I don't know. It seems to me as though you're claiming that there's lore somewhere that disproves the concept of mage freedom working, but you don't seem to have shown it.
Is that really so surprising? Apparently accepting that they might have been wrong about mage freedom is apparently too difficult. To them, mage freedom has to backfire despite evidence to the contrary. Really, this thread is just them whining that they couldn't oppress mages.
I don't know. It seems to me as though you're claiming that there's lore somewhere that disproves the concept of mage freedom working, but you don't seem to have shown it.
Why would mages tear apart a country just because? Also, other mages can fight renegade mages perfectly well with various antimagic spells.
I don't need to disprove it anymore than I need to disprove the sun being lethal because it shoots fried bacon at our eyeballs or schleets. It's 1000% impossible for it to just "work".
everybody's terrified of magic and mages, they'll kill a kid for something they didn't do, and mages declare their freedom after blowing up a chantry and killing a divine.
Sure THEY didn't. But mages did. And for the unwashed midevial masses that's close enough.
Why does anyone tear apart a country just because?
Is that really so surprising? Apparently accepting that they might have been wrong about mage freedom is apparently too difficult. To them, mage freedom has to backfire despite evidence to the contrary. Really, this thread is just them whining that they couldn't oppress mages.
No. No one here want's to "oppress" mages. We want what this conflict COULD have been.
We want grey morality, we want the dangers of magic to be well known. We want an ending that isn't literal fanservice and is 100% impossible.
We want choices to not be retconned. We want this to not be written by an idealistic 5 year old.
There's no point in even trying to defy Bioware canon at this point. It'll never actually do anything.
Like banging shiani.
Modifié par AnUnculturedLittlePotato, 16 septembre 2015 - 02:02 .
Is that really so surprising? Apparently accepting that they might have been wrong about mage freedom is apparently too difficult. To them, mage freedom has to backfire despite evidence to the contrary. Really, this thread is just them whining that they couldn't oppress mages.
There is no evidence to contrary pretty much we saw results of crap that mages caused many times in series ang giving them more occasions to cause trouble won't solve this problem by any mean in fact it will make problem much worse.Pretty much it is just that dai ignored threat that mages pose very same they showed us many times in previous product ,what just means bad and inconsistent (also unrealistic) writing.
I don't need to disprove it anymore than I need to disprove the sun being lethal because it shoots fried bacon at our eyeballs or schleets. It's 1000% impossible for it to just "work".
everybody's terrified of magic and mages, they'll kill a kid for something they didn't do, and mages declare their freedom after blowing up a chantry and killing a divine.
Sure THEY didn't. But mages did. And for the unwashed midevial masses that's close enough.
Why does anyone tear apart a country just because?
So you're basically saying that the plot doesn't work because of your interpretation of common sense? I'm not sure how that's supposed to be convincing.
The College of Enchanters either exists due to the Inquisition's support, or is semi-sanctioned by the Divine.
The templars are mentioned if you side with Vivienne where they form the Silver Shield, an independent order created because they hate mages and refuse to serve a mage.
Also, are you really surprised? Gaider seemed to be the only one pushing to make the templars not be as douchey as they normally were (which is funny considering Asunder was blatantly pro-mage), so with him gone, mages are the only faction people care about. Sad that the devs are pro-mage?
Its dissapointing for sure.
But then I've come to expect nothing less from Bioware.
So you're basically saying that the plot doesn't work because of your interpretation of common sense? I'm not sure how that's supposed to be convincing.
The College of Enchanters either exists due to the Inquisition's support, or is semi-sanctioned by the Divine.
It's not common sense it's in game evidence.
Right, because any choice that isn't a Bioware Approved Choicetm isn't allowed. You can't have a world state where it's impossible to have the college of enchanters so dispite having a world state where it's impossible to have the college of enchanters here's the college of enchanters.
It's not common sense it's in game evidence.
Right, because any choice that isn't a Bioware Approved Choicetm isn't allowed. You can't have a world state where it's impossible to have the college of enchanters so dispite having a world state where it's impossible to have the college of enchanters here's the college of enchanters.
Well, what's done is done. Perhaps it's best to just accept that the pro templars are the minority now.
It's not common sense it's in game evidence.
Right, because any choice that isn't a Bioware Approved Choicetm isn't allowed. You can't have a world state where it's impossible to have the college of enchanters so dispite having a world state where it's impossible to have the college of enchanters here's the college of enchanters.
Well, if you could bring up sources, that might be useful for your argument.
Well, what's done is done. Perhaps it's best to just accept that the pro templars are the minority now.
They were always the minority.
http://www.strawpoll.me/3269053/r
They only became more vocal because Inquisition actually made siding with the templars an attractive option. They were always a vocal minority, guess they are just mad that reality is now setting in.
Well, if you could bring up sources, that might be useful for your argument.
Specifically vivenne and Wynne's dialogue comes to mind of mage children being assailed and blamed for things they did and did not do.
Also see The Assault on Redclife for what an untrained and hidden mage child can do.
I'd be fine with siding with the mages if they actually had a plan for blood mages/evil mages. I'd be fine if they just wanted more oversight from them and less from the templars without tearing down a salvageable institution. I've yet to see anything like "evil mages are totally still gonna be a thing here's our solution to what the templars were supposed to do." I've yet to see that which leads me to believe were supposed to accept it doesn't. That mages can't be possessed without their consent or will (see the act 1 quest with the templars being possessed). Were supposed to accept no one will ever be evil again.
Which is terrible writing.
Edit for clarification as I typed something that didn't mean what I meant it to mean.
They were always the minority.
http://www.strawpoll.me/3269053/r
They only became more vocal because Inquisition actually made siding with the templars an attractive option. They were always a vocal minority, guess they are just mad that reality is now setting in.
552 people.
Your gonna judge everything on 552 people? I can find 552 people that believe obama is a lizard that number is inconsequential.
Modifié par AnUnculturedLittlePotato, 16 septembre 2015 - 02:44 .
Specifically vivenne and Wynne's dialogue comes to mind of mage children being assailed and blamed for things they did and did not do.
Also see The Assault on Redclife for what an untrained and hidden mage child can do.
I'd be fine with siding with the mages if they actually had a plan for blood mages/evil mages. I'd be fine if they just wanted more oversight from them and less from the templars without tearing down a salvageable institution. I've yet to see anything like "evil mages are totally still gonna be a thing here's our solution to what the templars were supposed to do." I've yet to see that which leads me to believe were supposed to accept it doesn't. That mages can't be possessed without their consent or will (see the act 1 quest with the templars being possessed). Were supposed to accept no one will ever be evil again.
Which is terrible writing.
Edit for clarification as I typed something that didn't mean what I meant it to mean.
Alas, Inquisition isn't that kind of game, because for some reason, they decided to cram the entire war into the first, short, act. I'd have enjoyed more details about how the society would have worked as well; I'd have loved them, in fact. But just because the details weren't explained doesn't mean they don't exist.
Idealism and superpowers won over reason and responsibility! Let's journey together to DA4 rainbow-and-sunshine-magical-wonderland!
Maybe because any choices about templars are completely ignored in the Trespasser ending, unless you have some crazy Silver Shiled or what and Cullen creates the sanatorium for retiring templars? I had romanced Cullen, Cass Divine and alliance with templars and pooof, they simply didn't exist in that end.
...ok this is rather new. So because the Grey Wardens also weren't mentioned in the endings that must mean they don't exist either right? That magically they are just wiped out of DA lore like Sirius Black's place on the Black's family tree? Unlikely. No the only reason why the 'Bright Hand/ Mages' were mentioned is they were the only ones that were effected by the events in Tresspassers. The Templars, aside from the few examples already mentioned, we can safely assume that their ending was the one we got in the main game. The reasons why the 'Bright Hand' disbanded should be obvious. There is no longer a 'bright hand' to be a 'bright hand' of. And the Inquisition is much smaller and more of a peacekeeping role, thus no real need for combat mages. This ending makes perfect sense and sets up the world to be much grayer in the futrure. No longer will we have mage versus Templar, but mage versus mage.
Specifically vivenne and Wynne's dialogue comes to mind of mage children being assailed and blamed for things they did and did not do.
Also see The Assault on Redclife for what an untrained and hidden mage child can do.
I'd be fine with siding with the mages if they actually had a plan for blood mages/evil mages. I'd be fine if they just wanted more oversight from them and less from the templars without tearing down a salvageable institution. I've yet to see anything like "evil mages are totally still gonna be a thing here's our solution to what the templars were supposed to do." I've yet to see that which leads me to believe were supposed to accept it doesn't. That mages can't be possessed without their consent or will (see the act 1 quest with the templars being possessed). Were supposed to accept no one will ever be evil again.
Which is terrible writing.
Edit for clarification as I typed something that didn't mean what I meant it to mean.
552 people.
Your gonna judge everything on 552 people? I can find 552 people that believe obama is a lizard that number is inconsequential.
In the game I played I got the feeling that the mages were entirely browbeaten by their experiences in the war. The majority of them who joined up with Fiona. It is mentioned that they were glad to be taken in by the Inquisition, glad to be conscripted, glad to have some authority and sense restored and oversight. Granted Fiona had to start getting uppity again but she is just one person.
Specifically vivenne and Wynne's dialogue comes to mind of mage children being assailed and blamed for things they did and did not do.
Also see The Assault on Redclife for what an untrained and hidden mage child can do.
I'd be fine with siding with the mages if they actually had a plan for blood mages/evil mages. I'd be fine if they just wanted more oversight from them and less from the templars without tearing down a salvageable institution. I've yet to see anything like "evil mages are totally still gonna be a thing here's our solution to what the templars were supposed to do." I've yet to see that which leads me to believe were supposed to accept it doesn't. That mages can't be possessed without their consent or will (see the act 1 quest with the templars being possessed). Were supposed to accept no one will ever be evil again.
Which is terrible writing.
Edit for clarification as I typed something that didn't mean what I meant it to mean.
552 people.
Your gonna judge everything on 552 people? I can find 552 people that believe obama is a lizard that number is inconsequential.
http://www.escapistm...ernia-or-Samson
http://www.gamefaqs....sition/70643659
This just proves my point that templar supporters are the clear minority even in this game where siding with the templars isn't as morally reprehensible as before. Is it any wonder Bioware focuses more on the mages?
Had anyone ever thought about creating an order of knight enchanters? They could be used to replace templars and they would have the duty to hunt down blood mages and finding mage children to bring to the college for necessary study. After all, knight enchanters are not only one of the strongest kinds of mages there is, they could use dispell magic like an templar can use anti magic talents. And being mages themselves would certanly make them more resonable and fair minded when it comes dealing with their own kind.
Had anyone ever thought about creating an order of knight enchanters? They could be used to replace templars and they would have the duty to hunt down blood mages and finding mage children to bring to the college for necessary study. After all, knight enchanters are not only one of the strongest kinds of mages there is, they could use dispell magic like an templar can use anti magic talents. And being mages themselves would certanly make them more resonable and fair minded when it comes dealing with their own kind.
As well you could send mushrooms to fight mario ,though im sure abomnations would appreciate extra firepower. 
Besides good luck with mages overseeing mages it worked well with tevinter or to not search far orsino. 
Had anyone ever thought about creating an order of knight enchanters? They could be used to replace templars and they would have the duty to hunt down blood mages and finding mage children to bring to the college for necessary study. After all, knight enchanters are not only one of the strongest kinds of mages there is, they could use dispell magic like an templar can use anti magic talents. And being mages themselves would certanly make them more resonable and fair minded when it comes dealing with their own kind.
Me! Me! *jumps up and down and waves*
Had anyone ever thought about creating an order of knight enchanters? They could be used to replace templars and they would have the duty to hunt down blood mages and finding mage children to bring to the college for necessary study. After all, knight enchanters are not only one of the strongest kinds of mages there is, they could use dispell magic like an templar can use anti magic talents. And being mages themselves would certanly make them more resonable and fair minded when it comes dealing with their own kind.
Yeah the biggest problem in the state of affairs in Thedas pre-Inquisition was that the mages did not have a role in polcing themselves. The Templars are all fine and dandy as an organization but let the mages join.
http://www.escapistm...ernia-or-Samson
http://www.gamefaqs....sition/70643659
This just proves my point that templar supporters are the clear minority even in this game where siding with the templars isn't as morally reprehensible as before. Is it any wonder Bioware focuses more on the mages?
The point is if you cannot write the two sides properly then do not bother pretending and making it issue when it is not. If bio started the mage templar debate i expect writing to support both sides, but sadly it doesnt.
So if you are already biased its better they drop the pretense and just go the mage route completely. Half assing it at this point is serving no one.
Yeah the biggest problem in the state of affairs in Thedas pre-Inquisition was that the mages did not have a role in polcing themselves. The Templars are all fine and dandy as an organization but let the mages join.
You do realize anti magic abilities from lyrium only come to non mages. For a normal person lyrium=anti magic, for a mage lyrium=more magic. There is a reason why mages do not have anti magic abilities.
Forgot about dispel
The point is if you cannot write the two sides properly then do not bother pretending and making it issue when it is not. If bio started the mage templar debate i expect writing to support both sides, but sadly it doesnt.
So if you are already biased its better they drop the pretense and just go the mage route completely. Half assing it at this point is serving no one.
It does from where I sit. Granted this is the most uneven issue in the entire franchise the Templars do come off as a bit brutish from time to time but they have moral justifications and for every KCM that is a KCG or Evangeline running around.
You do realize anti magic abilities from lyrium only come to non mages. For a normal person lyrium=anti magic, for a mage lyrium=more magic. There is a reason why mages do not have anti magic abilities.
This contradicts both gameplay and lore.
You do realize anti magic abilities from lyrium only come to non mages. For a normal person lyrium=anti magic, for a mage lyrium=more magic. There is a reason why mages do not have anti magic abilities.
Mages don't need lyrium for antimagic spells, they just have them.
The spells have changed from game to game, so now i only can take what i see in game and i see no anti magic spells. Do not count origins as the series has pretty much changed its tone, direction, writing from it. We have gone from a dark fantasy pretender to high/steampunk fanatasy.
So no mana clash spells anymore im afraid. Only seekers have mana clash now, templars ability is now more about denying magic IE reinforcing reality. If mana clash actually existed in the new lore a lot of vint mages would just use that to take out their rivals and not turn to blood magic.
Mana clash is gone as a spell and now is only the domain of seekers. This has been established by the new lore. Again for benefit ignore origins.
Forgot about dispel
Besides part of the idea of having mages *in* the Templar Order is to decrease the reliance of Lyrium on non mage Templars.
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