Lair of the Shadow Broker. Spectre Vasir is at a crime scene, ordering the police around and even forces them to leave. Unless they are bribed which would be base speculation and highly unlikely, Illium seems to accept council spectres as persons of authority better, than their own justicars.
Aha. Ok, whatever.
Police vs mercenary force hired and ordered to kill anything and everything that enters the building. Including the innocent workers.
Yea totally the exact same thing.
That wasn´t what I meant. That´s in case Nassana gets funny deas after a possible deal and sends local law after you.
Well if you compress everything down and throw it out with some assumption, I have no idea where it comes from, I see no reason for an elaborate response.
That wasn´t what I meant. That´s in case Nassana gets funny deas after a possible deal and sends local law after you.
Well if you compress everything down and throw it out with some assumption, I have no idea where it comes from, I see no reason for an elaborate response.
She can't though because Thane killed her. And if you tried to stop him as a professional assassin he would have been obligated to try to kill you. Forcing you to kill him in return. Much the same way the blue suns are obligated to try and kill you on your way up the tower. So you are obligated to kill them to stay alive.
Part of that grey that I said exists in the game. Even if only in small quantities.
I've been wondering why to some people it was logical to choose other options over the destroy ending - because as Shepard you are tasked to save the galaxy and "destroy" the reapers.
From your first encounter with Sovereign the galaxy knows that reapers can be destroyed with conventional methods (theoretically) - so when you are finally presented with a choice - why would you have a sudden change of heart and choose the other endings?
I assumed direct control of the Reapers to curb stomp the Leviathans. Because seriously, they have it coming.
"Apex of organic life" my robocrustacien ass!
Besides, no one said ReaperShep can't clone himself a new body, stick a control implant in the back of its head, and direct things personally. However, this might require dodging some Claymore fire if you decide to ring Tali's doorbell on Rannoch 
.
Oh well, that's my headcannon and I'm sticking to it!
It's kind of logical from a Paragon /peacemaking standpoint.
Fortunately, I'm playing a sci-fi action series. As nice as the above is, I can't stomach it here. Besides that, it offends me when fiction tries to turn their heroes/heroines into martyr types, when the rest of their lives aren't quite that. I hate it when someone turns into Jesus at the last minute. It makes sense if you're Jesus and actually walking that path. It's stupid if you're soldier. This is a big problem with American culture in particular.. equating their warriors with saints. Even though this game is Canadian, I still see this Americanism seeping through. It happens a lot in war stories and war games... or even how we discuss WW2 and the Normandy. Soldiers themselves rarely want nothing to do with it. It's the dumbasses who write about them that do.
But I'm probably getting way off topic.
It's kind of logical from a Paragon /peacemaking standpoint.
Fortunately, I'm playing a sci-fi action series. As nice as the above is, I can't stomach it here. Besides that, it offends me when fiction tries to turn their heroes/heroines into martyr types, when the rest of their lives aren't quite that. I hate it when someone turns into Jesus at the last minute. It makes sense if you're Jesus and actually walking that path. It's stupid if you're soldier. This is a big problem with American culture in particular.. equating their warriors with saints. Even though this game is Canadian, I still see this Americanism seeping through. It happens a lot in war stories and war games... or even how we discuss WW2 and the Normandy. Soldiers themselves rarely want nothing to do with it. It's the dumbasses who write about them that do.
But I'm probably getting way off topic.
When did they get all jeasusy with shepard?
How does any of the game some how connect to americans treating soldiers as saints?
I've tried connecting the dots but can't quite see it....
When did they get all jeasusy with shepard?
How does any of the game some how connect to americans treating soldiers as saints?
I've tried connecting the dots but can't quite see it....
Anytime soldiers are colored in terms of "sacrifice", it's doing this. Popular culture is rife with it. Especially in America where they connect the duty to Country with religion itself. But it's not exclusive to America. Brits do the same thing. Muslims do it as well... it's why they call their own jihadis as "martyrs".
Here, it's mostly something that generally comes from civilian minds.. especially in entertainment. Lots of movies play with these images. It's OK to display war in noble terms, but it's overdone sometimes. Ask the average soldier or better, an old vet from WW2, and they either don't talk about the horror, or just saying they're doing a job.
It's not something you could easily connect dots with though. It's just a motif I'm talking about.
As for Shepard, the only real Jesus like moment is at the end. It could have been worse with Drew K writing, where he wanted us to choose between sacrificing the whole human race (via the dark energy plot) or killing the Reapers. Luckily, that didn't happen. Being Jesus (or making the ENTIRE human race a collective Jesus) is not an option now.
As for Shepard, the only real Jesus like moment is at the end. It could have been worse with Drew K writing, where he wanted us to choose between sacrificing the whole human race (via the dark energy plot) or killing the Reapers. Luckily, that didn't happen. Being Jesus (or making the ENTIRE human race a collective Jesus) is not an option now.
Shepard dying and coming back to life isn't a jesus like moment?
Shepard dying and coming back to life isn't a jesus like moment?
That was just ridiculous. I don't know what they were trying to do really. Other than calling it Lazarus, that was a big "Huh/WtF" moment. 
Then I moved on. Jacob told me it didn't matter. He must be the authority on the greatest scientific achievment of mankind.
She can't though because Thane killed her. And if you tried to stop him as a professional assassin he would have been obligated to try to kill you. Forcing you to kill him in return. Much the same way the blue suns are obligated to try and kill you on your way up the tower. So you are obligated to kill them to stay alive.
Part of that grey that I said exists in the game. Even if only in small quantities.
I meant in a possible alternate scenario, if Thane thinks he´s somehow bound to some imaginary assassin´s code that´s his problem. He has an obligation to kill his target, not kill leveryone who stand in his way. Especially if it gets him killed. AFAIK contract killing isn´t a martyrs business. I just watched the mission from the beginning and from the start you talk about doing a full frontal assault. That you see someone getting gunned down by security while an unknown assassin is moving in the building is a thin justification for going in after the fact that you arrived at the front door ready to rumble. You are giving no explanation, why you are there, you just move in for the kills and you do the same in quite a few missions over the course of the game. .
Anytime soldiers are colored in terms of "sacrifice", it's doing this. Popular culture is rife with it. Especially in America where they connect the duty to Country with religion itself. But it's not exclusive to America. Brits do the same thing. Muslims do it as well... it's why they call their own jihadis as "martyrs".
Here, it's mostly something that generally comes from civilian minds.. especially in entertainment. Lots of movies play with these images. It's OK to display war in noble terms, but it's overdone sometimes. Ask the average soldier or better, an old vet from WW2, and they either don't talk about the horror, or just saying they're doing a job.
It's not something you could easily connect dots with though. It's just a motif I'm talking about.
As for Shepard, the only real Jesus like moment is at the end. It could have been worse with Drew K writing, where he wanted us to choose between sacrificing the whole human race (via the dark energy plot) or killing the Reapers. Luckily, that didn't happen. Being Jesus (or making the ENTIRE human race a collective Jesus) is not an option now.
Before I reply to any of this I do feel impelled to ask your age and were you live. I feel the need to know if I'm talking to a younger person or someone my age and if they have first hand experience or are just going off stereotypes.
Before I reply to any of this I do feel impelled to ask your age and were you live. I feel the need to know if I'm talking to a younger person or someone my age and if they have first hand experience or are just going off stereotypes.
If it makes you feel better, I'm nearly 40. And I live in the US. I still love America. It has nothing to do with stereotypes, but a condemnation of how war is generally portrayed. It's colored with motifs of nobility and martyrdom in pop culture. If you think I'm dogging the "sacrifice of soldiers" out of some sense of youthful rebellion or something, that's not it. I'm actually a conservative and know war is necessary. It's an ugly job, but necessary. I just don't like the sentimentality surrounding a lot of it. It's cheesy. Hell, I probably don't like sentimentality in general... if you're really trying to understand me.
It doesn't matter how old I am though. Hell, my grandpa just died recently.. He was in his late 80s. He operated tanks in WW2. He didn't like most of these things either. I couldn't even get him to watch Saving Private Ryan... which is decent.
I had to ask because you are using reasons based on more stereotype then anything else. Up to and including the jihadis statement. Which the way you used it is a perversion of the original meaning of the word. Which is why I was personally curious about if I was dealing with a youth or not.
How ever the effect of war is shown. Shepard has repeat dreams were he is forced to watch the child at the start of the game die. By the end of Priority Thessia. Talking to Joker after the mission even a paragon shepard snaps at joker for his wise ass comment. And later at EDI. Listening to the PTSD Asari in the Hospital shows the mental scars it has given people. Walking around the holding area you can hear a teen talking to one of the guards about waiting for her parents. The more times you visit the more you hear how in denial she is about her parents surviving.
The signs are there. Just because they aren't waved in your face all the time doesn't mean it isn't there.
The Stargazer moment I assume is what you are talking about. Since that option shows up in multiple endings. Including the refusal option. That event takes place at least 30-40,000 years later. Since the cycle lasts 50,000 years each. In that time history can be lost and altered to how someone wants to see it. Case in point Napoleon and being short. Or Nero and almost all the stuff he is known for. Hell you know how much American history is altered and shifted over the years? Paul Revere ride anyone? You know the guy that went the shortest distance. While history ignored the guy that actually went x3 the distance.
I had to ask because you are using reasons based on more stereotype then anything else. Up to and including the jihadis statement. Which the way you used it is a perversion of the original meaning of the word. Which is why I was personally curious about if I was dealing with a youth or not.
How ever the effect of war is shown. Shepard has repeat dreams were he is forced to watch the child at the start of the game die. By the end of Priority Thessia. Talking to Joker after the mission even a paragon shepard snaps at joker for his wise ass comment. And later at EDI. Listening to the PTSD Asari in the Hospital shows the mental scars it has given people. Walking around the holding area you can hear a teen talking to one of the guards about waiting for her parents. The more times you visit the more you hear how in denial she is about her parents surviving.
The signs are there. Just because they aren't waved in your face all the time doesn't mean it isn't there.
The Stargazer moment I assume is what you are talking about. Since that option shows up in multiple endings. Including the refusal option. That event takes place at least 30-40,000 years later. Since the cycle lasts 50,000 years each. In that time history can be lost and altered to how someone wants to see it. Case in point Napoleon and being short. Or Nero and almost all the stuff he is known for. Hell you know how much American history is altered and shifted over the years? Paul Revere ride anyone? You know the guy that went the shortest distance. While history ignored the guy that actually went x3 the distance.
You've kind of lost me on mentioning all of these other game sequences. Not sure how they tie in to what we're talking about. I didn't really have a problem with it though. I actually liked eavesdropping on that woman in the hospital. I only wish we could have spoken to Joker about it... it'd make the Thessia mission better. I hate that we auto chew his ass out, when he has plenty heartbreak himself. And we (the player) know it. Yet Shep doesn't.
Anyways.. I only mention Jihadis, not because I particularly care about them, but like you said... it's a perversion of the word martyrdom. But I think the concept of sacrifice is often perversely used in the west too. But not in such an overt way.
That was just ridiculous. I don't know what they were trying to do really. Other than calling it Lazarus, that was a big "Huh/WtF" moment.
Then I moved on. Jacob told me it didn't matter. He must be the authority on the greatest scientific achievment of mankind.
Ok, you disliked it, but you didn't answered my question, so I think you agree with me. Then the path taken by Shepard is "jesus path" far before the ending. And the whole story of Mass Effect 3 is written to lead to that kind of ending (shepard-shepherd who tries to unify the galaxy though he knows he will die ; Mass Effect 3 is based on many sacrifices and in the end Shepard's sacrifice).
Anyway, I'll just add that you seem to take the ending on a religious level without any distance. The problem is that from Mass Effect 1 to Mass Effect 3, there's a message about religion : it's misinterpretation of real events. That's one of the many reasons there's the stargazer scene after the credits.
Ok, you disliked it, but you didn't answered my question, so I think you agree with me. Then the path taken by Shepard is "jesus path" far before the ending. And the whole story of Mass Effect 3 is written to lead to that kind of ending (shepard-shepherd who tries to unify the galaxy though he knows he will die ; Mass Effect 3 is based on many sacrifices and in the end Shepard's sacrifice).
Anyway, I'll just add that you seem to take the ending on a religious level without any distance. The problem is that from Mass Effect 1 to Mass Effect 3, there's a message about religion : it's misinterpretation of real events. That's one of the many reasons there's the stargazer scene after the credits.
Yeah, ME3 already was moving there to begin with. I won't argue that.
I'm not an ending hater though. I chose Destroy and liked it well enough. I just think the game was urging me to do something else. Which I resist.
As for the stargazer scene, it's stupid for some Shepards. It loses it's charm when an old man is telling bedtime stories to a kid, about how my Shep lit people on fire, commited genocide, executed people on their knees, forced them to drink poison, and racked up a body count that might've been in the thousands. Among other things. It's a big afterthought on the creator/writers' part.. like they didn't take into account much of anything many players did. It only works for people who buy into the feelgood sentiments that it was going for... People who fancied themselves Paragon Soldier Jesus. "The Shepard". The rest of us were just playing something like an 80s action movie. More like Die Hard and Ripley from Aliens, at best. I don't hate, but I gotta laugh a bit. It's absurd.
Sorry but robocop 1, die hard 1 and 3 and Alien are not just action movies. If you think so then you misinterpreted them.
I said Aliens. Not Alien. 
I know what the movies are about, but now I'm just going to write you off for even attempting this. You're way too pretentious. It's going to strip all of the fun out of this conversation.
I said Aliens. Not Alien.
I know what the movies are about, but now I'm just going to write you off for even attempting this. You're way too pretentious. It's going to strip all of the fun out of this conversation.
Pretentious? That's impossible. You can read some arrogance if you want in what I wrote (that's totally different).
Ok, we'll stop here if you want.
As for the stargazer scene, it's stupid for some Shepards. It loses it's charm when an old man is telling bedtime stories to a kid, about how my Shep lit people on fire, commited genocide,
What genocide did Shepard commit?
executed people on their knees,
You mean Shiala? She could've fought back. I know I would
forced them to drink poison,
Why is that a problem? The guy wanted to kill you with that same poison? Its really no different then that turian killing the guy. He got what he deserved
and racked up a body count that might've been in the thousands.
Thousands? hahahaha. My Shepard doesn't deal with such pathetic numbers. She deals with millions. Excellent
Anytime soldiers are colored in terms of "sacrifice", it's doing this. Popular culture is rife with it. Especially in America where they connect the duty to Country with religion itself. But it's not exclusive to America. Brits do the same thing. Muslims do it as well... it's why they call their own jihadis as "martyrs".
Here, it's mostly something that generally comes from civilian minds.. especially in entertainment. Lots of movies play with these images. It's OK to display war in noble terms, but it's overdone sometimes. Ask the average soldier or better, an old vet from WW2, and they either don't talk about the horror, or just saying they're doing a job.
You've kind of lost me on mentioning all of these other game sequences. Not sure how they tie in to what we're talking about. I didn't really have a problem with it though. I actually liked eavesdropping on that woman in the hospital. I only wish we could have spoken to Joker about it... it'd make the Thessia mission better. I hate that we auto chew his ass out, when he has plenty heartbreak himself. And we (the player) know it. Yet Shep doesn't.
Anyways.. I only mention Jihadis, not because I particularly care about them, but like you said... it's a perversion of the word martyrdom. But I think the concept of sacrifice is often perversely used in the west too. But not in such an overt way.
Above post is what I'm pointing at. They show the horror of the war just not waving it in your face. And every single person lost fighting the reapers is a sacrifice. Because from the people in the game's perspective this is an extinction level event. Thousands of years of history and growth will be wiped out.Char dies with the hope his actions will (particularly if you got them to hook up in 2) play a part in helping end the war so Ereba and their unborn daughter might be safe. If that isn't a noble death then please do describe what falls into the category of one.
No you used jihadis because you don't actually understand the meaning of it. Because it has been used by idiots in the US (particularly though other countries are just as bad) for a long time till the real meaning of the word was lost. Used by the same kind of idiots to gain some form of legitimacy for their action as those people in what was it New York who beat 2 kids to get them to confess their sins. With one dieing from the beating.
The reapers only attacked because it was an AI's solution.Why would anyone pick Control or Synthesis?
Having the reapers around in any way shape or form is a really BAD IDEA.
The only way to get rid of the reapers is to destroy them.
Unless you think outside the box and see the ending as something a little more cerebral......
Yeah, sprouting a bunch of bullshit about doing his best saving & freedom, when 3 solutions were offered and results in the extinction of multiple species is not meThree choices, all scream of trap and W** is going on.
Refuse, is the only way.
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