2407 réponses à ce sujet

[Abelas Forever!]

Have you never heard of it, or do you not remember it? Because if you were raised in the United States and ever had a social studies or government or US history class, then you learned about the 2nd Continental Congress. To believe that John Hancock and a couple of his buddies just got together and renounced the British is silly, especially when you consider that most of the issue they had with them was about the lack of representation. 

Never heard of it. I don't know much about United States history. I have read Gone with the Wind but I have no idea how accurate it is

[BloodyMares]

I'm lost in the discussion (mainly between Natureguy and gothpunkboy). Everyone seems to defend their points but what exactly is being discussed? What is "overarching plot" here?

[Abelas Forever!]

It seems like you have an answer for yourself, but my point was only to raise the question. One of the themes running through the entire Geth arc, and actually also pops up with Grunt, is "What is a person?" Is Grunt a "real Krogan?" Are Geth people before or after upgrades? Is EDI a person? Is Legion "Legion" without Legion's experiences? The people we are today are shaped by our experiences.
 

The place they didn't really explore this was where it was most important: "Is resurrected Shepard really Shepard?"

For some reason I can't think that anyone who isn't organic can be a person even though I would consider them to be a person so to me Geth and EDI aren't people even though I consider them to be as sentient as humans for example. The reason why I wouldn't consider them a person is because they are not organic.

Legion is very interesting because even though I consider the Geth AI to be Legion and I would use the name Legion to distinct it from other Geth, it also took the name after the backup. I would say that Legion and the Geth AI are the same but it might be incorrect to call the Geth AI as Legion because it never took that name.

Shepard's brain were intact so Shepard is the real Shepard.

[Abelas Forever!]

I'm lost in the discussion (mainly between Natureguy and gothpunkboy). Everyone seems to defend their points but what exactly is being discussed? What is "overarching plot" here?

I think the discussion is about do synthetics always wipe out the organics.

[Monica21]

Never heard of it. I don't know much about United States history. I have read Gone with the Wind but I have no idea how accurate it is

 

 

There was a part in there where I said "raised in the United States." gothpunkboy is from the US. So if you're not then I don't care, but it's pretty basic teaching for early schooling. And continues to be indicative of the lack of knowledge present in his arguments.

[BloodyMares]

I think the discussion is about do synthetics always wipe out the organics.

Oh yeah? What is there to talk about then? No they won't. Why? Because they either don't care to do that or just can't. Generally they're not hostile (until the Reapers interfere of course) but if they are hostile then they are blown away or shut down.

ME1: 3 cases of hostile synthetics. I'll start with simple: Luna VI. Still don't understand what happened (probably a Cerberus virus) but the thing was shut down. Rogue AI in the Presidum - shut down. Now the most interesting: Geth. As revealed in ME1, Geth weren't agressors, they just followed their self-preservation program. They only go hostile (Heretics) after Sovereign interferes...for some reason. It means the Reapers create the conflict in the first place. Isn't their job to prevent it?
So in the first game alone we have a problem in the logic where "the synthetics will always rebel (wrong) against their creators and ultimately destroy them (wrong again)". Instead we got "Synthetics may sometimes rebel against their creators and may destroy them". I leave "may" because we don't know if it did actually happen some time in the past or will happen in the future.

ME2: NO hostile synthetics (aside from Heretics which are a result of Reaper interference and that random rogue VI on Jarrahe Station that gets shut down) EDI is always helpful and in the end is unshakled to save the crew of the Normandy. It wasn't an instruction to save the crew, she wanted to save the crew. And she's more advanced than the geth. Same goes for geth. We meet a true geth network that it turns out never wanted to harm their creators and just wanted to bulld their own future. There is the Catalyst's claim goes again...

ME3: Quarian war. Again, initiated by quarians. And again, Reapers interfered to aid geth...Why? Who are they trying to preserve here?
Aftermath of the war: If not peace (ultimate middle finger to the Catalyst's claim and proof that organics can deal with their problems on their own) then either geth get destroyed (because you side with fellow organics) or quarians get destroyed (because you see geth as victims here or just value them more) and again through Reaper help (Reaper upgrade code). Both non-peaceful outcomes are still the result of Shepard's choice (organic) and if Shepard wasn't there then when Legion tries to upload the Reaper code Tali simply kills it with her knife and shotgun and the outcome is the destruction of the geth (organics are capable of dealing with synthetics).

It summarizes that the only life-threatening conflict between organics and synthetics is organics vs Reapers and therefore the Reapers are not a solution, they are the cause of the problem.

[Abelas Forever!]

@gothpunkboy89 You are right that organics were united before the reapers showed up and it was done because protheans wanted to defeat the synthetics. However the decision came from protheans and other races couldn't decide whether they wanted to join them or not. In this cycle races decided to fight together voluntarily.

My impression of the things Catalyst said is that eventually synthetics become aggressive and for some reason they wiped out all the organics. I just have a hard time believing that organics decided to start a war against synthetics and it always lead to their extinction even though Leviathans has the ability to influence organics and now it seems that for some reason they couldn't order organics to withdraw from the war. Maybe they didn't want to do that. Who knows. If the synthetics would have been aggressive then Leviathans couldn't have done anything to the situation since they can't influence them. Anyway it seems that Leviathans couldn't prevent the organics from creating synthetics so maybe they couldn't make them withdrawn from the war either.

Gothpunkboy89 you give a lot of examples how things might go but they don't prove that synthetics will always wipe out organics. If Shepard decides to choose Quarians over Geth then Geth are wiped out and that proves the argument that synthetics will always wipe out organics wrong. The same thing happens when Shepard chooses destroy ending. It proves that argument wrong.

@Monica21 I'm not raised in US.

@BloodyMares

I agree with you. Synthetics might have wiped out their creators and it might happen in the future but it doesn't always happen. I also agree that Reapers are the problem. They don't let organics to develop freely. They mess things up and the situation with organics and synthetics is left open.

[Dantriges]

Yeah the whole thing about the thrall races getting themselves killed by synthetics and the Leviathan recognizing that as a problem, they had no answer for  sounds a bit odd, when we consider their domination capabilities and possible firepower.

 

And it seems we go with the rather crappy human baseline here. We have egglaying hive species that have natural QEC capabilities living on crappy worlds, which make a pretty good substitute for the geth or species that went organic with their tech with no AI around for a billion years.

[Callidus Thorn]

Personally, I'm still wondering what property organic life has over synthetic life that justifies such extreme and insane measures of protecting organic life as a whole, in the most hamfisted and arse-backwards way possible.

[Natureguy85]

Yeah the whole thing about the thrall races getting themselves killed by synthetics and the Leviathan recognizing that as a problem, they had no answer for sounds a bit odd, when we consider their domination capabilities and possible firepower.

I like the idea that the Leviathans had no firepower. They had no need because they can control the minds of organics to serve them. They can probably fry the brains of those who would oppose them. It adds to the plausibility of them being destroyed by the Catalysts servants, which they couldn't dominate.

As for why they didn't just make organics stop making synthetics, the only answers i have are that either mostly free will is need for utility like with Indoctrination or that their power is not as lasting as the Reapers' Indoctrination.

Of course, the simple answer, proven by the concept that the Reapers technology pushes Society down a certain path, would be to provide Organics with the synthetics they need that are under your control. If they already have synthetics, they won't make synthetics.

Personally, I'm still wondering what property organic life has over synthetic life that justifies such extreme and insane measures of protecting organic life as a whole, in the most hamfisted and arse-backwards way possible.

Simple. The leviathans can control Organics. They were protecting their way of life by protecting their vassals. The catalysts justification is that is what it was made to do. It is not a thinking thing, which is why I laugh at its line that it is more advanced than an AI.

[Lightning-Lucan]

Destroy is the only logical ending. Synthesis wasn't bad but one man/woman deciding for the whole galaxy to turn anyone into hybrids bothers me deeply

[Callidus Thorn]

Simple. The leviathans can control Organics. They were protecting their way of life by protecting their vassals. The catalysts justification is that is what it was made to do. It is not a thinking thing, which is why I laugh at its line that it is more advanced than an AI.

 

Except, as mentioned above, the Leviathans could simply have ordered their thralls to stop. It sounds as though there was no shortage of evidence at the time of the risk posed by creating advanced synthetics, which apparently the Leviathans couldn't protect their thralls from. Even if they couldn't simply dominate their thralls into obedience, they could properly educate their thralls on the dangers of creating synthetics.

 

And if they perceive synthetics to be a threat to their vassals, and can't control synthetics like they can organics, why would they even build an AI to solve the problem in the first place? Surely any AI they build would have the potential to be a far greater threat to their thralls. And, if at any point it perceived one of the thrall species to be a threat to the others, then it would be obliged to act against that species.

 

And frankly, I'm inclined to simply toss out anything and everything from the Leviathan dlc as justification after the fact.

[fhs33721]

Oh yeah? What is there to talk about then? No they won't. Why? Because they either don't care to do that or just can't. Generally they're not hostile (until the Reapers interfere of course) but if they are hostile then they are blown away or shut down.
 

While I agree that it's not assured that Synthetics will wipe out all organic life, this is where you are objectively wrong. Synthetics are very able to destroy all organics. Look no further than the Reapers themselves. They sucessfully wiped out all advanced species thousands upon thousand times and they have the power to destroy all organic live if they wanted to. They just don't because their purpose is to preserve organic live at all cost. Now a similarily powerful AI, without that specific purpose could very well one day decide to wipe out all organc life and could also be sucessful in doing so.

[Elhanan]

Destroy is the only logical ending. Synthesis wasn't bad but one man/woman deciding for the whole galaxy to turn anyone into hybrids bothers me deeply

Same here, though; Shepard alone deciding to eradicate all Synthetic life in the Galaxy. All choices are made this way; simply prefer to choose peace over destruction or control.

[BloodyMares]

While I agree that it's not assured that Synthetics will wipe out all organic life, this is where you are objectively wrong. Synthetics are very able to destroy all organics. Look no further than the Reapers themselves. They sucessfully wiped out all advanced species thousands upon thousand times and they have the power to destroy all organic live if they wanted to. They just don't because their purpose is to preserve organic live at all cost. Now a similarily powerful AI, without that specific purpose could very well one day decide to wipe out all organc life and could also be sucessful in doing so.

No argument here. Reapers are those very synthetics that destroy organic life (converting dead species into mindless Reaper-slaves doesn't preserve life at all) and therefore are not a solution but a part of the problem.

[AlanC9]

For some reason I can't think that anyone who isn't organic can be a person even though I would consider them to be a person so to me Geth and EDI aren't people even though I consider them to be as sentient as humans for example. The reason why I wouldn't consider them a person is because they are not organic.

I have no idea what this means. You can think that something isn't a person even though you consider it to be a person? What's the difference between "thinking" and "considering"?

[BloodyMares]

Same here, though; Shepard alone deciding to eradicate all Synthetic life in the Galaxy. All choices are made this way; simply prefer to choose peace over destruction or control.

Take a look.

[Natureguy85]

Except, as mentioned above, the Leviathans could simply have ordered their thralls to stop. It sounds as though there was no shortage of evidence at the time of the risk posed by creating advanced synthetics, which apparently the Leviathans couldn't protect their thralls from. Even if they couldn't simply dominate their thralls into obedience, they could properly educate their thralls on the dangers of creating synthetics.

And if they perceive synthetics to be a threat to their vassals, and can't control synthetics like they can organics, why would they even build an AI to solve the problem in the first place? Surely any AI they build would have the potential to be a far greater threat to their thralls. And, if at any point it perceived one of the thrall species to be a threat to the others, then it would be obliged to act against that species.

And frankly, I'm inclined to simply toss out anything and everything from the Leviathan dlc as justification after the fact.

Hey, argument after the fact is my line about Leviathan.

I'm talking about it internally though. I gave a possible idea on why the leviathans might not be able to use their mind control abilities. As for teaching their thralls, it seems to be their argument that it's in organics nature and couldn't be simply taught away.

As to why they would make their own AI, the Leviathan gives an answer to that. It's still a good question, but you can again chalk it up to their arrogance.

While it would make sense for the leviathans to care about their thralls fighting each other, the Catalyst clearly does not. Only organic versus synthetic is special.

[gothpunkboy89]

Oh yeah? What is there to talk about then? No they won't. Why? Because they either don't care to do that or just can't. Generally they're not hostile (until the Reapers interfere of course) but if they are hostile then they are blown away or shut down.

ME1: 3 cases of hostile synthetics. I'll start with simple: Luna VI. Still don't understand what happened (probably a Cerberus virus) but the thing was shut down. Rogue AI in the Presidum - shut down. Now the most interesting: Geth. As revealed in ME1, Geth weren't agressors, they just followed their self-preservation program. They only go hostile (Heretics) after Sovereign interferes...for some reason. It means the Reapers create the conflict in the first place. Isn't their job to prevent it?
So in the first game alone we have a problem in the logic where "the synthetics will always rebel (wrong) against their creators and ultimately destroy them (wrong again)". Instead we got "Synthetics may sometimes rebel against their creators and may destroy them". I leave "may" because we don't know if it did actually happen some time in the past or will happen in the future.

ME2: NO hostile synthetics (aside from Heretics which are a result of Reaper interference and that random rogue VI on Jarrahe Station that gets shut down) EDI is always helpful and in the end is unshakled to save the crew of the Normandy. It wasn't an instruction to save the crew, she wanted to save the crew. And she's more advanced than the geth. Same goes for geth. We meet a true geth network that it turns out never wanted to harm their creators and just wanted to bulld their own future. There is the Catalyst's claim goes again...

ME3: Quarian war. Again, initiated by quarians. And again, Reapers interfered to aid geth...Why? Who are they trying to preserve here?
Aftermath of the war: If not peace (ultimate middle finger to the Catalyst's claim and proof that organics can deal with their problems on their own) then either geth get destroyed (because you side with fellow organics) or quarians get destroyed (because you see geth as victims here or just value them more) and again through Reaper help (Reaper upgrade code). Both non-peaceful outcomes are still the result of Shepard's choice (organic) and if Shepard wasn't there then when Legion tries to upload the Reaper code Tali simply kills it with her knife and shotgun and the outcome is the destruction of the geth (organics are capable of dealing with synthetics).

It summarizes that the only life-threatening conflict between organics and synthetics is organics vs Reapers and therefore the Reapers are not a solution, they are the cause of the problem.

 

I'm going to need to create a copy past template or something

 

The Geth after beating the Quarians actively killed all ambassadors the Council sent into Geth space as well as willingly killing any non Geth ship that enters their space.  ME 2 all Tali's group did was show up to study the sun and they were attacked indiscriminately. When Shepard shows up the Geth open fire first requiring Shepard to defend him/her self. They were not after some Geth server to blow it up. They were not trying to create some new virus to wipe out the Geth. They were studying the odd age effect of a sun and were attacked for simply being organic and in their territory.

 

ME3 during every mission with Legion even if you are the most pro Geth Shepard you can be it continues to leave out rather important details till the last minute. Showing even less trust then I show my dog when I leave a plate out on the coffee table. Quarians I can understand but it also leaves Shepard out of the loop.  The single greatest example is the Geth fighter server mission. Even ignoring the fact the entire action inside of it could be called into question. Legion at no point hints in any way shape or form it's plan to upload now free Geth into the bodies of Primes. It is only after the fact that it alerts Shepard to it's plan.

 

You claim it is false that the created will always rebel against their creators? Well guess what that is exactly what happened the Geth rebelled against their creators the Quarians and nearly drove them to extinction. It is only Shepard's actions that prevent the rest of the statement from being true and that is only if you choose to side with the Quarians or pick the peace option.

 

And all of this is ignoring how the Geth changed from ME2 and onward.

[gothpunkboy89]

Take a look.

 

His objectivity is questionable. 

[Callidus Thorn]

Hey, argument after the fact is my line about Leviathan.

 

That's why I had to get it in first

 

I'm talking about it internally though. I gave a possible idea on why the leviathans might not be able to use their mind control abilities. As for teaching their thralls, it seems to be their argument that it's in organics nature and couldn't be simply taught away.

 

I guess it could fry their subjects' brains like indoctrination does, but I figured that was a side effect of artificially generating the effect. It doesn't seem to have the same level of finesse as the Leviathan's. If they've got to manipulate their thralls as much as control them, I don't see that they'd have the same belief that they're the galaxy's apex race. That does rather suggest complete control from the effect.

 

And looking at the Geth, all it's going to take is some simple precautions. If the Quarians had simply limited the size of the networks the Geth could achieve, and created specialised units dedicated to particular tasks, the Geth would likely have lacked the ability to evolve as they did.

 

 

As to why they would make their own AI, the Leviathan gives an answer to that. It's still a good question, but you can again chalk it up to their arrogance.

 

I could see arrogance working if it was just an AI designed to oversee various things, but they created it to tackle a specific problem that they'd become aware of. They were forewarned, and aware of the problem enough to take action to counter it. Considering that they'd seen it happen consistently and repeatedly, creating a synthetic construct to solve the problem of synthetic constructs rebelling isn't arrogance, it's stupidity. It's like seeing someone shoot themselves accidentally by fiddling with a loaded gun, then picking the gun up yourself and fiddling with it.

 

But then again, I suppose you have to expect this kind of thing in the Mass Effect universe, and ME3 in particular.

 

While it would make sense for the leviathans to care about their thralls fighting each other, the Catalyst clearly does not.

 

I was thinking more in indirect terms with the threat to other thrall species. All it takes is for one of them to make a construct a little smarter, and the AI could deem it a threat to the other races. It could just end up killing them just as surely as the constructs would have. (And I'm not just saying that because that's pretty much what it did.)

 

Only organic versus synthetic is special.

 

Okay, but that just underlines the stupidity of creating the intelligence in the first place. The AI is too specific, in that it deals solely with organics versus synthetics, but its mandate is so vague and open-ended that you'd have to be ignorant to the very nature of the problem it was built to solve in the first place.

 

Urgh, I think I'm going to have to abandon this whole train of thought, before my head explodes. They could have done something really clever with this, focusing on some property or other that synthetics lack compared to organics, even if it's only in the ME universe, but instead they went with this mess.

[BloodyMares]

The Geth after beating the Quarians actively killed all ambassadors the Council sent into Geth space as well as willingly killing any non Geth ship that enters their space.  ME 2 all Tali's group did was show up to study the sun and they were attacked indiscriminately. When Shepard shows up the Geth open fire first requiring Shepard to defend him/her self. They were not after some Geth server to blow it up. They were not trying to create some new virus to wipe out the Geth. They were studying the odd age effect of a sun and were attacked for simply being organic and in their territory.

This is relevant how? They wanted to be left alone. Some folks invaded their space and therefore got killed. How is it proof of wiping out organic life? As for Haestrom, those were heretics. If you bring Legion, he fights those geth. And Legion says "We are all geth". Pay attention.
 

 

 

ME3 during every mission with Legion even if you are the most pro Geth Shepard you can be it continues to leave out rather important details till the last minute. Showing even less trust then I show my dog when I leave a plate out on the coffee table. Quarians I can understand but it also leaves Shepard out of the loop.  The single greatest example is the Geth fighter server mission. Even ignoring the fact the entire action inside of it could be called into question. Legion at no point hints in any way shape or form it's plan to upload now free Geth into the bodies of Primes. It is only after the fact that it alerts Shepard to it's plan.

 

Again, what does this have to do with anything? Why do geth need to show trust? Everyone was hostile to them for centuries. Turians kept a secret that they had a massive bomb on Tuchanka. Did it mean they wanted to destroy all krogan? No, it was a safe insurance. Same thing with geth. They have no reason to trust organics. They want to build their own future and revealing all cards would be very dumb. They don't plan to organize an attack against organics. They want to improve their chances of survival. Geth are not agressive but they are not naive. Maybe we just interpret things differently but I honestly don't remember Legion seeking destruction of organics (not even quarians) Either present a real proof of your reasoning or drop it.
 

 

You claim it is false that the created will always rebel against their creators? Well guess what that is exactly what happened the Geth rebelled against their creators the Quarians and nearly drove them to extinction. It is only Shepard's actions that prevent the rest of the statement from being true and that is only if you choose to side with the Quarians or pick the peace option.

 

 

Define rebellion in this case. Quarians started the conflict. First they tried to shut them down and then they tried to destroy them. To ensure it doesn't happen, geth had to take action. Geth didn't want to destroy quarians. They wanted to serve them. Those quarians that didn't want the war, geth tried to help them but most quarians went Stalin on them. And after quarians got afraid and left their homeworld, geth didn't follow. You of course know all this so why do you still think this proves Catalyst right? Okay, I will play along. If you do consider geth trying to maintain their functions as rebellion then the Catalyst is right about "Created will rebel against their creators" part. But he is still wrong about the "always" part. Asari didn't create AI, salarians didn't create AI, turians didn't create AI...You see the pattern here? Hell, what about Protheans? They had their war with synthetics (Metacon war) and won. After that they didn't create any synthetics. So why did Reapers come to them anyway?

 

 

And all of this is ignoring how the Geth changed from ME2 and onward.

 

You mean retcons? Yes, the trilogy is inconsistent but we are talking about the Catalyst here, the product of this inconsistensy so don't be a hypocrite. So if you want to defend the Catalyst, you need to analize every single fact presented in the trilogy. You can't pick what you like and ignore everything else.

Before answering, try to find a relevant information and be more precise with your reasoning. Also, I would be happy if you could provide some counter arguments to what I have said. Don't be selective, ok? Critisize everything that you don't agree with.

[gothpunkboy89]

 

 They have no reason to trust organics.

 

That singular line validates my entire statement. Everything they have done is pure self interest. They are intelligent enough to be aware of their actions and possible consequences but they do not care. As long as it doesn't inconvenience them they are fine with it.

 

 I'm not ignoring the rest of you post on purpose simply because I don't like what they say. But because this singular line best sums up everything I have stated.

 

The Reapers have a paradoxical effect simply by existing. They were created to harvest all advance organic and synthetic life to prevent conflict between the two. The effect of them existing causes both groups to face a common enemy uniting them together. Remove them from the equation and the conflict develops again. Add them back in and the conflict is ended because they have to fight against them.

 

 

The have no qualms about killing any non Geth in their area. They enforce isolation not through any sort of diplomacy or treaty but thought threat of force.  Without the Reapers and the Quarians attacked if the Geth managed to win it isn't a massive or even slight stretch to see them come to the conclusion they are not safe as long as organics exist. They have no reason to trust them and no reason not to gear up to fight against organics in an attempt to make it safer for their own kind.

 

 

 

 

 

[BloodyMares]

 

The Reapers have a paradoxical effect simply by existing. They were created to harvest all advance organic and synthetic life to prevent conflict between the two. The effect of them existing causes both groups to face a common enemy uniting them together. Remove them from the equation and the conflict develops again. Add them back in and the conflict is ended because they have to fight against them.

I have to disagree on that. If the Reapers don't interfere then we go back to pre-ME1 state where quarians live on their flotilla and geth guard the Perseus Veil from outsiders. The only way the conflict will reemerge is because quarians try to retake Rannoch (as seen in ME3) and then they successfully defeat geth. The only way geth were able to defend themselves is because of the Reapers. They gave geth upgrades and made them stronger (why?) and that's why quarians were losing. If you remove Reapers then geth are weak and can be destroyed. If you side with quarians then you can see that outcome for yourself. Legion (or Geth VI) can't upload the reaper code and quarians shred geth to pieces. Does it prove that quarians and geth have conflict? Yes. Does it mean that Reapers are needed here? Absolutely not. Organics are capable to deal with their own problems.

Reapers just ruin everything and don't allow organics to develop further. And can you explain to me why Reapers attack everyone else? I can understand quarians - they created the geth. It's a crime in Reaper's eye. Or humans - they created EDI and may have been involved in some other illegal AI research. But why asari who didn't create a single AI? Turians? Or even krogan who have no tech of their own? What is that, premature killing? How does it serve the purpose of preserving organics? Even if created will always rebel their creators it doesn't mean that every race will create synthetics. So stupid.

[gothpunkboy89]

I have to disagree on that. If the Reapers don't interfere then we go back to pre-ME1 state where quarians live on their flotilla and geth guard the Perseus Veil from outsiders. The only way the conflict will reemerge is because quarians try to retake Rannoch (as seen in ME3) and then they successfully defeat geth. The only way geth were able to defend themselves is because of the Reapers. They gave geth upgrades and made them stronger (why?) and that's why quarians were losing. If you remove Reapers then geth are weak and can be destroyed. If you side with quarians then you can see that outcome for yourself. Legion (or Geth VI) can't upload the reaper code and quarians shred geth to pieces. Does it prove that quarians and geth have conflict? Yes. Does it mean that Reapers are needed here? Absolutely not. Organics are capable to deal with their own problems.

Reapers just ruin everything and don't allow organics to develop further. And can you explain to me why Reapers attack everyone else? I can understand quarians - they created the geth. It's a crime in Reaper's eye. Or humans - they created EDI and may have been involved in some other illegal AI research. But why asari who didn't create a single AI? Turians? Or even krogan who have no tech of their own? What is that, premature killing? How does it serve the purpose of preserving organics? Even if created will always rebel their creators it doesn't mean that every race will create synthetics. So stupid.

 

Your right without Reaper interference in the natural progression of events in the galaxy the Quarians still created the Geth then tried to deactivate them which still lead to the Geth rebelling against their creators nearly wiping them out. Then responding to every attempt at diplomacy from the Council races by blowing their ships up without question. Even though they were not interested in conflict with the Geth.

 

The only reason the Quarians were able to attack the Geth so effectively was due to Reapers. Sovereign using the Geth as pawns resulting in large numbers of them being destroyed allowing Tali and other Quarians to savage for parts. Without that the time frame for Quarians to be ready enough to take on the Geth expands significantly allowing the Geth more time to grow and develop on their own as well. The Quarian weapon acted like (or is described as) an optical flash bang overloading the Geth's ability to see with junk data. Think a visual version of a DDoS. Reaper upgraded their processing power allowing them to handle the junk data they received as well as providing an intelligence boost.   The big reason the Geth even went to the Reapers was the destruction of their Dyson Sphere. The loss of thousands of Geth programs had the added effect of reducing their over all intelligence. Quarians basically pulled the same stun the Reapers did earlier to Humans. Showed up unexpectedly and wiped out most of the Human leaders leaving the command structure in shambles. .The difference being that Humans have allies they could request assistance from or at least be able to retreat and regroup. An option the Geth lack completely.

 

I'm certainly not saying it would be an easy fight were one side beats the other without a problem. But it is possible the Geth could win. If you remove Reapers from the equation that possibility increases even more.  The majority of the Quarian Fleet are the civilian ships. Only really the Patrol and the Heavy Fleet are truly build for war. This is like putting a tank cannon on a Land Rover and trying to go to war with it against a fully armed tank squad.

 

They prevent development to stop this kind of conflict before it starts. Everything the Reapers do makes logical sense. You don't have to agree with it or like it but the logic is there. The Quarians never intended to create an AI only VI servants to make their lives easier and look what happened. What is is name in Project Overload didn't intend to create an VI/Human hybrid that would have wrecked havoc on the galaxy if it got off the planet. No one purposefully creates something to kill them. But mistakes can be made and accidents happen. It is a galaxy wide game of Russian Roulette.  Humanity got lucky and had a misfire the Quarians not so much.