Interesting idea. If true, though, he actually might have preferred to see the Well destroyed. I mean, Morrigan having the knowledge isn't much better. Also, his knowledge of how to create and destroy the veil may be exclusively his, and not something Mythal's priests would have known.
Actually, when asked for his opinion on the matter, he thinks the knowledge should be taken from the temple, not destroyed.
Actually, when asked for his opinion on the matter, he thinks the knowledge should be taken from the temple, not destroyed.
It's funny cause he wants it to be taken, but he doesn't want anyone to take it XD not him (clearly), nor Morrigan, nor the Inquisitor.
So I never understood what he wanted there.. Who should have taken it?
Wanted to make another note re: Solas being a spirit. There is an interesting conversation between him and Viv that has:
Random? Or coupled with his name is Vivienne being very perceptive without realizing it?
Oh ok XD
I never took Viv together with Solas so never heard that convo.
Mmmmh XD
Guest_Raynah_*
It's funny cause he wants it to be taken, but he doesn't want anyone to take it XD not him (clearly), nor Morrigan, nor the Inquisitor.
So I never understood what he wanted there.. Who should have taken it?
The devs said something was cut or went wrong with the scene. If you drink and he tells you he begged you not to do it, he never did. It seems that scene was really messed up. He did not want you bound to Mythal at all. That was what they did not make clear. I don't think he really cared about Morrigan, just her motives and if you ask him to do it, he desperately tells you not to ask again.
It's funny cause he wants it to be taken, but he doesn't want anyone to take it XD not him (clearly), nor Morrigan, nor the Inquisitor.
So I never understood what he wanted there.. Who should have taken it?
He probably didn't like any of the options but liked Coryshizzle getting his hands on it less. But Solas is generally "pro-knowledge", so it makes sense he doesn't want to see it lost.
So he would have wanted it to remain there? Not destroyed but not taken by anyone? 
But yeah, it was either one of us or Corypheus...
Silly egg
He probably didn't like any of the options but liked Coryshizzle getting his hands on it less. But Solas is generally "pro-knowledge", so it makes sense he doesn't want to see it lost.
Pretty much and depending on what you say afterwards you pretty much can get all the approval back and a little more if you question why he cares so much and when he asks you what you will do with the knowledge. You tell him you will use the knowledge of the past to help build a better future he is surprised and glad and aftwards he asks you if you fail what then? If no one listens to you etc.
The inquisitor can then say even if he fails he will try again no matter what if one plan does not work they will try another never giving up and always looking foward. Which somewhat leaves solas stunned and impressed. Talking along those lines pretty much cancels out the approval lost and he notes that he is glad its in your hands instead of cory.
My current theory is that Mythal is allowing Solas to use her power because she can't have her VENGEANCE! until he releases them. But once they're out another Flemythal castoff will appear or Morythal will and Solas shrivals up and dies in the same way Flemythal did at the end of DAI.
I have a suspicion that Mythal-as-Flemeth is a corrupted fragment or the corrupted soul of Mythal.
While wandering through the shattered library, you find a few references to Mythal in the age of the elves: particularly one instance where she convinced Falon'din and Elgar'nan to settle a conflict by a battle of champions, rather than drawing the entire world into war. The memory credits Mythal for her wisdom, and it's generally heavily implied by Solas's sentiments at the end and by Mythal's role in elven mythology that she was a benevolent figure most concerned with the well-being of the elvish people.
That Mythal-as-Flemeth is manipulating events and seems more concerned with vengeance and motions beyond the ken of most people seems to lend credence to the notion that she is a corrupted fragment or version of herself. That Solas's motivation for having created the Veil and banished the Evanuris in the first place was because the Evanuris murdered Mythal also reinforces my belief, since Solas would not have been so angered by Mythal's murder if the Mythal-as-Flemeth/Mythal-of-present were the same Mythal he originally loved/cared for. As he hints to the Inquisitor, the first of his kind are not so easily killed: the Evanuris "murdering" Mythal may have actually been murder in the sense of corrupting or destroying her spirit, or what made Mythal the Protector and All-Mother figure in elven mythology to begin with. If the Evanuris were angry or frustrated with Mythal for thwarting their greed for more power out of concern for the elven people, they may have conspired to "kill" that part of Mythal.
Solas might then be acting out of vengeance for the Mythal-that-was, as well as guilt for the measures he took to banish the Evanuris and free his people. It would also explain why Mythal-as-Flemeth may have given the remainder of her strength, spirit, or power to Fen'harel/Solas to further his plans to restore the elven world, as the Mythal-as-Flemeth may have the same twisted desire for vengeance for what was done to her by the Evanuris, as well as lingering vestiges of responsibility to the people she once protected.
Thoughts?
I have a suspicion that Mythal-as-Flemeth is a corrupted fragment or the corrupted soul of Mythal.
While wandering through the shattered library, you find a few references to Mythal in the age of the elves: particularly one instance where she convinced Falon'din and Elgar'nan to settle a conflict by a battle of champions, rather than drawing the entire world into war. The memory credits Mythal for her wisdom, and it's generally heavily implied by Solas's sentiments at the end and by Mythal's role in elven mythology that she was a benevolent figure most concerned with the well-being of the elvish people.
That Mythal-as-Flemeth is manipulating events and seems more concerned with vengeance and motions beyond the ken of most people seems to lend credence to the notion that she is a corrupted fragment or version of herself. That Solas's motivation for having created the Veil and banished the Evanuris in the first place was because the Evanuris murdered Mythal also reinforces my belief, since Solas would not have been so angered by Mythal's murder if the Mythal-as-Flemeth/Mythal-of-present were the same Mythal he originally loved/cared for. As he hints to the Inquisitor, the first of his kind are not so easily killed: the Evanuris "murdering" Mythal may have actually been murder in the sense of corrupting or destroying her spirit, or what made Mythal the Protector and All-Mother figure in elven mythology to begin with. If the Evanuris were angry or frustrated with Mythal for thwarting their greed for more power out of concern for the elven people, they may have conspired to "kill" that part of Mythal.
Solas might then be acting out of vengeance for the Mythal-that-was, as well as guilt for the measures he took to banish the Evanuris and free his people. It would also explain why Mythal-as-Flemeth may have given the remainder of her strength, spirit, or power to Fen'harel/Solas to further his plans to restore the elven world, as the Mythal-as-Flemeth may have the same twisted desire for vengeance for what was done to her by the Evanuris, as well as lingering vestiges of responsibility to the people she once protected.
Thoughts?
Yes, I believe that Solas once drank from the Well of Sorrows and is now intrinsically bound to serve Mythal, which was probably just fine with him for the most part. However, I also believe that being with the Inquisition for a time begins to change his mind about a number of things and what we see at both the end of of Inquisition (Mythal posessing Solas) and the end of Trespasser (his regret that he has to kill people in order to give the world back to the Elves) is that Mythal's influence over him has begun to wane somewhat, or will at least be a plot point in the future games.
Mythal has already proven once that she would destroy a race to give the earth to the Elves (When she defeated the Titans), and she may be a God of Love and Compassion, but that may be a love and compassion extended only toward the old Elven race.
I think she's using everyone because she speaks of getting vengeance. Solas and the others seem to be pawns, and how Solas described her sounds like she's more than an Elven Goddess. She might not even be one of them and is something even more powerful.
True, but. Well okay lemme just plop down my whole, rough theory:
Tags for length.
I do like the idea of Mythal being behind EVERYTHING though. Even if it feels a bit like one of those Scooby-Doo episodes where they pull of the mask and then have to pull off another one. Tis I! Corypheus! Nay tis I, Solas! Oh but no! Tis actually me! Flemthal! But it does make sense. Wily old god exploiting a idealistic rebel. Mythal working through a proxy to object how the other Evanuris work, their weird goodbye he was sorry he failed she was sorry she was gonna have to take a more direct seat, his insistence that he's never been anyone but himself slots in with his pride (which is a Solas thing not a Mythal thing), destroying the Veil works in both ways for the Vengeful Mother thing, saving her people (which works for Solas since if he created the Veil as a beyond-death **** you from Mythal he probably really, really didn't want that) while also getting her vengeance. Solas also speaks differently in Trespasser. This might just no longer needing to approachable or it might be indicative of him not being wholly Solas anymore.
True, but. Well okay lemme just plop down my whole, rough theory:
Tags for length.
Spoiler
I do like the idea of Mythal being behind EVERYTHING though. Even if it feels a bit like one of those Scooby-Doo episodes where they pull of the mask and then have to pull off another one. Tis I! Corypheus! Nay tis I, Solas! Oh but no! Tis actually me! Flemthal! But it does make sense. Wily old god exploiting a idealistic rebel. Mythal working through a proxy to object how the other Evanuris work, their weird goodbye he was sorry he failed she was sorry she was gonna have to take a more direct seat, his insistence that he's never been anyone but himself slots in with his pride (which is a Solas thing not a Mythal thing), destroying the Veil works in both ways for the Vengeful Mother thing, saving her people (which works for Solas since if he created the Veil as a beyond-death **** you from Mythal he probably really, really didn't want that) while also getting her vengeance. Solas also speaks differently in Trespasser. This might just no longer needing to approachable or it might be indicative of him not being wholly Solas anymore.
Guest_Raynah_*
True, but. Well okay lemme just plop down my whole, rough theory:
Tags for length.
Spoiler
I do like the idea of Mythal being behind EVERYTHING though. Even if it feels a bit like one of those Scooby-Doo episodes where they pull of the mask and then have to pull off another one. Tis I! Corypheus! Nay tis I, Solas! Oh but no! Tis actually me! Flemthal! But it does make sense. Wily old god exploiting a idealistic rebel. Mythal working through a proxy to object how the other Evanuris work, their weird goodbye he was sorry he failed she was sorry she was gonna have to take a more direct seat, his insistence that he's never been anyone but himself slots in with his pride (which is a Solas thing not a Mythal thing), destroying the Veil works in both ways for the Vengeful Mother thing, saving her people (which works for Solas since if he created the Veil as a beyond-death **** you from Mythal he probably really, really didn't want that) while also getting her vengeance. Solas also speaks differently in Trespasser. This might just no longer needing to approachable or it might be indicative of him not being wholly Solas anymore.
I think part of Solas is merged with Mythal, but there is writing in the library that says the Dread Wolf comes to you humble and filled with knowledge. Solas was most likely talking with a lighter tone when he was pretending to be a normal apostate. What we saw at the end of the game was the real Solas. The once immortal Dread Wolf/Fen'Harel who is no longer wearing a mask because he knows we know the truth.
He zones out on Hawke in DA2 and says this:
"One day the magic will come back - all of it. Everyone will be just like they were. The shadows will part and the skies will open wide. When he rises, everyone will see."
I used to think it was his prediction, but he saw a "scary old lady" beside him one night laughing so I wonder if Mythal was speaking through him. I think she might have placed a part of herself in him. She seems to be placing soul pieces around Thedas.
Sandals Prophecy from DAII Act 3, .... could he be referring to Solas? I used to think it was referring to a future protagonist but now...... I mean the skys opening, obvious Rift reference, but the magic coming back? Everyone will be like they were? I like the thought of this
Guest_Raynah_*
Sandals Prophecy from DAII Act 3, .... could he be referring to Solas? I used to think it was referring to a future protagonist but now...... I mean the skys opening, obvious Rift reference, but the magic coming back? Everyone will be like they were? I like the thought of this
Sounds like Solas to me. Meaning we get to see a world without the Veil and will somehow survive.
I do not think Solas/Dread Wolf is bound to Mythal in the same manner as the person who drank from the well, or bound in any manner what so ever. This is mostly based off of the developer notes that were found detailing the epilogue scene. Now of course I do not know if the notes are canon and the story can always change over time, but for the sake of argument, assuming they are canon, I can not see how Solas could be bound to Mythal based on the notes. Two lines in particular I want to focus on.
First is where it says "She knew that Solas would summon her, and that he would need to steal her power to further his plans."
Based on how this is worded, it would be weird to describe Solas as "summoning" her if he was bound to her. We would actually expect it to be the other way around, where whomever was bounded would be getting summoned by the person they are bounded to. In other words, the way its worded would actually support the theory that Mythal is bound to him more than Solas bound to her, though I don't think that is the case either. So I am quite curious what they were going for using the word "summon." Npt only that but note it says "his" plans, not their or her. So it also seems like his plan is not necessarily the same as whatever Mythal was trying to do all these years.
Second is "He was once her oldest friend, but she knows that in his drive to restore the elven people he will kill anyone -- even her"
This would seem odd if he was bound to her, as it shouldn't really be possible then for him to kill her. Though how its worded makes it seem if she didn't willingly give him her power, he would attempt to kill her, and might even possibly succeed. Which would kind of also show how crazy Solas has gotten since he stated he created the veil because Mythal was murdered, now he would murder Mythal himself to undo the veil he created due to someone else murdering Mythal.
Also I want to note what is said in the beginning of the epilogue scene. Mythal says "You shouldn't have given your orb to Corypheus." That would seem odd if he did it because he was bound to Mythal and it was the will of Mythal. She speaks as if what he did would not have been what she would have done/wanted.
And one final thing, the developer notes mention that she would give her power to solas "so long as she can pass the essence of her godhood onto morrigan." So it also seems like Mythal didn't actually "join" with Solas, Solas just took her power, it more seems she joined with Morrigan, of course Morrigan willing. Now what does "essence of her godhood" mean? And how is it different from her "power?" Don''t know.
Personally I think Solas is the baddie, though Mythal may be no better with her "vengeance". I also think there is some credence to the idea Solas may actually be a spirit similar to Cole, and maybe even all the Evanuris are like that. Solas specifically being a spirit of wisdom/demon of pride. In the end it just seems like his pride is pretty much the cause of, well, the end of the world, possibly the end of the world twice, if he succeeds. Since as noted, he would even kill Mythal, that to me sounds like he has a singular focus that he can never stop and it trumps all else, kind of like cole, kind of like a spirit, and kind of like Mythal with her vengeance.
Sandals Prophecy from DAII Act 3, .... could he be referring to Solas? I used to think it was referring to a future protagonist but now...... I mean the skys opening, obvious Rift reference, but the magic coming back? Everyone will be like they were? I like the thought of this
Holy crap, this is exactly about what Solas wants to do or, "undo".
Yep, I'm sure that prophecy is about Solas. I think he will be able to go through with his plans but the result may not be exactly what he intends. His track record speaks for itself. It will come back to bite his tail, wait and see. Something I thought about awhile back. Remember some of those references about elves maybe once living around humans. I bet most humans by now have some elf blood in them........There are probably a lot of other things he hasn't accounted for. That's just one off the top of my head.
I know his demise is probably gonna end up being necessary (even if you go with the "change his mind" option). In that case he will probably sacrifice himself to correct the problem instead. It's just a theory....but hey. Poor Solas. He's becoming the very thing he hates. He made me mad for hiding the truth and because of his plan of genocide. He is bad news for Thedas but I kinda feel sorry for him in a twisted sort of way.
I do not think Solas/Dread Wolf is bound to Mythal in the same manner as the person who drank from the well, or bound in any manner what so ever. This is mostly based off of the developer notes that were found detailing the epilogue scene. Now of course I do not know if the notes are canon and the story can always change over time, but for the sake of argument, assuming they are canon, I can not see how Solas could be bound to Mythal based on the notes. Two lines in particular I want to focus on.
First is where it says "She knew that Solas would summon her, and that he would need to steal her power to further his plans."
Based on how this is worded, it would be weird to describe Solas as "summoning" her if he was bound to her. We would actually expect it to be the other way around, where whomever was bounded would be getting summoned by the person they are bounded to. In other words, the way its worded would actually support the theory that Mythal is bound to him more than Solas bound to her, though I don't think that is the case either. So I am quite curious what they were going for using the word "summon." Npt only that but note it says "his" plans, not their or her. So it also seems like his plan is not necessarily the same as whatever Mythal was trying to do all these years.
Second is "He was once her oldest friend, but she knows that in his drive to restore the elven people he will kill anyone -- even her"
This would seem odd if he was bound to her, as it shouldn't really be possible then for him to kill her. Though how its worded makes it seem if she didn't willingly give him her power, he would attempt to kill her, and might even possibly succeed. Which would kind of also show how crazy Solas has gotten since he stated he created the veil because Mythal was murdered, now he would murder Mythal himself to undo the veil he created due to someone else murdering Mythal.
Also I want to note what is said in the beginning of the epilogue scene. Mythal says "You shouldn't have given your orb to Corypheus." That would seem odd if he did it because he was bound to Mythal and it was the will of Mythal. She speaks as if what he did would not have been what she would have done/wanted.
And one final thing, the developer notes mention that she would give her power to solas "so long as she can pass the essence of her godhood onto morrigan." So it also seems like Mythal didn't actually "join" with Solas, Solas just took her power, it more seems she joined with Morrigan, of course Morrigan willing. Now what does "essence of her godhood" mean? And how is it different from her "power?" Don''t know.
Personally I think Solas is the baddie, though Mythal may be no better with her "vengeance". I also think there is some credence to the idea Solas may actually be a spirit similar to Cole, and maybe even all the Evanuris are like that. Solas specifically being a spirit of wisdom/demon of pride. In the end it just seems like his pride is pretty much the cause of, well, the end of the world, possibly the end of the world twice, if he succeeds. Since as noted, he would even kill Mythal, that to me sounds like he has a singular focus that he can never stop and it trumps all else, kind of like cole, kind of like a spirit, and kind of like Mythal with her vengeance.
Yeah but many things in those developers notes or how they are called don't make much sense if you then look at the scene.
"She knew he would summon her".. She doesn't exactly look 'summoned' to me.. She is just there minding her business with the Eluvian, putting god knows what inside it, and he arrives. And she says she knew he would come, so she knew he would go look for her. (plus were exactly are they? Is that a part of the ruins we see while in Trespasser?)
Second.. Why would Solas want to kill her if they are both mad that the Evanuris killed her...? This makes really no sense.. And also she is somewhat alive even if not exactly as before, so I don't know why he is still so keen on revenge.. but anyway both of them want revenge for her "death".
I dunno..
Also I was watching the video where the Inquisitor and Morrigan meet Flemeth and she says "But what was Mythal? A legend given name and called a god, or something more...?". What could that "something more" be? The first part seems to go with how Solas describes the Evanuris.. but she hints that it might even be different? Unless she is just playing with your mind..
I do not think Solas/Dread Wolf is bound to Mythal in the same manner as the person who drank from the well, or bound in any manner what so ever. This is mostly based off of the developer notes that were found detailing the epilogue scene. Now of course I do not know if the notes are canon and the story can always change over time, but for the sake of argument, assuming they are canon, I can not see how Solas could be bound to Mythal based on the notes. Two lines in particular I want to focus on.
First is where it says "She knew that Solas would summon her, and that he would need to steal her power to further his plans."
Based on how this is worded, it would be weird to describe Solas as "summoning" her if he was bound to her. We would actually expect it to be the other way around, where whomever was bounded would be getting summoned by the person they are bounded to. In other words, the way its worded would actually support the theory that Mythal is bound to him more than Solas bound to her, though I don't think that is the case either. So I am quite curious what they were going for using the word "summon." Npt only that but note it says "his" plans, not their or her. So it also seems like his plan is not necessarily the same as whatever Mythal was trying to do all these years.
Second is "He was once her oldest friend, but she knows that in his drive to restore the elven people he will kill anyone -- even her"
This would seem odd if he was bound to her, as it shouldn't really be possible then for him to kill her. Though how its worded makes it seem if she didn't willingly give him her power, he would attempt to kill her, and might even possibly succeed. Which would kind of also show how crazy Solas has gotten since he stated he created the veil because Mythal was murdered, now he would murder Mythal himself to undo the veil he created due to someone else murdering Mythal.
Also I want to note what is said in the beginning of the epilogue scene. Mythal says "You shouldn't have given your orb to Corypheus." That would seem odd if he did it because he was bound to Mythal and it was the will of Mythal. She speaks as if what he did would not have been what she would have done/wanted.
And one final thing, the developer notes mention that she would give her power to solas "so long as she can pass the essence of her godhood onto morrigan." So it also seems like Mythal didn't actually "join" with Solas, Solas just took her power, it more seems she joined with Morrigan, of course Morrigan willing. Now what does "essence of her godhood" mean? And how is it different from her "power?" Don''t know.
Personally I think Solas is the baddie, though Mythal may be no better with her "vengeance". I also think there is some credence to the idea Solas may actually be a spirit similar to Cole, and maybe even all the Evanuris are like that. Solas specifically being a spirit of wisdom/demon of pride. In the end it just seems like his pride is pretty much the cause of, well, the end of the world, possibly the end of the world twice, if he succeeds. Since as noted, he would even kill Mythal, that to me sounds like he has a singular focus that he can never stop and it trumps all else, kind of like cole, kind of like a spirit, and kind of like Mythal with her vengeance.
I read those notes, and I still read it as being a general indication that Mythal knows what's going to go down all along. I think it's still her will/bidding that drives Solas, but I don't think he's a zombie. He does her bidding, but being that he's a powerful mage in his own right, he still does the job in his own way. I also don't think he's a monster or a genocidal lunatic. I read all of the dialog options for the final scene here (http://i.imgur.com/iZmRPlS.png?1), I could not find any indication that he actively wanted people to die or was going to kill them. Only that he wants "your world" to end. That can be interpreted in several ways. It seems more like genocide's an assumption made by the Inquisitor that he does not bother correcting. I've tried to find proof that tearing down the veil would be akin to genocide, and it seems that no one can agree on what the lore has to say about that, either.
Another reason I think Solas is bound to Mythal is his new armor in Trespasser. If you look at his back, he has a dragon tooth attached to his belt. Isn't Mythal associated with dragons? Why was it at his back instead of around his neck like his wolf jawbone was in Inquisition?
^^^^
Your just looking way wayyyyyyyyyy too deep into this. Solas just respects Mythal greatly and feels terrible for having to "kill" her.
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