2483 réponses à ce sujet

[Natureguy85]

Indeed so. It's so obvious that you have to be wilfully ignorant to not see it. It's also quite clear given Mac Walter's answer to the question why we wouldn't be able to play after the plot has concluded: he said "Who would want to play in a wasteland?".

 

Of course they said afterwards that the EC didn't retcon anything, but that's obvious BS in order to save their reputation. The EC retconned a lot of things in the high-EMS outcomes, but most obviously it retconned the "dark age" implied by the original endings.

 

In fairness, they didn't retcon those things; they rewrote the scenes.That's a minor point that the editor in me wants to clarify.

 

But I am interested in that quote. When was that stated? If that's the case, I want to know if he was referring to that or just that all the places we'd visit had been devastated by Reapers. If it is the former and they did realize the implications initially, I have to give them credit. I always

[Iakus]

 

But I am interested in that quote. When was that stated? If that's the case, I want to know if he was referring to that or just that all the places we'd visit had been devastated by Reapers. If it is the former and they did realize the implications initially, I have to give them credit. I always

 

https://www.youtube....m3Vnt5zxI#t=77s

 

about 1:30 into it

[Iakus]

 

Of course they said afterwards that the EC didn't retcon anything, but that's obvious BS in order to save their reputation. The EC retconned a lot of things in the high-EMS outcomes, but most obviously it retconned the "dark age" implied by the original endings.

I'd say the only thing EC really retcons is the fate of the relays.  In the mid-high EMS ranges, they are repairable, which prevents, or at least mitigates, the subsequent "dark age"

 

Every other unpleasant aspect of the endings is there, and in many cases further reinforced.

[themikefest]

I'd say the only thing EC really retcons is the fate of the relays.  In the mid-high EMS ranges, they are repairable, which prevents, or at least mitigates, the subsequent "dark age"

If ems is above 1750, the relays are repaired and everything is rebuilt when destroy is chosen. The difference is the time it takes to repair them.

 

If ems is above 2600, only the rings for the relay are damaged. Of course the relay that is seen when the ships fly by is severely damaged. I wonder why? Maybe BioWare overlooked that part? Don't know.

 

If ems is below 1750 with destroy being chosen, there's no idea if they ever get repaired and if they are ever repaired, how long it would take

 

If ems is below 1750 with control chosen, everything is rebuilt just like it is if ems was high. The only difference between low ems control and high ems control is the time it takes to rebuild even with the reapers helping

[AlanC9]

We don't have any real numbers for any of that, of course. Months? Years? Decades? Any guesses?

In the very long term, a relay network would be reconstructed no matter what level of damage was sustained. Since the protheans could build a relay, the current cycle isn't likely to be that far away from it.

[Quarian Master Race]

Sure you can put some blame on Shepard, but I would put the blame more on Tali or Raan for failing to inform Gerrell that the geth are uploading the code that will wipe out their species.

I'd agree, but it's much easier to just put their sudden onset of idiocy and character derailment down to videogamey bad writing (the player has to be the ones to make the choice) and lack of creativity/laziness in designing and writing a separate scene (the ceasefire and saving the geth outcomes are pretty much identical up until the battle).

Why Shepard gets cat got your tounge syndrome because she sent the salvaged platform off to Cerberus, or Tali died or whatever is less explicable. Gerrel backs off when given the tactical situation, whether you appeal to his honor or threaten him. Why wouldn't we do that anyway? Seems like pretty basic communication.

Couldn't find them? Are you really going to sit there and claim that hiding on the other side of a large celestial body has never been done before in the history of space combat in the ME universe? That the Reapers never had that happen to them?

No, but I made no such claim in the first place. Your initial statement was....

The Reapers could easily have wiped them out before Shepard shows up but they choose not to.

but that wasn't the case at all. The Reapers, using their willing slaves, were attempting to kill the quarians when we arrived, they were simply being thwarted by the quarians' continued elusiveness. How long would things have remained that way? We don't know, but that's irrelevant to the point being made. The Reapers were searching for and attacking the quarians when given the opportunity.

This completely goes against their mandate. They shouldn't care if some organics destroy some less advanced synthetics, yet they artificially prop up the geth by providing them with their technology, and then use them as an army of pawns to hunt down the quarians and kill them. They don't even seem interested in harvesting the quarians in the slightest, seeing as they don't provide processors and their geth thralls don't have them (they have Dragon's teeth, but those only make husks, not Reapers). It makes no goddamn sense, especially when you consider that quarians are basically second in terms of importance to the Reapers in this cycle (according to comments by Harbinger in ME2).

The Reapers should be anywhere from ambivalent to thrilled that the quarians are getting rid of "an annoyance, [of] limited utility". Their actions in propping up the geth are completely inexplicable taken in the context of the endings. They don't need a proxy army of toasters like Sovereign in ME1, they have an overwhelming amount of forces as is. The Reapers intervene for no other reason than but the (poorly planned and written) plot requires it.

Do you also remember that the majority of the Quarian Fleet is made up of the Civilian Fleet? Which consists of ships not created for the purpose of combat? They were armed like war ships but lacked the shielding and armor to sustain any sort of hits. When the bluk of your fleet isn't capable of engaging in combat and you hold it in reserve leaving only the smaller portion of ships capable of actually engaging in any sort of combat. Not really a surprise that most of the ships are still in tact when they retreat with them.

The "majority" of a Fleet consisting of 50,000 vessels. That still leaves you with thousands of warships that aren't really taking significant losses. In terms of military force, the Civilian vessels aren't even 1/3 of the Fleet's strength according to the War Assets (maximum of 250 vs the same for the Patrol Fleet and 280 for the Heavy Fleet). The majority of the ships were still intact because the quarians are tactically and strategically adept (it says it right there in the description, if you're literate), well, at least they are when they don't have geth sympathizer(s) deliberately feeding them false intel and providing their entire order of battle to the enemy.

Geth were already capable of taking down the Quarians while under Reaper control. Their Dreadnought took 3 frigates to the face and only suffered mild damage. It required Legion to completely shut down all engine, weapons and shields for the Quarians to finally take it out. Such a threat that Garrel decided to blow it up while Shep and team was still inside. Seeing the Death of Tali/Raan and group as worth the trade off. You also ignore the fact that if Koris is not rescued off Rannoch Civilian captains panic and make a run for the Relay and are picked off by the Geth.

So yea claiming they were hidden and the only reason the Geth didn't kill them is because they couldn't find them is...lacking in logic. The Geth pinned them in their own system. Rendering them unable to fight against them without risking their entire race. But also sitting in a position that any attempt to run would result them them getting wiped out anyways.

Then why weren't the quarians already dead when we showed up? As established, the Reapers and their upgraded geth proxies were already trying to take them out (again in complete disregard of the Reaper mandate to preserve organic life). What are they waiting for? Are they Bond villians, waiting for Shep to show up and use the Migrant Fleet to foil their plan, instead of just blowing up the Migrant Fleet so Shep can't do anything, and in the process also preventing their army of geth allies from turning traitor (again)?

The Dreadnought actually took 6 frigates if you could be bothered to look up lore details to inform your shitposts (which you clearly can't). You're making this out like it's some kind of big deal, but frigates are small fry, basically scouting vessels only one ship class above fighters. According to the codex, 6 frigates is a single "wolf pack".
http://masseffect.wi...rships#Frigates
Now, it might have been bad to lose heavy cruisers or a carrier, but losing a few frigates comprising .0000012% of your fleet to inflict damage on the enemy flagship isn't a bad trade at all. The quarians likely have thousands more of them.

What evidence do you have that the toaster's "gesture of cooperation" was even necessary for anything but attempting to manipulate Shepard? (rhetorical question, I know you're averse to providing evidence). The quarians clearly managed to take the Dreadnought's barriers offline on their own in the first battle (otherwise there wouldn't have been any physical damage), and in the current battle they had completely destroyed the Dreadnought's support fleet and were pounding it from all sides (look at the space outside shortly before it blows). Seeing as there's a precedent for them being able to take down the ship's barriers on their own, it was only a matter of time before the ship was destroyed regardless of the toaster's attempted manipulation of Shep. With the Reaper upgrades temporarily offline until the surface signal could be put in place, geth reinforcements would not have been forthcoming, and would've been ineffective anyway. Hell, since there was now no fear of retaliation, if they wanted to expedite the process they could have employed the Liveship cannons they had half a system away, just like they do in the final battle (source Codex/The Reaper War)

"After the quarians eliminated the Reaper, the geth's processing power dropped precipitously and their bandwidth became clogged with queries for new instructions. Quarian fighters reported the exact positions of geth ships so that the liveships could fire safely on the geth from the far side of Tikkun, using the star's gravity as a slingshot. The geth command-and-control network was now in tatters, their forces separated by vast distances. The quarians hunted them like animals."

Which are quite clearly capable of destroying geth dreadnoughts, seeing as the geth supposedly had around as many as the turians (37) before the quarians attacked them. I wonder what happened to them? It seems you are the one who is "lacking in logic" here (as usual). There's really nothing to suggest that they couldn't have taken out that ship on their own, seeing as they've done it a dozen times before. It may have been more difficult, and they have potentially taken more losses, but all the pieces were there. They weren't even asking for Shep's help (Hackett was asking for their help, and sends Shep to get their fleet's assistance), and Gerrel clearly doesn't really care all that much about keeping them around.

This stale mate is only broken by the intervention of Shepard. Who either sets the Geth back into a state that the Quarians could fight. Or boosts the Geth back into their superior level and wiping the Quarians out. Now if there was an option in the game that showed after Shepard disabled the Dreadnought the Qurians fleet leaving and being pursued only by the Geth Fleets with them ignoring all other races. Then your statement might have a point. But the game doesn't support your argument at all.

Yes, because of the aforementioned video game logic. Let's examine what Shepard actually brings to the table and does:

-provides a stealth frigate capable of evading Reaper sensors to infiltrate the Dreadnought (let's ignore that the Admirals literally just met us on a stealth frigate that was capable of passing through Tikkun's relay 2 seconds ago)
-volunteers to board the dreadnought currently hindering the quarians and disable the Reaper signal booster without being asked (cool, but the quarians have Marines that could do this with access to the aforementioned ship)
-shoots some toasters
-gets trapped in the Dreadnought's operations center and needs to be bailed out by Tali/Xen
-Is shot at by geth, nearly falls down an elevator shaft to their death, and is again rescued by the quarian
-wastes time shooting the breeze with a talking toaster that supposedly wants to defect instead of destroying it and getting off the ship. (Gerrel rightfully gets fed up and provides some motivation to get moving)
-Later brings it to strategic planning sessions where it predictably lies and dangerously manipulates Shep and the quarians to achieve its actual objectives. Why they continue to keep this strategic liability around is anyone's guess (but it's video game logic).
-attacks the Reaper base while the quarians occupy the geth
-uses a quarian designed targeting laser from Xen to designate a Reaper destroyer so that the Migrant Fleet can destroy it (and the inexplicably invulnerable Destroyer is nice enough to expose its videogamey weakpoint for Shep, instead of simply walking up and squashing them)
-potentially helps the geth re-upload it's Reaper crap right in the middle of their counterattack, perhaps without even bothering to tell their allies, and ruins the entire quarian strategic plan (while Admiral Useless inexplicably stands there doing nothing), to the result of quarian destruction or forced capitualation

There was no need for Shep specifically to rescue Koris either (could have sent Reegar and some mooks or whatever), and he isn't needed for victory anyway. The only thing Shep really does that they couldn't have is go into the propaganda server (at the geth traitor's behest) to shut off the Fighter Squadron, but they don't need to do that to win, it just helps them take less Civilian losses.

Basically, Shep's role is that of a big dumb footsoldier, which even if we grant they are really good at to levels of Mary Sueishness, the Migrant Fleet has a population of millions of able bodied men and women. According to Arrival (or rather what happens to the Allinace's 103rd when you elect not to do it) Shep's roughly equivalent to half a division (8-10,000 troops)
http://masseffect.wi..._3_Consequences

Ignoring how ridiculous I feel being someone who actually knows how a military formation operates and typing this fantasy-esque garbage, I'd think the quarians could spare a few thousand Reegars just to board a dreadnought to kill a few dozen geth defending it, and then hold a laser designator (freeing up Shep to do other things for the war effort if they want) if the plot didn't require us to, but that's just me. I didn't write this action schlock.

The game supports every argument I've made, often inadvertently through bad writing. However, I'm beginning to doubt you've even played it with the frequent nonsense and factual lore inaccuracies you spew all over this forum in slavish fanboi defense of its obvious flaws (such as the entirety of the completely nonsense Rannoch arc).

[Prince Enigmatic]

<snip>

 

I've only ever read the posts on this thread, but just had to applaud for how you provide an argument. I disagree with some of it, since I'm neutral on the whole Rannoch episode and generally like both the quarians and the geth so I'm never partial to a side that favours one absolutely over the other (I'm aware that may display my lack of intelligence on the matter, or my oversight on some of the weaker aspects of the writing, since i personally enjoyed the Rannoch arc), but its nearly impossible to argue back with how well and sophisticated you construct your arguments. 

 

The quarians should make you an Admiral. 

 

(oh and on topic, i chose synthesis. call me whatever you want, judge me however you want, i personally didn't want to end my trilogy playthrough with the deaths of EDI or the geth)

[BloodyMares]

Long post

I don't know how you do it. You are awesome. 

[Quarian Master Race]

I've only ever read the posts on this thread, but just had to applaud for how you provide an argument. I disagree with some of it, since I'm neutral on the whole Rannoch episode and generally like both the quarians and the geth so I'm never partial to a side that favours one absolutely over the other (I'm aware that may display my lack of intelligence on the matter, or my oversight on some of the weaker aspects of the writing, since i personally enjoyed the Rannoch arc), but its nearly impossible to argue back with how well and sophisticated you construct your arguments. 

 

The quarians should make you an Admiral. 

 

(oh and on topic, i chose synthesis. call me whatever you want, judge me however you want, i personally didn't want to end my trilogy playthrough with the deaths of EDI or the geth)

Well, thanks for the compliment. I don't begrudge others enjoying it, as everyone interprets stories differently, but a lot of Rannoch bothers me. However, I'll admit to nitpicking tons of errors that are in effect relatively minor details. The really outstanding things (i.e. thematic, character and lore inconsistencies) IMO are.

-The premise is implausible. The geth don't particularly need Rannoch or its former colonies (Adas, Haestrom etc.), so when the quarians attack them with their new anti-geth superweapon, why don't they just pick up and leave themselves like the quarians did 300 years ago? They're software/robots that can live on an asteroid belt in the arse end of the universe for all anyone else cares, yet they're going to ally with/become slaves of evil space Cthulu and fight to the death over a random rock that some meatbags want to kill them over? Even the quarians themselves aren't that fanatical. While we're at it, why did they build their megastructure around Tikkun, the one star system in the galaxy that their mortal enemy sees as almost sacred, occupied territory, and is trying to kill them over? That's not very logical. Hell, the whole point of a traditional Dyson Sphere is harnessing the star's energy, which I suppose the geth needed to do to power the huge server they were all going to upload into?(otherwise there's no need for such a structure.) Tikkun is stated to be a relatively low energy orange star only "90% the mass of Sol and half as luminous". Seems like they'd be better off building the thing on pretty much any one of those other "two hundred to four hundred billion" stars in the galaxy. I guess then, though we wouldn't have the convience of the quarians blowing it up, the massive loss of programs making the geth dumber, and that resulting in them getting in bed with  robo-Cthulu because the plot requires it.

-As mentioned above, the Reapers have no real reason to care about or intervene this conflict, and their actions are counterproductive to what Glowbrat tells us their purpose is. If they'd just used the geth like husks to attempt harvest of the quarians that'd be one thing, but they're just trying to murder them while preserving the geth. I mean, you could headcanon that the Reapers know that their own logic is dumb and evil, so they artificially prop up synthetics that are under threat of destruction by organics to maintain the "synthetics will destroy all organics" for whatever reason, but I doubt that's what the writers intended. More likely, they simply weren't thinking about how the Reapers should tie into this sub arc, except as a plot device to generate more cheap pathos for the geth (aww duh poor toasters had to go to the Reapers because their big meanie Creator parents don't understand them. Yayy species-wide daddy issues!).

-The Reaper code is goofy and ill elucidated. We have no idea what it is or does apart from it counters the Xenbomb, makes the geth less stupid and causes them to use first person pronouns and therefore become "alive". It's basically the exact same magic substance as the "Reaper Tech" that enables TIM and Cerberus to do all the goofy nonsense they can engage in, except for some reason we're supposed to support the geth in their aspirations to attain this tech and basically become entirely different entities, while villanizing TIM for doing the same? WTF is the theme of this story supposed to be, again? The way the Reaper code is finally employed to settle the issue between the quarians and geth is also unsatisfying and ignores any Shepard's previous efforts at helping them find common ground. All that stuff about the interplay between Legion, Tali and the Admirals in trying to foster understanding and cooperation is thrown out the window. Basically, you let the geth upload their code and then ideally (if you have enough boy scout/jerk points) threaten the quarians into making a choice between submission and extinction (and apparently they agree with Saren on this issue). Why did I even need to get a sympathetic Tali and Legion into leadership positions of their respective governemnts where they could effect change to do that? Am I supposed to feel good about this imperial "peace" enforced under the threat of genocide? Seems like they're gonna go right back to shooting each other again as soon as they don't need each other to help against the Reapers and Xen invents "anti-geth superweapon v2.0" or whatever (though at least this is thematically consistent with the ending's logic of "organics and synthetics can't get along" without control or destruction of one by the other).

-The entire Geth Server mission is just a lazy, cheap attempt at generating more pathos for the geth and contradicts previous lore without actually retconning it. Previously, the geth were violent isolationists that had killed every single organic (quarian as well as Council species unfortunate enough to be on their planet) in geth space during the war, and spent the 300 years since shooting Council peace envoys (explained in Asencion) and everyone else who has ever come into their space except Saren (explained in ME1). By ME3, though, they're just misunderstood pacificsts or something. Basically, we're supposed to belive that the geth somehow killed 99.5% of the quarian species original 2 billion individuals in completely justified "self defense". What, did the quarians somehow arm and militarize their entire adult population without all other functions of society (economics, government, manufacturing etc.) collapsing? Were quarian infants popping out of their moms with armor, and toddlers walking around with assault rifles chanting "death to all toasters" in khelish or something? Were the quarians turning their geriatrics into wheelchair bound suicide bombers? 99.5% kill rate on a population that large is basically impossible without very deliberate, mechanical efforts at total genocide. You could take control of Earths entire nuclear arsenal, bomb every single population center on the planet, induce nuclear winter, and you still wouldn't manage that.

This is made even more ridiculous with the reveal of the quarian dissidents who supported the geth. I mean, the geth won the Morning War, so how did all of these (perhaps millions of, given the huge quarian population) people manage to die off? Shouldn't they and their descendants still be living on the quarian worlds under geth protection if the geth are so benign? Was the seemingly hyper efficient quarian KGB/Gestapo or whatever more concerned with eliminating their traitors down to the last than fighting the geth trying to kill them? There's basically only one conclusion that you can draw if you know all the previous lore; that Legion/VI is deliberately constructing a Propaganda piece in an attempt to manipulate you (and certain aspects of the presentation, such as the quarians being innacurately portrayed in suits don't help). While I have no problem with this interpretation, I doubt that's what the writers were going for. More likely, they just ignored/ forgot their previous lore, had no sense of scale of how massive a population of 2 billion is, and didn't even bother with a retcon or a new reveal (say pro-geth quarians descended from sympathizers that the galaxy didn't know about living on the geth worlds) and instead we end up with this nonsensical, hamfisted preachy mess that's just supposed to make us empathize with and feel sorry for the geth, because we were obviously too stupid to do so before when they were just dumb murderbots ( everyone hated that evil Legion thing in ME2, amirite?) .

 

-Character derailment. On the quarian side, we have Han'Gerrel and Zaal'Koris have basically swapped personalities. In ME2 the former was bellicose in regard to the geth, but personally amicable, and was a close family friend of the Zorahs whom served in combat with Rael since they were basically kids. Tali seems to have a sort of affectionate familial uncle type relationship with him. In ME3, he's supposed to be some mad General Ripper type whom all the other Admirals hate and Tali now contemptuously calls "bosh'tet" in one instance. On the other side Koris was previously a scheming, self interested pro-geth asshat whom twice tried to get Tali exiled in ME2 solely for his own political ambitions (he's responsible for the entire trial), yet in ME3 he's this wise, heroic, selfless leader who is now Tali's only ally on the Admiralty (guess quarians get over grudges really quick as long as they're not against robots?). They of course did this because they probably figured having the nuance of the more amicable character being anti geth and the ruthless one being pro-geth was too much to sell the whole "toasters are people" narrative to the dumb audience, so Gerrel and Koris get flip flopped into caricatures whom the player is obviously supposed to hate and sympathize with respectively, matching how the narrative wants the player to feel about their respective issue positions.

Xen is still as amazing as ever, but that's only because she was intended as a villain from the beginning and we're already autodialouged into hating on her in ME2, so no change here. You still don't get any options to support or agree with any of her issue positions, but you get plenty of dialouge options to call her "insane" and chastize her for being some sort of quarian Josef Mengele for wanting to study the geth. She's supposed to be some mad scientist caricature.....even though she never actually does anything insane, and her research produces nothing but huge benefits to her people (the anti-geth weapon, the Arc Pistol, the relays used to write the Crucible's control VI etc).

Raan and Tali are mostly okay, apart from getting handed an overly passive idiot ball if you choose the geth and not doing a thing to try and save their people. "Hey Tali, weren't you all gung ho on trying to kill Legion because it was "endangering the Fleet" by stealing your data back in ME2? Well it's right over there uploading some code that's its going to use to brutally kill your entire species and annihilate your beloved culture. I'd say that's pretty dangerous to the Fleet. Are you even gonna try to warn them about the Reaper code? Nah, it's okay, this writing's atrocious. I'd jump off a cliff to escape it, too. Oh, hey Raan! Tali just went for a swim. You've got a nice gun there, are you gonna use it on that geth over there uploading the Reaper co....oh, looks like you missed and hit your own face." Seriously, there was no need to baby the player here. Earlier, the game had no problem making us shoot our friend Mordin if we wanted to sabotage the genophage, but because saving the geth is technically (according to the game) a Paragon decision Tali has to kill herself for our moral purity or whatever? Would've made much more sense, served as an effective bit of symbolism, and had more nuance and emotional impact if we had to gun down a loyal and well meaning friend/ally so the geth could get their freedom or whatever. This is basically what happens with what we (or rather Tali) does to Legion if you choose the quarians, and that scene is pretty good (some minor Legion idiot ball aside), albiet absolutely gut-wrenching if you've an emotional attachment to either of the two characters it is playing out between.

The geth got it far worse though, particularly Legion. If they didn't have the same name and look the same, I'd scarcely believe it was the same character and faction. It's whole schtick on geth ideology in ME2 was basically self determination, self reliance, self development of technology and opposition to the Reapers (which is what seperated it from the heretics). Personally, it was emotionless, logical and detached, frequently using neutral words like "judged" to deliberately demonstrate this trait. By ME3 it's all gung ho about swallowing the Reapers gifts hook, line and sinker and uses emotionally charged language like "beautiful, indicitave of life" (but let's just ignore that Legion already thought itself alive in ME2 without Reaper code, and is now basically saying it's a toaster without it). This is just wrong on so many levels when compared to previous writing that I could write an essay matching the length of this post and the one above on it alone. Other people have elucidated on the geth issue better than I can, though, even if I don't share some of the same views personally, and I'd rather let you read someone else's criticism than basically restate it it verbaitum, as this post is already long.

https://www.fanficti...80/AssaultSloth

The arc did get some things right. Some of the emotional moments were really good i.e. most of Tali's character development where she comes full circle and finally attains the goals she has been working towards since the beginning of the story (i.e. not suddenly becoming a huge wuss), and the Admiralty (despite some of them basically being different characters with the same name) actually have believable, rational goals, motivations and reactions, which is a godsend compared to some one dimensional pantomime characters in ME3 like the Council, Salarian Dalatrass, Kai Lame, TIM, Anderson etc. Overall, though, I though it was a pretty disappointing end to my by far favourite sub arc of the trilogy no matter which way you choose to end it. Most of the previous things in the arc that made it nuanced and an interesting, innovative take on the machine rebellion story archetype are gone IMO, replaced by boring Pinnochio nonsense, cheap pathos and hamfisted moralizing.

[StarcloudSWG]

To be honest, I generally force peace between the quarians and the geth because I know the geth are going to die when I choose destroy. Legion chose to ignore the geth consensus on life being allowed to self-determinate and got addicted to "Reaper code". Well, that's fine. It's no skin off my nose when they permanently malfunction and shut down alongside the Reapers. They chose to make their bed and tie themselves to it, even knowing I'm planning on sending it off like a viking funeral pyre.

 

But until then, the geth will manage to do a lot of the grunt work of making Rannoch habitable for the quarians, providing them some security and comfortable living space.

[rossler]

It's also quite clear given Mac Walter's answer to the question why we wouldn't be able to play after the plot has concluded: he said "Who would want to play in a wasteland?".

 

No different than ME1. You can't continue to play it after defeating Saren/Sovereign. Least not any DLC or side missions. Those can be completed before going to Ilos, and before getting banned from the Citadel.

[Monica21]

No different than ME1. You can't continue to play it after defeating Saren/Sovereign. Least not any DLC or side missions. Those can be completed before going to Ilos, and before getting banned from the Citadel.

That's only being explicitly technical about the gameplay aspect of it, and not the world left behind. Pre-EC the relays are destroyed, the Citadel is destroyed, and the Normandy crashes on a garden world at the ass end of nowhere. The point Mac was making is that Earth is a literal wasteland, so you can't hop through a relay to search for Dr. Garneau.

[Iakus]

If ems is above 1750, the relays are repaired and everything is rebuilt when destroy is chosen. The difference is the time it takes to repair them.

 

If ems is above 2600, only the rings for the relay are damaged. Of course the relay that is seen when the ships fly by is severely damaged. I wonder why? Maybe BioWare overlooked that part? Don't know.

 

If ems is below 1750 with destroy being chosen, there's no idea if they ever get repaired and if they are ever repaired, how long it would take

 

If ems is below 1750 with control chosen, everything is rebuilt just like it is if ems was high. The only difference between low ems control and high ems control is the time it takes to rebuild even with the reapers helping

And in the original ending, regardless of EMS, the Catalyst explicitly states the relays will be gone.

[rossler]

That's only being explicitly technical about the gameplay aspect of it, and not the world left behind. Pre-EC the relays are destroyed, the Citadel is destroyed, and the Normandy crashes on a garden world at the ass end of nowhere. The point Mac was making is that Earth is a literal wasteland, so you can't hop through a relay to search for Dr. Garneau.

 

Sounds like you have to do everything before that happens.

 

Leviathan can only be played after the Coup and before Cronos Station.

Omega? Same thing.

Citadel? Same thing.

Extended Cut? Before Cronos Station.

 

The game wasn't supposed to be played past this point. Or if you pick control or synthesis, it wasn't supposed to continue past after Shepard makes his choice (pre-EC) or the slides (post-EC). That's where the game ends for Shepard. Roll credits.

 

What I find strange, is even though Mac specifically told you this, you bought the game anyways, and now are all up in arms about it. Can't say he told you so.

[Monica21]

Sounds like you have to do everything before that happens.
 
Leviathan can only be played after the Coup and before Cronos Station.
Omega? Same thing.
Citadel? Same thing.
Extended Cut? Before Cronos Station.
 
The game wasn't supposed to be played past this point. That's where the game ends for Shepard. Roll credits.
 
What I find strange, is even though Mac specifically told you this, you bought the game anyways, and now are all up in arms about it. Can't say he told you so.

Actually, I bought the game a year ago, well after Mac said anything about the endings. I'm not up in arms about anything. I'm correcting you, because you somehow think that the technicalities of gameplay in ME1 is the same thing as your Shepard being dead or severely injured and waking up in a world with no mass relays, no Citadel, possibly no way to communicate with other species, and Earth requiring massive rebuilding efforts. Traveling to finish up a DLC is impossible, not to mention stupid, within the world the game leaves you at the end of ME3.

So what's your point?

[rossler]

That's how they designed it. 

 

DLC before the endings. 

Everything must be done before the endings. 

 

I know where people are going with this though. After the Reapers are destroyed, you should be able to wake up and it would be like it was before this war ever happened. You expect life to continue on, and everything is fine and dandy after a whole lot of rebuilding. 

 

Despite the game initially saying (pre-EC) this isn't possible. It was only retconned because of the fan response.

 

During the Prothean invasion, each mass relay was isolated from the other ones. Transportation and communication were crippled across the entire Milky Way. So it happened before, and it was supposed to happen again with this cycle. Until people demanded a retcon and changed the story. 

[Monica21]

That's how they designed it.

Am I typing in Swahili? What am I saying that makes you think I don't know that?
 

DLC before the endings. 
Everything must be done before the endings.

Yes. And?
 

I know where people are going with this though. After the Reapers are destroyed, you should be able to wake up and it would be like it was before this war ever happened. You expect life to continue on, and everything is fine and dandy after a whole lot of rebuilding.

Nobody is "going anywhere with it." You responded to a comment from another poster about something Mac said and compared it to a gameplay decision in ME1. The comparison is not equivalent. No one, at least in this thread, has said that's what Shepard should be able to wake up to. Your response isn't even close to the context of Ieldra's response.
 

Despite the game initially saying (pre-EC) this isn't possible. It was only retconned because of the fan response.

Whatever dude.

[themikefest]

Leviathan can only be played after the Coup

 

 

I was able to play the dlc after the hologram became a platform.  Long before the coup.

 

Citadel dlc is the one that can't be played until after the coup

[StarcloudSWG]

Mac Walters was specifically responding to a question about post-ending DLC. That is, DLC which takes place in the universe's timeline AFTER the Crucible has been fired.

 

He very specifically called out the universe post-crucible as being a 'wasteland', and the tweet was posted before work on the Extended Cut was announced. That shows the original authorial intent was to "Torch the franchise and run". To make it impossible to continue with the Mass Effect universe as it was and possibly to do away with the Mass Effect universe altogether in favor of 'a new vision' of some kind.

 

Yes, all DLC for Mass Effect 3 is meant to be played before Priority: Earth, but it was never an inevitable decision. In Mass Effect 2, you certainly could play DLC after the Collector Base missions, that is, after the ending of the game.

[Monica21]

edit: Nevermind

[Prince Enigmatic]

Ok, sort of slightly off topic, but having just read through this and the other Mass Effect 3 ending thread here, I find it amazing how after all these years, Mass Effect 3's ending is still a talking piece.

 

It's ubiquitous now for the ending to be brought up whenever ME3 is cited on the internet nowadays, but for it to still be engaging with people, to still be discussed, and debated, and talked over, with alternate endings thought up and presented and multiple theories explaining it and all. I've seen it here and other places too, and I think it shows something.

 

One that none of the above changes how people's opinions of the ending stand. Nor does it change that the ending was not a good one. But the ending did do something that not a whole lot of endings can do, in any piece of fiction. I'm aware that having a bad ending usually can render it more of a talking piece than a good one, I'm just musing how I think its awesome how the ending is still being discussed over after all these years since the game came out. 

 

It's part of Mass Effect's legacy now, and for good or bad, I think maybe that Mass Effect may not be as remembered as well as a trilogy were it not for the ending. Again, for better for worse, and take it how you will. 

[Elhanan]

Ok, sort of slightly off topic, but having just read through this and the other Mass Effect 3 ending thread here, I find it amazing how after all these years, Mass Effect 3's ending is still a talking piece.
 
It's ubiquitous now for the ending to be brought up whenever ME3 is cited on the internet nowadays, but for it to still be engaging with people, to still be discussed, and debated, and talked over, with alternate endings thought up and presented and multiple theories explaining it and all. I've seen it here and other places too, and I think it shows something.
 
One that none of the above changes how people's opinions of the ending stand. Nor does it change that the ending was not a good one. But the ending did do something that not a whole lot of endings can do, in any piece of fiction. I'm aware that having a bad ending usually can render it more of a talking piece than a good one, I'm just musing how I think its awesome how the ending is still being discussed over after all these years since the game came out. 
 
It's part of Mass Effect's legacy now, and for good or bad, I think maybe that Mass Effect may not be as remembered as well as a trilogy were it not for the ending. Again, for better for worse, and take it how you will.

I like the endings; dislike the Star Child, final battle, and long cut-scenes contained therein.

However, I do agree that the conclusions still produce debate; have been watching some ME3 streams recently, and the endings remain a point of interest for discussion.

[gothpunkboy89]

but that wasn't the case at all. The Reapers, using their willing slaves, were attempting to kill the quarians when we arrived, they were simply being thwarted by the quarians' continued elusiveness. How long would things have remained that way? We don't know, but that's irrelevant to the point being made. The Reapers were searching for and attacking the quarians when given the opportunity.

This completely goes against their mandate. They shouldn't care if some organics destroy some less advanced synthetics, yet they artificially prop up the geth by providing them with their technology, and then use them as an army of pawns to hunt down the quarians and kill them. They don't even seem interested in harvesting the quarians in the slightest, seeing as they don't provide processors and their geth thralls don't have them (they have Dragon's teeth, but those only make husks, not Reapers). It makes no goddamn sense, especially when you consider that quarians are basically second in terms of importance to the Reapers in this cycle (according to comments by Harbinger in ME2).

The Reapers should be anywhere from ambivalent to thrilled that the quarians are getting rid of "an annoyance, [of] limited utility". Their actions in propping up the geth are completely inexplicable taken in the context of the endings. They don't need a proxy army of toasters like Sovereign in ME1, they have an overwhelming amount of forces as is. The Reapers intervene for no other reason than but the (poorly planned and written) plot requires it.

 

 

And despite having the advantage an over whelming advantage none of the attacks were crippling for the Quarians. That doesn't actually prove either of our points in the slightest. If the Reapers really wanted the Quarians dead they could make the Geth build a ship without the FTL deactivation sensor or simply disable it. Find them then launch the ship at FTL speed at their Live ships. The speed would be well beyond what they could react to, the explosion would take them down instantly and possibly any near by ships then the Reapers could sit back and watch them starve to death as long as they kept them away from the Relay. This is actually mentioned in a secondary codex.

 

Meanwhile, starships are too costly to be used as projectiles, given that it would take many collisions to seriously harm a Reaper. Some armchair admirals suggest that a single starship traveling faster than light could obliterate a Reaper capital ship, but all ships based on mass effect technology possess hardwired safety features to prevent FTL collisions. If a ship's FTL plotter finds a significant object in the path of a planned jump, the FTL drive refuses to fire in the first place. This is not a perfect safety feature--the sensors can only scan for objects within a reasonable distance at light speed, and a navigator must plot the rest of the course--but it is so inherent to the FTL warm-up process that removing it is nigh impossible. Cynical intelligence analysts note that the secret of mass effect technology, including that safety system, has always been attributed to the Protheans--just as the mass relays were.

http://masseffect.wi.../The_Reaper_War

 

Reapers for all intents and purposes created the very FTL systems the galaxy uses. They would know how to disable that. Secondly unlike the rest of the galaxy the Reapers see everything as expendable assets to be used to assist them. The loss of a hundred Geth ships would be as insignificant to them as the loss of dead skin cells to you when you sleep.

This doesn't go against their mandate at all the Geth would make excellent tools for their harvest the same way and reason they turn humans into husks or Turians into marauders. They don't seem interested in transforming them because there simply isn't enough of them to be worth it.  What ~17 million Quarians in the fleet? Lets go up to 20 million. For an army that number is pretty insignificant when there are billions of the other races. That Harbinger comment you mention states: considered due to cybernetic augmentation, weakened immune system too debilitating. Quarians were considered but found lacking due to their weakened immune system. When compared to the other races in the galaxy another reason for them not not attempt to turn them into husks. They only turn races into husks to be used as weapons of war anyways.

 

The act of propping up the Geth makes sense. With apparently only a small portion of the over all Geth Sovereign alone was able to take on and nearly start the harvest stopped only because the plot needed him to be stopped. If Legion's statement in ME 2 is correct and the Heretics were only a minority of the Geth getting a hold on the rest would provide extremely valuable minions to be used. Think about it if a husk gets it's head blown off the only use after that is for other units to cannibalized it or it is abandoned. Geth unit gets it's head blown off the Geth transfers out and downloads to a new body and goes back into the fight. That is the basic set up that allowed the Geth to beat the Quarians in the Morning War.  A Geth fleet backed by Reaper Destroyers and Capital ships would put the favor of the fights even more in their favor.
 

 

The "majority" of a Fleet consisting of 50,000 vessels. That still leaves you with thousands of warships that aren't really taking significant losses. In terms of military force, the Civilian vessels aren't even 1/3 of the Fleet's strength according to the War Assets (maximum of 250 vs the same for the Patrol Fleet and 280 for the Heavy Fleet). The majority of the ships were still intact because the quarians are tactically and strategically adept (it says it right there in the description, if you're literate), well, at least they are when they don't have geth sympathizer(s) deliberately feeding them false intel and providing their entire order of battle to the enemy.

 

 

Majority means at least 51% of the fleet were civilian ships not suited for direct combat. Assuming it is only 51% that would mean 25,500 ships were part of the civilian fleet leaving only 24,500 ships to be divided among the Patrol and Heavy Fleet. And this is best case set up for the Quarians. More realistically the civilian fleet would probably be 60-70% of the fleet. Going with the lower 60% of the entire Fleet would mean  only 20,000 ships would be part of the Patrol and Heavy Fleets. Their Civilian Fleet was armed but it is the equivalent of putting a 120MM cannon on a Ford Pinto and sending it into battle.  So yea when the majority of their fleet is incapable of engaging in any sort of direct conflict. And again the reason the Civilian Fleet gives so few War Assets is because they pulled the equivalent of strapping tank weapons to Honda Civics. Now correct me if I'm wrong but strapping a machine gun to the hood of a GM Savana Van isn't quite the same as using a Couger 6x6 MRAP. armored troop transport in the middle of a battle now is it?

 

So I repeat when only 40% of your fleets are even capable of fighting it isn't a surprise when over all the majority of your fleet is still intact. This also goes against your statement that the Geth and Reapers by extension were hunting to kill them. The only thing they had that allowed them to be successful against the Geth was the jammer they created. Using that is what gave them the advantage over the Geth to allow the attack to even start. With the addition of the Reaper influence and the elimination of the jammer as effective the Quarians have nothing to do to stand up against them. Assuming the Geth and Quarian fleets are over all equal in number the Quarians only have 20,000 ships to use while the Geth have 50,000 ships to use. This is known as having a massive advantage when your own troops out number your enemy by 2x their own numbers. This is on top of the fact the Qurians are using old out dated ships. The equivalent of someone pulling a WW 1 Battleship out of mothball, fixing the engines up and then going into battle against a brand new modern ship.

 

The "strategy" the Quarians seem to be using seems to be the same strategy 5 year olds come up with when playing tag. They pick a large object that can not be reached around easily and stay just on the other side so the person trying to tag them can't get to them. Which could work if it is 1 vs 1. But when you are dealing with multiple people and when most of one side are basically kids with broken legs and crutches not very effective when the entire team trying to catch them are basically all foot ball players.

 

This strategy only would work if the Geth were not trying to simply wipe them all out. What it would do is wipe out their ships capable of engaging in combat leaving their civilians which can't put up a fight and contain the majority of the Quarians in tact.

 

Then why weren't the quarians already dead when we showed up? As established, the Reapers and their upgraded geth proxies were already trying to take them out (again in complete disregard of the Reaper mandate to preserve organic life). What are they waiting for? Are they Bond villians, waiting for Shep to show up and use the Migrant Fleet to foil their plan, instead of just blowing up the Migrant Fleet so Shep can't do anything, and in the process also preventing their army of geth allies from turning traitor (again)?

The Dreadnought actually took 6 frigates if you could be bothered to look up lore details to inform your shitposts (which you clearly can't). You're making this out like it's some kind of big deal, but frigates are small fry, basically scouting vessels only one ship class above fighters. According to the codex, 6 frigates is a single "wolf pack".
http://masseffect.wi...rships#Frigates
Now, it might have been bad to lose heavy cruisers or a carrier, but losing a few frigates comprising .0000012% of your fleet to inflict damage on the enemy flagship isn't a bad trade at all. The quarians likely have thousands more of them.

What evidence do you have that the toaster's "gesture of cooperation" was even necessary for anything but attempting to manipulate Shepard? (rhetorical question, I know you're averse to providing evidence). The quarians clearly managed to take the Dreadnought's barriers offline on their own in the first battle (otherwise there wouldn't have been any physical damage), and in the current battle they had completely destroyed the Dreadnought's support fleet and were pounding it from all sides (look at the space outside shortly before it blows). Seeing as there's a precedent for them being able to take down the ship's barriers on their own, it was only a matter of time before the ship was destroyed regardless of the toaster's attempted manipulation of Shep. With the Reaper upgrades temporarily offline until the surface signal could be put in place, geth reinforcements would not have been forthcoming, and would've been ineffective anyway. Hell, since there was now no fear of retaliation, if they wanted to expedite the process they could have employed the Liveship cannons they had half a system away, just like they do in the final battle (source Codex/The Reaper War)

"After the quarians eliminated the Reaper, the geth's processing power dropped precipitously and their bandwidth became clogged with queries for new instructions. Quarian fighters reported the exact positions of geth ships so that the liveships could fire safely on the geth from the far side of Tikkun, using the star's gravity as a slingshot. The geth command-and-control network was now in tatters, their forces separated by vast distances. The quarians hunted them like animals."

Which are quite clearly capable of destroying geth dreadnoughts, seeing as the geth supposedly had around as many as the turians (37) before the quarians attacked them. I wonder what happened to them? It seems you are the one who is "lacking in logic" here (as usual). There's really nothing to suggest that they couldn't have taken out that ship on their own, seeing as they've done it a dozen times before. It may have been more difficult, and they have potentially taken more losses, but all the pieces were there. They weren't even asking for Shep's help (Hackett was asking for their help, and sends Shep to get their fleet's assistance), and Gerrel clearly doesn't really care all that much about keeping them around.

 

 

As I stated the Geth or I should say the Reapers were not interested in out right killing off the Quarians. Oh no I stated only 3 ships instead of 6 clearly I'm completely off by stating slightly less of the amount. Seriously it is amusing how you complain about me missing 3 ships. Not that I made stuff up but that I didn't remember the exact number of ships and actually went in under the real amount.  It doesn't matter if they are only Frigates they are still capable of massive fire power when working together. You are basically saying that it is only 6 pounds of TNT. Well that 6 pounds can do a lot of damage.  And if the Frigates are nothing then why would Gerrel send them rather then something a bit more heavy against it? The simple reason being that the Frigates are still capable of dealing significant amount of damage when working in a group. And he was banking on their increased maneuverability to out move the Dreadnought and they still only made an ultimately insignificant amount of damage.

 

Yes lose 0.000012% of the fleet to take on their flag ship in a one on 6 fight and the Capital ship walks away with the equivalent of a scuffed knee. Tell me if the ship wasn't a threat simply because it was only frigates it blew up why did Gerrel not even attempt to wait for Shepard and group to escape? And Gerrel controls the Heavy Fleet the big guns  of the Quarian Fleet and it was still able to hold together despite being completely vulnerable for Shep and crew to escape it.
And yes post Legion disabling not only the Reaper signal which it's body was being used to transmit and post him shutting down the ships the Quarian fleets were able to destroy it. But again this was only AFTER these two events. The biggest one being Legion disrupting the long range Reaper signal being sent to the Geth by being freed by Shep and crew. This isn't really a show of military prowess or strength.

 

 

12:18 shows leading up to this only Quarian ships being destroyed.  Mean while 1:05:39 AFTER the Reaper Signal and the Ship is disabled it shows the Quarians taking the ship down. And if you continue to watch the video right before the Geth ship finally blows up when it showed the Quarians leaving to avoid the explosion there is no wreckage in the space around it. Even though earlier there was heavy fighting around it. Meaning there is no proof the Quarians were able to take the rest of the Geth ships. The only thing it shows is them taking out the disabled Geth Dreadnought and even that took ~11 ships of the Heavy Fleet to do that.

 

Leading up to that point starting at 1:01:52 Raan prepares the Civillian Fleet to escape and be covered by the Patrol Fleet once the Heavy Fleet is in position. Gerrel ignores that and attacks. Raan is initially willing to sit back as Gerrel does something stupid but only agrees to assist when he points out that without the Patrol Fleet the Heavy Fleet will be wiped out. Without the Heavy Fleet the Patrol Fleet will lack the ability to repel the Geth's responds. Basically twisting her arm into helping him.

 

Yes they are capable of destroying Dreadnoughts when their targets are confused and just standing around because they don't know what to do. Again not a sign of military prowess or capability when you attack a confused and disorganized enemny. Any group can beat someone in that set up.

 

And should the Geth have won the Codex says thus:

 

The quarians re-engaged the geth fleet, expecting to find their enemy now hobbled. Instead, the geth responded with unparalleled precision, devastating the fighters that the quarians used as scout ships. This forced the quarians to commit other forces earlier than planned. The geth then attacked the quarian rear with a second fleet that they had held in reserve, laying waste to the liveships and Civilian Fleet. The quarians, knowing the liveships would not survive long if they were forced to retreat without protection, threw every ship into the battle. The geth fought mechanically, downing ship after ship as the quarians flailed in desperation. Some few quarian ships did escape -- but alone and on the run in geth space, they are living numbered days.

 

So again the Quarian victory is based on the Geth being hobbled by the destruction of the Reaper and it's signal. The Geth vicotory is based on the Geth not being the idiots you make them out to be. Acting like hiding behind the sun is brilliant master plan that makes them completely invisible to the Geth. When the entire Geth victory set up is based on them knowing exactly were they are and attacking their rear to force them to split their forces. And rather importantly BOTH set ups involve the Quarians initiate the attack that either wipes the Geth out or wipes them out.

 

Yes, because of the aforementioned video game logic. Let's examine what Shepard actually brings to the table and does:

-provides a stealth frigate capable of evading Reaper sensors to infiltrate the Dreadnought (let's ignore that the Admirals literally just met us on a stealth frigate that was capable of passing through Tikkun's relay 2 seconds ago)
-volunteers to board the dreadnought currently hindering the quarians and disable the Reaper signal booster without being asked (cool, but the quarians have Marines that could do this with access to the aforementioned ship)
-shoots some toasters
-gets trapped in the Dreadnought's operations center and needs to be bailed out by Tali/Xen
-Is shot at by geth, nearly falls down an elevator shaft to their death, and is again rescued by the quarian
-wastes time shooting the breeze with a talking toaster that supposedly wants to defect instead of destroying it and getting off the ship. (Gerrel rightfully gets fed up and provides some motivation to get moving)
-Later brings it to strategic planning sessions where it predictably lies and dangerously manipulates Shep and the quarians to achieve its actual objectives. Why they continue to keep this strategic liability around is anyone's guess (but it's video game logic).
-attacks the Reaper base while the quarians occupy the geth
-uses a quarian designed targeting laser from Xen to designate a Reaper destroyer so that the Migrant Fleet can destroy it (and the inexplicably invulnerable Destroyer is nice enough to expose its videogamey weakpoint for Shep, instead of simply walking up and squashing them)
-potentially helps the geth re-upload it's Reaper crap right in the middle of their counterattack, perhaps without even bothering to tell their allies, and ruins the entire quarian strategic plan (while Admiral Useless inexplicably stands there doing nothing), to the result of quarian destruction or forced capitualation

There was no need for Shep specifically to rescue Koris either (could have sent Reegar and some mooks or whatever), and he isn't needed for victory anyway. The only thing Shep really does that they couldn't have is go into the propaganda server (at the geth traitor's behest) to shut off the Fighter Squadron, but they don't need to do that to win, it just helps them take less Civilian losses.

Basically, Shep's role is that of a big dumb footsoldier, which even if we grant they are really good at to levels of Mary Sueishness, the Migrant Fleet has a population of millions of able bodied men and women. According to Arrival (or rather what happens to the Allinace's 103rd when you elect not to do it) Shep's roughly equivalent to half a division (8-10,000 troops)
http://masseffect.wi..._3_Consequences

Ignoring how ridiculous I feel being someone who actually knows how a military formation operates and typing this fantasy-esque garbage, I'd think the quarians could spare a few thousand Reegars just to board a dreadnought to kill a few dozen geth defending it, and then hold a laser designator (freeing up Shep to do other things for the war effort if they want) if the plot didn't require us to, but that's just me. I didn't write this action schlock.

The game supports every argument I've made, often inadvertently through bad writing. However, I'm beginning to doubt you've even played it with the frequent nonsense and factual lore inaccuracies you spew all over this forum in slavish fanboi defense of its obvious flaws (such as the entirety of the completely nonsense Rannoch arc).

 

 

-Shepard's Frigate comes with a build in AI that would be able to match if not exceed the cyber warfare ability of the Geth. The only reason that Shepard is even capable of getting on the ship is thanks to EDI's cyber war fair abilities. Other wise the Quarians would need to get the stealth ship in and hope their hacking skills can match the Geth. Which all previous games show no. Organic's fail when it comes to Geth and hacking.

 

-Quarian Marines would be killed even easier then Shepard group. Suit breaches would grind them to a halt if the Geth put up enough of a resistance. Minor suit rupture put Kal Reggar in the hospital for 2 weeks to recover from a minor wound and out right stated that face to face combat with the Geth will always be against the Quarians that they would need to beat them ship to ship.

 

-Quarian Marines would also get trapped in there and would need to be bailed out by Tali or Xen. So wait first you mention the Quarian Marines could have done something then suddenly only Shepard could have this happen to him.

 

-Again same could happen to other Quarians. I hope you actually have a point to all this because you don't really have proof Shep nearly falling down an elevator is suddenly something that only would happen to him.

 

-You do realize it is the act of freeing Legion that starts the Geth attacking right? Even if they shot a rocket launcher at Legion the second they saw it the Geth of the ship would still attack. Only this time the sheilds would still be up and the ship would still be laying into the Heavy Fleet. With the ship not about to blow up the Geth would have no reason to start abandoning ship by downloading out of it. Meaning you would have a fire fight all the way to the hanger. And I repeat again prolonged fire fights for Quarians against Geth generally don't end well for Quarians. On top of this the Patrol and Heavy Fleet are still trying to protect the Civillan fleet as well. Making them more or less easier targets as the actual military crafts try to protect the non military crafts.

 

- Yes likes and manipulates Shepard to get what it wants just like the Quarians. You know telling Shep that if he/she disables the signal they will retreat to the Relay and escape and instead stay and continue fighting.

 

- Yes the Reaper fires a beam up into the sky ignoring the tiny figures in front of it till the combined forces of the entire Quarian Fleet unload on it from orbit finally killing it.  You know how I know the Destroyer did that?

 

 

Were Traynor states that it fired up at them a few times and Joker had to put the Normandy into some very fancy maneuvers to avoid being hit. Which is also the point that Traynor stats that she wanted to tear the Reaper in half because of what it was doing. 

 

Much like the Kai Lang fight on Thessia you really need to be able to separate game play mechanics (IE firing multiple time at Shep slowly advancing) and what happens story wise. Which again is the Reaper firing at Shep and into the sky a few times with the Quarians taking it out on the first lock on. Because when you talk to the Reaper after blowing it up it isn't within spitting distance anymore like it was when the final lock on happens.

 

-Um stop twisting things to suit your own needs. Tali attempts to warn the fleet to stop attacking if you side with the Geth. Gerrel how ever ignores Tali and keeps pressing the attack.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0zlfcRx8Is

 

Seriously do you even pay attention to things?

 

Foot Solider is basically all Shep does across all games so how is this suddenly some massive variation to the norm? If you take into account Shep doesn't actually do all these things with just 3 people but for game play mechanics it limits it to 3 people the part isn't as odd. Shepard, Garrus, Liara, James, Ashley/Kadien, Javik and Tali/Xen. But seriously this over the top action of Shepard being able to take down groups that normally would take massive amounts isn't a suprise. Remember that time in ME 1 were 5 Salarians and 1 Human were able to distract and take on Saren's entire base? And I love how you jump from 8-10,000 troops because you don't actually have a number so you want to push it to the extreme end. Then gain you did state that you would simply keep using the Crucible post Destroy choice to wipe out any synthetics that rebelled ignoring the fact it would cause wide spread death to all non synthetics as well. As it would effect every ship, every power planet and every person on life support as well as stranding people for months to years at a time as the Relays are rebuild causing even more death if that area lacks the resources needed to support the population for that time.

 

Just because the Quarians have a large population doesn't mean every single one of them is set up for combat. Quarians have only a limited ground military force limited to enforcing laws in the Flotilla. Since you know they aren't really suited for ground combat what with that immune system issue. 1,000 Kal Reggars thrown at the Flagship would mean a significantly depleted portion of Marines for ground combat at the Reaper base. Even if not our right killed being put down with in infection would still prevent them from being useful. Which again without Legion acting as a a code breaker hacking doors and distracting the Geth inside would face even heavier resistance.

 

It almost seems like you don't follow what happens in the game. Ignoring what you don't want to see to fit what you do want to see.

[Monica21]

It almost seems like you don't follow what happens in the game. Ignoring what you don't want to see to fit what you do want to see.

Oh my.

[Prince Enigmatic]

Will The Circle (Rannoch Debate) Be Unbroken?