42 réponses à ce sujet

[Qun00]

Just like the Chantry and the dwarves. Funny how that works.

There certainly are a few remaining mysteries like the Maker or the Titans, but generally speaking the humans and dwarves know their own history far better than the Dalish do.

What have they even got right? Uhh... the names of the elven gods, I guess? And the fall of the Dales, but that's just common knowledge.

And, I would like to point out, one of the only people we have seen to consistently use blood magic over a period of years without going completely coo-coo for cocoa puffs.

Nah, she just made a deal with a demon as any reasonable person would.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

There certainly are a few remaining mysteries like the Maker or the Titans, but generally speaking the humans and dwarves know their own history far better than the Dalish do.

What have they even got right? Uhh... the names of the elven gods, I guess? And the fall of the Dales, but that's just common knowledge.


Nah, she just made a deal with a demon as any reasonable person would.

 

Pl-ease.

 

The Chantry wiped away so much history after the Exalted March. I wouldn't be surprised if Andraste is secretly Dumat or if Shartan was secretly the true lover of Andraste or if the Blight is actually made by star child so humans and elves don't kill each other! In Dragon Age, everything in the past is destined to be proven wrong.

 

The dwarves wipe away so much thanks to their Shaperates and their hatred of the casteless.

[LobselVith8]

They're not examples. Sten isn't even in this game. And Gaspard features no more than some of the other Dalish elves we do meet - so you'd be wrong by your own standard.

They are examples. Sten and Gaspard espoused positive views about their respective groups - the Qunari and Orlais; from their own perspective, of course. Gaspard featured in TME. Furthermore, you didn't stipulate that it pertained only to Inquisition; you made a general comment.

Honestly, I see little point in derailing the thread to argue semantics.

That aside, I'm having a hard time following your point. It amount to wanting Merrril I'm the game.

The point was about someone providing a positive perspective of the Dalish, which is completely lacking in Inquisition with the sole exception of the main elven character, and that's up to player choice - I don't see what's so difficult to follow.

[Broganisity]

Could be the ultimate quest in the DA series : find the legendary mabari, the nemesis of the Dread Wolf, in order to save the world !

M-Mabari confirmed for companion in DA4?

[Iakus]

And, I would like to point out, one of the only people we have seen to consistently use blood magic over a period of years without going completely coo-coo for cocoa puffs.

Well, she is still kinda coo-coo for cocoa puffs.  Just more in a Cloudcuckoolander way than in a "Mwahahahahaha!" sort. 

[LobselVith8]

Nah, she just made a deal with a demon as any reasonable person would.

Merrill didn't make a deal with Audacity; that's the reason the spirit remained trapped for decades inside a totem, until Marethari intentionally released the spirit.

[fhs33721]

LIES!!

 

The story is 100% legit. Right afterwards Solas decided: "Damm it this Shapeshifting specialization sucks a*s. I'm going to put my skill points into Frost spells from now on."

[Statare]

I would like to point out that at this point, the only information we have about pre-Fall Elvhenan comes mostly, if not 100% from Solas and Abelas has like two vague lines. I'm not entirely sure I'd be all, "The Dalish are stupid, lol, got everything wrong, lol," because as of Tresspasser some parts of their history, like the Dread Wold defeating their Gods, sealing them away, and taking their Empire/Immortality from them are accurate. Also, outside the elitist perspective of the Ancient Master Race Hermit Elves, the Tevinter Imperium did destroy the Elven Empire, as any information left was utterly whiped out via a massive Blood Ritual sinking the remains of what might have been Arlathan or some other important Elvhen city.

 

Also, Elvenhan was allegedly founded about 8000 years ago years ago, and 4000 ish years ago the Elven Empire fell. In our world, 3000 years ago was the hight of the Egyptian Empire, and really we know little about that, only fragments, and there was no world shattering magical genocide that happened to the Egyptian Empire.

 

Credit where credit is due. The Dalish know a lot for a society of nomads who wander the forest, hiding from humans, and searching for magical artifacts that were part of a system of physics (Fade/Thedas side by side) that no longer exist. It'd be like trying to put together a 4 dimensional puzzle in our 3 dimension world. Impossible.

[LOLandStuff]

Abelas says the elves destroyed themselves along with Arlathan. Tevinter just showed up and scavenged the place clean.

[Qun00]

Pl-ease.

The Chantry wiped away so much history after the Exalted March. I wouldn't be surprised if Andraste is secretly Dumat or if Shartan was secretly the true lover of Andraste or if the Blight is actually made by star child so humans and elves don't kill each other! In Dragon Age, everything in the past is destined to be proven wrong.

The dwarves wipe away so much thanks to their Shaperates and their hatred of the casteless.

Hey, don't look at me. It is how the story decided it would be.

The Dalish are the only race whose ignorance is an actual plot point. You don't hear any characters say the dwarves and humans need to hunt for scraps.

Try to force this comparison as you will, but it isn't even remotely close. Aside from the lore's big mysteries, the other races still have most of their history intact.

One could count on the fingers of one hand the number of facts the Dalish got right. Most of their knowledge of elven culture is about the same as the rest of the world knows, with the exception of their language and what the elven gods used to be called.

I don't even know why there are fans feeling offended by this, really. The series has already provided the Dalish a good reason to be in the dark like this.

But Maker forbid something people like could have relevant flaws.

[TeffexPope]

Is that Hawke an elf?

 

...

 

Spoiler

Seriously...

[Mr.House]

I would like to point out that at this point, the only information we have about pre-Fall Elvhenan comes mostly, if not 100% from Solas and Abelas has like two vague lines. I'm not entirely sure I'd be all, "The Dalish are stupid, lol, got everything wrong, lol," because as of Tresspasser some parts of their history, like the Dread Wold defeating their Gods, sealing them away, and taking their Empire/Immortality from them are accurate. Also, outside the elitist perspective of the Ancient Master Race Hermit Elves, the Tevinter Imperium did destroy the Elven Empire, as any information left was utterly whiped out via a massive Blood Ritual sinking the remains of what might have been Arlathan or some other important Elvhen city.

 

Also, Elvenhan was allegedly founded about 8000 years ago years ago, and 4000 ish years ago the Elven Empire fell. In our world, 3000 years ago was the hight of the Egyptian Empire, and really we know little about that, only fragments, and there was no world shattering magical genocide that happened to the Egyptian Empire.

 

Credit where credit is due. The Dalish know a lot for a society of nomads who wander the forest, hiding from humans, and searching for magical artifacts that were part of a system of physics (Fade/Thedas side by side) that no longer exist. It'd be like trying to put together a 4 dimensional puzzle in our 3 dimension world. Impossible.

Um the dalish believe coming in contact with humans removed their immortality, it was the humans that destroyed their empire(which was false) and Dread Wolf was not seen as a god of rebellion at all by the dalish. They don't even bloody know what their Vassaslin means. They got everything either wrong or misunderstood it.

[Vit246]

Um the dalish believe coming in contact with humans removed their immortality, it was the humans that destroyed their empire(which was false) and Dread Wolf was not seen as a god of rebellion at all by the dalish. They don't even bloody know what their Vassaslin means. They got everything either wrong or misunderstood it.

 

Sigh. They did not get "everything wrong"

The humans still played their part in destroying their empire by enslaving them for centuries and taking away any chance for the elves to rebuild. And they know what the vallaslin means. Its a tattoo applied on their face and each one honors a particular god. Thats about 90 percent of it right. They were just missing one more detail that used to be relevant back during an ancient context that no longer exists. Details tend to get lost when destructive crap keeps happening to their repositories of knowledge.

[LOLandStuff]

The tattoos didn't honor their gods, it marked them as their properties, what with them being slaves and all.

 

I'm sure they were stealing each others slaves until they got tired of it and just slapped their faces with paint. Marked like cattle.

[AshenEndymion]

The tattoos didn't honor their gods, it marked them as their properties, what with them being slaves and all.

 

I'm sure they were stealing each others slaves until they got tired of it and just slapped their faces with paint. Marked like cattle.

 

If one is a willing slave, like Abelas(or the rest of Mythal's elves), it's likely an honor to have the Vassaslin...

[Qun00]

Sigh. They did not get "everything wrong"
The humans still played their part in destroying their empire by enslaving them for centuries and taking away any chance for the elves to rebuild. And they know what the vallaslin means. Its a tattoo applied on their face and each one honors a particular god. Thats about 90 percent of it right. They were just missing one more detail that used to be relevant back during an ancient context that no longer exists. Details tend to get lost when destructive crap keeps happening to their repositories of knowledge.

The fall or Arlathan and eslavement by Tevinter are clearly distinct events.

You can't say "The Dalish are still right because what Tevinter did was bad for the elves too". It's as if accusing someone of blowing up your house or stealing your shoes were the same thing.

They have no idea that their own kind started all this misery.

[Serza]

Huh. Did we turn this into a PROPER Elf-bash now?

[Gervaise]

It was just an amusing tale.    The Dalish probably didn't really believe it or they would have kept dogs around to guard them.   In fact in the Dales, the Emerald Knights were accompanied by wolves.

 

The Dalish in fact remembered much of their history correctly.   They teach that Fen'Harel tricked the gods and shut them away from the People: Correct.   They teach that they were once did not age: correct.   They teach that at one time all elves were magical: Correct - it's just that some were way more powerful than others.   It is true they blame humans for the loss of their immortality but Abelas does say that humans basically fell on the dying empire like carrion birds and we know they then enslaved the survivors, so you can hardly blame their descendants from getting that a bit muddled.  In fact if what Solas says is true and initially the survivors seemed so dazed they were almost like tranquil, it may be they did suffer a degree of amnesia.    The voices in the library seemed focussed on one thing only: Fen'Harel was responsible for their plight and if they escaped they would take their revenge on him.     I really hope that at least some of the Dalish will focus their former hatred for humans on the Dread Wolf when they discover just to what extent he was responsible for everything that subsequently befell their people.     I'm concerned that the writers will just manipulate them into slavishly joining him, not realising that his plans will destroy them too.