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[andy6915]

Where in ME1 is that stated?

 

Counter-indications:

a) In ME1, the relay network is described as consisting of primary (fixed relays) and secondary relays that realign frequently => Relays can be aligned after being built.

b ) In ME1, they can align the Mu Relay to the Refuge system relay (where Ilos is) despite the fact that it moved after being hit by the super nova shockwave => Relays can be aligned after being moved

c) In ME3, they can just move something as big as the Citadel (granted, that is an ME3 one and by that time, things got really weird anyway but in ME1, there was no reason why one (especially reapers) couldn't tow a relay either) => It is possible to tow something as big (or bigger) as a relay.

 

==> You could build the entire network in the same manner that I described earlier.

 

How does that disprove my point? Okay, let me get this straight. You think the relays work like a bridge, something you can just build as you go? You honestly think that you can make a relay, launch off without a destination, magically stop without any outside force or object pushing against them (Newton's law), and then build another relay? Either that or you think you can make two relays and fire one of them through the other and the other one somehow stop exactly where you wanted it to without some kind of opposing force to stop it? You... Actually... Think this, either idea, is how it works?

 

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear... I guess you don't realize that without another relay to act as an end point, the mass relay will basically fire you so far that you'll end up at the edge of the entire universe within an hour. You won't stop, you don't have mass and you're going faster than light, which means there's nothing that can possibly be your opposing force to stop you. You'll just fly for eternity, that kind of velocity and lack of mass can't just be reversed. Even in ME lore, ships spend half the entire FTL transit time flying backwards so they can actually stop at their destination. They need to counteract their own acceleration from the first half of the trip by accelerating in the opposite direction for the second half. And yet here you are thinking you can somehow just stop on a dime after a mass relay fires you and you don't have an exit point in the form of a mass relay on the other side.

 

No. Like I said earlier. You need to manually build the relay where you want it to be. Period. If you want to use a mass relay to get somewhere, you need a relay to fire you and a relay to catch you. To use the bridge metaphor, you need to build the bridge from both sides and meet them in the middle. You can't just start on one end and finish on the other. Which means they had to physically fly all over the galaxy and even into dark space to build mass relays, they had to manually reach a destination before they could build anything there. Like comm boeys, you can't send an extranet signal to a system without a comm boeys to catch said signal. First you have to reach a new system, THEN you can build a comm boey to connect to one you built elsewhere in an established system.

 

If I knew I'd had to explain all this...

[andy6915]

No, because even for Reapers, Relays make travel faster. As Kenson says, without the Alpha Relay, it will take them months or years to reach another Relay. The Relay Network is that important to travel. Go read the codex entry on Mass Relays.

 

Yes... MONTHS OR YEARS TO REACH THE FIRST RELAY OF OUR GALAXY, not months or years to fly from the Alpha Relay to the next relay. She meant they'd have to fly until they reached the first relay of our galaxy at its edge, not that they'd be flying from the edge of our galaxy to another relay within it. You honestly, truly, thought that the Reapers had been flying through the Milky Way for an entire 8 months before ME3? That they just reached the Alpha Relay system manually, then spent the better part of a year flying in our galaxy? Without a single person, a single sensor, picking up the biggest fleet in the galaxy just cruising along without anyone being the wiser? That a fleet bigger than the Migrant fleet with ships bigger than our dreadnaughts could just fly through our galaxy for that entire time without a single hint or clue that they're doing it, that they had technically already reached us almost a year before ME3 but just took that long making their presence known?? So you actually think the entire time between ME2 and ME3 was them actively traveling through our galaxy, not them flying towards our galaxy? Good job, you've managed to contradict the codex on top of making no sense.

[Ieldra]

Yes... MONTHS OR YEARS TO REACH THE FIRST RELAY OF OUR GALAXY, not months or years to fly from the Alpha Relay to the next relay. She meant they'd have to fly until they reached the first relay of our galaxy at its edge, not that they'd be flying from the edge of our galaxy to another relay within it. You honestly, truly, thought that the Reapers had been flying through the Milky Way for an entire 8 months before ME3? That they just reached the Alpha Relay system manually, then spent the better part of a year flying in our galaxy? Without a single person, a single sensor, picking up the biggest fleet in the galaxy just cruising along without anyone being the wiser? That a fleet bigger than the Migrant fleet with ships bigger than our dreadnaughts could just fly through our galaxy for that entire time without a single hint or clue that they're doing it, that they had technically already reached us almost a year before ME3 but just took that long making their presence known?? So you actually think the entire time between ME2 and ME3 was them actively traveling through our galaxy, not them flying towards our galaxy? Good job, you've managed to contradict the codex on top of making no sense.

*shakes head*.

 

Space is big. Billions of stars remain invisible to our most advanced detection methods. Also, in the MEU there aren't any FTL sensors, so the Reaper fleet would have no problem whatsoever with remaining undetected. All they need to do is keep a few parsecs away from inhabited systems, and their emissions would take years to reach a place where they could be detected. In fact, just using the random route would make detection highly unlikely, given the sparsity of inhabited systems.

 

Really, space is big. Unimaginably big. That ME contracts space and time so much that it masks that fact completely is one of its worldbuilding flaws IMO.

[MrFob]

How does that disprove my point? Okay, let me get this straight. You think the relays work like a bridge, something you can just build as you go? You honestly think that you can make a relay, launch off without a destination, magically stop without any outside force or object pushing against them (Newton's law), and then build another relay? Either that or you think you can make two relays and fire one of them through the other and the other one somehow stop exactly where you wanted it to without some kind of opposing force to stop it? You... Actually... Think this, either idea, is how it works?

Uh ... no, that's not at all what I wrote about.

[Natureguy85]

How does that disprove my point? Okay, let me get this straight. You think the relays work like a bridge, something you can just build as you go? You honestly think that you can make a relay, launch off without a destination, magically stop without any outside force or object pushing against them (Newton's law), and then build another relay? Either that or you think you can make two relays and fire one of them through the other and the other one somehow stop exactly where you wanted it to without some kind of opposing force to stop it? You... Actually... Think this, either idea, is how it works?

 

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear...  I guess you don't realize that without another relay to act as an end point, the mass relay will basically fire you so far that you'll end up at the edge of the entire universe within an hour. You won't stop, you don't have mass and you're going faster than light, which means there's nothing that can possibly be your opposing force to stop you. You'll just fly for eternity, that kind of velocity and lack of mass can't just be reversed. Even in ME lore, ships spend half the entire FTL transit time flying backwards so they can actually stop at their destination. They need to counteract their own acceleration from the first half of the trip by accelerating in the opposite direction for the second half. And yet here you are thinking you can somehow just stop on a dime after a mass relay fires you and you don't have an exit point in the form of a mass relay on the other side.

 

No. Like I said earlier. You need to manually build the relay where you want it to be. Period. If you want to use a mass relay to get somewhere, you need a relay to fire you and a relay to catch you. To use the bridge metaphor, you need to build the bridge from both sides and meet them in the middle. You can't just start on one end and finish on the other. Which means they had to physically fly all over the galaxy and even into dark space to build mass relays, they had to manually reach a destination before they could build anything there. Like comm boeys, you can't send an extranet signal to a system without a comm boeys to catch said signal. First you have to reach a new system, THEN you can build a comm boey to connect to one you built elsewhere in an established system.

 

If I knew I'd had to explain all this...

 

I still can't tell if you're purposely trolling or if you can't read. It's clear from this and your posts in the other thread that you post here, not to engage in discussion, but to have other people suck you off and tell you how smart you are. Now you're making up stuff to argue against.

 

FOB said they'd build a Relay and move it where they needed it to go. He said "tow" it. You do know what it means to tow something, right? He said nothing about sending it through a Relay with no destination Relay, something that isn't even shown or mentioned to be possible, regardless of the impracticality, since the Relays create massless corridors which have entry and exit points. While it happened after ME2 and Arrival, the Citadel gets moved. Why not regular Relays?

 

And if the Reapers had to go out to Dark Space to build the Relay that links to the Citadel, why is it so ridiculous to you that they could fly back in to the Alpha Relay?

 

 

 

 

 

Yes... MONTHS OR YEARS TO REACH THE FIRST RELAY OF OUR GALAXY, not months or years to fly from the Alpha Relay to the next relay. She meant they'd have to fly until they reached the first relay of our galaxy at its edge, not that they'd be flying from the edge of our galaxy to another relay within it. You honestly, truly, thought that the Reapers had been flying through the Milky Way for an entire 8 months before ME3? That they just reached the Alpha Relay system manually, then spent the better part of a year flying in our galaxy? Without a single person, a single sensor, picking up the biggest fleet in the galaxy just cruising along without anyone being the wiser? That a fleet bigger than the Migrant fleet with ships bigger than our dreadnaughts could just fly through our galaxy for that entire time without a single hint or clue that they're doing it, that they had technically already reached us almost a year before ME3 but just took that long making their presence known?? So you actually think the entire time between ME2 and ME3 was them actively traveling through our galaxy, not them flying towards our galaxy? Good job, you've managed to contradict the codex on top of making no sense.

 

Wouldn't it take longer from Dark Space? She doesn't know exactly where they are. But she would know how far it is from the Alpha Relay to the closest Relays.

You apparently don't know, but space is huge and the galaxy is still mostly empty space. If they aren't limited by discharge requirements and leaving FTL, yeah, they could easily move around without being detected. In fact, Mass Effect 3 starts with the Reapers hitting the moon without Earth being aware that they were even approaching. Seconds later they land on Earth. The Bahak system was totally wiped out, so there is nothing there to detect them. Also recall that they approach Batarian space and the Batarian hegemony has been Indoctrinated after playing around with the Leviathan of Dis.

 

Where is the contradiction with the Codex? It must be the one entry you've actually read. Also, out of curiosity, where did they actually enter the Galaxy then, once the Alpha Relay was destroyed? Why can't we see the sister Relay to the Alpha Relay in the shot at the end of ME2?

[Natureguy85]

*shakes head*.

 

Space is big. Billions of stars remain invisible to our most advanced detection methods. Also, in the MEU there aren't any FTL sensors, so the Reaper fleet would have no problem whatsoever with remaining undetected. All they need to do is keep a few parsecs away from inhabited systems, and their emissions would take years to reach a place where they could be detected. In fact, just using the random route would make detection highly unlikely, given the sparsity of inhabited systems.

 

Really, space is big. Unimaginably big. That ME contracts space and time so much that it masks that fact completely is one of its worldbuilding flaws IMO.

 

I actually don't have a problem with this as the discharge requirements forces ships to stick around the areas populated with celestial objects. That's why I like that we get one mission, Legion's loyalty mission, on a space station out in the middle of nowhere.

[BloodyMares]

Andy, ditch the attitude, it doesn't help you to prove your point. Neither one is trolling, just a misunderstanding and pointless hostility. At this point I'm not sure who is right or wrong.

At my initial playthrough I thought the same thing, that Reapers would reach the Alpha pair and that destroying the relay would prevent them from zooming into the Milky Way.

But now another intepretation that Alpha Relay would just give them the opportunity to roam the galaxy and invade momentarily kinda makes sense as well.

But there I have these questions. How fast are the Reapers and where is the Dark Space located? If the Reapers can literally FTL into Alpha Relay (within Milky Way galaxy) in 2 hours from the Dark Space then why is that it takes them 8 months to reach the next relay? Wouldn't they be able to reach the next relay in 10 minutes or something like that? Unless the Dark Space is located right in the corner of Milky Way which could be a thing as well.

So I think either theory is possible, it's just the matter of distance and speed. Andy is right if the Dark Space is much further away from Milky Way than Alpha Relay is from a neighbour relay. And others are right if Dark Space is really close to Alpha Relay.

That's my understanding of the situation so I'm confused.

[andy6915]

Andy, ditch the attitude, it doesn't help you to prove your point. Neither one is trolling, just a misunderstanding and pointless hostility. At this point I'm not sure who is right or wrong.

This is a battlefield of ideas, and I'm in a war mindset for this battle. That's why I'm hostile. If you really think this is being reciprocal, don't just call me and only me out if you think others are being just as bad. So why tell only me to ditch it?

 

At my initial playthrough I thought the same thing, that Reapers would reach the Alpha pair and that destroying the relay would prevent them from zooming into the Milky Way.

But now another intepretation that Alpha Relay would just give them the opportunity to roam the galaxy and invade momentarily kinda makes sense as well.

Look, I acknowledge that it's definitely one way to look at it. I simply think... It's a stupid way to look at it. So I argue it, I fight it. Others think my way of looking at it, and they fight me right back. Isn't this what it's all about?

 

But there I have these questions. How fast are the Reapers and where is the Dark Space located? If the Reapers can literally FTL into Alpha Relay (within Milky Way galaxy) in 2 hours from the Dark Space then why is that it takes them 8 months to reach the next relay? Wouldn't they be able to reach the next relay in 10 minutes or something like that? Unless the Dark Space is located right in the corner of Milky Way which could be a thing as well.

Well, their speed was stated in the codex I quoted. I mean, you got to do some math though. But still, 3 LY in 24 hours. I'm sure someone smarter than me at math (not difficult, I'm so bad at math that a typical middle schooler is probably better than me at at) could figure out exactly what speed that is. As for where they were, who knows. The codex doesn't say how they estimate where they were in dark space, likely Bioware just doing a "shrug of god".

Also, unless I'm misreading, you just brought up another good point against Natureguy that I didn't think of. If you did and I read it right, nice job.

 

So I think either theory is possible, it's just the matter of distance and speed. Andy is right if the Dark Space is much further away from Milky Way than Alpha Relay is from a neighbour relay. And others are right if Dark Space is really close to Alpha Relay.

That's my understanding of the situation so I'm confused.

Dark space simply means the space between galaxies, so technically speaking you're in dark space the moment you leave the gravitational field of our outermost star. Dark space simply being the emptiness between galaxies makes dark space... Really big. Like I can't describe how big, the space between galaxies in so much bigger than the galaxies themselves that it's crazy. They could have been hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands of LY away from the galactic edge, we have no idea. I do know that dark space has literally trillions and trillions of light years of space in it, and the closest we are to the next nearest spiral galaxy is 2.5 million LY away (Andromeda, point of fact). So that's literally millions of LY worth of space right there that they could have been hiding. I think they were probably pretty close, since 30 LY per 24 hours and only taking roughly 3 years (assuming they began traveling right as ME1 ended) would mean that had to have been close to the galaxy. Well, close in galactic terms. In terms of space, a couple thousand light years is spitting distance (not a literal expression).

[BloodyMares]

This is a battlefield of ideas, and I'm in a war mindset for this battle. That's why I'm hostile. If you really think this is being reciprocal, don't just call me and only me out if you think others are being just as bad. So why tell only me to ditch it?

Look, I acknowledge that it's definitely one way to look at it. I simply think... It's a stupid way to look at it. So I argue it, I fight it. Others think my way of looking at it, and they fight me right back. Isn't this what it's all about?

It's a weird way to look at it. You could think of it as a battlefield but it's just counterproductive. You can't convice someone if you're hostile because in that regard being convinced = being defeated and nobody likes to feel defeated (obviously). That's why I advise to ditch the hostility because it gets in the way of understanding a point of view that is different. I called you out because Natureguy usually only gets hostile for serious reasons. He interpreted your first post as of condescending nature and probably took it as an insult and hence the hostility. As I said, a misunderstanding.

Instead of fighting others it would be more productive to just discuss it civilly, together, with a common purpose to find the truth. It's not about defeating opponents, it's about discussing things so you could see things from other perspectives. If the debate only ruins the mood of everyone participating then it's completely pointless for both parties.

[Reorte]

The only way that the Alpha Relay is significant is if it makes things for the Reapers a lot easier. If it just lets them get around the galaxy a bit faster then there's nothing particularly unique about it.

 

The final scene of ME2 had the Reapers some way above the plane of the galaxy, if they can cover that distance in the time then switching to another relay  wouldn't change things much (in fact it would make far more sense to not pick on in particular until the last moment, if their approach to one can reveal their presence).

 

That ME3 had them turn up not that much later anyway is the problem.

[NerdWithBigStick]

On my first game, I chose Synthesize, primarily for two reasons: one, the way it is presented to the player makes it appear to be the best alternative, and I thought perhaps it would gain me the "best" ending, at the time; two, I couldn't bear to kill EDI, which just seemed pretty terrible, to me after all the help she provided during the game. 

 

On subsequent games, though, I have always chosen Destroy, simply because it's the only one that truly makes sense given your entire mission for 3 games has been to completely wipe out the Reapers, and also, because, of course ... Shep.

 

 

[Natureguy85]

Andy, ditch the attitude, it doesn't help you to prove your point. Neither one is trolling, just a misunderstanding and pointless hostility. At this point I'm not sure who is right or wrong.

At my initial playthrough I thought the same thing, that Reapers would reach the Alpha pair and that destroying the relay would prevent them from zooming into the Milky Way.

But now another intepretation that Alpha Relay would just give them the opportunity to roam the galaxy and invade momentarily kinda makes sense as well.

But there I have these questions. How fast are the Reapers and where is the Dark Space located? If the Reapers can literally FTL into Alpha Relay (within Milky Way galaxy) in 2 hours from the Dark Space then why is that it takes them 8 months to reach the next relay? Wouldn't they be able to reach the next relay in 10 minutes or something like that? Unless the Dark Space is located right in the corner of Milky Way which could be a thing as well.

So I think either theory is possible, it's just the matter of distance and speed. Andy is right if the Dark Space is much further away from Milky Way than Alpha Relay is from a neighbour relay. And others are right if Dark Space is really close to Alpha Relay.

That's my understanding of the situation so I'm confused.

 

Mass Effect has never been good with the passage of time, even in ME1 where details mattered. It takes about 15 hours to go from Eden Prime to the Citadel, yet Dr. Michelle says Tali came to her "a few days ago." Oops! That's probably writers not communicating. Arrival was DLC released after ME2. I really don't think the writers thought much about the things we're discussing.

 

 

 

This is a battlefield of ideas, and I'm in a war mindset for this battle. That's why I'm hostile.
 

 

The words of someone not confident enough that their ideas will stand on their own merits. I'd take a guess at your political leanings but I'd probably get a warning point from some trigger happy mod.

 

 

 

 

It's a weird way to look at it. You could think of it as a battlefield but it's just counterproductive. You can't convice someone if you're hostile because in that regard being convinced = being defeated and nobody likes to feel defeated (obviously). That's why I advise to ditch the hostility because it gets in the way of understanding a point of view that is different. I called you out because Natureguy usually only gets hostile for serious reasons. He interpreted your first post as of condescending nature and probably took it as an insult and hence the hostility. As I said, a misunderstanding.

Instead of fighting others it would be more productive to just discuss it civilly, together, with a common purpose to find the truth. It's not about defeating opponents, it's about discussing things so you could see things from other perspectives. If the debate only ruins the mood of everyone participating then it's completely pointless for both parties.

 

Because he isn't interested in a discussion or debate or convincing anyone. He just wants to yell and scream until everyone tells him he's right and a genius. He's done this in other threads. I challenged a post of his and he immediately threw a temper tantrum.

 

 

 

 

The only way that the Alpha Relay is significant is if it makes things for the Reapers a lot easier. If it just lets them get around the galaxy a bit faster then there's nothing particularly unique about it.

 

The final scene of ME2 had the Reapers some way above the plane of the galaxy, if they can cover that distance in the time then switching to another relay  wouldn't change things much (in fact it would make far more sense to not pick on in particular until the last moment, if their approach to one can reveal their presence).

 

That ME3 had them turn up not that much later anyway is the problem.

 

The Reapers have to start somewhere. There must be a "first" Relay they reach. I assumed it was just the closes Relay to where they were. We didn't know at the time that the Reapers wouldn't take the Citadel for no story reason. (The actual reason is so we can still visit the Citadel.) The wiki page, which is not the Codex, says the Alpha Relay has the ability to link to multiple Mass Relays outside the normal range of a secondary Relay. This would allow the Reapers to spread out quickly.

 

But you're exactly right that their speedy appearance for ME3, along with no additional preparation during that additional time, undermined the entire DLC. Yeah, I know Liara found the Crucible then but it's all off screen and silly.

[andy6915]

The words of someone not confident enough that their ideas will stand on their own merits. I'd take a guess at your political leanings but I'd probably get a warning point from some trigger happy mod.

Anti feminist and anti SJW? Because that's what I am. It is, in fact, what I suspect is why this particular moderator hates me and mods me over just about anything. I once got into a big anti feminist discussion on here where I strongly argued the feminist ideology, and that mod deleted basically every post I made but NOT my opponents. Ever since, it's always them that is the moderator that modded me. Every. Single. Time. No proof, but theory fits evidence (as Mordin once said).

And no, I have total confidence in my arguments. Someone lacking confidence wouldn't have stayed in the ring this long, someone without confidence would be meek, or stand behind others and let them do the arguing for them, or just quietly leave. I've done none of that. I'm geared for war and I have no doubt or hesitation about arguing you, and every other person in this topic at the same time if needed. I already have argued more than just you. How me being willing to take on basically the entire topic by myself and risk getting modded by a trigger happy moderator shows a lack of confidence, I have no idea.
 

Because he isn't interested in a discussion or debate or convincing anyone. He just wants to yell and scream until everyone tells him he's right and a genius. He's done this in other threads. I challenged a post of his and he immediately threw a temper tantrum.

No, I am trying to convince you. You're just more interested in not making sense and trying to psychoanalyze me like you are right here than you are in actually debating your side. You're the one lacking confidence in what you say, since you're more interested in doing this than arguing my actual points. You say temper tantrum, I say I argued with passion and confidence (and exasperation when you started making no sense). I guess to you, arguing confidently means throwing a temper tantrum? That says more about you than me.
 

The Reapers have to start somewhere. There must be a "first" Relay they reach. I assumed it was just the closes Relay to where they were. We didn't know at the time that the Reapers wouldn't take the Citadel for no story reason. (The actual reason is so we can still visit the Citadel.) The wiki page, which is not the Codex, says the Alpha Relay has the ability to link to multiple Mass Relays outside the normal range of a secondary Relay. This would allow the Reapers to spread out quickly.

So you really do think they'd just pass through Batarian space without stopping and harvesting anything? That would be extremely out of character for them, based on how they act in ME3.
 

But you're exactly right that their speedy appearance for ME3, along with no additional preparation during that additional time, undermined the entire DLC. Yeah, I know Liara found the Crucible then but it's all off screen and silly.

How long do you think it should have taken, 2 more years? I think Bioware wanted the invasion rushed, because giving the galaxy less time to prepare also made the invasion more critical than it would have been. Of course, it's up to you whether you like that approach or not.

[Natureguy85]

And no, I have total confidence in my arguments. Someone lacking confidence wouldn't have stayed in the ring this long, someone without confidence would be meek, or stand behind others and let them do the arguing for them, or just quietly leave. I've done none of that. I'm geared for war and I have no doubt or hesitation about arguing you, and every other person in this topic at the same time if needed. I already have argued more than just you. How me being willing to take on basically the entire topic by myself and risk getting modded by a trigger happy moderator shows a lack of confidence, I have no idea.

 

Not necessarily. Arrogance and shouting are often covers for weakness. "Staying in the ring" may just be a need to argue, and that's supported by your hostility at the slightest challenge and references to conversation and debate as "war".

 

 

No, I am trying to convince you. You're just more interested in not making sense and trying to psychoanalyze me like you are right here than you are in actually debating your side. You're the one lacking confidence in what you say, since you're more interested in doing this than arguing my actual points. You say temper tantrum, I say I argued with passion and confidence (and exasperation when you started making no sense). I guess to you, arguing confidently means throwing a temper tantrum? That says more about you than me.

 

This was just mindless rambling, saying "nuh uh" and a Tommy Boy retort.

 

 

My interpretation was perfectly valid when looking only at Arrival and is only damaged by a cutscene in the main game which was completed before the DLC was released and that scene only harms my interpretation if the DLC is played before the end of the campaign! You had to set up strawmen out of what FOB and I said in order to act smart and say we were making no sense. Plenty of others have argued with confidence without being a childish turd, yet this escapes you.

 

And all of our discussion is ignoring the fact that this was all written by people who do no have attention to detail. They just wrote whatever they thought was cool without regard for continuity.

 

So you really do think they'd just pass through Batarian space without stopping and harvesting anything? That would be extremely out of character for them, based on how they act in ME3.

 

Who said they didn't harvest anything?  And don't forget that as soon as Earth is hit, they already have Cannibals, which are made from Batarians and humans.

 

 

 

 

How long do you think it should have taken, 2 more years? I think Bioware wanted the invasion rushed, because giving the galaxy less time to prepare also made the invasion more critical than it would have been. Of course, it's up to you whether you like that approach or not.

 

It should have taken a very long time, from what the Codex told us. Maybe even too long to have Shepard stay the Protagonist. However, this assumes the Reapers had to invade. After talking to Vigil, I thought the next game would involve investigating the Citadel and eventually using the Relay to attack the Reapers in Dark Space. The idea of an opposing force rising up, wanting to Control the Reapers, as Cerberus was in ME3, would have still worked very well.

 

The speed of the invasion made us question why Sovereign bothered in ME1. The Galaxy ended up strong for destroying Sovereign than it would have been if they'd just flown in and surprised everyone. It was also another example of how pointless ME2 was, as if we needed any more.

[andy6915]

Not necessarily. Arrogance and shouting are often covers for weakness. "Staying in the ring" may just be a need to argue, and that's supported by your hostility at the slightest challenge and references to conversation and debate as "war".

Because that's how the open marketplace of ideas is. You're not acting any different, you've been acting like this is a war too. Neither of us are being saints here.
 

This was just mindless rambling, saying "nuh uh" and a Tommy Boy retort.

*ahem* Like I said, you're not being any better here.
 

My interpretation was perfectly valid when looking only at Arrival and is only damaged by a cutscene in the main game which was completed before the DLC was released and that scene only harms my interpretation if the DLC is played before the end of the campaign! You had to set up strawmen out of what FOB and I said in order to act smart and say we were making no sense. Plenty of others have argued with confidence without being a childish turd, yet this escapes you.

So you admit there is something that damages your own interpretation, but nothing that helps it. And your thought is... That proves you right? That does not follow, that is not logical. No, see, this is why I say you make no sense.
 

And all of our discussion is ignoring the fact that this was all written by people who do no have attention to detail. They just wrote whatever they thought was cool without regard for continuity.

More Bioware bashing? It's true that they're not stellar, but once again you're using "Bioware sucks" as an argument. If you recall, a few weeks or so back, this is what initially made me hostile to you. I was trying to argue things from an in-canon perspective, and your response when you couldn't think of a good counter was to just say Bioware sucks at writing and so discussing from an in-canon point of view is useless. That's the thing that made me dislike you right from the get-go, and that dislike is why I'm not even trying to be nice now. Notice how I'm being nicer to others, you're the only one getting my real ire. There is a good reason for that, and it's because you gave me a very bad first impression. An impression that you really haven't done anything to change my mind on, more and more my first impression is looking like it will be my permanent one of you. Of course, you probably think the exact same thing about me.
 

Who said they didn't harvest anything?  And don't forget that as soon as Earth is hit, they already have Cannibals, which are made from Batarians and humans.

Who said? Balak just said it. Proof enough? He said that indoctrinated Batarians brought down their own defenses when the Reapers showed up, just a week or so before Earth was hit. It made the invasion easier. ME3 makes it clear that the Batarian section of the galaxy got brought down just before Earth, not several months when they were moving through the galaxy like you suppose. No where in anything he said does he say the Batarians got raked over months ago, he talks like it was recent. BECAUSE IT WAS.
 

It should have taken a very long time, from what the Codex told us. Maybe even too long to have Shepard stay the Protagonist. However, this assumes the Reapers had to invade. After talking to Vigil, I thought the next game would involve investigating the Citadel and eventually using the Relay to attack the Reapers in Dark Space. The idea of an opposing force rising up, wanting to Control the Reapers, as Cerberus was in ME3, would have still worked very well.

Why? We have no idea how far they were out into dark space. It could have taken decades or centuries, or it could have taken mere months. I suppose it would have been interesting for it to take decades or centuries, it would have allowed the Mass Effect team to do a Dragon Age and have a different protagonist for each game, with each game being decades or centuries apart. But that isn't the direction they went. Even so, I hardly see that as a failure of story telling. Well, that aspect of the story. Even I can't deny that Bioware's writing does leave something to be desired. Well, the Mass Effect team. I've always thought the Dragon Age team had far better writers, DA doesn't contradict itself or wildly change story direction nearly as much as ME (probably because there isn't much story direction, it's all just stories that take place in Thedas rather than some big interconnected story like ME).
 

The speed of the invasion made us question why Sovereign bothered in ME1. The Galaxy ended up strong for destroying Sovereign than it would have been if they'd just flown in and surprised everyone. It was also another example of how pointless ME2 was, as if we needed any more.

He bothered because it still would have made things easier. Cutting off the entire relay network and then just fighting a bunch of disconnected worlds is much easier than how they did things in ME3.

And yeah, ME2 is filler. Good filler, but filler. Feels more like ME 1.5 than ME2.

[Natureguy85]

Because that's how the open marketplace of ideas is. You're not acting any different, you've been acting like this is a war too. Neither of us are being saints here.

 

No, I just called you out on being a dick for no reason.

 

 

*ahem* Like I said, you're not being any better here.

 

Because you have nothing else to say. This is just another

 

 

 

 

So you admit there is something that damages your own interpretation, but nothing that helps it. And your thought is... That proves you right? That does not follow, that is not logical. No, see, this is why I say you make no sense.

 

No, I said my interpretation was based on the DLC and it was. Yes, it was damaged by a cutscene outside of the DLC under a specific circumstance but not another. The problem isn't that you said I was wrong, but that you were an ass for no reason. Even now you're arguing against a strawman so you can feel smart.

 

The funny thing is that you and everyone else can go read all our posts, which you even quote, and yet you never argue against what someone actually said or summarize it properly. Again, I don't know if this is a reading comprehension problem or purposeful trolling.

 

 

 

More Bioware bashing? It's true that they're not stellar, but once again you're using "Bioware sucks" as an argument. If you recall, a few weeks or so back, this is what initially made me hostile to you. I was trying to argue things from an in-canon perspective, and your response when you couldn't think of a good counter was to just say Bioware sucks at writing and so discussing from an in-canon point of view is useless. That's the thing that made me dislike you right from the get-go, and that dislike is why I'm not even trying to be nice now. Notice how I'm being nicer to others, you're the only one getting my real ire. There is a good reason for that, and it's because you gave me a very bad first impression. An impression that you really haven't done anything to change my mind on, more and more my first impression is looking like it will be my permanent one of you. Of course, you probably think the exact same thing about me.

 

"Bioware sucks" is a conclusion based on the evidence of their writing, not an argument for anything. I do recall the post you're referring to and I've referenced your childish behavior back then in my recent posts. Again with the straw-man; I said "bad writing" was the simplest explanation, which it is. Like others, you fail to realize that I don't have to disprove every wild assertion or random guess somebody makes. It's up to the person claiming it to prove their claims if they are going to claim that their interpretation is the story. You were never trying to be nice. You've been a childish ****** the entire time. This is your answer to your question of why you alone were called out on your attitude.I called into question some of your claims and you took that very personally.

 

Out of curiosity, what is your in-universe, in-canon excuse for why the Reapers never took the Citadel until the very end? Shutting down the Relay network and dividing the galaxy was an important part of their harvest of the Protheans and, presumably, every other cycle.

 

 

 

 

 

Who said? Balak just said it. Proof enough? He said that indoctrinated Batarians brought down their own defenses when the Reapers showed up, just a week or so before Earth was hit. It made the invasion easier. ME3 makes it clear that the Batarian section of the galaxy got brought down just before Earth, not several months when they were moving through the galaxy like you suppose. No where in anything he said does he say the Batarians got raked over months ago, he talks like it was recent. BECAUSE IT WAS. 

 

Yes, because the Reapers entered in empty space formerly known as the Bahak system. As you and I both have said, space is mostly empty. The Reapers don't need to make stops. I assumed they would make a beeline for a Relay and take the Citadel first, as their prior Harvest plan would suggest. I've never heard a good story reason why they don't but they still hit multiple areas of the galaxy at once to overwhelm it.

 

 

 

Why? We have no idea how far they were out into dark space. It could have taken decades or centuries, or it could have taken mere months. I suppose it would have been interesting for it to take decades or centuries, it would have allowed the Mass Effect team to do a Dragon Age and have a different protagonist for each game, with each game being decades or centuries apart. But that isn't the direction they went. Even so, I hardly see that as a failure of story telling. Well, that aspect of the story. Even I can't deny that Bioware's writing does leave something to be desired. Well, the Mass Effect team. I've always thought the Dragon Age team had far better writers, DA doesn't contradict itself or wildly change story direction nearly as much as ME (probably because there isn't much story direction, it's all just stories that take place in Thedas rather than some big interconnected story like ME).

 

They don't just have to get to the galaxy, they also need to reach a Relay. It is true that we don't know where all the Relays are since many are inactive, but the codex says the Relays allow for jumps that would otherwise take decades or centuries. From a story perspective, a short trip makes Sovereign's actions pointless, as the Reapers could just fly in over a few months time. What's their hurry?

 

They could have found some way for the Reapers to get there faster. Maybe have the Collectors doing something related to getting the Reapers there faster, like new Relay tech that didn't need a receiver or making a wormhole or something that made sense.

 

Dragon Age Origins had great writing. The story was nothing that hadn't been done before but it was a great example of a classic adventure story and the characters were awesome. Dragon Age 2 gets some credit for trying something different, and does have a few bright spots, but was pretty poor in the writing department. I never played Inquisition but I've heard mixed reviews of the game and displeased comments about the story.

 

 

 

He bothered because it still would have made things easier. Cutting off the entire relay network and then just fighting a bunch of disconnected worlds is much easier than how they did things in ME3.

And yeah, ME2 is filler. Good filler, but filler. Feels more like ME 1.5 than ME2.

 

I agree, so why didn't they go take the Citadel and do that in ME3?

 

Well the plot of ME2 is total crap. The good stuff is all in the side characters.

[gothpunkboy89]

Suuure you have. Anyway, yes, while there are other ways to interpret it (they can't get back at all or they just can't get back in a timely fashion, or there are none awake besides Sovereign and they won't wake up until the Relay opens, etc) the implication is that they are pretty stuck out there. That doesn't prevent them from having gotten there in the first place. Maybe that's where they were built. Make up your own reason. It's not a big problem for the first game since answers can come later. Even as it stands it's at worst a minor plot hole/issue required to have this story in the first place. It's like how we know you couldn't build Rapture, especially at that time, but nobody cares. 

 The rest of this is irrelevant blather. Sure, maybe they didn't need to go so far out, but they did. They did such a good job of dividing the galaxy that the advanced species were able to form a giant, combined fleet. Mass Effect 2 and 3 did not do a good job of following from Mass Effect 1, so what eventually happened is not a good argument against what was said in Mass Effect 1 and is totally irrelevant when we are discussing where ME1 left things and what could have been done.

 

But there are no implications of anything. Trapped in dark space claim only works if you ignore every single big of game lore they have stated previously. Because even the most vaguest paying attention to game lore shows how stupid that statement is.

 

They didn't need to go that far out they were shown that far out for cinematic reasons. Because it looks a lot better but the distance you would need to travel to look like that you would need to be at least half way to the Andromeda Galaxy to get that view.  1.25 million light years.  You kind of miss the whole point of ME 3 is Shepard uniting the Galaxy against the Reapers. Hence why he develops alliances with and between Turians, Krogans, Asari, Salarians, Quarians and Geth. Or at least some variation of that. And that is part of the reason why the Catalyst offers up the choice. The variables have changed and Shepard is the catalyst of that change.

 

The characters don't care. A big deal could have been made about the Reapers only being servants, but it really doesn't matter. It doesn't help us win and it doesn't change our opposition to them. They breeze past it because the Crucible is more important. And more importantly to what you said, we're still totally in the dark about their reasons and motives. You say it explains why they are doing it, but that "explanation" is "they were told to." It changes nothing.

 

Of course they don't care. They would if this information was found out before the invasion. ME 1 or 2 they would have made a big deal. They are there and they are causing havok so stopping them is priority over finding out who is controlling them. You really think people trying to prevent or repel ISIS from their cities care who is controlling the troops? They don't care how it was formed or who is directing them. They are more concerned with the ISIS troops loading up heavy construction machinery with armor and explosives and driving them at their defensive lines ensuring they blow at least a portion of it away allowing other ISIS troops to enter the city that way.

 

You just said whoever is controlling the Reapers was a massive revelation and changed everything. Now you're agreeing with me that it doesn't matter, so make up your mind.

 Yeah, I don't care too much for Horizon. I think it's there to set up the Control ending and maybe even explain how TIM can control Shepard and Anderson, but it doesn't really do a good job of that.

 

I kind of face palmed when I read that. It shows you have not paid a single bit of attention to what I have been saying. Or you have and you are just ignoring it. I'm honestly not sure at this point. The revelation that the Reapers are simply tools being used by some higher power is a big revelation. How ever the fact is the Reapers are the current threat. Take the tools away from said higher being (Reapers) and suddenly that higher being is no longer a current threat and can be found and dealt with.

 

It is a sense of priority which you missed utterly and completely.

 

The Asari purposely covered up the beacon to horde advantages from it.

 Well it doesn't help that those proposing new laws don't understand the problem or know how to address it, which is why they constantly propose laws that won't do anything. However people don't pretend the attack didn't happen. Our officials do like to pretend radical Islamic terrorists really are something else, but that only applies to that group. However, realistic or not, it doesn't serve the story well.

 Yeah, I know what happened in ME2. Yet somehow the Turians were able to study Sovereign's bits long enough to get the Thanix cannon. They somehow have shielding in ME3 and Shepard implies it in Arrival. They could have had Shepard be on their more, but that wasn't the only option. They could have had the science team discover something important to beating the Reapers, making their sacrifice worthwhile. They could have not made the Reaper drop into the planet, leaving it for study even with the risk. That risk doesn't stop TIM from getting Reaper tech. They could have beaten Cerberus earlier, like EXALT from XCOM, and then gotten crucial data from TIM's research, possibly giving TIM a real redemption moment like Benezia. It might have earned him his "Saren moment" which he definitely didn't deserve as the story stands. Or they could have not made the Indoctrination effect continue, though it did serve that mission well. What did happen later is not an argument against what could have happened. 

 

Because they didn't know about the Reapers or the Crucible or the Catalyst. If they did they would have been searching the Citadel and reacted much differently then they did in the trilogy.

 

Well the actions of the Council likes up perfectly with that logic. They don't understand the problem or know how to address it and so they ignore it.  Oh realism always serves the story well.  ME 1 the Council was just angry at Shep for every possible reason. ME 2 and 3 they actually have some valid reasons for their actions even if you don't agree with them. If players are to stupid to make the connections it isn't the writer's fault that is the player's fault for being incapable of seeing 1+1=2. And frankly you can't really compensate for that kind of stupid.

 

No, I really don't. Don't project your problems onto me. I didn't say it's proof that we should know more about them. I said that there could have been more ruins or archives to find and they wouldn't have been out of place for the setting. There we would learn more about them. The Protagonist learning about the enemy is a good thing. With the Crucible, a side character finds it, a less important side character sends you to get it, people build it and "study" it off screen. Shepard picks up random things to add to it somehow and sends other characters to help somehow. But Shepard doesn't learn anything about it, or even try to, until Thessia and even then it's only because he was sent.

 This is the problem with Shepard being stripped of rank and just being "reinstated" as an Alliance Officer by Anderson. Instead of a Specter with autonomy following up on suggestions (illusion of choice is still better than nothing), Shepard is just taking orders.

 There's no evidence that any cycle finds out about the Reapers until they attack except for this cycle. The only ones deifying the Reapers are the Geth in ME1 and that one Hanar in ME3. You could argue for Kenson in ME2. However both of the latter examples are the result of Indoctrination.

 I see what's thrown in front of me just fine and it's terrible.

 

But that again ignores the fact the Reapers systematically destroy almost all traces of previous cycle. Purposefully leaving only small scraps behind for the next cycle to find. On top of that a couple thousand years of no up keep would cause degrading in data stored. And that isn't even getting into differences in programming languages or speaking languages that would make any old corrupted and degrading data found extremely difficult to read.

Specters still take orders just from the Council rather then from a species specific military set up. And because they are black ops if caught for say killing a couple million Batarian Civilians by a government. Them arresting them and grounding them nothing Council can do. If they try to protest it then they would be openly endorsing the mass murder.  On top of that Specters are the same kind of shadowy government official that conspiracy theorists have night mares about them implanting thought control devices in their teeth. No one likes them. How ever Shepard the Alliance Commander how ever is simply a military man something that everyone can get behind and would act like a much better moral boost if nothing else.

 

Again you take a shot and again you some how fired behind yourself some how. I really had to face palm again because of your post. Never said current cycle worshiped them. How ever any time anything bad happens here it isn't to hard to find a lot of people claiming it was some form of deity that caused the earth quake, tornado, hurricane, etc. You come across a planet that has been in ruins for a couple thousand years and all you can find are scraps of information talking about the destruction of their race and something called a Reaper. And when you have explored not only the entire planet but a majority of major areas in the galaxy and find no trace of said Reaper. You would make the assumption it was in reference to some deity passing judgment during what ever actually caused the destruction of the civilization on the planet. Or to put it another way if tomorrow WW3 was started with nukes flying ever were destroying cities and killing off all life on the planet. And 4 thousand years later some alien race discovered the ruins of our planet looking though what little archeological evidence remains they would find references to various Gods. And people attributing the destruction to said God's wrath.

 

You see what is only thrown in front of you but your eyes can deceive you.  You must be absolutely gob smacked when you go to see a magician then. Because they fool your eyes into thinking they are cutting a lady in half.  Do you stand up and scream murder?

 

http://www.dailymoti...y-ro-sub-hd_fun

 

1:40 thru 2:32

[Natureguy85]

 

But there are no implications of anything. Trapped in dark space claim only works if you ignore every single big of game lore they have stated previously. Because even the most vaguest paying attention to game lore shows how stupid that statement is.

 

No, actually all the lore supports it. You can say the lore presents the challenge of them getting out there in the first place, but that's the starting state of the story.

 

 

 

  You kind of miss the whole point of ME 3 is Shepard uniting the Galaxy against the Reapers. Hence why he develops alliances with and between Turians, Krogans, Asari, Salarians, Quarians and Geth. Or at least some variation of that. And that is part of the reason why the Catalyst offers up the choice. The variables have changed and Shepard is the catalyst of that change.

 

And that's relevant to Organics creating Synthetics that kill them how?

 

 

 

 

 

Of course they don't care. They would if this information was found out before the invasion. ME 1 or 2 they would have made a big deal. They are there and they are causing havok so stopping them is priority over finding out who is controlling them. You really think people trying to prevent or repel ISIS from their cities care who is controlling the troops? They don't care how it was formed or who is directing them. They are more concerned with the ISIS troops loading up heavy construction machinery with armor and explosives and driving them at their defensive lines ensuring they blow at least a portion of it away allowing other ISIS troops to enter the city that way.

 

Actually people do care about who the leaders are, which is why they get targeted. Otherwise we wouldn't have phrases like "cut off the head and the body will die." Of course that doesn't work in every situation, but it could here. However, you're contradicting yourself. You said this information was a big deal but are now arguing why it isn't.

 

 

 

 

I kind of face palmed when I read that. It shows you have not paid a single bit of attention to what I have been saying. Or you have and you are just ignoring it. I'm honestly not sure at this point. The revelation that the Reapers are simply tools being used by some higher power is a big revelation. How ever the fact is the Reapers are the current threat. Take the tools away from said higher being (Reapers) and suddenly that higher being is no longer a current threat and can be found and dealt with.

 

It is a sense of priority which you missed utterly and completely.

 

None of the character say anything about that. They breeze right past it. There's nobody wondering if they'll have to go after another enemy next so new Reapers don't just show up. So the fact that there is some intelligence doesn't matter for the current situation. It's a minor point at the time. Now you're just digging a deeper hole trying to defend something silly you said earlier.

 

 

 

Because they didn't know about the Reapers or the Crucible or the Catalyst. If they did they would have been searching the Citadel and reacted much differently then they did in the trilogy.

 

Well the actions of the Council likes up perfectly with that logic. They don't understand the problem or know how to address it and so they ignore it.  Oh realism always serves the story well.  ME 1 the Council was just angry at Shep for every possible reason. ME 2 and 3 they actually have some valid reasons for their actions even if you don't agree with them. If players are to stupid to make the connections it isn't the writer's fault that is the player's fault for being incapable of seeing 1+1=2. And frankly you can't really compensate for that kind of stupid.

 

It's funny how you continue to act smart for "figuring things out" when you just accept drivel. You're eating dog food and telling me how delicious it is because a guy in a chef jacket handed it to you and said it was a hamburger.

 

 

 

 

But that again ignores the fact the Reapers systematically destroy almost all traces of previous cycle. Purposefully leaving only small scraps behind for the next cycle to find. On top of that a couple thousand years of no up keep would cause degrading in data stored. And that isn't even getting into differences in programming languages or speaking languages that would make any old corrupted and degrading data found extremely difficult to read.

Specters still take orders just from the Council rather then from a species specific military set up. And because they are black ops if caught for say killing a couple million Batarian Civilians by a government. Them arresting them and grounding them nothing Council can do. If they try to protest it then they would be openly endorsing the mass murder.  On top of that Specters are the same kind of shadowy government official that conspiracy theorists have night mares about them implanting thought control devices in their teeth. No one likes them. How ever Shepard the Alliance Commander how ever is simply a military man something that everyone can get behind and would act like a much better moral boost if nothing else.

 

It doesn't ignore anything. We're told the Reapers destroy almost all traces and yet we find Prothean stuff all over the place. They may get 99.9% of things, given the size of the Prothean Empire, but they still miss things that we do and could discover. The fact that what is found might be corrupted, damaged, or otherwise hard to understand is what keeps any one thing from giving us everything and requiring us to go find the next thing.

 

Specters report to the Council but are given permission to proceed as they see fit. The Council is clear about this in the first game. Nobody gets behind Shepard because he's an Alliance Officer. They get behind him because he's Shepard and he does favors for them. However, in focusing on that, you missed the point of what I wrote. I was talking about protagonist, and therefore player, autonomy.

 

 

 

Again you take a shot and again you some how fired behind yourself some how. I really had to face palm again because of your post. Never said current cycle worshiped them. How ever any time anything bad happens here it isn't to hard to find a lot of people claiming it was some form of deity that caused the earth quake, tornado, hurricane, etc. You come across a planet that has been in ruins for a couple thousand years and all you can find are scraps of information talking about the destruction of their race and something called a Reaper. And when you have explored not only the entire planet but a majority of major areas in the galaxy and find no trace of said Reaper. You would make the assumption it was in reference to some deity passing judgment during what ever actually caused the destruction of the civilization on the planet. Or to put it another way if tomorrow WW3 was started with nukes flying ever were destroying cities and killing off all life on the planet. And 4 thousand years later some alien race discovered the ruins of our planet looking though what little archeological evidence remains they would find references to various Gods. And people attributing the destruction to said God's wrath.

 

Sure, but so what? What relevance does this have to anything? Where is this done in Mass Effect? Are you referring to the Salarian councilor's claim of why the Geth follow Saren? Nobody ever claims the Protheans thought they were destroyed by some deity. If they did, please remind me where.

 

 

 

You see what is only thrown in front of you but your eyes can deceive you.  You must be absolutely gob smacked when you go to see a magician then. Because they fool your eyes into thinking they are cutting a lady in half.  Do you stand up and scream murder?

 

http://www.dailymoti...y-ro-sub-hd_fun

 

1:40 thru 2:32

 

Back to bad analogies, I see. The whole point of a magic trick is to be fooled. That's not what I want from a story.

That show was pretty funny, so thanks for that!

[Dantriges]

You really think people trying to prevent or repel ISIS from their cities care who is controlling the troops? They don't care how it was formed or who is directing them. They are more concerned with the ISIS troops loading up heavy construction machinery with armor and explosives and driving them at their defensive lines ensuring they blow at least a portion of it away allowing other ISIS troops to enter the city that way.

 

The average grunt on the ground, probably not. Butwe are not talking about them. Shep isn´t just some random grunt, but working on a way to defeat the Reapers. For that intel is the most important thing. Senior officers should certainly have a clue about it. Know your enemy, know yourself (and invest a lot in spies) is pretty basic advice in warfare for the last 2.500 years.

[Natureguy85]

The average grunt on the ground, probably not. Butwe are not talking about them. Shep isn´t just some random grunt, but working on a way to defeat the Reapers. For that intel is the most important thing. Senior officers should certainly have a clue about it. Know your enemy, know yourself (and invest a lot in spies) is pretty basic advice in warfare for the last 2.500 years.

We already know gothpunkboy doesn't know world history.

[gothpunkboy89]

The average grunt on the ground, probably not. Butwe are not talking about them. Shep isn´t just some random grunt, but working on a way to defeat the Reapers. For that intel is the most important thing. Senior officers should certainly have a clue about it. Know your enemy, know yourself (and invest a lot in spies) is pretty basic advice in warfare for the last 2.500 years.

 

How have those spies been doing during the Reaper Invasion? Clearly if spying is all that is needed this information should have come out well before and the Catalyst should have been found out well before the Reapers showed up. Reminds me of the funny joke that was mentioned in one of the games. When an Alliance officer is surprised that the Salarians accessed sensitive Intel from the Alliance networks. Making an off hand comment that Humans have only been doing this for 200 years or so. While the Salarians have been doing the same thing for 2,000 years. Well the Catalyst and Reapers have been doing it for at least 2 million years.

 

Let us not also forget that the Reapers currently in the game have the entire galaxy under siege. Every ounce of military effort is being directed simply to delay their advances as much as possible.  Since the Reapers are not tied to the whole cliche of destroy the central computer and all other things linked to it dies as well. Their main priority be it a  ensign or and Admiral of the Fleet. Stopping the Reapers takes first priority because they are the ones doing the killing. Finding this guiding intelligence that direct the Reapers is second priory after the Reapers have been dealt with.

 

Or to put it another way you deal with the person currently breaking your nose and face first before you deal with the guy standing behind him telling him to beat the tar out of you.

[kal_reegar]

After Sovereing is defeated, Shepard says that the reapers are coming, and he/she will have to find some way to stop them. Anderson/Udina agrees, and makes a short speech about how they will have to fight the Reapers.

So the imminent return of the reapers fleet was obvious since ME1.

[Dantriges]

How have those spies been doing during the Reaper Invasion? Clearly if spying is all that is needed this information should have come out well before and the Catalyst should have been found out well before the Reapers showed up. Reminds me of the funny joke that was mentioned in one of the games. When an Alliance officer is surprised that the Salarians accessed sensitive Intel from the Alliance networks. Making an off hand comment that Humans have only been doing this for 200 years or so. While the Salarians have been doing the same thing for 2,000 years. Well the Catalyst and Reapers have been doing it for at least 2 million years.

 

Let us not also forget that the Reapers currently in the game have the entire galaxy under siege. Every ounce of military effort is being directed simply to delay their advances as much as possible.  Since the Reapers are not tied to the whole cliche of destroy the central computer and all other things linked to it dies as well. Their main priority be it a  ensign or and Admiral of the Fleet. Stopping the Reapers takes first priority because they are the ones doing the killing. Finding this guiding intelligence that direct the Reapers is second priory after the Reapers have been dealt with.

 

Or to put it another way you deal with the person currently breaking your nose and face first before you deal with the guy standing behind him telling him to beat the tar out of you.

 

Oh no, human spies won´t work on the Reapers sayeth the Gothpunk missing the point. Intel is crucial in warfare, no matte rhow you obtain it. You have to modify your approach ofc when you are dealing with a fleet of space cuttlefish.

 

Your analogy is rather simple. War is not a fistfight. And yeah sure, every officer dropped any idea of strategy as soon as the shooting started.

[NerdWithBigStick]

The nerd rage is strong with this thread.

[Elhanan]

The nerd rage is strong with this thread.

No rage; chose Synthesis and the green ftw. Give peas a chance