2407 réponses à ce sujet

[BloodyMares]

They prevent development to stop this kind of conflict before it starts. Everything the Reapers do makes logical sense. You don't have to agree with it or like it but the logic is there. The Quarians never intended to create an AI only VI servants to make their lives easier and look what happened. What is is name in Project Overload didn't intend to create an VI/Human hybrid that would have wrecked havoc on the galaxy if it got off the planet. No one purposefully creates something to kill them. But mistakes can be made and accidents happen. It is a galaxy wide game of Russian Roulette.  Humanity got lucky and had a misfire the Quarians not so much.

Whatever... What about other species then? Asari were the most advanced species and they didn't create a dangerous AI by accident. Same goes to turians, same goes to salarian. What about protheans? They had their war with machines, they won and they didn't plan to create any more synthetics out of fear. They handled the problem very well. They surely didn't need reapers so why were they attacked?

[Natureguy85]

His objectivity is questionable. 

 

Says the apologist fanboy. Any substantive disagreement?

 

 

I guess it could fry their subjects' brains like indoctrination does, but I figured that was a side effect of artificially generating the effect. It doesn't seem to have the same level of finesse as the Leviathan's. If they've got to manipulate their thralls as much as control them, I don't see that they'd have the same belief that they're the galaxy's apex race. That does rather suggest complete control from the effect.

 

I like the idea that the problems are merely due to the artificial reproduction that Indoctrination is of whatever the Leviathans do. There's no reason they'd need full control to think they are the apex race. Others worship them as gods. All they need for that is their size, advancement, and some nudging, particularly for primitive cultures. However, now that I think about it, you're right because the people in that one mining facility were under heavy or total control but seemed perfectly fine once the artifact was destroyed.

 

 

 

And looking at the Geth, all it's going to take is some simple precautions. If the Quarians had simply limited the size of the networks the Geth could achieve, and created specialised units dedicated to particular tasks, the Geth would likely have lacked the ability to evolve as they did.

 

Yeah, but Tali says they underestimated the effects of the network.  But again, I'm just explaining the Leviathan's case, not saying it fits in Mass Effect.

 

 

 

I could see arrogance working if it was just an AI designed to oversee various things, but they created it to tackle a specific problem that they'd become aware of. They were forewarned, and aware of the problem enough to take action to counter it. Considering that they'd seen it happen consistently and repeatedly, creating a synthetic construct to solve the problem of synthetic constructs rebelling isn't arrogance, it's stupidity. It's like seeing someone shoot themselves accidentally by fiddling with a loaded gun, then picking the gun up yourself and fiddling with it.

 

The stupidity comes from the arrogance. That's exactly why it's a flaw. To use your example, the second person is saying "That idiot didn't know what he was doing. I'm way more awesome than he was. I'll do it right." And then they learn that they are not as great as they thought they were. It's pretty classic.

 

 

 

I was thinking more in indirect terms with the threat to other thrall species. All it takes is for one of them to make a construct a little smarter, and the AI could deem it a threat to the other races. It could just end up killing them just as surely as the constructs would have.

 

The simple answer there is that the Leviathans would not expect it, just as they didn't expect the constructs to go after them because  the mandate was to preserve life. The idea that the solution to preserving life is to kill life would sound as crazy to them as it does to us!

 

 

Okay, but that just underlines the stupidity of creating the intelligence in the first place. The AI is too specific, in that it deals solely with organics versus synthetics, but its mandate is so vague and open-ended that you'd have to be ignorant to the very nature of the problem it was built to solve in the first place.

 

Urgh, I think I'm going to have to abandon this whole train of thought, before my head explodes. They could have done something really clever with this, focusing on some property or other that synthetics lack compared to organics, even if it's only in the ME universe, but instead they went with this mess.

 

Yeah, it's dumb. There's no getting around that. All I can say is they thought they were special and above it all, and they really weren't. I actually like that aspect of it.

[gothpunkboy89]

Says the apologist fanboy. Any substantive disagreement?

 

 

Direct Quote:

 

Why put it's faith in a crippled moron who magically isn't crippled anymore? Who took a running start and is about to fall out of the beam. Why? Because their stupid.

 

Not even a minute into it

 

If I wanted to see this much bias towards something I would watch Fox News about anything Democrats are doing. Correction Fox might actually be a bit more impartial then that video is. It is really good for you that you found a video that supports what you want to have said and happen but from any other stand point the video is bias as hell.

[gothpunkboy89]

Whatever... What about other species then? Asari were the most advanced species and they didn't create a dangerous AI by accident. Same goes to turians, same goes to salarian. What about protheans? They had their war with machines, they won and they didn't plan to create any more synthetics out of fear. They handled the problem very well. They surely didn't need reapers so why were they attacked?

 

So there is no way there could be some splinter group that breaks away from the main government doing highly illegal R&D? Your almost child like view of them as nothing but as shown in game is child like.  Both Asari and Turian Governments are shown to have just as many secret black ops set ups as humans do.

 

As I stated no one plans to build something that can eventually wipe them out.

[BloodyMares]

So there is no way there could be some splinter group that breaks away from the main government doing highly illegal R&D? Your almost child like view of them as nothing but as shown in game is child like.  Both Asari and Turian Governments are shown to have just as many secret black ops set ups as humans do.

 

As I stated no one plans to build something that can eventually wipe them out.

What are you talking about? Do you have any proof that all these species were secretly conducting AI research? I really doubt it but I will welcome it if you can give me the source. Until then it's your head-canon. You can't use it in arguments because it's not true. If you want to contribute to our discussion then at least make arguments "based on facts and evidence, not wild imaginings and reckless speculation".

[gothpunkboy89]

What are you talking about? Do you have any proof that all these species were secretly conducting AI research? I really doubt it but I will welcome it if you can give me the source. Until then it's your head-canon. You can't use it in arguments because it's not true. If you want to contribute to our discussion then at least make arguments "based on facts and evidence, not wild imaginings and reckless speculation".

Turians have black ops special units. Usually reserved for the rare biotic Turian.On top of them secretly planting a massive bomb on Tuchunka post Krogan Rebellion.  Asari kept the Prothean computer a secret claiming all the advances they have made were done on their own.

 

 They don't need to be conducting AI research. The Quarians were not conducting AI research when the Geth were created.

 

Was not Cerberus a black ops splinter group that separated and build EDI?

 

Is not the Terminus system  a massive area of space that is not patrolled or limited by Council Law?

[Dantriges]

Yeah the asari totally engaged in AI and reckless VI research, because they never saw a billions of people genocide happen in their lifetime...oh wait.

Turian black ops research and activities in totally unrelated fields confirm that the Turians were building AIs.
 

The stupidity comes from the arrogance. That's exactly why it's a flaw. To use your example, the second person is saying "That idiot didn't know what he was doing. I'm way more awesome than he was. I'll do it right." And then they learn that they are not as great as they thought they were. It's pretty classic.

...
 
Yeah, it's dumb. There's no getting around that. All I can say is they thought they were special and above it all, and they really weren't. I actually like that aspect of it.

The interesting thing is, AFAIK current Ai research copies how humans think to develop AIs. So well, the Leviathans probably copied their thought patterns, why go with anything lesser? You want a problem solver that this problem of not getting your delicous seafood your now extinct thralls harvested as tribute doesn´t also happen do your sea champagne and space lobster providers.

So considering that the Leviathans were megalomanical, arrogant know it alls, who ruined the galaxy, an AI built by them would turn out pretty much the same. Lo and behold the description fits the Catalyst and its Reaper buddies pretty well.
So probably BW intended this DLC as justofication after the fact an strengthening the Catatlyst´s statements, I just saw one madman confirming the other guy´s delusions.

[BloodyMares]

Turians have black ops special units. Usually reserved for the rare biotic Turian.On top of them secretly planting a massive bomb on Tuchunka post Krogan Rebellion.  Asari kept the Prothean computer a secret claiming all the advances they have made were done on their own.

 

 They don't need to be conducting AI research. The Quarians were not conducting AI research when the Geth were created.

 

Was not Cerberus a black ops splinter group that separated and build EDI?

 

Is not the Terminus system  a massive area of space that is not patrolled or limited by Council Law?

1) Irrelevant. Doesn't contribute to why Reapers attacked them and doesn't prove anything.
2) So? They weren't even creating basic robots. Not anything like the geth. Why harvest them?
3) Irrelevant. Cerberus are humans and EDI is friendly. We talk about other races here (asari, turian, salarian, krogan, batarian etc) For the rest of it leave quarians and humans out of discussion.
4) Irrelevant. Doesn't contribute to why Reapers attacked them and doesn't prove anything.

Can you link me a source where it is directly stated that non-human and non-quarian species were developing some kind of synthetics?

[Abelas Forever!]

I have no idea what this means. You can think that something isn't a person even though you consider it to be a person? What's the difference between "thinking" and "considering"?

I don't think/consider that a Geth is a person because it's not organic. However I consider/think that a Geth is a digital person which I think is the same thing as a person

[gothpunkboy89]

1) Irrelevant. Doesn't contribute to why Reapers attacked them and doesn't prove anything.
2) So? They weren't even creating basic robots. Not anything like the geth. Why harvest them?
3) Irrelevant. Cerberus are humans and EDI is friendly. We talk about other races here (asari, turian, salarian, krogan, batarian etc) For the rest of it leave quarians and humans out of discussion.
4) Irrelevant. Doesn't contribute to why Reapers attacked them and doesn't prove anything.

Can you link me a source where it is directly stated that non-human and non-quarian species were developing some kind of synthetics?

 

Every government in the galaxy has their own special R&D department to ensure their race would stand a chance if things came to blows. Advanced VI's that would borderline on what the Geth were would be a logical expectation.

 

Salarian, Turian and Asari sat back and did nothing as the Quarians created the Geth. They did nothing to assist the Quarians and did nothing to eliminate the Geth. They were complacent if nothing else. Willing to do nothing to save their own hides.  EDI is 1 being. Claiming EDI proves anything is like Trump picking one Hispanic who is an illegal immigrant and claiming all Hispanics are illegal immigrants. Geth are the only example of a society of synthetics and a portion of them came to the conclusion all on their own to join Sovereign and slaughter any organic in their path if it got what they wanted. The rest of the Geth were more then willing to sit on the side lines and do nothing until that group started to pose a threat directly to them.

 

Synthetic Insights, Ltd. is one of only four corporations licensed by the Citadel Council to develop artificial intelligence.

They have known operations on Illium and Noveria. Their holdings on Noveria are extensive, where tight security allows them to work without harassment from politically hostile organizations; therefore they invest heavily there. The Synthetic Insights manager at Noveria's Port Hanshan is Lorik Qui'in.

[Quarian Master Race]

What are you talking about? Do you have any proof that all these species were secretly conducting AI research? I really doubt it but I will welcome it if you can give me the source. Until then it's your head-canon. You can't use it in arguments because it's not true. If you want to contribute to our discussion then at least make arguments "based on facts and evidence, not wild imaginings and reckless speculation".

Erm......not to support this guy in his convoluted and ever changing arguments, but I'm not gonna miss an oppoutunity to point out that the Council is full off hypocritical, racist morons. (starts at 1:11)

https://www.youtube....fPjJL4Y#t=1m11s

Note that 1896CE corresponds to the geth uprising. It's nice for the Council that those AIs were a little friendlier than the geth, and decided to petition for their rights through the legal process, instead of going all Skynet like the geth.

 

K, I'll go back to ignoring this circular discussion.

[gothpunkboy89]

Erm......not to support this guy in his convoluted and ever changing arguments, but I'm not gonna miss an oppoutunity to point out that the Council is full off hypocritical, racist morons. (starts at 1:11)

https://www.youtube....fPjJL4Y#t=1m11s

Note that 1896CE corresponds to the geth uprising. It's nice for the Council that those AIs were a little friendlier than the geth, and decided to petition for their rights through the legal process, instead of going all Skynet like the geth.

 

K, I'll go back to ignoring this circular discussion.

 

Aw I love you to man

[BloodyMares]

Erm......not to support this guy in his convoluted and ever changing arguments, but I'm not gonna miss an oppoutunity to point out that the Council is full off hypocritical, racist morons. (starts at 1:11)

https://www.youtube....fPjJL4Y#t=1m11s

Note that 1896CE corresponds to the geth uprising. It's nice for the Council that those AIs were a little friendlier than the geth, and decided to petition for their rights through the legal process, instead of going all Skynet like the geth.

 

K, I'll go back to ignoring this circular discussion.

Thank you for this input. It's all I wanted. However I doubt that Citadel DLC that came out after the main game is a strong point because this DLC came out mainly for fan service reasons and I don't know if that content was their initial idea so I think it's kinda an after the fact argument. Doesn't matter though. They should've developed this overarching plot better across all three games and then everything that Catalyst says would make much more sense and would indeed sound like a revelation. Quarian-Geth war was a strong story in ME3 but still it was a side story. Like the Genophage.
I think I will drop this conversation as well because at this point it has little relevance to the topic.

To comment on the topic: I wanted to pick refuse when Extended Cut just came out because I thought that we could persuade the Catalyst that his logic is flawed and override it with our Charm / Intimidate charisma and tons of proof that organics can deal with their own synthetic problems and just tell this star child to pick up his toys and go away. That would be an ideal ending. Instead Shepard acts like an idiot (well, as always) and says this nonsense about dying free. What a waste.

[angol fear]

Thank you for this input. It's all I wanted. However I doubt that Citadel DLC that came out after the main game is a strong point because this DLC came out mainly for fan service reasons and I don't know if that content was their initial idea so I think it's kinda an after the fact argument. Doesn't matter though. They should've developed this overarching plot better across all three games and then everything that Catalyst says would make much more sense and would indeed sound like a revelation. Quarian-Geth war was a strong story in ME3 but still it was a side story. Like the Genophage.
I think I will drop this conversation as well because at this point it has little relevance to the topic.

To comment on the topic: I wanted to pick refuse when Extended Cut just came out because I thought that we could persuade the Catalyst that his logic is flawed and override it with our Charm / Intimidate charisma and tons of proof that organics can deal with their own synthetic problems and just tell this star child to pick up his toys and go away. That would be an ideal ending. Instead Shepard acts like an idiot (well, as always) and says this nonsense about dying free. What a waste.

 

Quarian-geth = side story. Genophage = side story. So what was the main story?

[Monica21]

Quarian-geth = side story. Genophage = side story. So what was the main story?

I know this wasn't directed at me, but I'll throw out a guess: defeating the Reapers?

[BloodyMares]

Quarian-geth = side story. Genophage = side story. So what was the main story?

ME1 - learning about the mystical beings called Reapers that are a major threat to the galaxy and actually defeating one.
ME2 - a bunch of nonsense with no connection to a previous game but in the end defeating a human baby Reaper.
ME3 - uniting the galaxy and fighting the Reapers.

So guess which one is the overarching plot here that is in common for all three games. You must be thinking it's breaking the Reaper cycle. Nope. The Catalyst tells us that the overarching plot of the series turns out to be synthetics rebelling against organics...Do you see now why 'the Catalyst' part of the game is so stupid and doesn't fit into the series?

[angol fear]

Using informations in game, is there a separation between main missions and side missions when you take a look at your missions in Mass Effect 3 ? It was supposed to be a mess here but Bioware succeed in the first two game. So why they didn't repoduce the same ? The answer isn't" because they are stupid," that's a stupid answer. There is something to understand because it was deliberatly made this way.

[gothpunkboy89]

ME1 - learning about the mystical beings called Reapers that are a major threat to the galaxy and actually defeating one.
ME2 - a bunch of nonsense with no connection to a previous game but in the end defeating a human baby Reaper.
ME3 - uniting the galaxy and fighting the Reapers.

So guess which one is the overarching plot here that is in common for all three games. You must be thinking it's breaking the Reaper cycle. Nope. The Catalyst tells us that the overarching plot of the series turns out to be synthetics rebelling against organics...Do you see now why 'the Catalyst' part of the game is so stupid and doesn't fit into the series?

 

Over simplification of things.

 

ME1- Learning about the game world including about the conflict between Quarian and Geth that nearly wiped the Quarians out of existence and left the galaxy preparing for possible war with them. Then under the leadership of Saren and Sovereign the latter of which is believed to be a pure synthetic AI lead the Geth in massacring any organic that gets in their way of their goal.

 

ME2- You learn not all Geth thought like the group that attacked organics how ever they did stood by and did nothing while they attacked organics. You also get a quick learning in how Reapers are created, why they need so many bodies harvested and what ultimately happened to the Protheans. As well as fight a giant Reaper fetus.

 

ME3- Reapers finally invade you try to unite the galaxy to fight them and build the Duce Ex Machina machine. During this the conflict between organic and synthetic still shows up as the Quarians rather then channel all their efforts into facing the Reapers choose to channel all their efforts into again picking a fight with the Geth. Which might have gone well if they picked literally any other time in history. Geth panic and ally with Reapers were they go to far more extreme lengths then Sovereign did to control them. Legion agrees to help you with every action it taking being for the benefit of the Geth first and Quarians second.

 

If Geth/Peace option is used then the Geth assist in building the Crucible and fighting the Reapers because the Reapers are still the over all threat uniting everyone against them. Had the Reapers not existed the Geth would have gone back to their normal set up of wanting to be left alone.

 

Destroy ending you never learn what would become of this new set up with the Geth due to them being wiped out. Meaning any and all socialization improvements over the years with them are removed any if a new race of synthetics is created they will be completely different.

 

Control ending leaves Shep AI with the ability to prevent the violence from escalating to species killing levels. Conflict might or might not happen but if it does Shep and about 4 dozen Reapers will show up and tell everyone to knock it off (Paragon) or simply blow up a few buildings to make it's point (Renegade)

 

Synthesis blends organic bodies and synthetic parts into a new form better. Starting a new level of evolution for organic life in the galaxy. And putting them on par with the eveolution of synthetic life so one can not fully surpass the other.

[BloodyMares]

Over simplification of things.

ME1- Learning about the game world including about the conflict between Quarian and Geth that nearly wiped the Quarians out of existence and left the galaxy preparing for possible war with them. Then under the leadership of Saren and Sovereign the latter of which is believed to be a pure synthetic AI lead the Geth in massacring any organic that gets in their way of their goal.

ME2- You learn not all Geth thought like the group that attacked organics how ever they did stood by and did nothing while they attacked organics. You also get a quick learning in how Reapers are created, why they need so many bodies harvested and what ultimately happened to the Protheans. As well as fight a giant Reaper fetus.

ME3- Reapers finally invade you try to unite the galaxy to fight them and build the Duce Ex Machina machine. During this the conflict between organic and synthetic still shows up as the Quarians rather then channel all their efforts into facing the Reapers choose to channel all their efforts into again picking a fight with the Geth. Which might have gone well if they picked literally any other time in history. Geth panic and ally with Reapers were they go to far more extreme lengths then Sovereign did to control them. Legion agrees to help you with every action it taking being for the benefit of the Geth first and Quarians second.

If Geth/Peace option is used then the Geth assist in building the Crucible and fighting the Reapers because the Reapers are still the over all threat uniting everyone against them. Had the Reapers not existed the Geth would have gone back to their normal set up of wanting to be left alone.

Destroy ending you never learn what would become of this new set up with the Geth due to them being wiped out. Meaning any and all socialization improvements over the years with them are removed any if a new race of synthetics is created they will be completely different.

Control ending leaves Shep AI with the ability to prevent the violence from escalating to species killing levels. Conflict might or might not happen but if it does Shep and about 4 dozen Reapers will show up and tell everyone to knock it off (Paragon) or simply blow up a few buildings to make it's point (Renegade)

Synthesis blends organic bodies and synthetic parts into a new form better. Starting a new level of evolution for organic life in the galaxy. And putting them on par with the eveolution of synthetic life so one can not fully surpass the other.

I can play this game too.
ME1 - you learn about Wrex's past and he tells that his species was affected by the Genophage. Saren is trying to clone them and make an army and found the cure to the Genophage. Wrex gets angry and we have to deal with him either by talking him down or killing him and then we destroy the base.

ME2 - we meet Mordin and Okeer. Mordin says that genophage wasn't a sterilization but merely a stabilization to krogan birth rate. Okeer says that genophage made krogan too gentle to their offsprings and he decided to make a pure krogan. At the same time Maelon was researching the cure for the genophage with his cruel experiments.

ME3 - turians won't cooperate unless we ask krogan to help them. Krogan demand the cure and you can either cure the genophage once and for all or sabotage it. It will determin the fate of the krogan.

Oh boy, it means unfairness against krogan was the main plot of Mass Effect trilogy!

You see what I did there? That's how your arguments look like.

[gothpunkboy89]

I can play this game too.
ME1 - you learn about Wrex's past and he tells that his species was affected by the Genophage. Saren is trying to clone them and make an army and found the cure to the Genophage. Wrex gets angry and we have to deal with him either by talking him down or killing him and then we destroy the base.

ME2 - we meet Mordin and Okeer. Mordin says that genophage wasn't a sterilization but merely a stabilization to krogan birth rate. Okeer says that genophage made krogan too gentle to their offsprings and he decided to make a pure krogan. At the same time Maelon was researching the cure for the genophage with his cruel experiments.

ME3 - turians won't cooperate unless we ask krogan to help them. Krogan demand the cure and you can either cure the genophage once and for all or sabotage it. It will determin the fate of the krogan.

Oh boy, it means unfairness against krogan was the main plot of Mass Effect trilogy!

You see what I did there? That's how your arguments look like.

 

 

Not really the same thing.  Your own post

 

ME1 - learning about the mystical beings called Reapers that are a major threat to the galaxy and actually defeating one.
ME2 - a bunch of nonsense with no connection to a previous game but in the end defeating a human baby Reaper.
ME3 - uniting the galaxy and fighting the Reapers.

So guess which one is the overarching plot here that is in common for all three games. You must be thinking it's breaking the Reaper cycle. Nope. The Catalyst tells us that the overarching plot of the series turns out to be synthetics rebelling against organics...Do you see now why 'the Catalyst' part of the game is so stupid and doesn't fit into the series?

 

The Reaper cycle which you are attempting to break is tied heavily to the Organic Vs Synthetic conflict. The very reason they exist and everything they do is tied to this singular fact. To end the Reaper cycle is to end this conflict. The conclusion of the Geth V. Quarian conflict endings are very close to the ending options you get with the Catalyst.

 

Side with Quarians= Control ending. Uniting with the rest of the galaxy's lack of love for synthetics ensures the superior forces of organics will prevent synthetics from developing in any way the could lead to conflict.

 

Side with Geth= Destroy ending. Destory the attacking force regardless of reason behind it and rely on pure optimism that the Geth will never turn against organics.

 

Peace between them= Synthesis ending. Finding the neutral ground that neither race wants to attack the other but just wants to survive. And they have locked themselves in an endless cycle were for one to survive the other would have to die.

 

You can state that I'm stretching it with that premise and I might be but not by much. The Genophage while another important story still has it's place and what people consider fair. But it still ties into the over all story line of beating the Reapers. In a few regards continuing to punish the Krogan for the actions and possibility of actions is exactly how the Reapers function. They harvest all advance life because of what they could do not necessarily because of what they have done.

 

Both tie in rather well to the over all Reaper Conflict.

[BloodyMares]

The Reaper cycle which you are attempting to break is tied heavily to the Organic Vs Synthetic conflict. The very reason they exist and everything they do is tied to this singular fact. To end the Reaper cycle is to end this conflict. The conclusion of the Geth V. Quarian conflict endings are very close to the ending options you get with the Catalyst.

I don't care why Reapers exist. They are a threat.
In ME1 we delayed their return by destroying the Sovereign.
ME2 doesn't really help my case because it doesn't have a plot. Arrival DLC however was the most important. We destroyed the Alpha relay to ensure they don't come back. With that in mind breaking the cycle meant to trap the Reapers in dark space forever. Yet they still came to Milky Way which means ME1 and ME2 were a waste of time...
Ok, ME3. Reapers came. Breaking the cycle in this case means either destroy them (the whole reason to build the Crucible) or in the end convince the Catalyst to stop the cycle because synthetics aren't a problem anymore. Catalyst acts like a crazy overprotective parent. How do you convince your parents to let you make your own choices? By proving your independency. If organics could defeat the Reapers then they can easily defeat synthetics of their own creation should the conflict ever arise.

[BloodyMares]

Using informations in game, is there a separation between main missions and side missions when you take a look at your missions in Mass Effect 3 ? It was supposed to be a mess here but Bioware succeed in the first two game. So why they didn't repoduce the same ? The answer isn't" because they are stupid," that's a stupid answer. There is something to understand because it was deliberatly made this way.

It wasn't deliberately made this way. Every decent writer left the trilogy and in the end Mac with Casey just couldn't pull this off on their own.

[gothpunkboy89]

I don't care why Reapers exist. They are a threat.
In ME1 we delayed their return by destroying the Sovereign.
ME2 doesn't really help my case because it doesn't have a plot. Arrival DLC however was the most important. We destroyed the Alpha relay to ensure they don't come back. With that in mind breaking the cycle meant to trap the Reapers in dark space forever. Yet they still came to Milky Way which means ME1 and ME2 were a waste of time...
Ok, ME3. Reapers came. Breaking the cycle in this case means either destroy them (the whole reason to build the Crucible) or in the end convince the Catalyst to stop the cycle because synthetics aren't a problem anymore. Catalyst acts like a crazy overprotective parent. How do you convince your parents to let you make your own choices? By proving your independency. If organics could defeat the Reapers then they can easily defeat synthetics of their own creation should the conflict ever arise.

 

 

That is your problem you don't care. You attempt to reduce the entire game down to the level of a small child. Then complain when it doesn't fit your needs. Which is rather childish in an of it self.

 

ME2 does have a plot the issue is that it doesn't advance the Reaper story line forward as much as ME1 or ME3 did. I rather see it as expanding more side wise to fill in more back story and expand the universe a bit more.  I really don't understand were this sudden absolute hatred for ME2 is coming from? Seen it pop up a few times. Some sort of phase going around?  Your statement that ME 1 and 2 were a waste of time because the Reapers still showed up really only seems to drive home my statement about you trying to boil the entire game down to the level of a small child. Only children operate on that sort of logic.  ME 1 you prevent the Reapers from invading providing a reprieve from the invasion as well as providing the people of the galaxy the ability to learn from them technological wise. Hence the creation of the Thanaix Cannon which was based on Reaper tech. ME2 you prevent the capture of thousands of humans and prevent the creation of a new Reaper. To claim these actions were a waste of time is idiotic.

 

Catalyst as a crazy over protective parent is a rather funny statement how ever the rest you lose me on. Again showing how you narrow things down so very much. Particularly the logic of killing your over protective parent proves your independence. How does it show you can easily defeat synthesis of your own creation when the entire way you use to kill the Reapers as an combination of multiple different races tech while using the very same tech as the Reapers to kill them? The people of the galaxy didn't do **** on their own. They found the blue prints, they had to use the Citadel and Relays which were build by Reapers and it was ultimately up to the Catalyst if anything would happen. So by independence I assume you mean learns to mooch off everyone else around them.

[BloodyMares]

That is your problem you don't care. You attempt to reduce the entire game down to the level of a small child. Then complain when it doesn't fit your needs. Which is rather childish in an of it self.

I'd rather you not compare me to a child when your own arguments are all over the place.
And it's not my problem. It was the reasoning behind my Shepard. I'll even quote Vigil: "Your survival depends on stopping them, not in understanding them".

 

 

ME2 does have a plot the issue is that it doesn't advance the Reaper story line forward as much as ME1 or ME3 did. I rather see it as expanding more side wise to fill in more back story and expand the universe a bit more.  I really don't understand were this sudden absolute hatred for ME2 is coming from? Seen it pop up a few times. Some sort of phase going around?  Your statement that ME 1 and 2 were a waste of time because the Reapers still showed up really only seems to drive home my statement about you trying to boil the entire game down to the level of a small child. Only children operate on that sort of logic.  ME 1 you prevent the Reapers from invading providing a reprieve from the invasion as well as providing the people of the galaxy the ability to learn from them technological wise. Hence the creation of the Thanaix Cannon which was based on Reaper tech. ME2 you prevent the capture of thousands of humans and prevent the creation of a new Reaper. To claim these actions were a waste of time is idiotic.

Now you see my point. They didn't advance the Reaper plot (overarching plot) in ME2 and my question is "why?". Did they forget what Shepard's journey was about? I agree about the Thanix cannon but you can see the difference only if you read the codex. To clarify: codex provides additional non-essential information. I shouldn't bother myself reading the codex to understand the story. From ME2 point of view destroying the Sovereign didn't accomplish anything but made Shepard 'hero, a bloody icon".
ME2 was a waste of time because it didn't have an impact on the series. Like at all. What choices did we have in this game (main plot only)? To activate or not Legion, to see who survives the Suicide Mission and to blow up or keep the Collector base. How ME3 treated those choices: if Legion is not in the game then there is a Geth VI which is basically the same thing but less friendly. Every ME2 squad member is given a unimportant role. If Mordin dies then there's Padok Wilks, if Tali dies then there's Admiral Xen, other squad members have no impact at all. And Collector base...TIM somehow got the Reaper larva corpse so it means you kept the base intact even if you didn't. The only choices that affected ME3 were those from loyalty missions (Maelon's data, Tali's trial and Legion's heretic problem) but those are optional. Therefore: ME2 is pointless.
 

 

Catalyst as a crazy over protective parent is a rather funny statement how ever the rest you lose me on. Again showing how you narrow things down so very much. Particularly the logic of killing your over protective parent proves your independence. How does it show you can easily defeat synthesis of your own creation when the entire way you use to kill the Reapers as an combination of multiple different races tech while using the very same tech as the Reapers to kill them? The people of the galaxy didn't do **** on their own. They found the blue prints, they had to use the Citadel and Relays which were build by Reapers and it was ultimately up to the Catalyst if anything would happen. So by independence I assume you mean learns to mooch off everyone else around them.

 

 Why do I bother? Learn to read so you don't have these questions.

[angol fear]

It wasn't deliberately made this way. Every decent writer left the trilogy and in the end Mac with Casey just couldn't pull this off on their own.

 

You didn't answer my question! The journal is : mission/codex/codex. Why is there no main quest/ side quest? Here you have to think about it and try to understand why! If you don't then it's your problem.

It wasn't deliberatly? Seriously, you eat that? The rumour about casey and mac improvising the ending, if you can believe that it means that you don't know anything about writing, which means that you also don't know what is reading, which also means that I waste my time. So end of our discussion.