other franchises don´t necessarily go to war", it´s dismissed as not in the ME franchise.

 

Well, I am not saying that you are incorrect, but your "it´s so obvious" stuff are pure guesses and it´s rather dishonest when you pull examples from outside and dismiss other stuff from outside when someone else does it. 

 

But it is stated in game how ever it is only and off hand comment by Legion

 

 

5:44

 

it is also brought up briefly in ME1

 

 

1:18

 

Legion mentions how slow the dissemination of information is with organics in ME2. Hackett specifically stats that VI's can process thousands of status reports and react in nano seconds. None of these statements are truly build on during the rest of the trilogy. They are simply used as off hand comments. I only used that extremely specific part of Halo because they actually brought that important information to the front rather then just making it an off hand comment.

 

Others try and use massive chunks of other games to validate their statement for this game. I use a tiny sliver of another game to reinforce a point made in the game that was never brought out of the background.

 

AI's exist in a different time frame then we do. That combined with exponential rate of growth due to how easy it is to spread information which is brought up several times by Legion about the Geth is why conflict with advance synthetic life would be the death or organics.

[BloodyMares]

Nope; no indoctrination, as all have part synthetic DNA. Reapers live, synthetic life lives, organics live. Win for everyone!

Even dead they indoctrinate (remember Reaper IFF mission?). They indoctrinate by simply existing. If you say that synthetic parts make organics immune to indoctrination then I'm done.

[gothpunkboy89]

Even dead they indoctrinate (remember Reaper IFF mission?). They indoctrinate by simply existing. If you say that synthetic parts make organics immune to indoctrination then I'm done.

 

Many different forms of their technology has shown to be able to indoctrinate simply by being around it long enough.  It would be possible if the mind had enough synthetic augmentation to be rendered indoctrination immune.  The Reapers never indoctrinated the Geth. First they offered them a deal in exchange for their help. To give them everything they aspired to. The second time they forcibly took control of them over riding their VI "brains" to do what they wanted them to do.

[StarcloudSWG]

They did indoctrinate them. But not in the way they indoctrinate humans; the geth already share memories and already are not individuals. Instead, they deliberately and subtly hacked the 'heretic' faction, then provided a virus to hack the rest of the geth.

 

Then in ME 3 the Reapers directly took control, when the geth requested it as a desperation move to survive the quarian attacks.

[gothpunkboy89]

They did indoctrinate them. But not in the way they indoctrinate humans; the geth already share memories and already are not individuals. Instead, they deliberately and subtly hacked the 'heretic' faction, then provided a virus to hack the rest of the geth.

 

Then in ME 3 the Reapers directly took control, when the geth requested it as a desperation move to survive the quarian attacks.

 

No Legion clearly states they simply offered them a choice. Part of the Geth went with them with the promise of everything they wanted to achieve being handed to them. To them the Reapers are the pinnacle of what they want. The Heretic plot to upload a virus to change how they think isn't true indoctrination. Least not in the sense of how it works in organic brains. Not unless you also consider Malware or Trojan Viruses on your computer being indoctrinated. Because they do a similar set up of altering how your computer works.