71 réponses à ce sujet

[Venus_L]

Yeah I was just replaying the game and I got to this scene and I was thinking she is playing everyone like a fiddle, In the temple solas said she is "motherly" but she is also dark and vengeful at the same time. Honestly I think she may have a part in solas plan or perhaps it is mythal's plan from the beginning and Solas is the unwitting pawn in her vengeance.

What if all of this was planned by Mythal from the beginning? I mean, when Solas gave his orb to Corypheus, his plan was for Corypheus to unlock it and him dying in process. But I don't see Solas a miscalculated person at all, he knows a great deal of things. Wouldn't he know by then that Corypheus discovered the secret of immortaly? I believe he didn't take this decision in just a few days. He analyzed, watched Corypheus from afar and saw him fit for the job. The only chance for Solas to recover his power was by unlocking the orb. What if Mythal had something to do with Corypheus secret of immortality? Because this way, with the orb at Cory, Solas put in motion plan B, fighting Cory with the Inquisition and recovering his orb. But he wasn't sure of its recovery either. With the orb broken, Solas was forced somehow to go to Mythal and we see in the epilogue scene "I knew you would come, Dread Wolf." She knew that this was going to happen. If she is the motherly goddesses why give the power to Solas? Sounds like this was her plan from the very beginning. She also states that "truth is not the end, but a beginning." This way she'll get a reckoning that will shake the very heavens. I don't know, there are so many questions....

[SoulWeaver]

Think about Morrigan's and Sandal's as well.

 

Sandal has dialog, besides "Enchantment!"? What have I missed?

[Fredward]

Pretty sure some part of Flemeth is still around with whoever drank out of the Well, plus OGB power if you had the kid. I think she's gonna wind up being the 'good' guy, revealing the knowledge necessary to stop Solas via Wellwhispers. I don't think the only god who cared about her worshipers, goes around inside a human and raises a bunch of human daughters, 'nudges' history etc. is gonna be down with mass-genocide. Of anyone, even if these people aren't technically 'hers.' It's gonna be a bit of a role-reversal. Solas is making decisions like one of the people he used to oppose and while Mythal never sucked as hard she is now more human/not-an-ancient-elf than Solas will ever be.

[SoulWeaver]

I think she's using everyone because she speaks of getting vengeance. Solas and the others seem to be pawns, and how Solas described her sounds like she's more than an Elven Goddess. She might not even be one of them and is something even more powerful.

 

That makes sense. Solas says the other "Elvhen gods" betrayed her, so she probably wants vengeance against them. Solas said he "had plans" to handle them and that plan may actually be Mythal's. She would, of course, need the veil removed in order to get to them.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if the whole thing about daughters and old god souls was part of her plan to handle the other "gods". 

[Beomer]

If Solas is duty bound to Mythal, then how could he have killed her?

If we're assuming this then it's pretty much a given that Solas did not absorb Mythal's essence at the end of the main game, rather she possessed him and abandoned Flemeth's body.

[Poledo]

If Solas is duty bound to Mythal, then how could he have killed her?

If we're assuming this then it's pretty much a given that Solas did not absorb Mythal's essence at the end of the main game, rather she possessed him and abandoned Flemeth's body.

 

Personally I assume that Morrigan's son possessing the old god soul is going to be the canon. In that respect I am also assuming that this is what Solas received from Flemeth instead of Flemythal's essence. She was doing something with the Eluvian right before Solas showed up... I'm 100% certain she is not dead. She spoke of a reckoning with such conviction, there is no way she went quietly into the night so Solas could do his thing.

[Darkstarr11]

He might not be a slave in the traditional sense, but he may have a fierce loyalty.  In some ways, it seems like he's committed to a desire for revenge mixed with a desire to make up for past mistakes.  Personally, I think when he rips the Veil down, he plans on doing SOMETHING to the Evanuris and not in just a 'time to die way'.  I think he means to make them suffer.  

 

Is it possible Mythal is his mother?

[Porphyriassong]

Personally I assume that Morrigan's son possessing the old god soul is going to be the canon. In that respect I am also assuming that this is what Solas received from Flemeth instead of Flemythal's essence. She was doing something with the Eluvian right before Solas showed up... I'm 100% certain she is not dead. She spoke of a reckoning with such conviction, there is no way she went quietly into the night so Solas could do his thing.

If Morrigan's son were Canon, wouldn't that be the default world state for DA:I?

[Rekkampum]

Personally I assume that Morrigan's son possessing the old god soul is going to be the canon. In that respect I am also assuming that this is what Solas received from Flemeth instead of Flemythal's essence. She was doing something with the Eluvian right before Solas showed up... I'm 100% certain she is not dead. She spoke of a reckoning with such conviction, there is no way she went quietly into the night so Solas could do his thing.

 

It's already established that OGB is not Bioware's canon, and that the original HoF sacrificed themselves.

[CaptainCuddle]

It's already established that OGB is not Bioware's canon, and that the original HoF sacrificed themselves.

I don't think so... Just because something's the default in the Keep doesn't make it cannon. Bioware tries to be careful about screwing with players' individual head-cannons, thankfully.

 

That said, that also means that OGB probably won't become cannon. (Unless they come up with some convoluted tricksy way to explain that the Old God's soul was saved anyway.)

[Venus_L]

I think she's using everyone because she speaks of getting vengeance. Solas and the others seem to be pawns, and how Solas described her sounds like she's more than an Elven Goddess. She might not even be one of them and is something even more powerful.

This theory that they were all pawns of Mythal, including Solas, is quite interesting. I found also this video which is saying pretty much what we have spoken here. So, we are not the only ones who think that all that happend it was planned by Mythal all along. Solas, the "The Trickster God" being tricked by Mythal, a final piece to her puzzle. I love this thread and the theories . I want more

 

[vertigomez]

He gets mad at your for drinking from the well, does anyone else think it's because the wisdom of the well could have exposed his true nature and identity to the Inquisitor? It did help them get past Solas' spirit guardians in Trespasser. His protests seem like they make a lot more sense considering this.

Eh, a little bit of both. He genuinely doesn't like slavery to false gods but he also doesn't like it when people are onto him (especially people who have the desire and power to stop him from doing what he wants...).

He's a complicated dude.

[diaspora2k5]

If Morrigan's son were Canon, wouldn't that be the default world state for DA:I?

Laidlaw actually explained this. It's because they wanted Inquisition to be a game people can get into without having played previous games. Old God Baby makes no sense to people who didn't play Origins. There is no Origins canon- or alternatively, they're all canon.

[almasy87]

He didn't kill her. Flemeth was an old woman who was alive most likely because of Mythal. When she gave her soul to him, the body of Flemeth was left a soulless shell (for now). If you watch the scene closely, she knows what she's doing and he realizes it a split-second too late. It's all in the eye communication. I have this eerie feeling all her daughters are caring pieces of her soul and Morrigan doesn't have the whole story.

You know... I never thought about it like this.. But I totally see what you mean now. When he raises up his face just a tiny bit as if he is realizing something..

But also... I just rewatched that scene (for the millionth time) but it kinda appared to me in a different light now. He looks rather submissive, doesn't he? And he apologizes... as in apologizing for having failed.. almost like he was coming back empty handed to his "master" from a mission given to him (the mission is revenging her, and by giving the Orb to Cory and then resulting into the orb breaking he failed his part).

He says it's his fault, so he should be the one paying the price (what is the price exactly? remaining powerless?). But he needs to help the People. And he's so sorry. But he looks sad.

Then she says she is also sorry.. Why? is she saying "I'm sorry cause it seems that only one of us can continue this"?

And then, the "blue" eyes at the end.. It's not a given that it's Fen'harel. Flemeth has the same glow in her eyes when she commands the Inquisitor to restrain Morrigan.
So it could as well be that she has just taken over his body. But then why not keep the Flemeth's body and absorb Fen'harel instead of the opposite? Is that cause Flemeth's body is too old/human and Solas is young/an elf?

I don't know what to think anymore

Even after the revelations in Trespasser, this stinger continues to raise so many questions for me.

[almasy87]

If the theory he was once a spirit made flesh by Mythal is true (solely based on Cole's ramblings in Trespasser) she basically birthed his current form and gave him the name Solas (which is interesting since Wisdom corrupted becomes Pride). Could have binded him too.

 And this would also make sense if you consider he has a "long time" spirit friend who is also a spirit of Wisdom.... It would explain why he would get that angry with those mages who bound his friend if the same was done to him.

Mmmmmmmmmh..

[diaspora2k5]

Eh, I don't think Solas is a spirit, but I do think the lines are blurred during the time where the fade and the earth were still one.

[Gervaise]

When does Cole say about Solas being a spirit made flesh?    I've just been round with him with me for every bit except the first trip through the eluvian and he never said anything like that.   The only time I recall him saying something specific about Solas was when the Qunari priestess said she was going to kill him and Cole objected that he was a good wolf.  I wanted to yell at him that all those skeletons lying around in the library were people who got stranded by Fen'Harel and starved to death, just like the original Cole.    Cole apparently seems to have a good idea of all the suffering that is coming but instead of trying to help stop it is just going to turn up to offer "comfort" when it does, which is going to be little consolation to people dying horribly in a world of chaotic flames.   

 

Also where did you read that the forgotten ones were elves who shed their bodies and became demons?     I thought the codex said they were simply banished by the Evnauris without indicating exactly what they were.   They could have been spirits since the elves could interact freely with them.

 

I think it makes little difference whether Flemeth took over Solas or he absorbed Mythal and now controls her.    The fact is that his plan seems to be to kill millions of innocent people just to try and restore what he destroyed, also resulting in the death of likely millions of people (or at least many thousands).   

 

As for the Well, the oddest thing for me was when he asked me what I was going to do with it when I hadn't even drunk from the thing.   When I suggested we shouldn't count our chickens until Cory was out of the way, I got "Solas Disapproves".    Actually Morrigan had already told me she was planning on joining the Warden with their son, so I had already assumed that the Well was something I would no longer control.      It was noticeable that even before his meeting with Flemeth he would pump you for information whilst revealing very little himself.   Every time he let something slip and you attempted to find out more, he would either change the subject or you'd simply get another disapproval (or both).     Looking back on it, his actions all the way through fitted perfectly with what he tells you in Trespasser, so whatever plan he is pursuing, he was doing it before the meeting.  

 

I think Flemeth expected him to come because of what happened to his orb, which she knew about.    She knew he would be seeking an alternative power so he could continue to pursue his plans.     Presumably if our fight with Cory had not drained the orb and cracked it, two years down the line there would be no Inquisitor, Inquisition or anyone else because he would have proceeded with his plan already.     I think Flemeth has a contingency plan, involving Morrigan but also required her to surrender to Solas so that ultimately having Mythal inside him will prevent his plan coming to fruition.      The reckoning she spoke of was actually with Fen'Harel.    Mythal was a protector, who cared for her people and at the core of her being I don't think that has changed.     However, she acknowledged my Dalish Inquisitor as one of the People and she also did the same to Merrill, which is why she will stop Solas from destroying them along with everyone else.

[almasy87]

I think Flemeth has a contingency plan, involving Morrigan but also required her to surrender to Solas so that ultimately having Mythal inside him will prevent his plan coming to fruition.      The reckoning she spoke of was actually with Fen'Harel.    Mythal was a protector, who cared for her people and at the core of her being I don't think that has changed.     However, she acknowledged my Dalish Inquisitor as one of the People and she also did the same to Merrill, which is why she will stop Solas from destroying them along with everyone else.

 

I agree with everything else you said but not sure about this last part. She says she wants revenge. "I carried Mythal through the ages. She was betrayed as I was betrayed (makes sense), as the world was betrayed (this part I'm not too sure about.. What was the "world" betrayed from and what exactly does she mean? Betrayed by the Evanuris who were enslaving the People, or betrayed by Fen'harel who cast the Veil? The second one wouldn't make much sense)... and she (Flemeth) will see her (Mythal) avenged.

 

So basically Flemeth can feel that Mythal wants revenge since they share one body.

So the whole question is, what is the revenge she plans? Is it the same as Solas' plan? He says he has plans for the Evanuris for when they are going to be released after removing the Veil. And he also wants to avenge Mythal.. so I'm pretty sure they share the same plan.
Why would she try to stop him? It's true she was the Protector and all but she doesn't seem to be THAT keen on helping modern elves either. When the Quizzy asks her why she doesn't reveal herself to the People, she gives a vague answer, like "Meh, it's useless/too late". It's like what Solas also says. It's useless because this world is f*cked up in his opinion.
Mythal imho just as well manipulates people to her own end but she does it in a way that looks nice (helping the HoF/Hawke/Inq) without looking suspicious, so that she can be left alone to do whatever it is she is doing by collecting the OGS and such while the focus is shifted on others (in this case, Solas).