2442 réponses à ce sujet

[Monica21]

Because again we would never need to expand that far. And working under the assumption we did expand that far we certainly wouldn't be shipping corn from The Perseus Veil to the Nimbus Cluster. Athena Nebula would be a much more logical place to ship it from if they needed it. I really didn't think I needed to explain this basic set up to you.

I think what you need to explain to me is why you think necessity is a factor at all. In the whole history of human exploration we never went anywhere because it was a necessity. We explored because we want to know what's over the next hill. We didn't need to go to the moon, but we did. We don't need to go to Mars, but we will.

Maybe one day we'll figure out how to cross the galaxy in a day and establish a colony somewhere, but I guarantee you that if we do, it won't be because we needed to.

[gothpunkboy89]

I think what you need to explain to me is why you think necessity is a factor at all. In the whole history of human exploration we never went anywhere because it was a necessity. We explored because we want to know what's over the next hill. We didn't need to go to the moon, but we did. We don't need to go to Mars, but we will.

Maybe one day we'll figure out how to cross the galaxy in a day and establish a colony somewhere, but I guarantee you that if we do, it won't be because we needed to.

 

We would expand were feasible building the infrastructure needed before we expand again. There is a reason we haven't started building on the Moon yet even though we do have the technology to make it possible. There is a reason why that whole win a one way ticket to Mars thing ended up going no were.  The technology to do that exists how ever we lack the infrastructure needed to support a colony on any celestial body even our moon.

 

Which again all of this I was working under the assumption you would be well aware of. So let me ask you this does your ranty mc rant posts actually have anything valid to state or are you just looking to pick a fight? Because you nave not yet actually addressed anything I stated.

[Monica21]

We would expand were feasible building the infrastructure needed before we expand again. There is a reason we haven't started building on the Moon yet even though we do have the technology to make it possible. There is a reason why that whole win a one way ticket to Mars thing ended up going no were.  The technology to do that exists how ever we lack the infrastructure needed to support a colony on any celestial body even our moon.
 
Which again all of this I was working under the assumption you would be well aware of. So let me ask you this does your ranty mc rant posts actually have anything valid to state or are you just looking to pick a fight? Because you nave not yet actually addressed anything I stated.

Did you miss the conversation with Sovereign at Virmire? No, you haven't because you've posted the video in response to others. So you must have only understood the parts that were relevant to you. The mass relays aren't just fancy technology. The mass relays are the infrastructure. We develop along paths they choose.

Your original attempt at making a point was, "mass relays are silly because no one would mind traveling for 23 years." And that's an ill-conceived argument. And then I explain that yes, in fact, speed and mode of transportation does matter. And then you try to make it about colony resupply. And then you try to make it about the necessity of space travel and colonization. And now you try to make it about infrastructure. The infrastructure actually already established by the existence of the relays. Do you really think that if there wasn't a safe, quick means to build a base on the moon that we wouldn't already have done it? Do you really think that if there wasn't a safe, quick means to travel to Mars that we wouldn't already have done it?

And what exactly are you arguing now? Your original reply was in response to someone discussing how big the galaxy is and how long it would take to travel it, and that the relays would "be pointless to build." Do you still want to stand by that?

[gothpunkboy89]

Did you miss the conversation with Sovereign at Virmire? No, you haven't because you've posted the video in response to others. So you must have only understood the parts that were relevant to you. The mass relays aren't just fancy technology. The mass relays are the infrastructure. We develop along paths they choose.

Your original attempt at making a point was, "mass relays are silly because no one would mind traveling for 23 years." And that's an ill-conceived argument. And then I explain that yes, in fact, speed and mode of transportation does matter. And then you try to make it about colony resupply. And then you try to make it about the necessity of space travel and colonization. And now you try to make it about infrastructure. The infrastructure actually already established by the existence of the relays. Do you really think that if there wasn't a safe, quick means to build a base on the moon that we wouldn't already have done it? Do you really think that if there wasn't a safe, quick means to travel to Mars that we wouldn't already have done it?

And what exactly are you arguing now? Your original reply was in response to someone discussing how big the galaxy is and how long it would take to travel it, and that the relays would "be pointless to build." Do you still want to stand by that?

 

And yet if the claim of 23 years to cross the entire galaxy in a straight line almost negates the purpose of the Mass Relays. Because any civilizations advanced enough to make interstellar travel possible at speeds faster then light would render the Relays pointless with just a little bit of common sense approach to it. Starting in the system they developed in any even slightly intelligent species would advance by finding the nearest garden planet capable of supporting life. Which would only be weeks or maybe month or two away. Develop that area to the same self sustaining level as their original system then advanced to the next.  It would start slowly but it would form a spider web like set up were each garden planet is a self sustaining hub world that expands into lesser areas that might need support. Before it extends to the next new link to be developed.

 

Yes it would make someone wanting to visit Earth from one of the outer colonies to be a much much longer trip taking months maybe even a year depending on how far they are out. But supplies wouldn't need to be shipped any farther then the next hub garden world. Military can expand creating ship yards in each system to ensure that area is protected and not relying on ships that would take weeks to months to reach them. The game makes the Relays out to be super important in the growth, development and spread of life across the galaxy. In reality they are just a convenience. Which really makes the first Contact War seem stupid. It also direct hurts anyone who might try to claim that the Citadel controls the relays and who ever controls that controls them. Because it makes you realize this is less OH **** WE ARE SCREWED THEY LOCKED DOWN THE RELAY moment and more mild inconvenience as we make our way to the next system regardless.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Did you miss the conversation with Sovereign at Virmire? No, you haven't because you've posted the video in response to others. So you must have only understood the parts that were relevant to you. The mass relays aren't just fancy technology. The mass relays are the infrastructure. We develop along paths they choose.

Your original attempt at making a point was, "mass relays are silly because no one would mind traveling for 23 years." And that's an ill-conceived argument. And then I explain that yes, in fact, speed and mode of transportation does matter. And then you try to make it about colony resupply. And then you try to make it about the necessity of space travel and colonization. And now you try to make it about infrastructure. The infrastructure actually already established by the existence of the relays. Do you really think that if there wasn't a safe, quick means to build a base on the moon that we wouldn't already have done it? Do you really think that if there wasn't a safe, quick means to travel to Mars that we wouldn't already have done it?

And what exactly are you arguing now? Your original reply was in response to someone discussing how big the galaxy is and how long it would take to travel it, and that the relays would "be pointless to build." Do you still want to stand by that?

 

We'll get to Mars eventually. Goth must be running out of places to move that goalpost.

[Monica21]

And yet if the claim of 23 years to cross the entire galaxy in a straight line almost negates the purpose of the Mass Relays. Because any civilizations advanced enough to make interstellar travel possible at speeds faster then light would render the Relays pointless with just a little bit of common sense approach to it. Starting in the system they developed in any even slightly intelligent species would advance by finding the nearest garden planet capable of supporting life. Which would only be weeks or maybe month or two away. Develop that area to the same self sustaining level as their original system then advanced to the next.  It would start slowly but it would form a spider web like set up were each garden planet is a self sustaining hub world that expands into lesser areas that might need support. Before it extends to the next new link to be developed.

 

Yes it would make someone wanting to visit Earth from one of the outer colonies to be a much much longer trip taking months maybe even a year depending on how far they are out. But supplies wouldn't need to be shipped any farther then the next hub garden world. Military can expand creating ship yards in each system to ensure that area is protected and not relying on ships that would take weeks to months to reach them. The game makes the Relays out to be super important in the growth, development and spread of life across the galaxy. In reality they are just a convenience. Which really makes the first Contact War seem stupid. It also direct hurts anyone who might try to claim that the Citadel controls the relays and who ever controls that controls them. Because it makes you realize this is less OH **** WE ARE SCREWED THEY LOCKED DOWN THE RELAY moment and more mild inconvenience as we make our way to the next system regardless.

 

You're basically saying that cities mean you don't need air travel. Need to get from city to city? Just make it a "hub" and transport goods there. Gosh, if things really worked like that the flyover states would be booming.
 

And if this is your opinion then fine, but it's not a good opinion.

[Elhanan]

There are multiple theories in Sci-Fi for FTL, and a few are related to what has already been done in the lore. No need to re-invent the wheel; simply adapt, and use something else.

Or use Synthesis, and keep what already is extant....

[Natureguy85]

I hate you, Monica for making me do this, but you're allowing your emotions to get the better of you due to all the other stupid crap gothpunkboy has posted. While it seems a shift from his actual original point, which was that colonies won't be in trouble without fast travel, all he was saying on the issue that you're discussing was that the smaller time period of merely 23 years as opposed to centuries diminishes the importance of the Mass Relays to the setting, which is correct. I know he said "pointless" but you know how he exaggerates everything.  This is a point that reaches back to the original world building of the first game, not an attempt to say that everything is ok now. And remember, that 23 years is to cross the entire galaxy. All sorts of trips would be faster. This makes the Relays a convenience as opposed to miracle machines.

 

 

 

You're basically saying that cities mean you don't need air travel. Need to get from city to city? Just make it a "hub" and transport goods there. Gosh, if things really worked like that the flyover states would be booming.

 

Things do work like that. That city is called Chicago and it's the third largest city in the country for that exact reason..

[gothpunkboy89]

I hate you, Monica for making me do this, but you're allowing your emotions to get the better of you due to all the other stupid crap gothpunkboy has posted. While it seems a shift from his actual original point, which was that colonies won't be in trouble without fast travel, all he was saying on the issue that you're discussing was that the smaller time period of merely 23 years as opposed to centuries diminishes the importance of the Mass Relays to the setting, which is correct. I know he said "pointless" but you know how he exaggerates everything.  This is a point that reaches back to the original world building of the first game, not an attempt to say that everything is ok now. And remember, that 23 years is to cross the entire galaxy. All sorts of trips would be faster. This makes the Relays a convenience as opposed to miracle machines.

 

 

 

 

Things do work like that. That city is called Chicago and it's the third largest city in the country for that exact reason..

 

I said pretty pointless.

 

adverb

informal

adverb: pretty

1.

to a moderately high degree; fairly.

[Natureguy85]

 

I said pretty pointless.

 

adverb

informal

adverb: pretty

1.

to a moderately high degree; fairly.

 

 

Which is still an exaggeration. The Relays still have use and are far from pointless, but the underlying point that the quicker time diminishes their significance is correct.

[Monica21]

I hate you, Monica for making me do this, but you're allowing your emotions to get the better of you due to all the other stupid crap gothpunkboy has posted.

You could have just PM'd me this and I would have told you why you were wrong in private.

While it seems a shift from his actual original point, which was that colonies won't be in trouble without fast travel,

It is a shift away from his original point, which I'm finding tiresome. If you want to say it's "emotions" then okay.

all he was saying on the issue that you're discussing was that the smaller time period of merely 23 years as opposed to centuries diminishes the importance of the Mass Relays to the setting, which is correct.

And I'm saying 23 years isn't "merely" anything when referring to travel time. Twenty three years is a very long time.

I know he said "pointless" but you know how he exaggerates everything.  This is a point that reaches back to the original world building of the first game, not an attempt to say that everything is ok now. And remember, that 23 years is to cross the entire galaxy. All sorts of trips would be faster. This makes the Relays a convenience as opposed to miracle machines.

I do know he exaggerates everything and he's flat out wrong about almost everything. That said, pointless to whom? Humanity was on its way to that kind of system before they discovered the relays. There was an outpost on Mars and then Gagarin Station, and then the discovery of the Charon Relay. You could say that every step up from walking or riding a horse across undeveloped land is a convenience. We have highways but that doesn't make air travel pointless. Getting where you want to go faster has always been important. And denying its importance is silly. That's why the Reapers built the relays. 
 

Things do work like that. That city is called Chicago and it's the third largest city in the country for that exact reason..

Chicago? Haven't heard of it.

[Natureguy85]

You could have just PM'd me this and I would have told you why you were wrong in private.

 

Yeah, but dummy is always accusing everyone of disagreeing with him for its own sake and this was a chance to demonstrate otherwise

 

 

 

And I'm saying 23 years isn't "merely" anything when referring to travel time. Twenty three years is a very long time.

 

23 years isn't "merely" everything on its own, but it is when compared to centuries, which was the point. In this setting, in relation to percentage of a lifetime, it's relatively short for an Asari or Krogan. So while the species of the galaxy might not have populated the entire galaxy as they currently have, they would probably have still expanded beyond their own home systems.

 

 

 

 

I do know he exaggerates everything and he's flat out wrong about almost everything.
 

 

Yep.

[gothpunkboy89]

Which is still an exaggeration. The Relays still have use and are far from pointless, but the underlying point that the quicker time diminishes their significance is correct.

 

Only time the relays would shine is when we are talking about crossing the entire galaxy. But in a world were Relays do not exist no single species would expand that much. Less Star Wars were races can cross the entire galaxy in weeks or months and more Star Trek were multiple races control or have at least explored only a quarter of the galaxy. And even that can take weeks to do depending on how far they are going and at what warp speed.

 

For realistic expansion of any single race they aren't needed. They could have been ignored by the various races and the only thing that would change is they wouldn't be as wide spread. Well that and the Quarians would be dead.

[Monica21]

23 years isn't "merely" everything on its own, but it is when compared to centuries, which was the point. In this setting, in relation to percentage of a lifetime, it's relatively short for an Asari or Krogan. So while the species of the galaxy might not have populated the entire galaxy as they currently have, they would probably have still expanded beyond their own home systems.

I completely agree with this. Especially since the discovery of Element Zero and playing around with FTL was all before the discovery of the Charon Relay.

[Natureguy85]

Only time the relays would shine is when we are talking about crossing the entire galaxy. But in a world were Relays do not exist no single species would expand that much. Less Star Wars were races can cross the entire galaxy in weeks or months and more Star Trek were multiple races control or have at least explored only a quarter of the galaxy. And even that can take weeks to do depending on how far they are going and at what warp speed.

 

For realistic expansion of any single race they aren't needed. They could have been ignored by the various races and the only thing that would change is they wouldn't be as wide spread. Well that and the Quarians would be dead.

 

Exactly. The Relays are still necessary to have the game galaxy as is, but they seem far less marvelous if certain journeys are "merely" long and/or hard rather than impossible.

[N7 Vindicator]

I agree with the OP. To me, the destroy ending seems like the most logical. After fighting against the reapers for so long, don't you think Shep will just want to get it over with and destroy them once and for all? Not just Shep but most of the people in the planets that the reapers have taken would want this. They aren't looking for help to rebuild or extra knowledge regarding the previous cycles. They just want to make sure that they are safe.

 

It can be argued that organics will eventually build synthetics and the cycle will continue but if so, it can also be argued that the control over the reapers will not last forever. How can we trust that a threat to the entire galaxy during the whole trilogy can be restrained and controlled forever? Isn't there the slightest of chance that the amount of  control over the reapers is not limitless? If so, then a time would come when they are released from control and they would start the cycle all over again.

 

I chose the destroy ending on my first playthrough because getting rid of the threat for sure seemed more logical than opting for control which cannot be assured forever(At least thats what I think). 

[Prince Enigmatic]

So much negativity on this thread how has a mod not locked this yet?

 

Plus I am amazed the same debate/argument not totally related to the ending has been going on for the past couple of weeks and pages. 

[Iakus]

So much negativity on this thread how has a mod not locked this yet?

 

The endings evoke negative feelings in a lot of people.  this is the result.

 

But hey, they wanted an ending that would be talked about, right? 

[gothpunkboy89]

The endings evoke negative feelings in a lot of people.  this is the result.

 

But hey, they wanted an ending that would be talked about, right? 

 

Some less then other.

[rossler]

So much negativity on this thread how has a mod not locked this yet?

 

Working as intended

 

Something else I found related to that:

 

[gothpunkboy89]

Working as intended

 

Something else I found related to that:

 

 

No one ever likes everything.

 

Most complaints seem to be like B V S Dawn of Justice. Not actually a bad movie but people try to pick small issues and explode them into massive ones.

[The One True Nobody]

For me, the one and only sticking point is that EDI and the geth die if the Destroy option is chosen. Not only is this a major bummer, but Tali will also tell you that if they've made peace with the geth, the geth are actually helping to speed the process of the quarians strengthening their immune systems, meaning the geth have become an important part of the Rannoch restoration effort. Tali explains that this will allow quarians who are still alive now to one day inhabit the planet without their suits. Screwing over the geth in this circumstance also hurts the quarians.

 

The main issue in choosing the other two options is that Shepard has no way of knowing it will work. He/she has no way of knowing that the Destroy option will work, either, but it's a simpler, more straightforward option and doesn't require Shepard to vaporize him/herself to accomplish.

 

If the geth haven't survived to that point, then it's just a matter of losing EDI and I don't see Shepard being so conflicted about it that he/she would risk the other two choices.

[Raphamon]

People who say that the Synthesis ending is the best clearly have no idea what the Synthesis ending is really about. Think on this for a moment: the Synthesis ending takes away free will. It effectively turns all beings in the universe into one huge hive-mind with no free will. (Think the Zerg from the Star Craft series).

 

Now, everyone who thinks that Synthesis is a good ending, please explain to me how the removal of one's free will is a good thing? Synthesis is the game's "bad" ending in my honest opinion. What is the point of life if there is no free will?

 

And yeah, the whole Shepard dying and being resurrected part at the beginning of Mass Effect 2 was ridiculous. They're basically saying that in the Mass Effect universe a person can be fully resurrected from a single drop of blood or single strand of DNA no matter how degraded that blood/DNA may be.

[gothpunkboy89]

People who say that the Synthesis ending is the best clearly have no idea what the Synthesis ending is really about. Think on this for a moment: the Synthesis ending takes away free will. It effectively turns all beings in the universe into one huge hive-mind with no free will. (Think the Zerg from the Star Craft series).

 

Now, everyone who thinks that Synthesis is a good ending, please explain to me how the removal of one's free will is a good thing? Synthesis is the game's "bad" ending in my honest opinion. What is the point of life if there is no free will?

 

And yeah, the whole Shepard dying and being resurrected part at the beginning of Mass Effect 2 was ridiculous. They're basically saying that in the Mass Effect universe a person can be fully resurrected from a single drop of blood or single strand of DNA no matter how degraded that blood/DNA may be.

 

 

People have used that argument about removing free will. Yet the only evidence of that is Wrev a blood thirsty phyco no longer being a blood thirsty phyco.

[Natureguy85]

For me, the one and only sticking point is that EDI and the geth die if the Destroy option is chosen. Not only is this a major bummer, but Tali will also tell you that if they've made peace with the geth, the geth are actually helping to speed the process of the quarians strengthening their immune systems, meaning the geth have become an important part of the Rannoch restoration effort. Tali explains that this will allow quarians who are still alive now to one day inhabit the planet without their suits. Screwing over the geth in this circumstance also hurts the quarians.

 

The main issue in choosing the other two options is that Shepard has no way of knowing it will work. He/she has no way of knowing that the Destroy option will work, either, but it's a simpler, more straightforward option and doesn't require Shepard to vaporize him/herself to accomplish.

 

If the geth haven't survived to that point, then it's just a matter of losing EDI and I don't see Shepard being so conflicted about it that he/she would risk the other two choices.

 

Not only does he not know if they will work, he (and we the audience) doesn't really even know what they are.