So one line and you build an entire set up around it?
It's as if you haven't read single freaking thing I've typed. I've said a HELL of a lot more than that in support of my idea. An entire paragraph worth. But I guess pretending that is my entire argument makes it easier to make a strawman out of it, huh?
"why are you here?" can have different meanings...
"wtf are you doing here?!!?!" -> expresses surprise, something unexpected, perhaps even unwanted
"what purpose has brought you here? What is that you want?" -> expresses curiosity, inquisitive and probing attitude
The first meaning is quite incompatible with the scenario in which the catalyst has brought Shepard in front of him in order to use the crucible (and thus, hacking interpretation).
The second meaning, on the other hand, is fully compatible.
I personally think that both interpretation are ok.
It's as if you haven't read single freaking thing I've typed. I've said a HELL of a lot more than that in support of my idea. An entire paragraph worth. But I guess pretending that is my entire argument makes it easier to make a strawman out of it, huh?
He is the king of strawmen. Bow before him.
"why are you here?" can have different meanings...
"wtf are you doing here?!!?!" -> expresses surprise, something unexpected, perhaps even unwanted
"what purpose has brought you here? What is that you want?" -> expresses curiosity, inquisitive and probing attitude
The first meaning is quite incompatible with the scenario in which the catalyst has brought Shepard in front of him in order to use the crucible (and thus, hacking interpretation).
The second meaning, on the other hand, is fully compatible.
I personally think that both interpretation are ok.
You're right on the first point but the Catalyst knows Shepard came to destroy them.
"why are you here?" can have different meanings...
"wtf are you doing here?!!?!" -> expresses surprise, something unexpected, perhaps even unwanted
"what purpose has brought you here? What is that you want?" -> expresses curiosity, inquisitive and probing attitude
The first meaning is quite incompatible with the scenario in which the catalyst has brought Shepard in front of him in order to use the crucible (and thus, hacking interpretation).
The second meaning, on the other hand, is fully compatible.
I personally think that both interpretation are ok.
He is the king of strawmen. Bow before him.
The collective intelligence of the anthill/hive controls the worker bees/ants? Do the ants/bees belong to the anthill/hive? We can say so. They work and live and act and kill in harmony and amazing coordination, in order to fullfill a higher e complex purpose.
But they cannot divert from that purpose: the individual workers bees will always try pollinate in spring, and if under attack, the individual ant will always try to defend the anthill and the queen.
So the reapers. The fact that there is a "higher" collective intelligence, which gave them purpose and coordination (the catalyst), doesn't necessarly mean that the catalyst is able to control them like puppets.
So, in order to stop the extinction cycle and let this special cycle survive, the "bees/ants" need to
a. evolve (synthesis)
b. be enslaved/controlled (sheparlyst)
c. be destroyed
And if a. and b. are not possible/rejected by Shepard, c. is still better than refusal ending (this special cycle - and not the next one - is allowed reset tech and "take it's chances")
I got the impression that the Reapers were above mindless drones. In fairness however, the Catalyst is a dumb VI bound heavily by its programming, despite its claim to be more than an AI.
I hope you mean the one I quoted, or that statement makes no sense. I'm not the one strawmanning.
Oh yes he meant him.
Oh yes he meant him.
Oh, good. Does he have a reputation or something?
Yeah, you could say that. You may read some previous pages if you are interested but I'd rather not talk about that.
Wow. I thought I was being a little too dick-ish and annoying in this topic, but you're saying he's that much worse? Well, I'm glad I'm at least not viewed as the worst person in here.Yeah, you could say that. You may read some previous pages if you are interested but I'd rather not talk about that.
Wow. I thought I was being a little too dick-ish and annoying in this topic, but you're saying he's that much worse? Well, I'm glad I'm at least not viewed as the worst person in here.
No, don't jump to that conclusion. I wouldn't say he's much worse. Noone here is actually bad. Just sometimes his analogies are rather ridiculous or disturbing.
It's as if you haven't read single freaking thing I've typed. I've said a HELL of a lot more than that in support of my idea. An entire paragraph worth. But I guess pretending that is my entire argument makes it easier to make a strawman out of it, huh?
No I've read but nothing lines up with what you said. They key point to your hole argument is based on that one line kick starting everything.
To hack or control any program you need to understand how that program works. Which would mean the various races or at least one race would need to understand fundamentally how the Catalyst works. That is why people like me can't just hack the pentagon when ever I please. Because I don't understand how their security systems work.
I make no straw man you make your own straw man. An entire galaxy that already has experience with Reaper tech some how doesn't understand a giant Reaper tech controlling item they are creating? After they have already literally created weapons using Reaper tech to be used against the Reapers. And claiming something can't dock to something else without it gaining complete control over it is again bullshit. Ignoring even the most fundamental understanding of how anything computer related works.
If a ships docks with a refuel station the station does not gain full control of the ship nor does the ship gain full control of the station. If my phone docks with my laptop I do not gain fully control of the phone. If I could there would be a lot of programs I would delete off it. I would need a program that knows the specific about the operating system to allow me to do that.
And that isn't even bringing into account that the Catalyst rather then a smart phone which once programed can't alter it on their own is aware of changes. And much like EDI vs Collectors would be able to understand what is happening and respond to it. By your logic the moment Shepard and crew step foot in the Collector ship it should have been game over. Because the Collector General was attacking the Normandy's systems with programs to lock out EDI from their ship.
This added to the point every item you can find for the Crucible is all about power generation or maintenance. Nothing is found that is set up around building some sort of program capable of completely over riding the Catalyst's system controls.
It isn't' a straw man when your entire concept makes no sense and out right contradicts earlier established lore. IT theory makes more sense then your idea does.
I mentioned in another thread that I don't get why the thing as an attitude problem if ems is low enough. It sounds like a little crybaby that won't get any dessert unless it eats its veggies
Someone mentioned the thing says why are you here? I would add that it says wake up, if ems is above 2700, when Shepard is already awake
I got the impression that the Reapers were above mindless drones. In fairness however, the Catalyst is a dumb VI bound heavily by its programming, despite its claim to be more than an AI.
We need to concile (is this right term?) the catalyst statement "the reapers are mine. I control them" with the soverign statement "we are indipendent nations (or something like that)".
I think that a good "compromise" could be another catalyst statement "I embody the collective intelligence of the reapers".
Collective intelligence implies an "higher" coordinator/purpose-giver "entity", but also individual "indipendence" and pursuit of more limited tasks.
An individual reapers (an indipendent nation) can continue destroying ships, firing to the crucibile, killing and harvesting, fullfilling his original and only purpose, while at the same time the collective intellingence understand the greater picture, and realize the necessity of a new solution.
But I understand that "an AI (concept that we can barely grasp) embodying the collective intelligence (concept that we can barely grasp) of a fleet of organic-synthetic-super-killer-machine ((concept that we can barely grasp) trying to prevent apocalyptic tech singularity (concept that we can barely grasp) through harvesting (concept that we can barely grasp) or alternately through RGB space magic (concept that we can barely grasp)" is something so vague, with so few related in-game info (and given at the very last), that bad writing is undeniable.
The ending overall becomes something that we can barely grasp 
barely, though
True, but its tone of voice most certainly does not at all fit the latter. You don't ask that when you're curious, that's the tone you use when a someone you hate suddenly shows up unexpectedly. It's not a nice way of asking, it's rather hostile and accusatory.
The tone seems to me pretty neutral. There is no clear curiosity nor hostility in it. You can interpret it both ways, imo 
Gee I don't know maybe because it requires me to sacrifice an entire sentient race and EDI without even giving them the decency of a heads up? I don't like any of the options, but I'll take synthesis over the rest.
The reapers didn't give a heads up to the millions of human children they killed within 2 seconds of entering earth... Their beam hits with a force of an atomic bomb.
I agree that Catalyst being hacked is probably the halfway reasonable answer to its behavior. OTOH I have to admit, that "yeah the Crucible totally hacked it, yay" is out of the blue and raises a lot of questions which can only be explained by it´s the magic dingalinglong, he Crucible. It can do everything, perhaps even power the Ark to reach Andromeda, if that´s really the Crucible in the trailer. You can slap in everything and it works even better. Miles of new wiring. Sure. A Reaper detector, uh well might be useful, a Reaper brain or heart at the last minute. Yeah, put it in.
Also there isn´t really a hint. The stuff the Catalyst says, sounds fishy, but well people jumped on hallucination, indoctrination or dunno, Shep is asleep and it´s just a bad dream.
We have a lot of theories floating around here which can be debunked or argued for. In the end we have Shepard talked to someone, who might be a VI, AI, ASI, a dumb moron or the Crucible´s handpuppet about something which mght or might not be true and tells you his doctrine is not true aymore because of reasons, unless his buddies shot it a lot, then it just waves you on, because well reasons. Otherwise you are allowed to pick one of three gates to proceed and only these are there for some reason.
Or in short, there is nothing, you can put in anything.
We need to concile (is this right term?) the catalyst statement "the reapers are mine. I control them" with the soverign statement "we are indipendent nations (or something like that)".
I think that a good "compromise" could be another catalyst statement "I embody the collective intelligence of the reapers".
Collective intelligence implies an "higher" coordinator/purpose-giver "entity", but also individual "indipendence" and pursuit of more limited tasks.
An individual reapers (an indipendent nation) can continue destroying ships, firing to the crucibile, killing and harvesting, fullfilling his original and only purpose, while at the same time the collective intellingence understand the greater picture, and realize the necessity of a new solution.
But I understand that "an AI (concept that we can barely grasp) embodying the collective intelligence (concept that we can barely grasp) of a fleet of organic-synthetic-super-killer-machine ((concept that we can barely grasp) trying to prevent apocalyptic tech singularity (concept that we can barely grasp) through harvesting (concept that we can barely grasp) or alternately through RGB space magic (concept that we can barely grasp)" is something so vague, with so few related in-game info (and given at the very last), that bad writing is undeniable.
The ending overall becomes something that we can barely grasp
barely, though
The word is "reconcile" and no, we don't. That was the author's job.
The reapers didn't give a heads up to the millions of human children they killed within 2 seconds of entering earth... Their beam hits with a force of an atomic bomb.
So we're supposed to be the Reapers now? My question is; what value would the head's up be?
The word is "reconcile" and no, we don't. That was the author's job.
debatable
debatable
Well, the author doesn't have to, if they don't care about their story making no sense
Well, the author doesn't have to, if they don't care about their story making no sense
Again debatable because it depends on the audience and story they are trying to tell
The goobers would be incapable of following a story if they set it up to require thought about it. So everything must be 100% spelt out or them or they would miss it. If you are creating a story were your target audience isn't drooling lowest common denominator who needs every single event paraded out in front of them with fire works and a jumbo tron for them to understand what happens. You can create a story and set it up so people have to think about it while still having it make sense.
Well, the author doesn't have to, if they don't care about their story making no sense
the story doesn't necessarly "make no sense".
It can have multiple interpretation, some sensible, other not, depending of how you "fill" the holes, the unanswered/dubius issues
1.does the catalyst fully and directly control the citadel (as spece station and as mass relay)?
A) yes
b. no
2. does the catalyst fully and directly control the reapers?
A) yes
b. no
3. What the catalyst is telling you about the synthetics being a threat for all organic life is
A) the ontological truth
b. what he believes being the truth
C) a lie
D) what the crucible is forcing him to tell you
E) ....
The catalyst is helping you (instead of waiting/commanding the reapers to blast the crucible) because
A) his solution won't work anymore (as proved by refusal ending)
b. because he's forced to do so by the crucible
C) you're indocrinated, that's a meta-intellectual boss fight, pick destroy!
D) ----
You can combine the various option is ways that makes sense (1B - 2B - 3B - 4A; or 1A - 2A - 3D -4B); and other ways that doesn't make any sense, even if, taken one by one, the option can be more likely than other.
Not yet anyway.That would be true if the Geth were nothing more then a voice activated search program. But I have yet to see Siri plan, construct and man a warship. Never seen Siri create a program that would corrupt all the Cortana's into Apple I phone Siries. Never seen Siri lead a revolution adapting to military tactics and over coming them. Causing them to nearly wipe out humans from the face of the Earth.
Not yet anyway.
Until Siri evolves into Skynet and attempts to exterminate us all.
If it is an apple based product as soon as they release a new war ship all previous ones would be rendered inoperable. Because that is how Apple works. So they really wouldn't be a threat.
The author still has to lead the audience to the conclusion. Even if it's not being made blatantly obvious, there must be a logical trail between points. Even "surprise" or "twist" endings should be visible in retrospect, showing how the story really did lead up to that point even though it wasn't obvious at the time. Once again, Mass Effect didn't do that.
The author still has to lead the audience to the conclusion. Even if it's not being made blatantly obvious, there must be a logical trail between points. Even "surprise" or "twist" endings should be visible in retrospect, showing how the story really did lead up to that point even though it wasn't obvious at the time. Once again, Mass Effect didn't do that.
I saw it.
Even disregarding DLC Thessia makes it very clear.
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