151 réponses à ce sujet

[SgtSteel91]

I knew deep down there had to be some constants going forward but it looks like Pro-Cirlce, Pro-Mage, Pro-Templar people all got blue balls one way or another.

[Xilizhra]

I knew deep down there had to be some constants going forward but it looks like Pro-Cirlce, Pro-Mage, Pro-Templar people all got blue balls one way or another.

I'm perfectly fine. Since Vivienne's Circle doesn't have the Chantry's backing, I can totally accept mages joining it who want to be controlled. Now, if they start kidnapping mage children and forcing them into the Circle, despite no longer having the Chantry's support... well, Vivienne might not last much longer. Vivienne can't recreate the Circle's worst aspects, and since the College remains, I can accept this.

[Shienis]

I'm perfectly fine. Since Vivienne's Circle doesn't have the Chantry's backing, I can totally accept mages joining it who want to be controlled. Now, if they start kidnapping mage children and forcing them into the Circle, despite no longer having the Chantry's support... well, Vivienne might not last much longer. Vivienne can't recreate the Circle's worst aspects, and since the College remains, I can accept this.

 

Wait... what's the practical difference between your idea of Vivienne's Circle and your idea of College? From the ending it looked like they are the same thing, with just different name and leader... 

[Xilizhra]

Wait... what's the practical difference between your idea of Vivienne's Circle and your idea of College? From the ending it looked like they are the same thing, with just different name and leader... 

I assume that Vivienne's Circle has more rules in it. But that's sort of the beauty of it; Vivienne's dreams of control can't be achieved without the Chantry's active cooperation.

[Dabrikishaw]

It is disappointing that Bioware just cut off all the branches, but I mainly felt that way because of my own belief they had gotten batter at handling them. Come the next Bioware game I will know how to properly react to the idea of choices mattering.

[TheKomandorShepard]

It was easy to predict they will do that, they pretty much change outcome of any choice that affects Thedas or even gameplay in same outcome.There are two types of choices in dragon age minor and irrelevant and those that will have pretty much the same outcome.

 

As for black and white portrayal mage& templar conflict i called it too this was already obvious in base game that pretty much ignored dangers of magic and eradicated abomnations (as well blood magic outside grey wardens plotline) even when it made no sense ,then pretty much writers pet leliana ending got rainbow ending with freedom solves everything.   

[Gervaise]

This isn't restricted to Vivienne as Divine.   I've just done my first two runs with Trespasser.   In the first I had done CoJ and conscripted the Templars but got Leliana as Divine.   Vivienne had always indicated that she was going to rally the loyalist mages into a new Circle but Leliana was meant to have freed whatever mages were left, considering most of the rebels died at Haven.    I dissolved the Inquisition, not wanting to be the Divine's police force and the Inquisition mages formed the College of Enchanters.

 

With my other run I had done Hushed Whispers with conscripted mages.    Again I got Leliana as Divine and the Inquisition mages formed the Bright Hand.     In Trespasser I kept the reduced Inquisition going as the Divine's peacekeeping force, so they would surely still have had a purpose?    However, they dissolved the Bright Hand and once more we had Vivienne's Circle and the College of Enchanters.  

 

I have yet to do my Divine Cassandra run with allied mages but on the evidence it would seem it will be the same either way.

[AnUnculturedLittlePotato]

It was easy to predict they will do that, they pretty much change outcome of any choice that affects Thedas or even gameplay in same outcome.There are two types of choices in dragon age minor and irrelevant and those that will have pretty much the same outcome.

 

As for black and white portrayal mage& templar conflict i called it too this was already obvious in base game that pretty much ignored dangers of magic and eradicated abomnations (as well blood magic outside grey wardens plotline) even when it made no sense ,then pretty much writers pet leliana ending got rainbow ending with freedom solves everything.   

Black and white portrayals of what was once morally grey? What a quaint concept!
Is it sad that the lili ending made me laugh? It's so fanservicy I thought I was playing a JRPG.

[Xilizhra]

Black and white portrayals of what was once morally grey? What a quaint concept!
Is it sad that the lili ending made me laugh? It's so fanservicy I thought I was playing a JRPG.

Some of us never thought the mage/templar conflict was gray.

 

Also, what was too fanservicey?

[Boost32]

Some of us never thought the mage/templar conflict was gray.
 
Also, what was too fanservicey?

Yeah, the mages were always black =P

[Brass_Buckles]

While I'm aware that the Circle and the College exist no matter what you do (and that's lame because I want to do away with the Circle and just have the College), I wonder if some of the issues brought up here are due to the same sort of glitch that led Gaspard to rule alone if you had Celene + Briala on the throne.  Because as you mentioned, why would a heavily pro-templar Inquisitor have Vivienne let the College exist as a boon to the Inquisition?  Solely to satisfy any mages who joined?  But what if you didn't allow them to join?

 

I'm a more pro-mage player myself, but the lack of choice is grating.  I thought that was one of the major reasons for the Keep's existence.  Maybe the Keep didn't work as planned?

[AnUnculturedLittlePotato]

Some of us never thought the mage/templar conflict was gray.

 

Also, what was too fanservicey?

mage/templar not grey? How quaint!
It was fanservicy that lol free everyone actually worked fine with no problems at all and no one went rogue or evil ever again.

[Jaison1986]

mage/templar not grey? How quaint!
It was fanservicy that lol free everyone actually worked fine with no problems at all and no one went rogue or evil ever again.

 

Huh, last I remember, when one group haves utter control over the other, the idea of grey morality is pretty hard to maintain. Not too different from Orlais vs Ferelden or Andraste vs Tevinter.

 

What confirmation do we have that everything is perfect? More like, we have incidents here and there like we did before, but on a large scale, they are managable.

[AnUnculturedLittlePotato]

Huh, last I remember, when one group haves utter control over the other, the idea of grey morality is pretty hard to maintain. Not too different from Orlais vs Ferelden or Andraste vs Tevinter.

 

What confirmation do we have that everything is perfect? More like, we have incidents here and there like we did before, but on a large scale, they are managable.

"Templars" have total control over mages? That's a funny way of spelling "chantry".
As far as we know the templar order is no more. How they DEAL with any rampaging blood mage/abom is beyond me. It's why I wish bioware could get it's own faction war straight. To me it seems like it's always been mage/templar on one side and the chantry on the other.
It's also why I just can't side with the mages ever. You can't just get rid of the templars without replacing them. Thinking no mage is ever gonna be a blood mage/abom is frankly asinine. As far as we are aware you don't even have to make a deal with a demon they can take a mage anyway.

[Al Foley]

How exactly is this ending Pro-mage?  It seems that a splinter, no matter what, forming in the mage ranks over what to do whether or not the should have power/ freedom is not exactly paints a bright sun shiney image on human nature.  But it is typical.  

[Shienis]

Black and white portrayals of what was once morally grey? What a quaint concept!
Is it sad that the lili ending made me laugh? It's so fanservicy I thought I was playing a JRPG.

 

Idealism and superpowers won over reason and responsibility! Let's journey together to DA4 rainbow-and-sunshine-magical-wonderland!

 

How exactly is this ending Pro-mage?  It seems that a splinter, no matter what, forming in the mage ranks over what to do whether or not the should have power/ freedom is not exactly paints a bright sun shiney image on human nature.  But it is typical.  

 

Maybe because any choices about templars are completely ignored in the Trespasser ending, unless you have some crazy Silver Shiled or what and Cullen creates the sanatorium for retiring templars? I had romanced Cullen, Cass Divine and alliance with templars and pooof, they simply didn't exist in that end.

[Xilizhra]

Idealism and superpowers won over reason and responsibility! Let's journey together to DA4 rainbow-and-sunshine-magical-wonderland!

If it was all idealism and superpowers, Tevinter would be a demon-infested wasteland.

 

 

Maybe because any choices about templars are completely ignored in the Trespasser ending, unless you have some crazy Silver Shiled or what and Cullen creates the sanatorium for retiring templars? I had romanced Cullen, Cass Divine and alliance with templars and pooof, they simply didn't exist in that end.

The templars have no reason to exist without the Circle. Since you have a Circle, the templars will be there. I'm not sure why that would need clarification.

[Drasanil]

The templars have no reason to exist without the Circle. 

 

So you'd rather have freelance mage-hunting vigilantes stringing people up when ever the mob works up a particular mood? Because I'm sure that'll work out just great.

[Xilizhra]

So you'd rather have freelance mage-hunting vigilantes stringing people up when ever the mob works up a particular mood? Because I'm sure that'll work out just great.

You think the College of Enchanters should hire its own soldiers to patrol population centers to look for mages and beat back any necessary mobs? It could well be a necessary role, but they wouldn't be templars.

[Drasanil]

You think the College of Enchanters should hire its own soldiers to patrol population centers to look for mages and beat back any necessary mobs? It could well be a necessary role, but they wouldn't be templars.

 

No way would any sane country let the college of enchanters have a private army. I'm pretty sure its going to end up being the other way around, with cities/countries hiring former templars or creating templar-like groups to keep an eye on the newly freed mages. And if they don't do a good enough job, it'll probably end with vigilantes, lynch mobs and all sorts of unpleasantness. 

[Xilizhra]

No way would any sane country let the college of enchanters have a private army. I'm pretty sure its going to end up being the other way around, with cities/countries hiring former templars or creating templar-like groups to keep an eye on the newly freed mages. And if they don't do a good enough job, it'll probably end with vigilantes, lynch mobs and all sorts of unpleasantness. 

Why would that be a problem? It isn't as though swords are going to be the thing people are afraid of when it comes to mages.

[AnUnculturedLittlePotato]

You think the College of Enchanters should hire its own soldiers to patrol population centers to look for mages and beat back any necessary mobs? It could well be a necessary role, but they wouldn't be templars.

Soldiers are super good at killing blood mages and aboms, what with their super well known magic suppressing powers and ability to resist mind control.

[Drasanil]

Why would that be a problem? It isn't as though swords are going to be the thing people are afraid of when it comes to mages.

 

Because it compounds their power. A mage is scary enough to normal people, a bunch of mages with a private army would be in a position to launch coups and topple rulers. Do you honestly think any king worth their crown would allow it?

 

Aside for that, I doubt most countries care for the idea of private armies operating in their borders and flaunting their authority, just ask the Exalted Council from Trespasser

[Xilizhra]

Because it compounds their power. A mage is scary enough to normal people, a bunch of mages with a private army would be in a position to launch coups and topple rulers. Do you honestly think any king worth their crown would allow it?

 

Aside for that, I doubt most countries care for the idea of private armies operating in their borders and flaunting their authority, just ask the Exalted Council from Trespasser

Depends on whether they want to allot a big chunk of their budget to patrol for mages themselves.

[Drasanil]

Depends on whether they want to allot a big chunk of their budget to patrol for mages themselves.

 

They'll probably end up forming new nationalized circles under state authority, given that it makes the whole logistics thing easier to handle and keeps potentially dangerous mages confined in one easy to control place.